Re: Re: Western Rationality

2002-10-13 Thread Carl Remick
From: Sabri Oncu [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... (western) rationality is that human behaviour, possibly emerged in Europe some centuries ago, which attemps to impose a complete order on an infinite dimensional set, that is, a continuum, that I call life. Life as a continuum can at best be a partially

Re: Re: What is science

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Charles Jannuzi wrote: The science report is that sad sick pretense of an exercise in c/v building that pretends we can. The basis both of SCIENCE (deified -- as at Sceptical Inquiere) and of SCIENCE (demonized -- as with Carl too many others) -- is the Platonic argument that a

Query: planned obsolescence

2002-10-13 Thread topp8564
Hi all, Could anyone help me out with early references to planned obsolescence, specially in the auto industry? When did the debate on this erupt? Did it ever? What is some good reading? What prompted me to think about this was this passage from noted New Guinean anthropologist Peter

Re: Re: Re: What is science

2002-10-13 Thread Carl Remick
From: Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Both (Carl Sceptical Inquirer) are pitching religous woo-woo and can't tell us much about the actual world. Carrol Woo-woo it may be, but it is of a decidedly irreligious nature. Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, what? The proper study of

campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Devine, James
Title: campus anti-war movements Seeds of Protest Growing on College Campuses By TAMAR LEWIN New York TIMES/Oct. 12, 2002 BOSTON, Oct. 10 - Mike McLinn never showed the faintest interest in political protest, but he has plunged headfirst into the effort to prevent an American attack against

Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Devine, James wrote: Seeds of Protest Growing on College Campuses By TAMAR LEWIN New York TIMES/Oct. 12, 2002 [CLIP] We knew that military action was likely soon, and wanted to give students who supported it some way to show that to the rest of the students. Military action has

Iraq's nukes?

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v24/n20/domb01_.html [full] So here we go again. In October 1991, following the Gulf War, early inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) under Security Council Resolution 687 revealed that Iraq had a clandestine uranium enrichment programme based on the

Re: Re: RE: Western Rationality

2002-10-13 Thread joanna bujes
At 03:47 AM 10/12/2002 +, you wrote: The sheer complexity of modern technologies requires that RD be a team effort; no one individual acting alone can supply the expertise needed to advance the state of the art. If you have a team effort, you need administrators to coordinate efforts,

Re: Query: planned obsolescence

2002-10-13 Thread Michael Perelman
In one famous study, published in the conservative ”Journal of Political Economy•, three prominent economists, Franklin Fisher, Zvi Griliches, and Carl Kaysen, estimated that more than 25 percent of the selling price of a car came from the cost of model changes that were unrelated to performance

Re: what is science?

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
In part Doyle wrote: We're talking about Neuro-networks not intuition. Whatever intuition is supposed to be in popular imagination it is pointless to go on about intuition when we have better ways to talk about what is going in someone's mind. Problem is, we still have no adequate logic

Re: Western Rationality

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
--- joanna bujes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:47 AM 10/12/2002 +, you wrote: The sheer complexity of modern technologies requires that RD be a team effort; no one individual acting alone can supply the expertise needed to advance the state of the art. If you have a team effort,

RE: Query: planned obsolescence

2002-10-13 Thread Bill Rosenberg
Vance Packard wrote about such things for the general reader, beginning in the 1950's. One, The Waste Makers, was specifically about planned obsolescence I think. See also http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/sbeder/columns/engcol8.html by Sharon Beder, from the perspective of ethical engineering, for

biological wmd

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
Meat producer recalls 27.4 million pounds of deli products Sunday, October 13, 2002 Posted: 5:38 PM EDT (2138 GMT) PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) -- Wampler Foods recalled all cooked deli products made since May at a suburban plant and halted production because the meat is possibly

RE: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Max B. Sawicky
FWIW I happen to agree that the draft was not the central factor. Pure self-interest would not necessarily dictate spending time in anti-war activism, since the relationship between one's individual contribution and one's chances of getting drafted were small. As a personal observation, there

Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
--- Max B. Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW I happen to agree that the draft was not the central factor. Pure self-interest would not necessarily dictate spending time in anti-war activism, since the relationship between one's individual contribution and one's chances of getting

RE: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: campus anti-war movements [CLIP] We knew that military action was likely soon, and wanted to give students who supported it some way to show that to the rest of the students. Military action has become the only way to solve this problem, said Mr. Fairbanks, a sophomore at

Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Charles Jannuzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] For those of us who came of age in the mid to late 70s, it's often hard to reconcile all those news and movie images of hippies taking on the powers that be and all those ex-hippies who became the powers that be. It's

Re: RE: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Max B. Sawicky wrote: If there is an invasion that bogs down and/or entails a steady, non-trivial stream of U.S. casualties, there will without question be an anti-war movement. We need to be ready. We need to be ready: And that is the whole point of all the (fruitless) time spent

Re: Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
--- Ian Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Charles Jannuzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] For those of us who came of age in the mid to late 70s, it's often hard to reconcile all those news and movie images of hippies taking on the powers that be and all those

Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
--- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Max B. Sawicky wrote: If there is an invasion that bogs down and/or entails a steady, non-trivial stream of U.S. casualties, there will without question be an anti-war movement. We need to be ready. We need to be ready: And that

RE: Western Rationality

2002-10-13 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L:31300] Western Rationality I wrote:if enlightenment comes only from within, then there's no way to convince anyone else of the validity of your enlightenment. It's like those religious people who say you have to Believe to understand. Well, I don't believe, so I'll just put

Re: Re: Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Charles Jannuzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where do fans of Henry Purcell and Frank Zappa fit in your political taxonomy? :-) Ian Zappa: hippie. Capt. Beefheart: understood the disinherited of the 70s. Henry Purcell: he sure ain't Henry Rollins, but

RE: Western Rationality

2002-10-13 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: Western Rationality [By mistake, I sent this before I was finished. Please reply to this one.] I wrote:if enlightenment comes only from within, then there's no way to convince anyone else of the validity of your enlightenment. It's like those religious people who say you have to

Re: RE: Western Rationality

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
RE: [PEN-L:31300] Western Rationality - Original Message - From: Devine, James Lewontin and Levins (in their DIALECTICAL BIOLOGIST) argue against the Enlightenment version of science. They see the world as heterogeneous, involving a large number of parts that are interconnected as part

Re: RE: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Devine, James wrote: [CLIP] This is looking at matters in an overly individualistic way, with too much emphasis on rational decision-making (something I expect from economists, not from Carrol). O.K. I'll have to buy this. As you suspect, that is the one form of disagreement that

Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Charles Jannuzi wrote: For those of us who came of age in the mid to late 70s, it's often hard to reconcile all those news and movie images of hippies taking on the powers that be and all those ex-hippies who became the powers that be. At least consider the possibility (and this was,

Re: Re: Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Charles Jannuzi wrote: but anyone who could set Dryden to music deserves some credit for trying. Hey now -- Dryden wrote some pretty fucking good stuff. Carrol

Re: Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:24 PM Subject: [PEN-L:31340] Re: Re: campus anti-war movements Charles Jannuzi wrote: For those of us who came of age in the mid to late 70s, it's often hard to

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
--- Ian Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Charles Jannuzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where do fans of Henry Purcell and Frank Zappa fit in your political taxonomy? :-) Ian Zappa: hippie. Capt. Beefheart: understood the disinherited of the 70s.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Charles Jannuzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well I always was most influenced by Zappa's goofy-assed turns as 'consultant' for newly 'democratic' governments of Eastern Europe. I think a few friends and I had a discussion of his music though. It went something

Re: Re: Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Ian Murray wrote: And some of them had MBA's some JD's some PhD's and some of them were toddlers and parents That goes without saying. I had a Ph.D. before I participated in my first demonstration! Carrol Ian

Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
--- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Charles Jannuzi wrote: but anyone who could set Dryden to music deserves some credit for trying. Hey now -- Dryden wrote some pretty fucking good stuff. Carrol Oh come on, Paradise Lost in couplets? No, actually Carrol, I quite enjoy

EU CAP

2002-10-13 Thread Ian Murray
UK retreats on farm pledge Government likely to accept compromise CAP reform Charlotte Denny, economics correspondent Monday October 14, 2002 The Guardian The government is preparing to back down from its demands for a radical overhaul of the European Union's lavish farm subsidies in the face

Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Carrol Cox
Charles Jannuzi wrote: --- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's couplets, though, give me Pope anyday. With that I certainly agree. But Dryden's _Aeneid_ is well worth reading. (I've never read his _Adam Unparadis'd_. That's the sort of thing one takes up _after_ completing a

Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Charles Jannuzi
--- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Charles Jannuzi wrote: --- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's couplets, though, give me Pope anyday. With that I certainly agree. But Dryden's _Aeneid_ is well worth reading. (I've never read his _Adam Unparadis'd_. That's

Re: Singer Belafonte Likens Powell to 'House Slave'

2002-10-13 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 10/13/02 6:51:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The entertainer, who like Powell is a black man of Jamaican descent, criticized the secretary when asked by radio host Ted Leitner whether he thought Powell had taken a low profile as the Bush administration

Re: Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 10/13/02 9:51:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Devine, James" wrote: Seeds of Protest Growing on College Campuses By TAMAR LEWIN New York TIMES/Oct. 12, 2002 [CLIP] "We knew that military action was likely soon, and wanted to give students who

RE: Western Rationality

2002-10-13 Thread Sabri Oncu
Jim wrote: I should reiterate that the reason why western rationality is in quotation marks is because it is not the same thing as scientific thinking. Exactly. This is why I had western rationality in quotation marks in my post that started this discussion. As should be obvious that my

Re: campus anti-war movements

2002-10-13 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
At 8:17 PM -0500 10/13/02, Carrol Cox wrote: Devine, James wrote: [CLIP] This is looking at matters in an overly individualistic way, with too much emphasis on rational decision-making (something I expect from economists, not from Carrol). O.K. I'll have to buy this. As you

Re: Re: Re: What is science

2002-10-13 Thread ken hanly
There is no such Platonic argument. Thrasymachus in the Republic argues this and gets a good trouncing for doing so at the hands of Socrates. Where do you think that PLATO argues this? Or do you think that Thrasymachus is actually Plato in the Republic. That is an interesting theory. Cheers. Ken

Invitation to SSGRR conferences in ITALY!

2002-10-13 Thread ssgrr2003w
CALL FOR PAPERS AND PARTICIPATION AT SSGRR CONFERENCES IN YEAR 2003 The SSGRR (Scuola Superiore G Reiss Romoli) Congress Center, Telecom Italia Learning Services, L'Aquila (near Rome), ITALY (www.ssgrr.it). Respected Dr. We are honored to invite you to submit and present your paper(s) at the

Re: what is science? Pen-L:31265

2002-10-13 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, Ravi writes, i would use the example of the mathematician ramanujan, whose mathematical results were stupendous, but who neither cared for nor was good at proofs (leaving hardy to do the dirty work to establish his impressive results). his justification for the results he

Singer Belafonte Likens Powell to 'House Slave'

2002-10-13 Thread Waistline2
Singer Belafonte Likens Powell to 'House Slave' Wed Oct 9, 5:06 PM ET By Steve Gorman LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Singer Harry Belafonte (news) lashed out at Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) in a racially charged radio interview, likening the former general to a plantation slave