I'm sorry but I cannot make too much of that. I remember the Gulf of Tonkin
Resolution. How many had sons or daughters in the armed forces then?
I know Senator Al Gore would have, eventually, but then so would Rep.
George H.W. Bush.
Scott Gassler
At 19:40 18/03/03 -0500, Paul Zarembka wrote:
Third Wordism has died and one has to think in terms of modern Marxism.
how are the two incompatible, the recent divisions on the expropriations of the colonies i.e. iraq, nuclear notwithstanding the allies could jump at each others throat. talk of ultra imprealism in the age of globalisation
http://harikumar.brinkster.net/AllianceIssues/CLOUD.htm
On Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 19:34:07 (-0800) Devine, James writes:
...
In any event, it's for the Iraqi people to overthrow their dictator. It's
not _our_ job.
It is our responsibility to help them in any way they see fit,
if we helped put him there and supported him, is it not?
Bill
Chris Burford wrote:
Even now, it is vital to support all non coercive, non-military and
fundamentally democratic measures for stabilising Iraq.
Whatever happened to the principle of self-determination? Do other
countries have the right to stabilize the USA?
There should be
no military
I agree. When I was an undergraduate in San Diego, living on my own and
making $2.50 and hour as a laboratory assistant, I gave half my income to
support a haven for anti-war soldiers. Later in Berkeley, I worked with MDM
(movement for a democratic military). In all the anti-draft and anti-war
These two poems by Arthur Rimbaud, written between 1869 and 1871 when
he was about 16 years old, are worth reading as we march off to war.
The phrase scarlet or green in the first poem refers to the French
troops (scarlet) or German (green) who were sacrificed by their
leaders during the
Title: RE: [PEN-L:35742] Re: Re: quiet... too quiet
We should help the Iraqi people as they see fit (within reason, of course). One thing that would help is regime change in the US.
JD
-Original Message-
From: Bill Lear
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 3/19/2003 4:32 AM
Subject:
Below I give some links to a few articles from the first Gulf War in 1991
that raise issues that are coming up again on this thread with respect to
the present Gulf War. They oppose the chauvinist slogan of support our
troops, with which the flag-waving forces pretend to be concerned for the
We should help the Iraqi people as they see fit (within reason, of
course). One thing that would help is regime change in the US.
JD
We need help more badly than anyone else does, with a possible
exception of Israelis. There is no nation whose left-wing ideas and
institutions are in sorrier
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In any case, I urge one and all to read Zizek's essay, if for no other
reason, than ...
... it helps to kill time while waiting for this goddamned war to begin.
Carl
_
STOP MORE SPAM with the
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Has any member of Congress spoken up against this war? I saw Daschle's
comment where he started out strong, condeming the bastard's lack of
diplomacy, but then he said support the troops.
[Even Daschle's guarded comments were enough to get him branded a
There seem to be many discussions of this. Ad nauseam one hears that there
are good arguments on both sides of the issue. Some Prof from Duke just said
this on CBC radio and our defence minister takes the same position. Of
course there arguments on both sides but the pro legality side has quite
you can read the list on the web and still post.
On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 12:09:17AM -0500, Lisa wrote:
Ok, if it is so darn hard to unsubscribe me, can I just have my pen-l mail
condensed or something? Maybe pre-digested? That way, instead of getting
mucked up in the email, I can get on with
* U.S. 'NO-FLY' PATROLS HIT AIR DEFENCES HARD
by Bradley Graham
Gulf News, from Los Angeles Times-Washington Post News Service, 10th March
Washington: The commander of U.S. air forces in the Gulf said Saturday that
several months of intensified U.S. airstrikes had hit all fixed air defences
in
I know nothing about the TFF but the article makes a point that puzzled me
for ten seconds until I remembered that after all the UN is simply a forum
for the big boys to sort things out. When they cant, it has no role, at
least not on issues such as this.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
An article titled THE IRAQ WAR: WHERE IS THE TRUE DANGER? by the
Freudian radical Slavoj Zizek just showed up at:
http://www.lacan.com/iraq.htm
snip
One can surmise that the US are well aware that the era of Saddam
and his non-fundamentalist regime is coming to an end in Iraq, and
that the
Title: RE: [PEN-L:35757] Re: Zizek's latest
Yoshie writes:
One can also surmise that the USG was well aware that the era of
theocracy is coming to an end in Iran. Having captured Afghanistan,
and now conquering Iraq, it will be soon in a position to invade Iran
from both east and west,
Title: Spitting Image
Marty Hart-Landsberg writes:
This issue has been dealt with in an excellent book by Jerry Lembcke
entitled the Spitting Image. In this book he examines the origins of the
myth of vietnam vets being spat upon. He followed up every charge and
could find no substantiation.
While adamant opposition to war remains correct, the left would be in a
better position (politically and ethically) if it had consistently
supported constructive initiatives on human rights. The suppression of
hundreds of millions of people under absolute despotisms, and the
oppression of
At 9:25 AM -0800 3/19/03, Peter Dorman wrote:
The big obstacle to overcome on the left is, to put it very bluntly,
nationalism.
No, sir, the big obstacle in the USA is lack of money and manpower at
the disposal of leftists, as well as lack of a powerful challenge to
US imperialism. For better
I hope that Jim's suspicion is wrong here.
On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 09:03:16AM -0800, Devine, James wrote:
BTW, I wish that people wouldn't attack this fellow Zizek as a way to attack
other people on pen-l. This Aesopian way of writing produces such bizarre
events as when I criticized Stalin a
Isn't it the point that BOTH in Vietnam and now, the Congress didn't
have family and friends in the enlisted ranks?
Gene Coyle
Robert Scott Gassler wrote:
I'm sorry but I cannot make too much of that. I remember the Gulf of Tonkin
Resolution. How many had sons or daughters in the armed forces
Devine, James wrote:
BTW, I wish that people wouldn't attack this fellow Zizek as a way to
attack other people on pen-l. This Aesopian way of writing produces such
bizarre events as when I criticized Stalin a month or so ago and
discovered that a pen-ler interpreted this as an attack on _him_!
* Copyright © 2001 by Against the Current
The Greatest Gulf War Heroes:
In Honor of Our Resisters
by Betsy Esch
Airplanes don't fly, tanks don't run, ships don't sail, missiles
don't fire unless the sons and daughters of Americans make them do
it. It's just that simple.
-- General
Negative Views of U.S. Are Increasing in Europe, Poll Finds
By CHRISTOPHER MARQUIS and MARJORIE CONNELLY The New York Times
WASHINGTON, March 19 As the Bush administration drives toward war in Iraq
(news - web sites), resentment and hostility are building toward America in
general and Mr. Bush
Title: FW: Iraq War - Predictions Past and Present
some predictions about the war.
From : Renee Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject : Iraq War - Predictions Past and Present
Date : Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:10:18 -0800
To my students: I told you so.
Back in 1999
Title: FW: Iraq War - Predictions Past and Present
An interesting article who is Martin? Of course the
New American Century People are also after Saudi Arabia, Libya, Syria, Egypt and
I forget the other ten...;)
Cheers, Ken Hanly
- Original Message -
From:
Devine, James
Title: FW: Iraq War - Predictions Past and Present
I don't know
who Martin is. I simply forwarded it.
BTW, a
student told me that some CIA guy was on TV saying that Syria was next, in order
to end that country's domination of Lebanon.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I just received an e-mail from ECAAR about the antiwar petition that I
and many of you signed. As I scanned the ad copy with the list of
names, I was struck by the inclusion of Martin Feldstein. OK, it wasn't
exactly Martin Feldstein but Martin Feldstei -- but then I was Peter
Dorma. So is
Who is this Martin Feldstein?
Sabri
Just read on Haberturk, a Turkish News Site, that oil wells in
Iraq are on fire. The news piece said, details will follow
soon. In the mean time here is an article from Houston Cronicle.
Sabri
+
March 19, 2003, 10:59AM
Saddam opens spigots on oil wells, reports say
By DAVID IVANOVICH
BusinessWeek Online
MARCH 19, 2003
WAR IN IRAQ
Racing Saddam to Iraq's Oil Fields
Securing them before they're blown up is a massive challenge.
Even harder may be putting out the fires if the wells do get
torched
Next to grabbing Saddam Hussein himself, one of the most
difficult tasks facing
Title: RE: [PEN-L:35771] Martin Feldstein??
and I was James G. Devin
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
stop the war now!
-Original Message-
From: Peter Dorman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003
Title: RE: [PEN-L:35772] Re: Martin Feldstein??
he's a very conservative economist at Harvard, famous for faking results that made Social Security look bad (or perhaps he made a mistake that he didn't notice because it fit with his preconceptions). He's the economic godfather of Greg Mankiw,
Huh? What do you mean? What groups? When?
Carrol
Huh? What do you mean? What groups? When?
Carrol
It is working now. Maybe because of the heavy load.
There have been rumours floating around that they are going to
shut it down, though.We will see.
If I were them, I would not shut it down. It would be a major
mistake on their part. They
AP World - General News
Iraqi diplomat says no plans to destroy oil facilities in case of
war
Tue Mar 18, 2:04 AM ET
NEW DELHI, India - An Iraqi diplomat said Tuesday that his
government had no plans to destroy its oil wells or attack oil
structures in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia in the event of an
You sure these aren't US special forces on orders from Halliburton?;)
Cheers, Ken Hanly
- Original Message -
From: Sabri Oncu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PEN-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ALIST
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 4:33 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:35773] Iraq: Oil wells are burning
Title: prediction
The was a posting on our local
(Nevada City CA USA) Peace Center forum:
Since everyone else is
predicting the outcome of the war, I figure I'd try it
too:
Shock and Awe scares the Iraqi
armyinto immediate surrender with 5 casualties.
Saddam flees to Utah to live in
exile
CONTACT:
Roger Normand, CESR Executive Director, (718) 237-9145 ext. 12
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For Immediate Release: March 18, 2003
NEW REPORT: WAR IN IRAQ IS UNEQUIVOCALLY ILLEGAL
Human Rights Group Warns of Return to the Rule of the Jungle in
International Affairs
New York, March 17, 2003--War
Original Message
Subject: State Dept Advisory
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:54:15 -0500
From: Bob Broedel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Science for the People Discussion
List[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
State Department Warns Americans Not To Act Like Americans
By R.O.
Title: the nature of the war
Yesterday, I had a conversation with a friend who's been on the left for about 55 years. He suggested that Bush's war may actually be against the collective interests of the ruling class, the product of a small clique within that class.
I suggested instead that
Your friend may be correct. Business Week, which tends to reflect the
upper reaches of the other class, has not been too supportive of the war.
What may be more likely is that the old Yankee/Cowboy split is coming
unglued -- maybe reverting back to the older Rockefeller/Goldwater split?
I don't
Title: Re: the nature of the war
Yesterday, I had a
conversation with a friend who's been on the left for about 55 years.
He suggested that Bush's war may actually be against the collective
interests of the ruling class, the product of a small clique within
that class.
I suggested instead that
You sure these aren't US special forces on
orders from Halliburton?;)
Cheers, Ken Hanly
Quite possible. Now the attack on Iraq is official. Don't know
what to say.
Sabri
++
03/19 22:28
Treasuries Fall for Fourth Day After U.S. Begins Attack on Iraq
By Beth Thomas
Tokyo, March 20
I have heard that oil is likely to be used a weapon to cover troops. oil pipelines are spilling in the desert around basra and the shore of shat alarab to avoid amphibian assaults, a huge environmental disiater maybe in the making.Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness,
Ready for the Peace?
By BOB HERBERT
ow that U.S. strikes against Iraq have begun, we should get rid of one
canard immediately, and that's the notion that criticism of the Bush
administration and opposition to this invasion imply in some sense a lack of
support or concern for the men and women
Hmmm..obliterating downtown Baghdad would be a
colossal mistake...oops sorry...just meant a bit of shock and awe and got
carried away...
Cheers, Ken Hanly
From paper to the battlefield
By Seth Stern | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
If all goes according to plan, thousands of
In an interview with F. engels just before he died, he rasied concerns about the future casualties of war with the development of smokeless gunpowder, now it is shock and awe, every missile fired is like a commercial for anew and improved product. and now my question is how to provide for a
Speaking of french poetry, here is one in french by Eluard.
"L'Avis" (1942)La nuit qui précéda sa mortFut la plus courte de sa vieL'idée qu'il existait encoreLui brûlai le sang aux poignetsLe poids de son corps l'écoeraitSa force le fasait gémirC'est tout au fond de cette horreurQu'il a
At 2003-03-19 09:15 -0500, you wrote:
Chris Burford wrote:
Even now, it is vital to support all non coercive, non-military and
fundamentally democratic measures for stabilising Iraq.
Whatever happened to the principle of self-determination? Do other
countries have the right to stabilize the USA?
If war is the continuation of politics, what are the underlying politics
that are being manifested in the war? How will the nature of the war change
these? How will they be manifest?
Saddam Hussein's defence is essentially political. It is hard to judge the
war from the opening salvos - a
This week has shown the fundamental strength of inter-imperialist
contradictions. They are not such as inevitably to lead to war between the
different imperialist blocs.
This is a reflection of the underlying interpenetrated system of global
finance capital. The gold price has just dropped on
Louis Proyect wrote:
An article titled THE IRAQ WAR: WHERE IS THE TRUE DANGER? by the
Freudian radical Slavoj Zizek just showed up at:
http://www.lacan.com/iraq.htm
It is written from his customarily tortured perspective, which is to
treat all important events in the class struggle as tidbits
An article titled THE IRAQ WAR: WHERE IS THE TRUE DANGER? by the
Freudian radical Slavoj Zizek just showed up at:
http://www.lacan.com/iraq.htm
It is written from his customarily tortured perspective, which is to
treat all important events in the class struggle as tidbits of popular
culture
They claim this is temporary. We will see!
Sabri
Subject: Call to Conscience press release and Speakers Bureau
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:25:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Vets Call to Conscience [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please send this out to your local press. Bye the way, anyone going to
the vet event in DC or SF this weekend and
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