U.S. Extends Iraq Deployment of Key Army Division
Alas, we are letting them get away with decisions like the following without making a peep * U.S. Extends Iraq Deployment of Key Army Division July 14 - By Will Dunham WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Facing mounting security threats in Iraq, the U.S. military said on Monday thousands of soldiers from a key Army division would not return home by September as expected and instead stay in Iraq indefinitely. The 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) was the first American unit to enter Baghdad during the war after thrusting from Kuwait through southern Iraq to reach the Iraqi capital, and soldiers from the division now are shouldering a heavy load in the effort to stabilize postwar Iraq. Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, the division's commander, last week announced plans for the division to return home during July and August after a protracted deployment in the region. But the Army reversed itself on Monday, saying the return of 9,000 of the division's troops had been put on hold. The Pentagon deployed about 16,500 3rd Infantry Division soldiers during the war, and about 15,000 remain in Iraq and Kuwait. Thirty-seven soldiers from the division have been killed in the war and its aftermath. Rich Olson, a spokesman for the Army's Fort Stewart in Georgia, said some elements of the division will return as previously announced, including the 3rd Brigade Combat Team. About 1,000 soldiers have come home in the past week, Olson said, and others are in the process of returning. But Olson said the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 2d Brigade Combat Team, the 7th Cavalry's 3rd Squadron and other elements of the division will remain in Iraq until further notice. Olson said he knew of no new time table for their return http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20030714_474.html * -- Yoshie * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://solidarity.igc.org/
Re: U.S. Extends Iraq Deployment of Key Army Division
- Original Message - From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alas, we are letting them get away with decisions like the following without making a peep = 'They' didn't listen to 'us' for the last 12 years of the war; what makes you think they'll listen now? Citizens simply cannot resist 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Ian
Tue., 8/19: Bring the Troops Home Now! Rally
I received the following announcement via the listserv of Military Families Speak Out. I checked the ANSWER website, but it is not on its home page, so I assume that this is mainly organized by the NY chapter of ANSWER. * Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:10:40 + From: resistgwb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MilitaryFamiliesSpeakOut] Bring the Troops Home Now! Rally Dear Friends, On Tuesday, August 19, military families, veterans, and activists will rally at the House of the Lord Church for a Bring the Troops Home Now Rally. You are invited to help launch this nation-wide campaign which will build towards a march on Washington D.C. on October 25. This rally, which is co-sponsored by the Martin Luther King Peace Now Committee and the International A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition, will feature presentations by families of military personnel and veterans, as well as anti-war activists. As the conflict in Iraq continues as casualties mount on both sides, it becomes clear that what the Bush Administration presented as a quick war of liberation is turning into a long and bloody occupation. Only a mass movement of the people can stop the occupation. Let's all come out and demand that our sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters come home now. Military families who would like to be involved can call 212-633-6646. We invite you to attend at The House Of The Lord Church 415 Atlantic Ave. (downtown Brooklyn between Nevins and Bond St.; 2,3,4,5 trains to Nevins St. or A,C trains to Hoyt-Schemerhorn). For more information call 212-633-6646. * I don't think that this ANSWER rally will be big, but it sure beats doing nothing against the occupation until fall. -- Yoshie * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://solidarity.igc.org/
Re: U.S. Extends Iraq Deployment of Key Army Division
- Original Message - From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alas, we are letting them get away with decisions like the following without making a peep = 'They' didn't listen to 'us' for the last 12 years of the war; what makes you think they'll listen now? Citizens simply cannot resist 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Ian Sure, but the last big nationwide mobilization happened on the day of invasion, and it's been almost four months since then. -- Yoshie * Calendars of Events in Columbus: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html, http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php, http://www.cpanews.org/ * Student International Forum: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/ * Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/ * Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio * Solidarity: http://solidarity.igc.org/
Re: catfish and free trade
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Devine, James wrote: Isn't a pollak a kind of fish? Yes, but he spells his name with a c. Michael
Greg Palast on US HIV program
In his latest article on his website, GP sez: quote The US press does not understand why Africans don't jump for Bush's generous offer. None note that the money held out to the continent's desperate nations has strings attached or, more accurately, chains and manacles. The billions offered are mostly loans at full interest which may be used only to buy patent drugs at a price several times that available from other nations. unquote Is this true? I've heard other criticisms, but I haven't heard this one before. Michael
Re: Greg Palast on US HIV program
7/15/03 Hi Michael, Check out the July 14 Democracy Now! radio show on the Pacifica News site. Sorry, I dont have the url. At the end of the show, Amy Goodman spoke with a woman about patent monopolies, pharmaceutical drugs and U.S. aid to Africa. Best, Seth Sandronsky In his latest article on his website, GP sez: quote The US press does not understand why Africans don't jump for Bush's generous offer. None note that the money held out to the continent's desperate nations has strings attached or, more accurately, chains and manacles. The billions offered are mostly loans at full interest which may be used only to buy patent drugs at a price several times that available from other nations. unquote Is this true? I've heard other criticisms, but I haven't heard this one before. Michael _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
The French education workers
France - A wave of working class mobilisation The period between mid-March and 19 June saw the largest wave of industrial protests in France since the Winter of 1995, when a railway strike developed into a full-scale mobilisation across the public sector. This time, the spearhead of the protest was education workers. However, the series of national days of action called by the trade- union confederations provided opportunities for new sections of the public sector to join the demonstrations which were organised in many towns. In some cases, these workers remained on strike for several days, in between consecutive national days of action, or carried on participating in street protests. Such was the case, in the public transport systems of the large towns, in the railways, the post office, the road maintenance service and municipal services, among others. Private sector workers did join many of the marches held during this period and some took strike action, if only for a few hours, to join the protest. But the mobilisation did not really spread to the decisive industrial strongholds of the working class. The strikes and marches which took place during this period involved several million workers in one way or another - that is a significant section of the working population. The most positive side of this wave of militancy was its lack of sectional divisions. Due to the general character of its objectives (the issue of pension rights and to a lesser degree the attacks on education) and due to the determination of a large number of strikers to convince other sections of workers to join in the protest, it appeared as the militant expression of the working population as a whole. For once, thanks to this high degree of unity in purpose and action, teachers - i.e. intellectual workers who do not normally see their fate as being tied to that of the rest of the working population - had to take on board the fact that all wage earners, whether intellectual or otherwise, have the same interests. This wave of protest failed to force the government to withdraw its attacks against the pension system. But despite this failure, it has proved that the working population could raise its head and fight back, even after the past years of on-going attacks from the bosses and their governments. Besides, no-one can tell what the future has in store. It may well be that this militant wave is not over and that what has happened in April-June turns out to be the first phase of a future larger mobilisation, large and deep enough to be victorious this time. In any case this is what can be hoped for. Full story: http://www.union-communiste.org/eng/txt/csg51004.htm
A Short History of American Capitalism
http://www.newhistory.org/ -- The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org
Merle Haggard
That's the News by Merle Haggard (selections) Suddenly it's over The war is finally done Soldiers in the desert sand Still clinging to a gun. No one is the winner And everyone must lose Suddenly the war is over That's the news. ... Politicians do all the talking Soldiers pay the dues Suddenly the war is over That's the news. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Merle Haggard
A long way from Okie from Muskogee, no? jks --- Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's the News by Merle Haggard (selections) Suddenly it's over The war is finally done Soldiers in the desert sand Still clinging to a gun. No one is the winner And everyone must lose Suddenly the war is over That's the news. ... Politicians do all the talking Soldiers pay the dues Suddenly the war is over That's the news. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Merle Haggard
andie nachgeborenen wrote: A long way from Okie from Muskogee, no? Yup. Speaking of which, I heard an Australian aborigine singing that song at an opening at the aboriginal arts center in Adelaide a couple of years ago. A truly strange experience. Doug
Re: Merle Haggard
andie nachgeborenen wrote: A long way from Okie from Muskogee, no? jks origianlly written as a joke while high smoking weed
Re: Merle Haggard
A long way from Okie from Muskogee, no? jks I heard a report on the writing of that song on US National Public Radio awhile back. Haggard and the rest of the band were stoned out of their gourds on pot when driving through Muskogee -- and the song was a satire. It's the audience that interpreted it as a patriotic anthem in defense of middle America and its values -- and made it so successful. (for anyone who doesn't know the lyrics: We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee; We don't take our trips on LSD We don't burn our draft cards down on Main Street; We like livin' right, and bein' free. I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee, A place where even squares can have a ball We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse, And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all We don't make a party out of lovin'; We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo; We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy, Like the hippies out in San Francisco do. And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee, A place where even squares can have a ball. We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse, And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all. Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear; Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen. Football's still the roughest thing on campus, And the kids here still respect the college dean. We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse, In Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA.) Of course, Haggard also wrote fightin' side. (lyrics: I hear people talkin' bad, About the way we have to live here in this country, Harpin' on the wars we fight, An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be. An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides, An' standin' up for things they believe in. When they're runnin' down my country, man, They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me. Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me. Runnin' down the way of life, Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep. If you don't love it, leave it: Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'. If you're runnin' down my country, man, You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me. I read about some squirrely guy, Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'. An' I wonder just how long, The rest of us can count on bein' free. They love our milk an' honey, But they preach about some other way of livin'. When they're runnin' down my country, hoss, They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me. Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me. Runnin' down the way of life, Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep. If you don't love it, leave it: Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'. If you're runnin' down my country, man, You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me. Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me. Runnin' down the way of life, Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep. If you don't love it, leave it: Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'. If you're runnin' down my country, man, You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.) The fact that Haggard is critical of the current war seems to be a sign of things to come in Middle America. Jim
Re: Merle Haggard
Devine, James wrote: A long way from Okie from Muskogee, no? jks I heard a report on the writing of that song on US National Public Radio awhile back. Haggard and the rest of the band were stoned out of their gourds on pot when driving through Muskogee -- and the song was a satire. It's the audience that interpreted it as a patriotic anthem in defense of middle America and its values -- and made it so successful. (for anyone who doesn't know the lyrics: We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee; We don't take our trips on LSD We don't burn our draft cards down on Main Street; We like livin' right, and bein' free. Some soldiers in the G.I. movement in whatever camp it is near El Paso Texas stayed overnight with us on their way east for a conference. They gave us copies of some of the songs they used. One was a rewrite of Okie from Muskogee. It's still around the house someplace, I don't know where, but a couple of the lines were something like this: We don't drop bombs on children in Muskogee, And we don't think too much of those who do. (Not quite accurate, but it gives the feel.) I think I've posted before on an interesting difference between the words in the text from the G.I. movement and as it was later printed in the Berkeley Barb: G.I. version: They send our kids to school they're just like prisons. Berkeley Barb: They send us off to school they're just like prisons. Too bad Guthrie wasn't alive and well to play with the pronouns. Carrol
History of American Capitalism
Thanks Louis for the ref ! J.
Re: Merle Haggard
Haggard lives in Reading, near Chico. He had served time in San Quentin, I believe. He was also one of the patients of Tenet Health care who seem to be given unnecessary heart surgery to make more . On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 08:33:11AM -0700, Devine, James wrote: That's the News by Merle Haggard (selections) Suddenly it's over The war is finally done Soldiers in the desert sand Still clinging to a gun. No one is the winner And everyone must lose Suddenly the war is over That's the news. ... Politicians do all the talking Soldiers pay the dues Suddenly the war is over That's the news. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Back to slavery
From the Tigertown e-news Ancient Athens provides model for contemporary workplace Classical history scholars may not seem the most likely candidates to write a book on the modern workplace, yet Princeton Professor Josiah Ober and co-author Brook Manville have done just that -- demonstrating that ancient Athens can serve as a model for potentially powerful organizational practices. http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/03/0519/3a.shtml __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
The Fed's MPR
http://www.federalreserve.gov/BoardDocs/HH/2003/July/FullReport.htm To this day, no one has come up with a set of rules for originality. There aren't any. [Les Paul]
Learning about revolution in the musical Oklahoma ! (you may say we're hicks and rednecks, but we ain't unaware)
ill lead the way? Song: Its a Scandal! Its An Outrage! Band: Rodgers And Hammerstein Album: Oklahoma! Broadway Musical [Peddler] Oh! Trapped!... Tricked! ... Hoodwinked! ... Ambushed! ... [Men] Friend, Whut's on yer mind? Why do you walk Around and around, With yer hands Folded behind, And yer chin scrapin' the ground? [Peddler] [Speaking] O fellars I don't believe it! [Singing] Twenty minutes ago I am free like the breeze, Free like a bird in the woodland wild, Free like a gypsy, free like a child, I'm a happy man! [Additional Verse] I'm unattached! Twenty minutes ago I can do what I please, Flick my cigar ashes on a rug, Dunk with a donut, drink from a jug- [Peddler] I'm minding my own business like I oughter Ain't meanin' no harm to anyone. I'm talking to a certain farmer's daughter- Then I'm looking into the muzzle of a gun! [Men] It's getting so you cain't have any fun! Every daughter has a father with a gun! It's a scandal, it's an outrage! How a gal gits a husband today! [Peddler] If you make one mistake when the moon is bright, Then they tie you to a contract, So you'll make it ev'ry night! [Men] It's a scandal, it's an outrage! When her fambly surround you and say: You gotta make an honest womern outta Nell! [Peddler] To make you make her honest, she will lie like hell! [Men] It's a scandal, it's an outrage! On our manhood, it's a blot! Where is the leader who will save us? And be the first man to be shot? [Peddler] Me? [Men] It's a scandal, it's an outrage! Jist a wink and a kiss and you're through! [Peddler] You're in a mess, and in less than a year, by heck! There's a baby on your shoulder making bubbles on your neck! [Men] It's a scandal, it's an outrage! Any farmer will tell you it's true. [Peddler] A rooster in a chickencoop is better off'n men. He ain't the special property of just one hen! [Men] It's a scandal, it's an outrage! When it's gonna be the day We're gonna lead the liberation And we will lead the way? [Alternative Verse] [Men] It's a problem we must solve We gotta start a REVOLUTION! [Girls] All right, boys! Revolve! [Alternative Verse] [Men] It's a problem we must solve We gotta start a revolution! [Girls] All right, boys! Revolve! [Alternative Verse] [Men] It's a problem we must solve We gotta start a revolution! [Girls] All right, boys! Revolve!
Re: Back to slavery
Contrary to the JKS's headline, the authors aren't pro-slavery, seeing instead Athenian slavery and the treatment of women foreigners as an Achilles heel of the system. The book seems to be an effort to make money out of the humanities by entering the field the pop-management literature. It won't go far, since I doubt that corporations will like the idea of choosing the CEO by lot... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] Back to slavery From the Tigertown e-news Ancient Athens provides model for contemporary workplace Classical history scholars may not seem the most likely candidates to write a book on the modern workplace, yet Princeton Professor Josiah Ober and co-author Brook Manville have done just that -- demonstrating that ancient Athens can serve as a model for potentially powerful organizational practices. http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/03/0519/3a.shtml __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
My writing is totally incoherent. Here's what I meant to say: Contrary to JKS's headline, the authors aren't pro-slavery, seeing instead Athenian slavery and the treatment of women foreigners as an Achilles heel of the system. The book seems to be an effort to make money out of the humanities by entering the field of pop-management literature. It won't go far, since I doubt that corporations will like the idea of choosing the CEO by lot... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Devine, James Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] Back to slavery From the Tigertown e-news Ancient Athens provides model for contemporary workplace Classical history scholars may not seem the most likely candidates to write a book on the modern workplace, yet Princeton Professor Josiah Ober and co-author Brook Manville have done just that -- demonstrating that ancient Athens can serve as a model for potentially powerful organizational practices. http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/03/0519/3a.shtml __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Water and the Middle East conflict
http://prorev.com/mideastwater.pdf -- The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org
DU
Michael Perelman wrote: A piece of depleted uranium is not particularly radioactive because the particles it emits are relatively big and will mostly bounce off your skin. not quite, but almost. depleted uranium emits mainly alpha particles. having a large cross-section, they can not travel far __through__ the skin from outside to reach internal organs but instead are absorbed within a few microns. however, if you breathe in dust containing DU, the dust gets trapped in your lungs. Then these same alpha particles, because of their limited ability to travel __through__ living tissue, deposit their effects in the worst places locally, i.e. lungs and surrounding areas. http://www.cadu.org.uk/info/veterans/7_2.htm as has been pointed out in some published reports, there is a subtlety involved in comparing radiological effects of inhaled DU dust with normal background radiation. typically, what is compared is the whole body dose of background radiation with the calculated dose from a reasonable estimate of inhaled uranium dust. but it is preceisely because alpha particles deposit their energy locally that this is somewhat obscuring. what really should be compared is energy deposition from DU dust local to the affected areas in the lungs with effects of background radiation in the same localized area. i have seen no such estimate yet. les schaffer
Re: DU
this is great. I'm glad I posted a provocative statement about DU, since it evoked great answers. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Les Schaffer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] DU Michael Perelman wrote: A piece of depleted uranium is not particularly radioactive because the particles it emits are relatively big and will mostly bounce off your skin. not quite, but almost. depleted uranium emits mainly alpha particles. having a large cross-section, they can not travel far __through__ the skin from outside to reach internal organs but instead are absorbed within a few microns. however, if you breathe in dust containing DU, the dust gets trapped in your lungs. Then these same alpha particles, because of their limited ability to travel __through__ living tissue, deposit their effects in the worst places locally, i.e. lungs and surrounding areas. http://www.cadu.org.uk/info/veterans/7_2.htm as has been pointed out in some published reports, there is a subtlety involved in comparing radiological effects of inhaled DU dust with normal background radiation. typically, what is compared is the whole body dose of background radiation with the calculated dose from a reasonable estimate of inhaled uranium dust. but it is preceisely because alpha particles deposit their energy locally that this is somewhat obscuring. what really should be compared is energy deposition from DU dust local to the affected areas in the lungs with effects of background radiation in the same localized area. i have seen no such estimate yet. les schaffer
Back to slavery
In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J.
Re: Back to slavery
It's a joke, Jim. A joke. . . . --- Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contrary to the JKS's headline, the authors aren't pro-slavery, seeing instead Athenian slavery and the treatment of women foreigners as an Achilles heel of the system. The book seems to be an effort to make money out of the humanities by entering the field the pop-management literature. It won't go far, since I doubt that corporations will like the idea of choosing the CEO by lot... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] Back to slavery From the Tigertown e-news Ancient Athens provides model for contemporary workplace Classical history scholars may not seem the most likely candidates to write a book on the modern workplace, yet Princeton Professor Josiah Ober and co-author Brook Manville have done just that -- demonstrating that ancient Athens can serve as a model for potentially powerful organizational practices. http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/03/0519/3a.shtml __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
Hope you are OK ? Anything I can do, just ask. J. - Original Message - From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery My writing is totally incoherent. Here's what I meant to say: Contrary to JKS's headline, the authors aren't pro-slavery, seeing instead Athenian slavery and the treatment of women foreigners as an Achilles heel of the system. The book seems to be an effort to make money out of the humanities by entering the field of pop-management literature. It won't go far, since I doubt that corporations will like the idea of choosing the CEO by lot... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Devine, James Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] Back to slavery From the Tigertown e-news Ancient Athens provides model for contemporary workplace Classical history scholars may not seem the most likely candidates to write a book on the modern workplace, yet Princeton Professor Josiah Ober and co-author Brook Manville have done just that -- demonstrating that ancient Athens can serve as a model for potentially powerful organizational practices. http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/03/0519/3a.shtml __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Merle Haggard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/03 11:53 AM I heard a report on the writing of that song on US National Public Radio awhile back. Haggard and the rest of the band were stoned out of their gourds on pot when driving through Muskogee -- and the song was a satire. It's the audience that interpreted it as a patriotic anthem in defense of middle America and its values -- and made it so successful. (Of course, Haggard also wrote fightin' side. The fact that Haggard is critical of the current war seems to be a sign of things to come in Middle America. Jim the 'hag likes to say that muscogee is the only place he doesn't smoke dope, he's played song for years as camp... if above story that mh tells about re. 'okie' as spoof is how it really went down all those years ago, then 'fighting side' really was just an attempt to cash in, haggard has acknowledged for years that song is low point in his catalogue, he hasn't played it live for years... merle calls himself a liberal by which he appears to mean libertarian, he apparently really is a big pot head and just wants to be left alone so he can get stoned (maybe norml should try to get him to do a psa)...his politics are contradictory: much of his dust bowl, working class, pro-union, anti-corporate stuff is in woody guthrie vein (listen to 'if we make it through december' or 'they're closing down the fatories), his song 'irma jackson' about interracial relationship is classic...of course, his working class tends to be male and white (and his 'working man blues' includes line about not being on welfare)... mh was at smithsonian recently and when asked about politics, he declined comment saying something to effect that he has a lot of opinions that wouldn't be too popular down the street at the white house re. his new song about war against iraq, he has said that he hopes that us finds weapons of mass destruction, he said that he hopes that us finds saddam hussein and osama bin laden... some listers may recall that there were a couple of response-songs to 'okie', nick gravenites (paul butterfield blue band keyboard player and chief musician on 'steelyard blues' soundtrack, film made during jane fonda and donald southerland's FTA (fuck the army days) wrote 'i'll fix your flat tire merle', recorded by post-janis joplin big brother and the holding company and by pure prairie league...ray wylie hubbard wrote 'up against the wall redneck mother' recored by he and his band the cowboy twinkies and by jerry jeff walker... michael hoover I'LL FIX YOUR FLAT TIRE MERLE As I drove down old 65 I was cruising down that old grapevine Well I must have been doing at least about ninety five Right there on the side of the road all broke down Well who do you think was a-standing around But the greatest country singer alive Chorus Well I'll change your flat tire, Merle Don't you get your sweet country picking fingers All covered with oil 'Cause you're a honky I know, but Merle you got soul And I'll fix your flat tire Merle Well I hear you had an adventurous youth Making love in a telephone booth And I even hear you did a little stretch in jail But now you got a big ranch house with a bar And eight, nine, ten of them fancy cars And every other week a cheque coming in the mail [chorus] Well I heard all them records you did Making fun of us long-haired kids And now you know we don't care what you think 'Cause Merle, if you're gonna call the world your home You know you're gonna have to go out and get stoned And it's better with a joint than a drink I think [chorus] UP AGAINST THE WALL REDNECK MOTHER He was born in West Virginia, His wife's name's Betty Lou Thelma Liz And he's not responsible for what he's doing Cause his mother made him what he is. And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother, Mother, who has raised her son so well. He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk. Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell. Sure does like his Falstaff beer, Likes to chase it down with that Wild Turkey liquor; Drives a fifty-seven GMC pickup truck; He's got a gun rack; Goat ropers need love, too sticker And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother, Mother, who has raised her son so well. He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk. Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell. Well, M is for the mudflaps you give me for my pickup truck O is for the Oil I put on my hair T is for T-bird H is for Haggard E is for eggs, and R is for REDNECK. Up against the wall Redneck Mother, Mother, who has raised her son so well. He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk. Kicking hippies asses and raising hell. He's up against the wall Redneck Mother, Mother, who has raised her son so well. He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk. Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell.
911 STUDY
Title: 911 STUDY The following is an interesting reportfrom a Portuguese newspaper, The Portugal News Weekend Edition (May 8, 2002) , regarding a group of US pilots who deliberated non-stop for 72 hours in an independent analysis of the 911 story. http://the-news.net/cgi-bin/story.pl?title=September%2011%20-%20US%20Government%20accusededition=663 FRONT PAGE STORY - 03/08/2002 September 11 - US Government accused A Portugal-based investigative journalist has presented THE NEWS with version of the September 11th attacks that has to date failed to attract the attention of the international press. The report, compiled by an independent inquiry into the September 11th, World Trade Centre attack, warns the American public that the government's official version of events does not stand up to scrutiny. - A group of military and civilian US pilots, under the chairmanship of Colonel Donn de Grand, after deliberating non-stop for 72 hours, has concluded that the flight crews of the four passenger airliners, involved in the September 11th tragedy, had no control over their aircraft. In a detailed press communiqué the inquiry stated: "The so-called terrorist attack was in fact a superbly executed military operation carried out against the USA, requiring the utmost professional military skill in command, communications and control. It was flawless in timing, in the choice of selected aircraft to be used as guided missiles and in the coordinated delivery of those missiles to their pre-selected targets." The report seriously questions whether or not the suspect hijackers, supposedly trained on Cessna light aircraft, could have located a target dead-on 200 miles from take off point. It further throws into doubt their ability to master the intricacies of the instrument flight rules (IFR) in the 45 minutes from take off to the point of impact. Colonel de Grand said that it would be impossible for novices to have taken control of the four aircraft and orchestrated such a terrible act requiring military precision of the highest order. A member of the inquiry team, a US Air Force officer who flew over 100 sorties during the Vietnam war, told the press conference: "Those birds (commercial airliners) either had a crack fighter pilot in the left seat, or they were being manoeuvred by remote control." In evidence given to the enquiry, Captain Kent Hill (retd.) of the US Air Force, and friend of Chic Burlingame, the pilot of the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, stated that the US had on several occasions flown an unmanned aircraft, similar in size to a Boeing 737, across the Pacific from Edwards Air Force base in California to South Australia. According to Hill it had flown on a pre programmed flight path under the control of a pilot in an outside station. Hill also quoted Bob Ayling, former British Airways boss, in an interview given to the London Economist on September 20th, 2001. Ayling admitted that it was now possible to control an aircraft in flight from either the ground or in the air. This was confirmed by expert witnesses at the inquiry who testified that airliners could be controlled by electro-magnetic pulse or radio frequency instrumentation from command and control platforms based either in the air or at ground level. All members of the inquiry team agreed that even if guns were held to their heads none of them would fly a plane into a building. Their reaction would be to ditch the plane into a river or a field, thereby safeguarding the lives of those on the ground. A further question raised by the inquiry was why none of the pilots concerned had alerted ground control. It stated that all pilots are trained to punch a four-digit code into the flight control's transponder to warn ground control crews of a hijacking - but this did not happen. During the press conference Captain Hill maintained that the four airliners must have been choreographed by an Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS). This system can engage several aircraft simultaneously by knocking out their on-board flight controls. He said that all the evidence points to the fact that the pilots and their crews had not taken any evasive action to resist the supposed hijackers. They had not attempted any sudden changes in flight path or nose-dive procedures - which led him to believe that they had no control over their aircraft. THE NEWS, in an attempt to further substantiate the potential veracity of these findings, spoke to an Algarve-based airline pilot, who has more than 20 years of experience in flying passenger planes, to seek his views. Captain Colin McHattie, currently flying with Cathay Pacific, agreed with the independent commission's findings. However, he explained that while it is possible to fly a plane from the ground, the installation of the necessary equipment is a time-consuming process, and needs extensive planning. THE NEWS will publish a full interview with Captain McHattie in next week's
Re: Merle Haggard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/03 3:13 PM ...ray wylie hubbard wrote 'up against the wall redneck mother' recored by he and his band the cowboy twinkies and by jerry jeff walker... michael hoover new riders of the purple sage also recorded above song... michael hoover
Re: Back to slavery
Sophists, Socrates would say. He wouldn't take money for doing philosophy . . . . jks --- Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J. __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
- Original Message - From: Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J. = Didn't somebody write a book a few years ago If Aristotle Ran General Motors or some such? Ian
Re: Merle Haggard
MH saidmh [Merle Haggard] was at smithsonian recently and when asked about politics, he declined comment saying something to effect that he has a lot of opinions that wouldn't be too popular down the street at the white house In the NPR interview (June 9, 2001), he revealed belief in several bizaare conspiracy theories, none of them especially liberal. Something to do with flying saucers... Jim
Re: 911 STUDY
- Original Message - From: Dan Scanlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] A group of military and civilian US pilots, under the chairmanship of Colonel Donn de Grand, after deliberating non-stop for 72 hours, has concluded that the flight crews of the four passenger airliners, involved in the September 11th tragedy, had no control over their aircraft. === BARBARIANS INSIDE THE GATES The Black Book of Bolshevism Donn de Grand Pre. Are we on the eve of a bloody revolution and martial law in the United States of America, or will it be World War III. Colonel Donn de Grand Pre, while serving as an arms negotiator in the pentagon, received a wake-up call from President Gerald Ford soon after the second attempt on his life. Ford said, Something has gone wrong in our country when a president can no longer walk among the people. This jarred Donn from his heady pursuit of striving to become the wold's leading arms peddler. Disillusioned with our government's course, both at home and abroad, Donn exited Washington, DC for his farm in Virginia where he began an intensive program of research which slowly unmasked a deadly 'Bolshevik' peril to our Republic... 'hidden Barbarians' already inside the gates; an enemy totally dedicated to the destruction of our sovereignty as a nation-state and enslavement or extermination of all who might block their despotic plans for World domination. Hard Cover, 420pp ITEM #1 $28.00 http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/1.html
Re: Back to slavery
andie nachgeborenen wrote: Sophists, Socrates would say. He wouldn't take money for doing philosophy . . . . A pampered lapdog of the filthy rich doesn't need to charge for anything. Carrol
Re: Back to slavery
Hey, I recently saw a mgt book called something like, Management Secrets of Karl Marx! (Or, Who Moved My Surplus Value?) It did NOT include advice to the boss to fire himself, vest ownership and control in the workers, and become a free producer engaged in productive but non-value-producing activity! jks --- Eubulides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J. = Didn't somebody write a book a few years ago If Aristotle Ran General Motors or some such? Ian __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show trial, and executed for subverting the youth and impiety . . . . jks --- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andie nachgeborenen wrote: Sophists, Socrates would say. He wouldn't take money for doing philosophy . . . . A pampered lapdog of the filthy rich doesn't need to charge for anything. Carrol __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
- Original Message - From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show trial, and executed for subverting the youth and impiety . . . . jks == He was driving down their fees...
Re: Back to slavery
I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance to managers than neoclassical economics does. The latter wants all relationships between people to be one of exchange... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Hey, I recently saw a mgt book called something like, Management Secrets of Karl Marx! (Or, Who Moved My Surplus Value?) It did NOT include advice to the boss to fire himself, vest ownership and control in the workers, and become a free producer engaged in productive but non-value-producing activity! jks --- Eubulides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J. = Didn't somebody write a book a few years ago If Aristotle Ran General Motors or some such? Ian __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
No, I am quite serious, I recently saw such a book. I agree that Marxian economics would be a better guide to labor relations and general management than NCE. NCE might be better on pricing questions. You really do want to price close to marginal cost if the market is competitive, above if not . . . . Why bother trying to compute labor values (for this aor any other purpose, he said provocatively, please don't follow that up!) jks --- Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance to managers than neoclassical economics does. The latter wants all relationships between people to be one of exchange... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Hey, I recently saw a mgt book called something like, Management Secrets of Karl Marx! (Or, Who Moved My Surplus Value?) It did NOT include advice to the boss to fire himself, vest ownership and control in the workers, and become a free producer engaged in productive but non-value-producing activity! jks --- Eubulides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J. = Didn't somebody write a book a few years ago If Aristotle Ran General Motors or some such? Ian __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
You mean the fees of the sophists? The Thirty were a bunch of rich pigs. They had slaves and land, not fees. jks --- Eubulides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show trial, and executed for subverting the youth and impiety . . . . jks == He was driving down their fees... __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
as Marx said, businesspeople don't care about values. Whether the commodities are sold at their values or not, and hence the determination of value itself, is quite immaterial for the individual capitalist. (international publ. ed., volume III, p. 873) Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery No, I am quite serious, I recently saw such a book. I agree that Marxian economics would be a better guide to labor relations and general management than NCE. NCE might be better on pricing questions. You really do want to price close to marginal cost if the market is competitive, above if not . . . . Why bother trying to compute labor values (for this aor any other purpose, he said provocatively, please don't follow that up!) jks --- Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance to managers than neoclassical economics does. The latter wants all relationships between people to be one of exchange... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Hey, I recently saw a mgt book called something like, Management Secrets of Karl Marx! (Or, Who Moved My Surplus Value?) It did NOT include advice to the boss to fire himself, vest ownership and control in the workers, and become a free producer engaged in productive but non-value-producing activity! jks --- Eubulides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J. = Didn't somebody write a book a few years ago If Aristotle Ran General Motors or some such? Ian __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment, whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion. Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical than market exchange. mbs I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance to managers than neoclassical economics does. The latter wants all relationships between people to be one of exchange... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Back to slavery
Oliver Williamson is not quite mainstream; his stuff doesn't appear in standard textbooks, which to my mind represent the codification of NC ideology. But more importantly, my assertion was that the NC _wants_ everything to be an exchange. The fact that hierarchy is needed is seen as a failure of the market. Back when I did a survey of the NC management literature (including OW), it seemed that the main theory was that production was a collective good for the owners and the workers alike. Workers who shirked and didn't produce enough were see as free-riders who undermined the production of the collective good. OW calls it opportunism. I don't see this as very useful to capitalist management except as a source of rhetoric. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Max B. Sawicky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment, whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion. Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical than market exchange. mbs I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance to managers than neoclassical economics does. The latter wants all relationships between people to be one of exchange... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Back to slavery
- Original Message - From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery You mean the fees of the sophists? = Of course.
Rickey Henderson
Rickey Henderson just signed with the Mets. Age 44. Stay in shape. Gene Coyle
Re: Back to slavery
andie nachgeborenen wrote: If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show trial, and executed for subverting the youth and impiety . . . . jks Wow! You're asleep today. He was tried _after_ the restoration of the Democracy, and his friendship with the 30 (particularly with Critias) was probably the the real motive both for bringing charges against him _and_ the vote for conviction. The 30 were overthrown in 403; he was tried executed in 399. Carrol
Re: Back to slavery
Devine, James wrote: Oliver Williamson is not quite mainstream; his stuff doesn't appear in standard textbooks, which to my mind represent the codification of NC ideology. But more importantly, my assertion was that the NC _wants_ everything to be an exchange. The fact that hierarchy is needed is seen as a failure of the market. Also, the fashion lately has been to contract out for more services and supplies - to bring activities out of the firm and back into the marketplace. Doug
Re: Back to slavery
I wrote: Oliver Williamson is not quite mainstream; his stuff doesn't appear in standard textbooks, which to my mind represent the codification of NC ideology. But more importantly, my assertion was that the NC _wants_ everything to be an exchange. The fact that hierarchy is needed is seen as a failure of the market. Doug writes: Also, the fashion lately has been to contract out for more services and supplies - to bring activities out of the firm and back into the marketplace. A friend once expressed the essence of this neo-liberalism: if the world doesn't fit with the model, force it to do so. I heard a bit today on US NPR about how this kind of out-sourcing of services is hurting the US national parks: among other things, the volunteers who help with the parks don't want to help pad the bottom line of private corporations and are likely to stop their volunteering. (This fits with the ideas of a NC who's even less orthodox than OW, Bruno Frey. Frey argues that relying on market motivation can easily undermine intrinsic motivation to do so something.) jim
Market motivation
Bruno Frey. Frey argues that relying on market motivation can easily undermine intrinsic motivation to do so something.) jim It's a basic rat psych 101 result that you can enhance a behavior by reinforcement, but if it was a behavior that the rat would do (some) anyway, if you take away the reinforcement, it won't do it at all anymore. jks __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Back to slavery
Right, thanks, serves me right for not looking things up, and for multitasking while doing a due diligence (boring), but they were rich bastards too. jks --- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andie nachgeborenen wrote: If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show trial, and executed for subverting the youth and impiety . . . . jks Wow! You're asleep today. He was tried _after_ the restoration of the Democracy, and his friendship with the 30 (particularly with Critias) was probably the the real motive both for bringing charges against him _and_ the vote for conviction. The 30 were overthrown in 403; he was tried executed in 399. Carrol __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: Market motivation
I wrote Bruno argues that relying on market motivation can easily undermine intrinsic motivation to do so something.) JKS: It's a basic rat psych 101 result that you can enhance a behavior by reinforcement, but if it was a behavior that the rat would do (some) anyway, if you take away the reinforcement, it won't do it at all anymore. jks that's not what BF is talking about. Here are two examples, and I quote is: A boy on good terms with his parents willingly mows the lawn of the family home. His father then offers to pay him money each time he cuts the lawn. The crowding-out effect [the theory that BF is famous for] suggests that the boy will lose his intrinsic motivation to cut the lawn (he may go on doing so, but now he does it because he is paid), but he will not be prepared to do any type of housework for free. You have been invited to your friend's house for dinner, and he has prepared a wonderful meal. Before you leave, you take out your purse and give your friend an appropriate sum of money. Probably nobody in their right mind would behave in this way, because virtually everyone knows that this would be the end of the friendship. By paying, the relationship becomes a commercial one. Yet there is one person who would not hesitate to pay a friend for dinner: classical Homo Oeconomicus would do so, following the price [incentive] effect -- and ends up without friends... (INSPIRING ECONOMICS: Human Motivation in Political Economy, p. 54) The second example is a bit like the ending of Dostoyevsky's NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. (I hope I haven't spoiled the surprise for anyone!) The case of the national park volunteers who would refuse to do free work for corporations is a classic case. Whereas they used to do it for free for the National Park Service (intrinsic motivation), they require pay (extrinsic motivation) if a private corporation is in charge. Michael Perelman has cited the case of bloodbanks, which Titmuss (sp?) shows work better with volunteers' blood than with market-type (price-signal) motivation. Frey doesn't think that intrinsic motivation is the whole story. He thinks it applies only in some social contexts. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: 911 STUDY
The lack of information available regarding 9-11 creates fertile ground for conspiracy theories. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 12:51:32PM -0700, Eubulides wrote: - Original Message - From: Dan Scanlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] A group of military and civilian US pilots, under the chairmanship of Colonel Donn de Grand, after deliberating non-stop for 72 hours, has concluded that the flight crews of the four passenger airliners, involved in the September 11th tragedy, had no control over their aircraft. === BARBARIANS INSIDE THE GATES The Black Book of Bolshevism Donn de Grand Pre. Are we on the eve of a bloody revolution and martial law in the United States of America, or will it be World War III. Colonel Donn de Grand Pre, while serving as an arms negotiator in the pentagon, received a wake-up call from President Gerald Ford soon after the second attempt on his life. Ford said, Something has gone wrong in our country when a president can no longer walk among the people. This jarred Donn from his heady pursuit of striving to become the wold's leading arms peddler. Disillusioned with our government's course, both at home and abroad, Donn exited Washington, DC for his farm in Virginia where he began an intensive program of research which slowly unmasked a deadly 'Bolshevik' peril to our Republic... 'hidden Barbarians' already inside the gates; an enemy totally dedicated to the destruction of our sovereignty as a nation-state and enslavement or extermination of all who might block their despotic plans for World domination. Hard Cover, 420pp ITEM #1 $28.00 http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/1.html -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Market motivation
Frey has done all sorts of interesting work on the subject. In some recent articles, he has shown how Swiss citizens were more willing to accept toxic waste dumps when the government did not offer to compensate them. Much of what he says is merely common sense. Imagine a young man out on the first date with an attractive woman. Theoretically -- at least according to economic -- she should be more willing to give him sensual pleasure with a monetary incentives. I suspect that this theory would not hold up very well in practice. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 02:34:19PM -0700, Devine, James wrote: I wrote Bruno argues that relying on market motivation can easily undermine intrinsic motivation to do so something.) JKS: It's a basic rat psych 101 result that you can enhance a behavior by reinforcement, but if it was a behavior that the rat would do (some) anyway, if you take away the reinforcement, it won't do it at all anymore. jks that's not what BF is talking about. Here are two examples, and I quote is: A boy on good terms with his parents willingly mows the lawn of the family home. His father then offers to pay him money each time he cuts the lawn. The crowding-out effect [the theory that BF is famous for] suggests that the boy will lose his intrinsic motivation to cut the lawn (he may go on doing so, but now he does it because he is paid), but he will not be prepared to do any type of housework for free. You have been invited to your friend's house for dinner, and he has prepared a wonderful meal. Before you leave, you take out your purse and give your friend an appropriate sum of money. Probably nobody in their right mind would behave in this way, because virtually everyone knows that this would be the end of the friendship. By paying, the relationship becomes a commercial one. Yet there is one person who would not hesitate to pay a friend for dinner: classical Homo Oeconomicus would do so, following the price [incentive] effect -- and ends up without friends... (INSPIRING ECONOMICS: Human Motivation in Political Economy, p. 54) The second example is a bit like the ending of Dostoyevsky's NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. (I hope I haven't spoiled the surprise for anyone!) The case of the national park volunteers who would refuse to do free work for corporations is a classic case. Whereas they used to do it for free for the National Park Service (intrinsic motivation), they require pay (extrinsic motivation) if a private corporation is in charge. Michael Perelman has cited the case of bloodbanks, which Titmuss (sp?) shows work better with volunteers' blood than with market-type (price-signal) motivation. Frey doesn't think that intrinsic motivation is the whole story. He thinks it applies only in some social contexts. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Back to slavery
Yes Ian, that book on General Motors exists. See http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805052534/qid=1058303758/sr=2-3/ref= sr_2_3/002-9116098-3703241 There is a literature on this, for instance Langholm , Odd Inge, Price and value in the Aristotelian tradition 1979 and Wealth and money in the Aristotelian tradition: a study in scholastic economies 1983 Meikle, Scott, Aristotle's economic thought 1997 I cannot find the stuff I read on this a long time ago, I haven't read the titles I just cited, but of Scott Meikle I know he is a reputable scholar. A point which conventional make-more-money economists often miss, is that the value theory Marx sought to tidy up intellectually did not just drop out of the air, or eventuated with Ricardo's genius, or necessarily even Petty, but goes back thousands of years in economic history, if you care to do a bit of anthropological digging around. This not only adds clout to Marx's argument, as Ernest Mandel pointed out, but also makes it intellectually easier to develop Marx's idea in a modern context (as against the orthodox idea that if Marx said it, it is true, but if anybody else says it, it must be wrong or some terrible revisionism). As Anwar Shaikh mentioned a few times, even a 93 percent LTV is better, and has more predictive power, than a theory which says that prices are determined by other prices which are determined by other prices and which are determined by other prices and which are determined by other prices. Regards Jurriaan - Original Message - From: Eubulides [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery - Original Message - From: Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a course or advice. J. = Didn't somebody write a book a few years ago If Aristotle Ran General Motors or some such? Ian
Re: Market motivation
Is the sugfgestion that the sexual favors of young men are like toxic waste? Well, ladies, whaddya think? Are we that bad? jks --- Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frey has done all sorts of interesting work on the subject. In some recent articles, he has shown how Swiss citizens were more willing to accept toxic waste dumps when the government did not offer to compensate them. Much of what he says is merely common sense. Imagine a young man out on the first date with an attractive woman. Theoretically -- at least according to economic -- she should be more willing to give him sensual pleasure with a monetary incentives. I suspect that this theory would not hold up very well in practice. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 02:34:19PM -0700, Devine, James wrote: I wrote Bruno argues that relying on market motivation can easily undermine intrinsic motivation to do so something.) JKS: It's a basic rat psych 101 result that you can enhance a behavior by reinforcement, but if it was a behavior that the rat would do (some) anyway, if you take away the reinforcement, it won't do it at all anymore. jks that's not what BF is talking about. Here are two examples, and I quote is: A boy on good terms with his parents willingly mows the lawn of the family home. His father then offers to pay him money each time he cuts the lawn. The crowding-out effect [the theory that BF is famous for] suggests that the boy will lose his intrinsic motivation to cut the lawn (he may go on doing so, but now he does it because he is paid), but he will not be prepared to do any type of housework for free. You have been invited to your friend's house for dinner, and he has prepared a wonderful meal. Before you leave, you take out your purse and give your friend an appropriate sum of money. Probably nobody in their right mind would behave in this way, because virtually everyone knows that this would be the end of the friendship. By paying, the relationship becomes a commercial one. Yet there is one person who would not hesitate to pay a friend for dinner: classical Homo Oeconomicus would do so, following the price [incentive] effect -- and ends up without friends... (INSPIRING ECONOMICS: Human Motivation in Political Economy, p. 54) The second example is a bit like the ending of Dostoyevsky's NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND. (I hope I haven't spoiled the surprise for anyone!) The case of the national park volunteers who would refuse to do free work for corporations is a classic case. Whereas they used to do it for free for the National Park Service (intrinsic motivation), they require pay (extrinsic motivation) if a private corporation is in charge. Michael Perelman has cited the case of bloodbanks, which Titmuss (sp?) shows work better with volunteers' blood than with market-type (price-signal) motivation. Frey doesn't think that intrinsic motivation is the whole story. He thinks it applies only in some social contexts. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
new topic
Now that pen-l has finished talking about Merle Haggard, is it time to turn to Garth Brooks? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Market motivation
On Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 14:40:37 (-0700) Michael Perelman writes: Frey has done all sorts of interesting work on the subject. In some recent articles, he has shown how Swiss citizens were more willing to accept toxic waste dumps when the government did not offer to compensate them. Similar to the behavior of blood donors. Bill
Re: Market motivation
andie nachgeborenen wrote: Is the sugfgestion that the sexual favors of young men are like toxic waste? Well, ladies, whaddya think? Are we that bad? waitaminit! are you calling yourself a young man? ;-) ;-) --ravi
Re: new topic
Did we finish with Les Paul? Devine, James wrote: Now that pen-l has finished talking about Merle Haggard, is it time to turn to Garth Brooks? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: new topic
- Original Message - From: Eugene Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] new topic Did we finish with Les Paul? == Lets talk about the contradictory class locations of the members of Pink Floyd when they wrote 'Money' and 'Have a Cigar.' :-) Ian
Two new web sites launched in Granma
Two web sites launched in Granma . One on Martí's ideas and the Moncada action and the other for the 14th Pan American Games. Can be found at: http://www.granma.cubaweb.cu/marti-moncada http://www.granma.cubaweb.cu/eventos/14panam BY RAISA PAGES-Granma daily- TWO new web sites, one dedicated to Martí and the Moncada assault and the other on the upcoming Pan American Games were launched yesterday in Granma daily as a contribution to the celebrations of the 150th anniversary of the national hero José Martí and the 50th of the actions of July 26,1953. The launch coincided with the 40th anniversary of the Union of Journalists of Cuba (UPEC). On the Martí and Moncada web site, readers can find a wealth of documentation on the national hero's ideas and the actions of the generation that put them into practice and is leading the present stage of the Cuban Revolution, together with all the people. Colleague Marta Rojas is the main site editor, together with Gerardo Daumont. During the launch, Armando Hart, director of the Martí Program Office, praised the value of this new digital publication and suggested further enriching its content by extending the analysis of the presence of Martí's principles in eminent 20th century figures. The web page on the 14th Pan American Games scheduled for next month in the Dominican Republic was launched by journalist Oscar Sánchez. On this site, readers can access up-to-the-minute information on the Games, as well as data of interest on the history of these regional competitions and Cuba's participation. In this launch Lino Oramas, deputy director of digital editions, highlighted the ongoing link with the readers of Granma publications on Internet and specifically mentioned the Miami5 site, a joint effort between Granma International and the daily to circulate the truth surrounding the case of the five Cubans imprisoned in the United States for combating terrorism, with versions in six languages. Humberto Rodríguez, president of the National Institute of Sports, Education and Recreation and a group of outstanding athletes; José Dos Santos and Aixa Hevia, vice presidents of UPEC; and officials from the Ideological Department of the Central Committee of the Party all attended the launch.
Re: Back to slavery
I agree that transactions costs is much in the spirit of 'exchange,' since it is based on the latter's infeasibility, but who is this NC and what does she want? Williams says Marshall posited organization as a fourth factor of production. Perelman was around then so maybe he can elaborate. Re: contracting, I'm reading Williamson because he and Coase offer an implied rebuke to the privatizers. The rational for contracting is implicitly a naive rejection of vertical integration (one form of which is a public agency that does its own production, rather than outsource). Obviously, businesslike or efficient need not entail vertical disintegration, one form of which is contracting out. My impression of the whole field of IO (and public finance) (and macro) is assorted departures from the primitive exchange paradigm. But I'll defer to the academics on that question. mbs non-existence Oliver Williamson is not quite mainstream; his stuff doesn't appear in standard textbooks, which to my mind represent the codification of NC ideology. But more importantly, my assertion was that the NC _wants_ everything to be an exchange. The fact that hierarchy is needed is seen as a failure of the market. Back when I did a survey of the NC management literature (including OW), it seemed that the main theory was that production was a collective good for the owners and the workers alike. Workers who shirked and didn't produce enough were see as free-riders who undermined the production of the collective good. OW calls it opportunism. I don't see this as very useful to capitalist management except as a source of rhetoric. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Max B. Sawicky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment, whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion. Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical than market exchange. mbs I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance to managers than neoclassical economics does. The latter wants all relationships between people to be one of exchange... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: new topic
Willie Nelson would be better. He endorsed Kucinich. -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Devine, James Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: new topic Now that pen-l has finished talking about Merle Haggard, is it time to turn to Garth Brooks? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: DU
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Les Schaffer wrote: however, if you breathe in dust containing DU, the dust gets trapped in your lungs. Then these same alpha particles, because of their limited ability to travel __through__ living tissue, deposit their effects in the worst places locally, i.e. lungs and surrounding areas. And isn't the reason that DU munitions are so effective at penetrating armor (which is why the military is so loathe to give them up) because they ignite on contact -- thereby turning most of their mass into just this kind of dust? Michael
new, improved US debt numbers
White House Projects $1.9 Trillion in New Debt Over Next Five Years War Costs, Tax Cut, Slow Economy Are Key Factors By Jonathan Weisman Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, July 15, 2003; 7:00 PM The federal government will pile up $1.9 trillion in new debt over the next five years and will still be running an annual deficit of $226 billion by 2008, long after White House economists assume current war costs have subsided and the economy has recovered, the Bush administration projected today. The White House Office of Management and Budget officially pegged the 2003 budget deficit at a record $455 billion, up sharply from $158 billion in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, 2002. It is expected to rise to $475 billion in fiscal year 2004, even without additional costs for the occupation of Iraq. The deficit is then expected to dip swiftly to $213 billion in 2007 before rising again in 2008, the last year of the White House forecast. White House budget director Joshua B. Bolten labeled the new deficit figures a legitimate subject of concern, but he called the red ink manageable. He offered no new proposals to bring the budget back into balance. Restoring a balanced budget is an important priority for this administration, he said, but a balanced budget is not a higher priority than winning the global war on terror, protecting the American homeland, or restoring economic growth and job creation. Bolten, offering his first deficit projections since taking over as budget director last month, would not concede a point private budget experts have been making for months: Absent significant budget cuts or tax increases, the deficit is now built into the fabric of the government's finances and is here to stay. We are truly in a structural deficit as it's usually defined, said Rudolph G. Penner, a Republican and former director of the Congressional Budget Office, and this is not going to right itself. There has been a dramatic reversal of the government's fiscal fortune since President Bush took office in 2001. That year, the government posted a $127 billion surplus, and the CBO projected surpluses between 2003 and 2008 totaling $2.9 trillion. That means projections have shot downward by $4.8 trillion. Just what caused that erosion is the subject of fierce partisan debate. The White House pinned the blame on three years of sluggish economic growth and the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. During Bush's first months in office, the White House projected a $334 billion surplus for 2003. Of the $789 billion swing to a $455 billion deficit, Bolten attributed 53 percent to the economic downturn, 24 percent to war, homeland security and other new programs, and 23 percent to the three successive tax cuts enacted since 2001. Republicans said the tax cuts will boost economic growth and ultimately shrink the deficit. The tax cuts proposed by the president and enacted by Congress are not the problem, Bolten said. They are and will be part of the solution. Democrats disagree. Between 2002 and 2011, the government will have racked up $3.6 trillion in deficits, House Budget Committee Democratic aides project. During the same time, Bush-era tax cuts and the interest they add to government debt will have cost $3.7 trillion. Those statistics will likely animate the political debate over the president's fiscal policies throughout the election season. Democratic candidates sought today to put the swelling deficit into the context of their attacks on Bush's credibility over the justifications for invading Iraq. Just as disturbing as the news today about the record deficits the Bush administration has run up is the White House's response to the situation. President Bush is repeating two dangerous habits: misleading the American people and ducking responsibility for his mistakes, said Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (D-Conn.), a candidate for the 2004 presidential nomination. Everyone knows what is really responsible for these deficits, he concluded, the unfair, unaffordable, and ineffective Bush tax cuts. Rep. John M. Spratt Jr. (S.C.), ranking Democrat on the Budget Committee, lamented, There seems to be no shame, no shock and no solution. For both the Democrats and Bush, addressing the deficit presents a quandary. Mindful of his father's deficit-reduction experiences of 1991 and 1992, when President George H.W. Bush broke his no new taxes pledge, the president will be loath to reverse course on his own tax cuts. But he has also proved reluctant to demand deep spending cuts and risk alienating moderate voters. Because the tax cut enacted last month locked in tax reductions that otherwise would have phased in long after next year's election, Democratic candidates would have to advocate raising taxes to have much impact on the deficit. That also is politically perilous. We're in a very tough bind now, said Robert L. Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan budget watchdog group. A lot
the next frontier of 'privatization'
[NY Times] July 15, 2003 Teaching Computers to Work in Unison By STEVE LOHR Computers do wondrous things, but computer science itself is largely a discipline of step-by-step progress as a steady stream of innovations in hardware, software and networking pile up. It is an engineering science whose frontiers are pushed ahead by people building new tools rendered in silicon and programming code rather than the breathtaking epiphanies and grand unifying theories of mathematics or physics. Yet computer science does have its revelatory moments, typically when several advances come together to create a new computing experience. One of those memorable episodes took place in December 1995 at a supercomputing conference in San Diego. For three days, a prototype project, called I-Way, linked more than a dozen big computer centers in the United States to work as if a single machine on computationally daunting simulations, like the collision of neutron stars and the movement of cloud patterns around the globe. There were glitches and bugs. Only about half of the 60 scientific computer simulations over the I-Way worked. But the participants recall those few days as the first glimpse of what many computer scientists now regard as the next big evolutionary step in the development of the Internet, known as grid computing. It was the Woodstock of the grid - everyone not sleeping for three days, running around and engaged in a kind of scientific performance art, said Dr. Larry Smarr, director of the California Institute for Telecommunications and Information Technology, who was the program chairman for the conference. The idea of lashing computers together to tackle computing chores for users who tap in as needed - almost as if a utility - has been around since the 1960's. But to move the concept of distributed computing utilities, or grids, toward practical reality has taken years of continuous improvement in computer processing speeds, data storage and network capacity. Perhaps the biggest challenge, however, has been to design software able to juggle and link all the computing resources across far-flung sites, and deliver them on demand. The creation of this basic software - the DNA of grid computing - has been led by Dr. Ian Foster, a senior scientist at the Argonne National Laboratory and a professor of computer science at the University of Chicago, and Dr. Carl Kesselman, director of the center for grid technologies at the University of Southern California's Information Sciences Institute. They have worked together for more than a decade and, a year after the San Diego supercomputing conference, they founded the Globus Project to develop grid software. It is supported mainly by the government, with financing from the Department of Energy, the National Science Foundation, NASA and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. There has been a flurry of grid projects in the last few years in the United States, Europe and Japan, most of them collaborations among scientific researchers at national laboratories and universities on projects like climate modeling, high-energy physics, genetic research, earthquake simulations and brain research. More recently, computer companies including IBM, Platform Computing, Sun Microsystems, Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft have become increasingly interested in grid technology, and some of the early commercial applications include financial risk analysis, oil exploration and drug research. This month, grid computing moved further toward the commercial mainstream when the Globus Project released new software tools that blend the grid standards with a programming technology called Web services, developed mainly in corporate labs, for automated computer-to-computer communications. Enthusiasm for grid computing is also broadening among scientists. A report this year by a National Science Foundation panel, Revolutionizing Science and Engineering Through Cyberinfrastructure, called for new financing of $1 billion a year to make grid-style computing a routine tool of research. The long-term grid vision is that anyone with a desktop machine or hand-held computer can have the power of a supercomputer at his or her fingertips. And small groups with shared interests could find answers to computationally complex problems as never before. Imagine, for example, a handful of concerned citizens running their own simulation of the environmental impact of a proposed real-estate development in their community. They wouldn't need their own data center or consultants. They would describe what they want, and intelligent software would find the relevant data and summon the computing resources needed for the simulation. The ultimate goal is a fundamental shift in how we go about solving human problems, and a new way of interacting with technology, Dr. Kesselman said. That grand vision, however, is years away, perhaps a decade or more. Dr. Smarr is the former director of the National Center for
Re: Back to slavery
Max Sawicky writes: Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment, whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion. Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical than market exchange. I am not sure I understand the significance of this. If I want to acquire a widget, what difference does it make at a theoretical level whether I acquire the widget by contracting pursuant to a purchase agreement (market exchange) or employment agreement (hierarchical firm)? I understand why transaction costs would influence how I acquired the widget, but what is the significance for neoclassical economics (or a critique of neclassical economics)? David Shemano
wto/japan/apples
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 WTO: Japan Apple Import Rules Illegal By NAOMI KOPPEL Associated Press Writer GENEVA (AP) - Japanese health rules on imported U.S. apples that include a 545-yard buffer zone around orchards and regular inspections are illegal under international trade law, the World Trade Organization said Tuesday. A panel of trade experts found that Japan's measures - designed to protect its own apple trees from fire blight - are not based on scientific evidence. The ruling was made following a complaint by the United States. Fire blight is a bacterial infection that affects apples, pears and roses. Although it poses no danger to human health, affected trees produce reduced crops and may die. It is carried between trees by rain, wind and insects and is widespread in the United States. Japan, which does not have fire blight, imposed a series of strict rules on imports of U.S. apples to ensure that they could not carry the bacteria either on their surfaces or internally. The rules include a wide buffer zone around disease-free orchards destined for export to Japan, and a requirement that the orchards be inspected at least three times during the growing season. There also are conditions on harvesting, packaging and treatment. The United States last year brought a complaint to the WTO, claiming that the restrictions are unnecessary and are preventing U.S. apple growers from selling their crops to Japan. Japan claimed that the measures are allowed under WTO rules that permit countries to act to protect humans, animals and plants from disease. The WTO panel, which consulted experts during its deliberations, found that it was extremely unlikely that mature apples with no sign of infection could harbor the bacteria. Even if infected apples did get into Japan, the panel said it was unclear that they could transmit the disease to Japanese plants. It said there was no assessment of the degree of likelihood of contamination and the Japanese had failed to look at other ways of protecting themselves from fire blight. The Japanese government has 30 days to appeal. In 1998, the WTO ruled against another Japanese health measure that required extensive tests on apples and seven other types of fruits before new varieties could be imported. 2003-07-15 17:56:49 GMT
Re: John Nichols on James Weinstein on Oscar Wilde and the Left
first, i wasn't running through the house and i didn't knock over the lamp, i don't know how it happened, really... second, i'm really not an engels contra marx person but... yes, there's a but... fe judged 'utopian socialists' moral-political philosophy via his dialectical understanding of natural sciences (particularly darwinian biology), problem is that this is either/or approach involving choice that really shouldn't be made, both are necessary but not for same purposes... one can certainly read in fe a reasoned attempt to convince folks that capitalism is bound to collapse, to be replaced by socialism...question is whether fe was saying that this was automatic/inevitable or whether people needed to be persuaded to join in and act to get rid of capitalism... doubtful that socialism will result from everything coming to grinding halt (great song by cure), was it marx or lenin (maybe both) who suggested barbarism as possibility... gramsci pointed out that emotional, moral, philosophical, rational would all be needed to get folks to act to bring about socialism (he also favored development of pre-figurative working class socialist institutions and practices in midst of capitalist society)... michael hoover
Re: John Nichols on James Weinstein on Oscar Wilde and the Left
was it marx or lenin (maybe both) who suggested barbarism as possibility... Luxemburg coined the phrase socialism or barbarism. Jim
Re: Back to slavery
Max Sawicky writes: Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment, whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion. Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical than market exchange. David Shemano writes: I am not sure I understand the significance of this. If I want to acquire a widget, what difference does it make at a theoretical level whether I acquire the widget by contracting pursuant to a purchase agreement (market exchange) or employment agreement (hierarchical firm)? I understand why transaction costs would influence how I acquired the widget, but what is the significance for neoclassical economics (or a critique of neclassical economics)? I don't think it suggests a critique of NC economics (except maybe for the fact that it took so long for NC economics to accept the idea of transactions costs). The significance for NC economics is that it means that there are many places where the pure market exchange relation -- the ideal that NC prefers -- doesn't prevail. If the transactions costs involved buying a widget exceed the benefits of (presumed) greater productive efficiency of countracting out vis-a-vis having it produced in-house, then using a hierarchy to organize in-house production will be preferred by profit-maximizers over using exchange and producing out-house. The key distinction is between production costs (actually making a widget) and transactions costs (costs of making deals, transferring property). (BTW, the latter corresponds to one kind of what Marx called unproductive labor.) This stuff isn't radical. It was developed by Coase, who's very much part of the Chicago school of laissez-faire economics. Jim
Re: Back to slavery
- Original Message - From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't think it suggests a critique of NC economics (except maybe for the fact that it took so long for NC economics to accept the idea of transactions costs). The significance for NC economics is that it means that there are many places where the pure market exchange relation -- the ideal that NC prefers -- doesn't prevail. If the transactions costs involved buying a widget exceed the benefits of (presumed) greater productive efficiency of countracting out vis-a-vis having it produced in-house, then using a hierarchy to organize in-house production will be preferred by profit-maximizers over using exchange and producing out-house. The key distinction is between production costs (actually making a widget) and transactions costs (costs of making deals, transferring property). (BTW, the latter corresponds to one kind of what Marx called unproductive labor.) This stuff isn't radical. It was developed by Coase, who's very much part of the Chicago school of laissez-faire economics. Jim == Isn't what John Commons did a form of TCE? Ian
Re: Back to slavery
Isn't what John Commons did a form of TCE? Ian --- yeah, but his transactions cost economics was more sophisticated than that of the Chicago school (at least according to Bill Tabb, whose book I'm relying on here). Jim
Joe Stiglitz
[funny how he doesn't say Economists rather than Technocrats] Don't trust technocrats Economic policies are not neutral, but ideological - and populist resistance to them is a rational response Joseph Stiglitz Wednesday July 16, 2003 The Guardian Developing countries are often advised (or instructed) to undertake reforms recommended by experts who are called technocrats and are often backed by the IMF. Opposition to the reforms is usually dismissed as populist. Countries that fail to undertake these reforms are dismissed as lacking political will, and soon suffer the consequences: higher interest rates when borrowing abroad. But many of these technocratic proposals are more often based on ideology than economic science. Technocrats can, of course, make an electricity plant work better - to produce electricity at as low a price as possible. This is mostly a matter of engineering, not politics. Economic policies are usually not technocratic in this sense. They involve trade-offs: some may lead to higher inflation but lower unemployment; some help investors, others workers. Economists call policies where no one can be made better off without making someone else worse off Pareto efficient. If a single policy is better than all others for everyone, it is said to be Pareto dominant. If choices among policies were purely Paretian - ie if no one was made worse off by choosing one policy as against another - the choices involved would indeed be purely technical. But few policy choices are Paretian. Instead, some policies are better for some groups, but worse for others. In East Asia, for example, IMF bailouts helped international lenders, but hit workers and domestic firms hard. Different policies might have imposed more risk on lenders and less on workers and domestic firms. Deciding which policy to choose involves choices among values, not just technical questions about which policy is in some morally uncontroversial sense better. These value choices are political choices, which cannot be left to technocrats. Of course, there is scope for technical analysis even when political choices are at the crux of the decision. Technocrats can sometimes help avoid Pareto inferior policies, that is, policies that make everyone worse off. The problem is that many policies advanced by technocrats as if they were Pareto efficient are in fact flawed and make many people - sometimes entire countries - worse off. Look at the litany of technocratically inspired examples of privatisation and deregulation in the 1990s. Banking reform, for example, frequently required government bailouts, leaving a few people much richer, but the country much poorer. These failures suggest we should have less confidence in the supposed skills of technocrats - or at least less confidence than they have in themselves. But there is also a more fundamental point. Democratic processes are likely to be more sensitive to the real consequences of policies, to the real trade-offs involved. Of course, some criticisms of technocratic remedies may be populist posturing, but sometimes they contain insights that ivory- towered (and usually US-trained) technocrats miss. Consider the case of Mexico, where a proposal to raise revenue by taxing food and medicines consumed by the poor was, unsurprisingly, rejected by a democratic legislature. Rejecting this proposal was not a matter of unbridled populism. The problem was with the proposal. Its advocates argued that efficiency required adopting a value added tax. Advanced industrial countries in Europe use such a tax. Developing countries, the technocrats said, should do likewise. But there is a fundamental difference between developed European countries and emerging markets: the size of the informal sector, from which VAT is not collected. This vast black economy makes VAT inefficient in most developing countries. Indeed, because VAT is a tax on the formal sector whose incomes and expenditures can easily be traced (as distinct from those of the cash-based street vendors, village enterprises and poor farmers) - VAT impedes development. Developing countries that impose VAT perversely encourage production to remain in the informal sector. But it is the formal sector that produces higher value-added manufactured goods that compete with developed countries. There are other sources of tax revenue in many developing countries that are both more equitable and distort economic incentives far less than VAT. Many developing countries lack a corporate income tax. It may also be possible to impose taxes on luxury goods (many of which are imported), thereby promoting equity without stifling growth. Economic theory supports VAT only if one does not care about distribution and if one can impose a tax on all commodities. You don't need an economics PhD to recognise that, in developing countries, you can't impose a tax on all commodities. Moreover, you should care about equity. So the next time you hear rumblings in
Re: Back to slavery
Jim Devine writes: I don't think it suggests a critique of NC economics (except maybe for the fact that it took so long for NC economics to accept the idea of transactions costs). The significance for NC economics is that it means that there are many places where the pure market exchange relation -- the ideal that NC prefers -- doesn't prevail. If the transactions costs involved buying a widget exceed the benefits of (presumed) greater productive efficiency of countracting out vis-a-vis having it produced in-house, then using a hierarchy to organize in-house production will be preferred by profit-maximizers over using exchange and producing out-house. The key distinction is between production costs (actually making a widget) and transactions costs (costs of making deals, transferring property). (BTW, the latter corresponds to one kind of what Marx called unproductive labor.) This stuff isn't radical. It was developed by Coase, who's very much part of the Chicago school of laissez-faire economics. I guess I am asking a much more naive question. Why is this an issue at all to anybody? I mean, is there anybody who disputes that transaction costs matter? I am a commercial lawyer, and commercial lawyers only exist because of transaction costs, so the existence of transaction costs is pretty obvious to me. Is there somebody out there who denies this, or used to deny this, other than for some cetis paribus mind game? David Shemano
Re: John Nichols on James Weinstein on Oscar Wilde and the Left
As far as I know, you are incorrect. Luxemburg coined the slogan, the idea was expressed first by Engels. J. - Original Message - From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:41 AM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] John Nichols on James Weinstein on Oscar Wilde and the Left was it marx or lenin (maybe both) who suggested barbarism as possibility... Luxemburg coined the phrase socialism or barbarism. Jim
Re: Back to slavery
Alfred was a couple of years older than me. He wrote: Marshall, 1920, pp. 138-9. Capital consists in great part of knowledge and organisation. Knowledge is our most powerful engine of production; it allows us to subdue Nature and force her to satisfy our wants. Organization aids knowledge; it has many forms, that of various business in the same trade, that of various trades relatively to one another, and that of the State providing security for all and help for many. The distinction between public and private property in knowledge and organization is of great and growing importance: in some respects of more importance than that between public and private property in material things; and partly for this reason it seems best sometimes to reckon Organization apart as a distinct agent of production. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 06:58:55PM -0400, Max B. Sawicky wrote: I agree that transactions costs is much in the spirit of 'exchange,' since it is based on the latter's infeasibility, but who is this NC and what does she want? Williams says Marshall posited organization as a fourth factor of production. Perelman was around then so maybe he can elaborate. Re: contracting, I'm reading Williamson because he and Coase offer an implied rebuke to the privatizers. The rational for contracting is implicitly a naive rejection of vertical integration (one form of which is a public agency that does its own production, rather than outsource). Obviously, businesslike or efficient need not entail vertical disintegration, one form of which is contracting out. My impression of the whole field of IO (and public finance) (and macro) is assorted departures from the primitive exchange paradigm. But I'll defer to the academics on that question. mbs non-existence Oliver Williamson is not quite mainstream; his stuff doesn't appear in standard textbooks, which to my mind represent the codification of NC ideology. But more importantly, my assertion was that the NC _wants_ everything to be an exchange. The fact that hierarchy is needed is seen as a failure of the market. Back when I did a survey of the NC management literature (including OW), it seemed that the main theory was that production was a collective good for the owners and the workers alike. Workers who shirked and didn't produce enough were see as free-riders who undermined the production of the collective good. OW calls it opportunism. I don't see this as very useful to capitalist management except as a source of rhetoric. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Max B. Sawicky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment, whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion. Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical than market exchange. mbs I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance to managers than neoclassical economics does. The latter wants all relationships between people to be one of exchange... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Back to slavery
Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that they maximized billable hours. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 07:19:50PM -0700, David S. Shemano wrote: I guess I am asking a much more naive question. Why is this an issue at all to anybody? I mean, is there anybody who disputes that transaction costs matter? I am a commercial lawyer, and commercial lawyers only exist because of transaction costs, so the existence of transaction costs is pretty obvious to me. Is there somebody out there who denies this, or used to deny this, other than for some cetis paribus mind game? David Shemano -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Back to slavery
Williamson et al call themeselves the new institutionalists to distinguish themselves from Commons et al. Commons did say that the transaction was the proper unit of analysis. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 07:06:46PM -0700, Devine, James wrote: Isn't what John Commons did a form of TCE? Ian --- yeah, but his transactions cost economics was more sophisticated than that of the Chicago school (at least according to Bill Tabb, whose book I'm relying on here). Jim -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Engels on socialism or barbarism
In 1848 Karl Marx and Frederick Engels argued in the Communist Manifesto that the historic fight between the oppressor and oppressed ended 'either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes'. Engels said that 'bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism'. Later Rosa Luxemburg, a Polish revolutionary working in Germany at the end of the First World War, raised the slogan: 'Socialism or Barbarism'! [She in fact quotes Engels in the Junius Pamphlet - JB]. Source of paragraph: http://www.revolutionarycommunistgroup.com/frfi/166/166_wel.htm See also: http://www.socialistviewpoint.org/oct_02/oct_02_25.html http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/authors/chadwick/excerpt.html
Re: Back to slavery
Michael wrote: Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that they maximized billable hours. They _do_ limit transaction costs... if you count resultant contractual law suits as part of transaction costs. It's a kind of mafia protection racket... Let me vet your contract, so that I don't help the other party sue you after the fact. But that's just one way of looking at it... Ken. -- The Bible is probably the most genocidal book in our entire canon. -- Noam Chomsky
Re: Back to slavery
- Original Message - From: Kenneth Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael wrote: Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that they maximized billable hours. They _do_ limit transaction costs... if you count resultant contractual law suits as part of transaction costs. It's a kind of mafia protection racket... Let me vet your contract, so that I don't help the other party sue you after the fact. But that's just one way of looking at it... Ken. == Uh oh:-) Ian
quick question
Penner's, who baptized the term mercantilism? One entry found for mercantilism. Main Entry: mer·can·til·ism Pronunciation: -tE-li-zm, -tI-, -t- Function: noun Date: 1873 1 : the theory or practice of mercantile pursuits : COMMERCIALISM 2 : an economic system developing during the decay of feudalism to unify and increase the power and especially the monetary wealth of a nation by a strict governmental regulation of the entire national economy usually through policies designed to secure an accumulation of bullion, a favorable balance of trade, the development of agriculture and manufactures, and the establishment of foreign trading monopolies - mer·can·til·ist /-list/ noun or adjective - mer·can·til·is·tic /mr-kn-tE-'lis-tik, -tI-, -t-/ adjective
Re: quick question
Smith coined the term mercantile system. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 08:57:03PM -0700, Eubulides wrote: Penner's, who baptized the term mercantilism? One entry found for mercantilism. Main Entry: mer·can·til·ism Pronunciation: -tE-li-zm, -tI-, -t- Function: noun Date: 1873 1 : the theory or practice of mercantile pursuits : COMMERCIALISM 2 : an economic system developing during the decay of feudalism to unify and increase the power and especially the monetary wealth of a nation by a strict governmental regulation of the entire national economy usually through policies designed to secure an accumulation of bullion, a favorable balance of trade, the development of agriculture and manufactures, and the establishment of foreign trading monopolies - mer·can·til·ist /-list/ noun or adjective - mer·can·til·is·tic /mr-kn-tE-'lis-tik, -tI-, -t-/ adjective -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Back to slavery
Dave S. asks why transactions costs are so important. transactions costs are only important if you're raised as the kind of NC economist with an extremely naive view of markets (i.e., a Walrasian). Jim
Re: quick question
Right but the dictionary entry is saying 1873. I'm reading a review of Heckscher's book [it's Tuesday and I don't have a tv :-)] and I'm asking in an historiographical and nominalist sense... - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] quick question Smith coined the term mercantile system. On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 08:57:03PM -0700, Eubulides wrote: Penner's, who baptized the term mercantilism? One entry found for mercantilism. Main Entry: mer·can·til·ism Pronunciation: -tE-li-zm, -tI-, -t- Function: noun Date: 1873 1 : the theory or practice of mercantile pursuits : COMMERCIALISM 2 : an economic system developing during the decay of feudalism to unify and increase the power and especially the monetary wealth of a nation by a strict governmental regulation of the entire national economy usually through policies designed to secure an accumulation of bullion, a favorable balance of trade, the development of agriculture and manufactures, and the establishment of foreign trading monopolies - mer·can·til·ist /-list/ noun or adjective - mer·can·til·is·tic /mr-kn-tE-'lis-tik, -tI-, -t-/ adjective -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 911 STUDY
Michael Perelman wrote: The lack of information available regarding 9-11 creates fertile ground for conspiracy theories. That is because a coverup is itself a conspiracy and is also presumptive evidence that at least one prior conspiracy is being covered up. Hence the liberal use of disinformation to obstruct effective investigation of that which is being covered up. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
Re: 911 STUDY
- Original Message - From: Shane Mage [EMAIL PROTECTED] The lack of information available regarding 9-11 creates fertile ground for conspiracy theories. That is because a coverup is itself a conspiracy and is also presumptive evidence that at least one prior conspiracy is being covered up. Hence the liberal use of disinformation to obstruct effective investigation of that which is being covered up. Shane Mage === Reads like and infinite regress problem common to conspiracy theories... Ian
Re: Back to slavery
Date sent: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:19:50 -0700 Send reply to: PEN-L list [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: David S. Shemano [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip This stuff isn't radical. It was developed by Coase, who's very much part of the Chicago school of laissez-faire economics. I guess I am asking a much more naive question. Why is this an issue at all to anybody? I mean, is there anybody who disputes that transaction costs matter? I am a commercial lawyer, and commercial lawyers only exist because of transaction costs, so the existence of transaction costs is pretty obvious to me. Is there somebody out there who denies this, or used to deny this, other than for some cetis paribus mind game? David Shemano There are two deeper issues involved here. As Coase pointed out in his 1937 article, if transaction costs are significant, markets are not efficient and therefore must (economically) be replaced by non- market allocation mechanisms -- what he was argueing for in the article was for the autocratic, managerial planning form of decision making. But a more fundamental issue relates to the Coase theorum itself - - that if there are NO Transaction Costs, the distribution of property rights does not matter for the efficiency (pareto optimality) of the market solution. However, if there ARE transaction costs, then the distribution of property rights becomes very important to the efficiency of the result. This is quite easy to demonstrate with realistic examples. What this does raise the vital question of the distribution of property rights to the efficiency of the non-regulated market, something that is not dealt with by nc economics and is avoided like the plague by those economists who reject government intervention in markets precisely to make them efficient. Paul Phillips
fannie mae
Fannie Mae Posts Loss Despite Business Boom By Albert B. Crenshaw and David S. Hilzenrath Washington Post Staff Writers Wednesday, July 16, 2003; Page E01 Fannie Mae reported a big drop in second-quarter earnings due to changes in the value of derivatives contracts, even though its business expanded significantly. The mortgage-finance giant also said that it will reduce its interest-rate risk and that it will be less profitable in the second half of the year. The Washington-based firm, the biggest buyer of home mortgages, said the total volume of its business -- the amount of mortgages it owns plus the value of the mortgage-backed securities it has issued or guaranteed -- grew 29 percent in the second quarter as homeowners refinanced at record levels. But declining interest rates triggered a paper loss of $1.9 billion on Fannie Mae's portfolio of derivatives. The company said its core business earnings, which exclude these paper losses, grew substantially. Fannie Mae earned $1.1 billion ($1.09 cents a share) in the three months ended June 30, down from $1.46 billion ($1.44) in the same quarter of 2002. Not including the accounting impact of the paper loss on its derivatives, which Fannie Mae uses to hedge against the risk of interest rate swings, the company said would have earned $1.86 billion in the quarter, compared with $1.57 billion a year earlier. Fannie said core business earnings better reflect the economic reality of its performance because the losses booked on its derivatives -- accounting rules require it to carry interest-rate hedges at market value -- are not realized. The mark-to-market accounting rule, since it was established in January 2001, has caused wide swings in the reported net income of Fannie Mae and its smaller rival, Freddie Mac. In the first six months of the year, Fannie earned $3.04 billion ($3.02), an increase of more than 13 percent from the same period a year ago, the company said yesterday. On a core business earnings basis, Fannie earned $3.71 billion in the first half, compared with $3.09 billion a year earlier. District-based Fannie Mae, formally known as the Federal National Mortgage Association, is a Congressionally chartered, shareholder-owned corporation that buys residential mortgages to supply cash to the nation's housing markets. The company, its profits and accounting practices have been in the spotlight in recent months as a result of the admission by Freddie Mac, a similar government-sponsored enterprise, that it improperly accounted for its derivatives and would be restating several years' worth of earnings. The companies finance their mortgage purchases by issuing debt of their own, and, as a result, must cope with the risk that changes in interest rates could leave them owning mortgages with lower rates than they must pay on their own debt. That happened to Fannie Mae when interest rates took off at the beginning of the 1980s, causing severe losses for several years. Fannie Mae uses a variety of techniques to deal with interest-rate risk, including issuance of callable debt that can be prepaid if interest rates fall and various options and derivatives that cause the duration of the company's debt to closely reflect that of its assets. Yesterday, Fannie Mae said in documents accompanying its earnings statement that the effective duration gap between its assets and liabilities has shrunk, meaning that the maturity of both its assets and liabilities are more closely matched. A wider gap means Fannie is taking on more risk from swings in interest rates. A smaller gap generally means less interest-rate risk, but potentially lower profits. The gap was as high as 10 months during 2002. The company has been working to minimize the gap and said it will attempt to keep it at less than six months in the future. The hedging that those efforts would entail could reduce future profitability, the company said. They're trading lower earnings volatility for lower income but more smoother numbers going forward, said Paul J. Miller, a mortgage banking analyst at the Friedman Billings Ramsey investment firm. To maintain a strong credit rating, we know we must . . . show a stable and predictable pattern of earnings as befits a well-managed and high quality company, Fannie Mae Chief Financial Officer Timothy Howard said in a conference call with analysts. Fannie Mae's stock closed at $69.06 yesterday, down $2.32 from the day before. The market was reacting in part to the company's prediction that as rates bottom out, its core earnings will be lower during the second half of this year than during the first half, analysts said. In addition, core earnings for the second quarter were a penny a share lower than the consensus expectations of Wall Street analysts.
Re: Back to slavery
- Original Message - From: Paul Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] But a more fundamental issue relates to the Coase theorum itself - - that if there are NO Transaction Costs, the distribution of property rights does not matter for the efficiency (pareto optimality) of the market solution. However, if there ARE transaction costs, then the distribution of property rights becomes very important to the efficiency of the result. This is quite easy to demonstrate with realistic examples. What this does raise the vital question of the distribution of property rights to the efficiency of the non-regulated market, something that is not dealt with by nc economics and is avoided like the plague by those economists who reject government intervention in markets precisely to make them efficient. Paul Phillips = To create-allocate-distribute property rights is to constitute-regulate markets. Non-regulated markets are an oxymoron. Efficiency is polysemous. Ian
more on intellectual property vs. terrorism
Here is the New York Times story http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/16/national/16TERR.html -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: more on intellectual property vs. terrorism
- Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is the New York Times story http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/16/national/16TERR.html -- = Now THAT's a conspiracy theory! Ian
