Re: KPFA and Sasha Lilley

Greetings Economists, Thanks Michael for giving me the leeway to using Sasha's name this way. You are right though and I was careless to word things this way. A flame war is far from my intent. But we all know how certain sorts of approaches facilitate that. Also Sasha I hope you feel also resp

KPFA and Sasha Lilley

oice of the left and how to build it. To my mind that is a democratic process. And requires that we treat each other as brothers and sisters, or comrades as it were in the common struggle. To take the goal as building the left and learning how to make the left strong. Agreed? thanks, Doyle Saylor

The rise of an emotion based left was Bush using drugs

Greetings Economists, It is but a small step from what CC writes: As a friend of mine in the local Depressive Support Group once observed, Just because you're crazy doesn't mean you're not also a jerk! There is no difficulty in demonstrating that Bush and his friends are one large bunch of thugs &

Re: Math

Greetings Economists, CB (Charles Brown) writes, (first), ..."Math, grammar and logic are all sets of rules on how to use symbols."... then CB writes, ..."logic is mathematical and linguistic, but I am curious on the essential distinction between linguistics and mathematics implied here."... To wh

re; leftist encylcopedia

Hello All, J.D. writes, Anyway, every once and awhile, someone suggests that pen-l produce some sort of collective project, but the prospect always seems akin to that of herding cats. The existence of the WikiPedia suggests two ideas: Doyle, Wonderful suggestion. Further Pen-L can foster debates

Re: Disability

hat I can do to communicate off list with Michael Y. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Disability

left voice on our program. Our program has been covering the budget crisis in California and how it affects funding for disabled people, but the larger impact of unemployment upon disability issues is equally important to us. Doyle Saylor

The Lighter Side of Depression

people that is being repressed. Lots to do and so little time. We are archived on the KPFA site. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Thanks Michael

Hi All, Michael as luck would have it I had to go out of town immediately after asking for some thoughts on our coverage of California budget cutbacks. I appreciate your comments. Both points of view matter to us. Both the larger question of who will be hurt and how it will affect disabled peopl

Questions about California Budget Crisis query

Hello All, Our radio program, Pushing Limits, is going to feature two budget analysts on the Schwarzenegger budget. However, our collective's budget expert is going out of town and can't co-host that night. So I thought I would ask for some economic help from Pen-L. What would you ask these peop

Re: threatened cut-backs for the disabled in California

Hello All, Quoting James Devine who forwards an article on disability cutbacks in California by the lamentable Schwarzenegger: [strangely, no mention is made concerning cut-backs of benefits for those disabled by over-use of steroids.] Doyle, Just to keep it as clear as possible, putting disabled

Re: the next wedge issue

Hello All, I am home today sick. For me, this is a sad moment. I don't look for times like this to take stands they just seem to come to me. When I was young I was assaulted many times as a queer. I didn't even know what that meant. There are certainly many people like Melvin who are in the le

Lakoff was More on anti-corruption

Greetings Pen 'Ellers, Thanks Joanna for forwarding Lakoff's interview. I've enjoyed reading Lakoff, especially on philosophy and mathematics. Lakoff argues for 'embodiment' which I think helps to clarify the many muddy arguments about cognition and dissipate the mind duality that permeates the cu

Re: internet infrastructure investment data

Greetings Pen-'Ellers, Well KGC's response was just fine. No need to pursue anything in my view, however, I found some nuggets or tidbits of Telecom stuff here and there in my notes so I'll pass it along assuming that it might find some interest for KGC. Tidbits about Telecoms from here and there

Re: internet infrastructure investment data

Greetings Pen-L, KGC writes, Oops, but, but, Clay Shirky is a bit of a moron. Doyle, Couple of things, while for you the term moron is simply a label that indicates you think Shirky is not interesting, for me as a disability rights advocate I find the term anti-disabled. If you read Stephen Jay G

Re: internet infrastructure investment data

Greetings Pen-'Ellers, KGC writes, But there is an idea floating around geekdom that the Web works (in the sense that it scales 5B+ documents, something which no one really expected) because of various purely technological ideas (most of which get attributed, inaccurately, to Tim Berners-Lee). I wa

Geomatric sensor computing environments

Hello All, I think this article on the developmental potential of geometric content for computing is interesting. I think geometric computing, making information with spatial meaning, hasn't been well developed by capitalism. Maps, street signs, cultural information based upon location suggest ho

Re: Vegatative states and neuroscience: From Hari Kumar

Hello All, Due to a computer problem I have been unable to get to the list for a few days. This is a bit old, but I would like to give my two cents. Hari Kumar wrote to Doyle (not Doug as his note says) Question: Hi Doug: I would not disagree with most of your premises. But please explain the "c

Re: Vegetative states and neuroscience

Hello Pen 'ellers, Carrol wrote, You have just given me a very good reason for what one might call pre-emptive suicide. Kill oneself before one loses the ability to communicate but not the ability to feel pain. Doyle, First I forgot to give the radio identification; KPFA, 94.1 fm in Berkeley. This

Vegatative states and neuroscience

Hello All, One of the key areas for the disabled rights movement is cognitive issues. To be clear when I use this term, cognitive, many disabled people do not use it in broad context, but to mean a specific area of disability. Cognitive for me is involvement of the brain in a disability. Schizoph

Re: What I did in the holidays

Hello Pen 'ellers, I enjoyed reading the travel journal. Reminds me of reading Sartre's novels. The writing held up through the whole piece. I myself don't think of doing art this way. This little essay did stimulate me in another direction. I am thinking about Wittgenstein and color. If one

Some economic comments on disk storage

Hello Pen 'ellers, Some interesting comments on Disk Storage from a Microsoft employee. Costs according to him. Implications according to him. Excerpted comments on; *Terabyte drives and sequential access replacing random access, *Disk delivery economics *Processors in the interface, processors

Blame Canada for making your children pirates

Hello All, The RIAA has carefully calculated how to stop the file sharing that has corrupted the youth. There seems to be loophole north of the Border. Just like prohibition the Canadians stand ready to provide a product forbidden in the U.S. This means war of course, down with the Canadians, th

Re: Micropayments and publishing on the internet

Greetings Pen 'ellers, Joanna asks, Very interesting, but is it true? I thought Apple was making some kind of money on selling tunes over the net??? me, Shirky writes indirectly in a general sense about how to consider Apple's latest net music business. His point being that media is being undermi

Homohop

Francisco. For those in the Bay Area check out this homo show! Take note Deep Dickollective observes class issues in this American Society. Doyle Saylor They're here, they're queer and they homohop. Gay and lesbian artists, long rejected by mainstream rappers, are stretching the genre&#x

Micropayments and publishing on the internet

Hello All, Clay Shirky caught my attention about a year ago. Shirky thinks about the economics of the web. In this case Shirky considers why micropayments wouldn't work. He takes into account exponents of micropayments like Scott McCloud. One facet of Shirky's claim is that content on the web i

Pushing Limits

Hi All, Our 'Pushing Limits' Radio Collective is back for the fall on KPFA radio 94.1 fm in the San Francisco Bay Area. Sunday evenings, 'Pushing Limits', goes on the air at 6:30pm to fight for disabled rights. The first, third, and fifth Sunday of every Month (Starting September 21st) we'll be t

A disappointing American Splendor

Hello All, I saw American Splendor yesterday. I enjoyed reading Pekar in the eighties in part because he focused on working class world I was embedded in, the file clerk in a big corporation, and that Pekar both felt he was a socialist, and a realist in his work. The biggest problem for the movie

Re: FW: Empire of Capital by Ellen Meiksins Wood

Hello All, Michael responds, The list costs me nothing, but some people -- especially those outside of the US -- pay a great deal to use the net. Doyle, Well costs can appear in many ways which restrict access to information. It is true that some people such as Lou also pay for the volume of thei

Re: [Fwd: FW: Empire of Capital by Ellen Meiksins Wood]

Hello All, James Devine wrote, for what it's worth, Jurriaan is new to pen-l and posts a lot of stuff that seems new to me. And then some complain that he posts too much! Jim Doyle I agree with this point, but I would like to dilate on this also. For Michael, how much people post may be directly

Re: American Splendor

Hello All, Lou's review of Harvey Pekar is another fine posting on U.S. culture. Harvey Pekar caught my attention a long time ago, 1984. Harvey portrayed himself in his comics as something of left oriented, but what I found interesting about Harvey was his eye tuned to the kind of life I've led. P

Re: Reductionism JB

Hello All, Jurriaan writes, ...The popularisation of associative, analogic thinking and rapid communication, as a substitute for systematic theoretisation, particularly in the social sciences, basically means the forward march of various forms of pragmatism as the dominant epistemic paradigm. ...

Re: Reductionism KH

Hello All, Ken Hanly writes back about Wittgenstein, then towards the bottom conflates me with Churchland. Thus Ken writes, So the claim that brains think makes some sense in our culture especially given that brains do not exist outside the body. But they do exist outside the body. You and Church

Reductionism

Hello All, Reductionism is not a philosophy as much as a practice in parts of science. However, the method has drawn substantial fire as a philosophy. I am going to examine one such attack. In this case this is an interesting wide ranging criticism of not Reductionism but of the established Neuro

Re: The Quiet American

Hello All, Louis Proyect wrote an interesting and quite good review of the recent movie, "The Quiet American". In passing LP writes: LP, While the novelist can create a deeper reality through such words, the cinematographer is somewhat limited in what he or she can do. Despite various tricks at t

Re: open-source teaching? Ref # 35137

ogy limitations to displays in monitors that makes on line book publishing not acceptable and the cost of printing compared to strictly on line Open Source projects favors established book printing practices. Thanks, Doyle Saylor Kelley remarks pasted below Kelley writes, Jim, collaborative

Re: open-source teaching ref # 35147

this happen. I think the collaborative process can be explored on the left in a very positive way. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: open-source teaching?

uggestions for the left about how to understand organizing brain work labor. thanks, Doyle Saylor http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A8014-2003Feb26?language=printer washingtonpost.com Butterfly.net Snags Game Deal With Sony W.Va. Firm, IBM Hope to Attract Millions of PlayStation Fans to Their

New KPFA Radio show on Disability Rights 'Pushing Limits'

icipant on disabled prisoners. Pen-L member Doyle Saylor will examine Web Accessibility for disabled people, and Disability and the Arts. Other programs by the collective will look at Iraq and disability and the War, Paratransit, Housing for disabled people, employment for disabled people, Anti-disab

Re: Lerner and a split in San Francisco demo Ref # PEN-L:34965

ans to address that issue in how we 'produce' brainwork. Face based communications with GPS Semantic Web systems would alter the social structure of working class organization of the planet. That applies to understanding what is wrong with Broadcast Television, front Stage presentations at mass rallies, written journals. Conversational shared information structures are important hence the recent Supreme Court case brought by Lessig in which Lessig attacked copyright laws. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Re: Re: Lerner and a split in San Franciscodemo

phasize the conversational structures that we could build. These together would massively improve the left's media communication. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: RE: RE: Lerner and a split in San Francisco demo

t. We have an upsurge happening in the United States. A fine time to consider how to make a real live left. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Lerner and a split in San Francisco demo

television. That games aren't boring and why isn't on your agenda for this discussion of feeling coming out of the left? Am I being harsh toward you? I respect you enough to bring up differences to debate, not tear you down. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Lerner and a split in San Francisco demo

y. The question of talent and originality of thought being expressed is a consequence of the manner in which thought is being produced in such events, not the failure of the U.S. left. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Peter Singer versus disability advocate in the NY Times mag

an 'share' attention with the society we are building. Though what they produce may be of an order of magnitude different from what most people want or expect. NY times article selected quotes is pasted below. thanks, Doyle Saylor http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/magazine/16DISABLED.ht

Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: RE: a slip of the Fox noose

usual you are your feisty self about any old argument, and I enjoy what you have to say if I don't agree. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Copying and Sharing files

ould like to point at some key components, Avatars built to show emotion, Social networks that minimize Testosterone (indicating hormonal shape to communication structure ignored by previous social movement) based harassment, Rapid building of groups in simple fashion, Resources and software support needed to build such communal resources, File sharing necessities in communications, thanks, Doyle Saylor

Marta Russel on Helen Keller

o teach Keller. A sense of respect for workers that Keller might have gained from her famous teacher. thanks, Doyle Saylor ZNet Commentary Coining Keller January 01, 2003 By Marta Russell Alabama has a new state quarter bearing the image of Helen Keller. To be so coined, Keller out-rated a moo

Re: a Perelman rant ref # 33593

l emphasizes that IPR requires intrusive control of people to protect the IPR. How do we effectively fight this? Thank you Michael! thanks, Doyle Saylor

On the internet role in South Korean elections

U.S. imperial dominance, and how that is managed in an internet society. thanks, Doyle Saylor In South Korea, it's the mouse that roars New breed of politician taps the country's love affair with high tech, GEOFFREY YORK writes http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGA

Re: Huck Finn ref # 33557

s real. And that is what workers solidarity is made of, the passionate connection that people form. Your review was a welcome raising of an important movie, thanks for the opportunity to debate what I think is important. respectfully, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: A feeling robot sensor for soldiers in thefield

his being a new thing for all those guys who like to wear camouflage outfits in the city street. Wear your pants down showing off your military depends terror diapers. You could have the tubes be a prominent badge of what you shared with your buddies in combat. thanks, Doyle Saylor

A feeling robot sensor for soldiers in the field

question about another typical unrealistic technology boon doggle, does emotion production technology have implications for working class structure? thanks, Doyle Saylor Feeling Blue? This Robot Knows It By Louise Knapp Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,56921,00.html 02

Re: Huck Finn ref # 33551

to forgive the high capitalist like Scorsese for their failings. There is no good reason to think that minimizing understanding passionate relationships between people is going to destroy meaning. If you want to debate that emotions are not part of 'meaning' you'll be on not very solid ground. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: extra terrestrial interventions.

And understand how the media provides those structures as well as the more understood elements of language production or words. Ultimately then to understand on the mass scale what the whole working class needs to feel ok about their organizations and movement. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Too much PC

me much in the end is so flawed I must put it down. Not to mount that hobby horse, but to move on to another rocking horse and rootin tootin six gun shooting away we go again. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Religion was Economist K Marx new ref # 33465 & 67

vement that reflects what we see in the grass roots Good Vibrations culture? I believe the key element is emotion structure and an economic analysis. Good Vibrations is a business, and thriving in a difficult time. What is happening? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: The Economist considers Karl Marx new ref # 33442

r now we continue to confront what you raised as a problem in your remark. I see the problem in my way, but the commonality we share is that emotion structure is the barrier in the U.S. to an effective left. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Re: Too much PC

k. I feel that is a positive thing for me to do. And that is a good thing. Thank you Carrol for speaking a truth to me. Doyle Saylor

Re: Too much PC

writing systems lack in regard to emotion structure that helps one understand what shapes the economic success of video games. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: The Economist considers Karl Marx new ref # 33417

I don't know much about them, but for example I read what you write about Turkey to learn more about what is really going on there. But finding a way to unite is no easy task either. Thanks for the thought. You know you would be welcome in my home. I hope if you hate me for being an American, that you could soften your heart toward me by personal contact. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: The Economist considers Karl Marx new ref # 33305

hat Socialism is about. Nor is being correct here what Socialism is about. Rather I am raising my understanding of what I read here to build a bridge of understanding both to you, and about Disability rights for all. Thanks, Doyle Saylor

Face Blindness and Emotion in social structure

ds can be taken as neutral. And a determined effort to build consciously an emotional structure to communications that reflects a socialist view. Equality, an end to racism, sexism, a full incorporation and integration of disability rights into the social framework of a global system. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: The Economicst considers Karl Marx ref # 33297

ere where disabled people have taken a stand to fight for their rights against every able bodied charge and castigation. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: finals ref # 33144

nomic analysis about communal brainwork. thanks, Doyle Saylor

The Vehement Passions, a book review

opens up the debate in ways that have been really impossible for us to consider. Most emphatically suggesting a profound depth to our minds we can once again ponder as those who debated their feelings about the Monarchy and Church in France, or in Russian, or China the ancient regimes, and Capitalism itself. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blowback

hat matters to me is to the heartfelt development of a great left. To feel we can say what we can and be heard in all the variety and energy we have. To find strength in each other. I hope you can read me as trying to build something not tear you down. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Re: Blowback

that refutes Carrol's point at all, but if you can take this up and demonstrate that stupid means something in a serious manner go for it. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Blowback

class people. And they 'feel' like a part of that rationalization of the brainwork we call feeling. That when in pain the working class says 'stupid' capitalists, and puts into the empty place holder of intense feelings some thing appropriate to working class power and systemic thinking. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Bosnia Generation Imperialist speak up in the NY Times

equire of their camp. That means the liberals have abandoned their usual role of usurping left movements. They merely criticize the 'left' as a left. thanks, Doyle Saylor December 8, 2002 The Liberal Quandary Over Iraq By GEORGE PACKER NY Times If you're a liberal, why have

Understanding and Reporting on Disability

logy and public policy structure down the road in more emails. All of this to understand how class structure is shaping lives in people who are at the 'fringes' (54 million people in the U.S. are disabled). thanks, Doyle Saylor http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=webactive/cspin/cspin

Re: Re: Forward Just say no

. society did? What does this imply for political parties? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Forward Just say no

Greetings Economists, On a private list about technology and economics I run, I had an exchange with someone in Japan about networked society. Alan has been writing for awhile about how communications technology in Japan has been well established and the cultural impact that has had. In this exch

Re: Chomsky by MP ref # 32766

lying on top of me. I chewed on his eyebrows. He rubbed his face on my mine and held my face in his hands and looked deeply in my eyes. He whispered in my ear, "Of course. I am a dyed-in-the-wool Bukharinite. Peasants, enrich yourselves!" thanks, Doyle Saylor

Geneticist: Abort the blind and disabled

Geneticist: Abort the blind and disabled By: Julie Novak November 20, 2002 Narragansett Times KINGSTON - Society might be better off if it prevents the birth of blind and severely disabled children, said biomedical ethicist Dan W. Brock at the University of Rhode Island's tenth Honors Colloquium

Re: Re: Re: Bush, moron? ref # 32618

s (people constantly attack sects on the grounds of disability issues they perceive) about cognitive disability and what a system for social change really would be like. In solidarity. Doyle Saylor

Re: Bush, moron? ref # 32618

Greetings Economists, This is a good example of how an accusation of disability which calling someone a moron is covers possibly altogether different issues. This article goes on to wallow in psychological explanation with assertions about what Bush is. For example, pathological (sociopathic) per

Rawls and Kantian thinking

ith LP about Rawls. But certainly LP makes it clear that understanding the political economy led him out of the abyss of Sich Demutigen. I have pasted below a short commentary from JKS which appears elsewhere that is interesting in regard to Rawls. Thanks, Doyle Saylor Rawls is a very dull wr

Re: ow things change ref # 32537

Greetings Economists, Jim Devine writes, I read Doyle as saying that accusing, say, Bob Barr, of having "loony" positions does not really argue against his positions and therefore is simply involves leftists talking amongst themselves (preaching to the converted) which doesn't have any obvious prog

Re: Re: Re: pc language

ns the topic of passion in useful and unexpected ways. Louis Proyect does a great job writing about various cultural phenomenon. I'll see if I can't take that example of an approach to writing about a book or movie and see if I can't do justice to this book. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: pc language

isons empty phraseology. And in particular because this has a positive impact upon disabled people fighting for their right in this time period gives all disable people the feeling that Marxists respond on a deep level to oppression and how to deal with it. thanks, Doyle Saylor

re: how things change referencing note # 32499

their systemic impact upon workers in general. Vehement feelings are not crazy but the normal range of emotion in the average person upon which their social life is based. If the right has vehement feelings about their positions we must understand how to build upon our own strong feelings. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: how things change

onies? Asylums? Is that the place to put someone who is a political enemy, an insane asylum? I mean obviously you use this lightly. Your term does not bear weight nor depth nor understanding. You use many terms lightly. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Birds of a feather

up nursing home space that aren't producing value, lets do a little surgery. What they don't know won't hurt them, besides the damage is irreversible. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Re: Re: slowing the surge to war

immense scientific establishment to make war weapons with despite the Christian Fundamentalist of the U.S. Republican party. Etc Etc Etc Etc ad nauseum. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Sociobiology in the Nation Magazine

an? JD also writes about his comments on Johnson's review, Again, I can't comment on Pinker's book. I hope that this representation is more accurate than Louis' description of Johnson's review. Doyle I don't think Johnson's review was cognizant of the science issues. Additionally as Lou speaks we don't get from Johnson the political character of Pinker's book, we are instead led to believe that the issue is merely about nature and nurture extremism called the "blank slate". thanks, Doyle Saylor

What is obvious about this election

onomy provides the left with the means to reach the masses. The war provides a means for the left to reach the masses. The disintegration of the democrats provides a means to reach the masses. That is what I think is obvious about this election. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Sociobiology in the Nation Magazine

ure of Evolutionary Theory"? It seems to me that one doesn't have to be a technical expert in these areas to have an opinion, but the need to have read a range of the literature is called for to comment in serious fashion upon Pinker's book. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Autism on the rise

d humans. We don't understand how the re-allocation of brain resources from language to other brain work could be implemented in our system as yet. We don't see the framework clearly enough of what it is that is being built in language to understand how that framework could include other kinds of brain work outside the norms of the language framework. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: speaking of autism...

urface have nothing in common. Autistics can be born anywhere in the system. It is the building of a framework of socialism that concerns us. And therefore to liberate. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: what is science? Pen-L:31265

ing that context based information structure requires that all points have factorial structure to it in an n-dimensional way. Hence spintronics offers ways of addressing at once some powerful computational problems that can't be done logically and consistently otherwise. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Columbus as prototype - after Guindon

work that we can do. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Columbus as prototype - afterGuindon

tools out there in other image manipulation programs but I don't know them. I would not send out a graphic larger than 50kb, and better to keep a graphic smaller than 25kb. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: What email lists are for

. Fourth, work like the above needs to consciously take on Accessibility for the disabled. Multimedia web based work (blogging sites are typical of this sort of direction) by people on the left needs be inclusive and aware of the disabled needs of the working class. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Re: Re: walkout

ocess not the profit motives of the bosses. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Personalities and the List

ing class. Just as the working class needs and requires national health care, so the working class needs and requires a personality and media structure commiserate with the loving world of socialism. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: McCloskey & Post-Autism

om as a doctor when the term is first invented.  That perhaps is the purpose in Medicine to label a symptom, but once associated with a disability and then used for the purpose of stigmatizing something economic is a political tool to associate something with disability in order to negate that position.  The

Re: McCloskey & Post-Autism

e dampening of economic activity which Perelman refers to as the diminishment of innovation.  However, that concept is better understood technically from the above references to evolutionary structure and in particular to the needs of language like "Joint Attention" structures.  That question restated is ;what is the relationship between material structure and knowledge and contingency' that underlies work and information exchange. thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Engels, homophobia and the left

, what sort of bonding process would be possible to liberate the working class? thanks, Doyle Saylor

Re: Stiglitz interview

iate the intelligence and seriousness that LP can bring to such efforts. thanks, Doyle Saylor

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