Re: [PEN-L] Ohioans with an Annual Income of Less Than $50,000 (48%)

Michael Perelman wrote: I agree with Melvyn that a real Democratic party would be fighting for progressive causes, but the existing one wants to win over the people and the big donors at the same time. It can't be done. The concept of a Real Democratic Party exists only in the daydreams of

Re: [PEN-L] Health Economics Question

Thanks, Paul. This is very helpful. The only empirical study of behavior and health costs that I am aware of is from a real-life experiment in which a Fortune 500 firm substantially increased co-pays for drugs and found that people with chronic conditions high cholesterol, blood pressure,

[PEN-L] Palast: KERRY WON

The best person in the entire U.S. on U.S. elections is Greg Palast (*Best Democracy Money can Buy*), cited for example by Paul Krugman of the *New York Times* before this current election. Here is Palast's statement this morning: http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=391row=0 KERRY WON.

Re: [PEN-L] Sam Smith on bad times

Sam Smith writes: Placated by Prozac In my understanding, Prozac and similar Saris don't placate. Instead, they allow people to more effectively deal with the personal reasons why theyre depressed, especially in conjunction with talk therapy. (Thats not to deny the side-effects or the

[PEN-L] Sam Smith on bad times

Oops. My clicking the wrong button on my spell-checker changed SSRIs to Saris! JimDevine, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; web: http://myweb.lmu.edu/jdevine/ From: Devine, James Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:07 AM To: 'PEN-L list' Subject: RE: [PEN-L] Sam Smith on bad

[PEN-L] morality politics

In a previous message, I cited Robert (not Wilhelm) Reichs view that the Dems or the anti-Bush people in general[*] should embrace moral argument (as opposed to policy-speak) and Michael Perelman agreed. We must be conscious that this involves moral conflict (and not just class

[PEN-L] nausea

Reich is correct. Unemployment job insecurity destroys families. Poverty hurts the fetuses that the fundies want brought into the world. ^ CB: Isn't Roe v Wade in jeopardy now ? Many of the voters are not extremists, but the Dems. give them the idea that they don't care about their

[PEN-L] getting going or getting filters

At 11:46 04/11/2004, Carl wrote: From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] GETTING THROUGH THE BAD TIMES by Sam Smith SNIP GWB's mandate-driven second term will be exceptionally unpleasant for progressives in the U.S., but there's no question that the mass of Americans will be in the mood for

Re: [PEN-L] getting going or getting filters

Excellent point! On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 12:58:53PM -0400, michael a. lebowitz wrote: At 11:46 04/11/2004, Carl wrote: From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] GETTING THROUGH THE BAD TIMES by Sam Smith SNIP GWB's mandate-driven second term will be exceptionally unpleasant for

[PEN-L] A Right-Wing Republic?

Counterpunch, November 4, 2004 The Self-Fulfilling Prophesy of Lesser Evilism A Right-Wing Republic? By SHARON SMITH George Bush barely defeated John Kerry in the Electoral College, but he won the popular vote by a sizeable margin of 4 million across the country. Republicans increased their

Re: [PEN-L] A Right-Wing Republic?

Let's drop the Nader thing. The Dems ran a poor campaign. Let's hear what we can do better, but rehashing Nader serves no good purpose. On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 12:16:24PM -0500, Louis Proyect wrote: Counterpunch, November 4, 2004 The Self-Fulfilling Prophesy of Lesser Evilism A Right-Wing

Re: [PEN-L] A Right-Wing Republic?

Carrol Cox wrote: This raises many questions to debate, but at some point leftists have to realize that the DP is their enemy, that it exists to absorb and blunt actual political activity. If such a thing existed, I might agree with you. But it's not 1968 anymore. Doug

Re: [PEN-L] A common cause in Iraq

On Nov 4, 2004, at 6:07 AM, Louis Proyect wrote: From Kerry's concession speech ...I pledge to do my part to try to bridge the partisan divide. I know this is a difficult time for my supporters, but I ask them, all of you, to join me in doing that. Now, more than ever, with our soldiers in harm's

Re: [PEN-L] morality politics

- Original Message - From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a previous message, I cited Robert (not Wilhelm) Reich's view that the Dems - or the anti-Bush people in general[*] - should embrace moral argument (as opposed to policy-speak) and Michael Perelman agreed. We must be conscious

Re: [PEN-L] A Right-Wing Republic?

I think I've read more messages from Michael not to talk about Nader than I myself have written about Nader. Michael, you'll have more success, in your own terms, if you just stop trying to limit the discussion (e.g., I wouldn't have posted this). Turning to the larger question: I, for one, expect

Re: [PEN-L] A Right-Wing Republic?

Exactly, we should be figuring out how to approach the future. Here, I am with you all the way. On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 01:27:26PM -0500, Paul Zarembka wrote: I, for one, expect a big crashing in of this fossil-fuel economy, beginning soon (I'm not prescient enough to know when). What

Re: [PEN-L] A Right-Wing Republic?

On Nov 4, 2004, at 10:08 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: Carrol Cox wrote: This raises many questions to debate, but at some point leftists have to realize that the DP is their enemy, that it exists to absorb and blunt actual political activity. If such a thing existed, I might agree with you. But it's

Re: [PEN-L] morality politics

Ian writes:My guess is that what we need is a reframing of moral argument that massively shifts the justificatory burden onto the Right: What is the justification for homophobia?... The goal of such simple questions could be directed at pointing out just how much capriciousness,

[PEN-L] Overgeneralizations

The horror of the Civil War made people more skeptical about fanaticism. At least, that is the message of Menand, Louis. 2001. The Metaphysical Club (NY: Farrar, Straus and Giroux). Supposedly, this change of mind helped to push one group of people toward progressivism and a more rational

[PEN-L] To ABB from Nader

Dear Anybody But Bush Liberal Democrats ... Let's face the facts. Our country has serious problems. The world is not doing very well. We need every source of energy inside the electoral arena to turn harmful, costly and cruel trends against billions of innocent people into just and healthy

[PEN-L] election article

http://www.blackcommentator.com/112/112_cover_election.html Better analysis of the elction. I simply don't accept the implication made by a number of left people on this list that Black voters are dumb, duped, cowardly, reactionary, don't know what's best for them, etc. Joel Wendland

[PEN-L] good read

Election Night Remarks from Campaign Manager Theresa Amato I am the campaign manager of Nader/Camejo 2004, but I am also a worker, taxpayer, citizen, and voter in the last colonial capital of the free world, known as Washington, DC, where voters do not have the same rights to statehood and

[PEN-L] Ruy Teixeira on the elections

(An interesting commentary from Ruy Teixeira, despite the foolishness of his repeated prediction that Kerry would win--a notion obviously related to his off the wall theory that the Democrats are an emerging majority. Although he correctly identifies the contradictions of the Democratic Party,

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

There's something kind of familiar about this map. http://www.learner.org/biographyofamerica/prog10/maps/ There sure is. I've commented before that I wish the northern states would finish the Civil War. Ken.

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

I see you won Ohio that time :-) -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Scanlan Sent: 04 November 2004 21:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: something familiar There's something kind of familiar about this map.

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

there really isn't anything similar. The Rocky Mountain states and a large part of the Midwest that went with the South. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://myweb.lmu.edu/jdevine From: PEN-L list on behalf of Kenneth Campbell Sent: Thu 11/4/2004 1:17 PM To:

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

Jim writes: there really isn't anything similar. The Rocky Mountain states and a large part of the Midwest that went with the South. Could you clarify that? There may be a word extra in there. Ken.

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

Carl writes: Since the south has a long tradition of militarism that the north lacks -- not to mention possession of the vast majority of military bases -- I don't think this would have quite the outcome you envision. I do not envision anything. The south is the repository of military bases

Re: [PEN-L] Sam Smith on bad times

wheels will be dropping off within two years, not just four. I think there will be a price for the support from the rest of the world. I mean it's not just about the time frame, it's about somehow some changes in the nature of politics that hopefully are more fundamental than which president is in

[PEN-L] Daily Mirror (UK)

look at this front page: http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/ Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://myweb.lmu.edu/jdevine

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

But, did not Dan's original map that started this thread show that the Rockies and related territories were slave-friendly but not slave-positive? Thought it was historically interesting. Ken. in the map of the red (Bush) states, it's not just the South, but also the Rocky Mountain states and a

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

right. but Oregon territory was larger at the time than present-day Oregon, whereas the entire Midwest was blue (anti-slavery) back then. In addition, it's important to see the reaction as more than just a bunch of (white) Southerners. there's also a lot of government-subsidized individualism

Re: [PEN-L] something familiar

Ahh, Jim... you know I agree with you. Nothing is one-dimensional. I was just having fun with Vera Cruz and all in the midst of this leftist despair. Blame it on Dan's damn map. Respectfully, Ken.