> >
> >Simply saying that one can, as Diamond does, draw a rough line accross
> >the African continent to distinguish "white" Africa from "black" Africa
> >proper. Egyptians, Tunisians, Moroccans, Libyans and others in the
> >Northern areas are "white".
>
> No. They're not. They're Mediterrane
"Good review"? I, for one, will not trust your friend again on anything!
> My friend (whose opinion I trust on just about everything) had this to say
> about the book:
>
>
> Yes, I've actually read the whole book. It's okay in some ways, but his
> geographical determinism tends to undercut his
Jim Devine wrote:
>I believe that his hatred of populism goes beyond his explicit use
>of categories. Doug has a lot of good quotes from old Rudi which
>indicate where his loyalties lie.
My two favorites, which I'm doing from memory, but they're very close:
"The best thing [about the SE Asian
>>> Chris Burford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/11/00 07:12PM >>>
At 15:14 11/04/00 -0400, you wrote:
>What's behind the debt crisis
>
>
>By Wadi'h Halabi
>The fundamental cause
>
>What is behind this phenomenon? The answer may be surprising to some. In
>the last analysis, the problem is that there
The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
more and more appears as a member of that large family of
ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
material defeats the movements of the '60s Karl and Frederi
Dear Friends:
A web site is now up and running with information, images and analysis
of
the "Water
War" in Cochabamba, Bolivia.
Massive popular struggle have just ousted the Bechtel affiliate that had
bought the water system, in a privatization program pushed by the World
Bank and corruply imp
At 09:34 AM 4/12/00 -0500, you wrote:
>The trick is to reverse cause and effect, and by attacking the effects
>(which exist purely in the superstructure of rarified scholastic dispute)
>we can soothe feelings wounded by our inability to oppose effectively the
>victories of racism and imperialis
Carrol Cox wrote:
>The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
>more and more appears as a member of that large family of
>ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
>defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
>material defeats the movements of the
>>> "Ricardo Duchesne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/12/00 10:23AM >>>
> >
> >Simply saying that one can, as Diamond does, draw a rough line accross
> >the African continent to distinguish "white" Africa from "black" Africa
> >proper. Egyptians, Tunisians, Moroccans, Libyans and others in the
> >Nor
Yes, the radical, communist term for "Eurocentrism" is "White Supremacy"
CB
>>> Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/12/00 10:34AM >>>
The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
more and more appears as a member of that large family of
ideological persuasions generally calle
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:26:58 -0400
> From: "Charles Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [PEN-L:18012] Re: guns, germs, steel
> Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The US being what it is - real paranoia over race - I guess it is be
>>> "Ricardo Duchesne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/12/00 12:42PM
The US being what it is - real paranoia over race - I guess it is better to
leave this subject untouched.
___
CB: Paranoia , in the sense of irrational and unfounded fear, is not an accurate way
to describe the US on
>
> Logically, therefore, scholars and intellectuals of color
>militantly critique books, lectures and other intellectual
>expressions that express and reflect this white supremacy or racism.
>Even liberal scholars can reflect white supremacy, such that one
>part of their work is anti-racist,
>And when they accuse anti-racist authors *whom* *they* *have* *not*
>*read* of racism, they look *really* *stupid*...
>
>Brad DeLong
Actually, nobody has charged Jared Diamond with racism, only geographical
determinism. For that matter the review that Chris Kromm forwarded made the
explicit poi
Thanks for reminding us of another progressive 'capitalist'
decision!
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
> MONDAY, APRIL 10
>
> Contact: Jason Mark, Global Exchange, 415-255-7296 x 230 or Deborah James
> 510.290.0573
>
> In a Stunning Concession to Protesters Just Days Before the Launch of a
> Nati
>>> Brad De Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/12/00 12:33PM >>>
>
> Logically, therefore, scholars and intellectuals of color
>militantly critique books, lectures and other intellectual
>expressions that express and reflect this white supremacy or racism.
>Even liberal scholars can reflect white s
I agree; anti-eurocentrism carries the danger of post-modernism. I would
add, however, not every critique of eurocentricism should inevitably
lead to post-modernism. Samir Amin has an excellent book called
_Eurocentricism_; Samir is not a post-modernist; he is a marxist; or
GAyatri Spivak, Indian
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:49:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Ketterer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Fwd: Said Lecture: April 18
Mine,
in case you have time next week, this looks
interesting...
Jim
Note: forwarded message attached.
> "eurocentrism" needs
> to be retired from our vocabulary, since it acts only to deflect
> attention from the ills it pretends to name.
> Carrol
Term 'eurocentrism' is problematic although conception that eurocentrism
is colonizer's model of world (as jim blaut, no postmodernist, calls it)
sees
>Term 'eurocentrism' is problematic although conception that eurocentrism
>is colonizer's model of world (as jim blaut, no postmodernist, calls it)
>seesm generally agreeable. Term can, however, flatten complexity of
>european culture and history that includes peripheral regions, social
>class
Nice hit-and-run job. Don't suppose you'd actually take the time to defend
your comment?
CK
- Original Message -
From: Ricardo Duchesne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 10:31 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:18004] Good review of "guns, germs, steel"
> "Good
I think, I agree with everything that Carrol says. It is a point that I
have tried to make several times, although much less elegantly.
The responses that I have seen so far seem to miss the point (in my
opinion) of Carrol's post and of Marx and Engels' critique of critical
criticism. Building
>Naming calling lets off frustration, but silencing an "opponent" is
>a pretty hollow victory. And advances the cause not at all.
>And then, there are those who delight in disrupting left discourse,
>with shouting denunciations of ill defined crimes, that the perpetrator
>couldn't possible
Lou: I think that there are two senses in which the word racism is used.
1. A belief that the world's population can be meaningfully divided into
groups, based on something called race.
2. A belief that based on that division, and an implicit system of
values, some of those groups are superior to
There are two questions here. One: Is the Asiatic Mode of Production a valid
scientific view or not.
Two: Does the concept spring from something called Eurocentrism.
The first question is important. The second is irrelevant.
Frank's effort is doomed by his inadequate grasp of history. While I di
Look, what your best friend is supposed to have said is not even a
"review", but a silly emotional reaction about agency, or whatever he
thinks that term means. And yes, in response to your personal
e-mail, waking up to another snow fall
in mid-April leaves me with little patience for a stupi
Spivak should just settle down and stop feeling guilty about her big
western salary; I mean, at least she uses some of it for her two per year trips
to India in her struggle against eurocentrism.
>
> I agree; anti-eurocentrism carries the danger of post-modernism. I would
> add, however, not
Rod Hay wrote:
>I think, I agree with everything that Carrol says. It is a point that I
>have tried to make several times, although much less elegantly.
> The responses that I have seen so far seem to miss the point (in my
>opinion) of Carrol's post and of Marx and Engels' critique of critica
Rod Hay wrote:
>Lou: I think that there are two senses in which the word racism is used.
>
>1. A belief that the world's population can be meaningfully divided into
>groups, based on something called race.
>2. A belief that based on that division, and an implicit system of
>values, some of those
The critique of eurocentrism has been around a lot longer and independently
of postmodern anything. Only those who only heard of "eurocentrism" in the
last ten years or who only know of it through pomo would emphasize a link
between pomo and the critique of eurocentrism. Much pomo itself is plen
New York Times, April 12, 2000
U.S. Labor on Offensive Against China Trade Deal
By DAVID STOUT
WASHINGTON, April 12 -- Worried that doing business with China will crowd
American workers out of the global economy, thousands of union men and
women flocked to Capitol Hill today to condemn the idea
Not so new. The separate but equal noise has been around for some time. Read
some of the late nineteenth century imperialist literature of writers like
Rider Haggard.
Rod
Doug Henwood wrote:
> Rod Hay wrote:
>
> >Lou: I think that there are two senses in which the word racism is used.
> >
> >1.
racism and race exploitation are part of capitalism. any serious
anti-capitalist struggle must deal with racism and race exploitation (and
any serious anti-racist struggle must deal with capitalism). the
anti-eurocentric project is a serious part of work to identify the
ideological support syste
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
> Spivak should just settle down and stop feeling guilty about her big
> western salary; I mean, at least she uses some of it for her two per
> year trips to India in her struggle against eurocentrism.
And wrote some classic books on neocolonialism. A
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
MONDAY, APRIL 10
Contact: Jason Mark, Global Exchange, 415-255-7296 x 230 or Deborah James
510.290.0573
In a Stunning Concession to Protesters Just Days Before the Launch of a
National Campaign, Starbucks Agrees to Offer Its Customers Fair Trade
Certified Coffee by the End
Dear Mike, Lou, Michael, and Doug:
Could you please post this? Many thanks!
Tom
===
Dear Friends:
A web site is now up and running with information, images and analysis of
the "Water War" in Cochabamba, Bolivia.
Massive popular struggle have just ousted the Bechtel affiliate that
Thank you Lou for your article about Crane World.
It happens that Pablo Trapero is a good friend of mine, a very creative 26
years old man. It has been admirable too the tenacity of Pablo in filming
this his first long film that I know from the very beginning. There is
something of the italian ne
this is quite irrelevant to the point. a lot of liberals who call
themselves marxists are writing in the magazines that benefit from the
system, and filling their pockets. most of them have secure positions in
universities. they get western salaries. this is NOT the ONLY problem of
Spivak...this
Carrol Cox wrote:
> that large family of
> ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
> defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
> material defeats the movements of the '60s Karl and Frederick
> described this sort of maneuver rather well in *The German
> Ideology*.
>>> Ted Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/10/00 07:11PM >>>
Charles Brown wrote:
> __
>
> CB: Does this contradict what I said ? Humans have a higher degree of tool
> development than animals before the "master/slave" relationship develops.
> Hunters and gatherers have much higher tool de
Ted Winslow:
>An important psychological factor in each case is "compensation" in the form
>of disguised satisfaction of motives that would generate intolerable anxiety
>if expressed and pursued consciously. The unconscious motivation is
>murderous, sadistic hate. In each of the cases above, thi
>>> Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/12/00 06:24PM >>>
Ted Winslow:
>An important psychological factor in each case is "compensation" in the form
>of disguised satisfaction of motives that would generate intolerable anxiety
>if expressed and pursued consciously. The unconscious motivation i
Mat. How do you identify eurocentrism? In my experience, in most cases,
all it indicates is that the person throwing the epithet, doesn't like
what is being said but can't articulate a rational argument against it.
Rod
--
Rod Hay
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The History of Economic Thought Archive
http://s
At 10:13 12/04/00 -0400,
[Chris]
>Quite. A typical capitalist crisis of "overproduction". That is,
>overproduction relative to the limited purchasing power of the market, and
>in particular the impoverished masses of the world.
>
>_
>
>Charles B: But what of the FROP and inability to valo
Rod Hay wrote:
>Mat. How do you identify eurocentrism? In my experience, in most cases,
>all it indicates is that the person throwing the epithet, doesn't like
>what is being said but can't articulate a rational argument against it.
Could you give a more specific example?
Doug
Louis asks:
>
> Wouldn't Prozac help?
>
It might. According to the theory, it certainly "helped" the minds that
invented it. And from the perspective of the persons treated, it's
obviously much better than a lobotomy.
Ted
--
Ted WinslowE-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
D
At 09:34 12/04/00 -0500, Carrol wrote:
> The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
>more and more appears as a member of that large family of
>ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
>defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
>material defeat
Charles Brown asks:
>
> CB: Or vigorous dancing or sports and wine ?
Yes. Much better to have neo-Nazis channeling their energies into drink,
soccer games and dance than into murdering members of visible minorities.
Ted
--
Ted WinslowE-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Divis
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: MichaelP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: INFO:Bolivia menu: Bechtel spin plus earlier piece
(Thanks JanetE)
Bechtel's response (below) reads as if they have not really pulled out
of
the privatization contract, but rather "are in urgent discussions wi
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:47:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunder Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Brenner debate? (fwd)
~~
Doug Henwood wrote:
> Rod Hay wrote:
>
> >Mat. How do you identify eurocentrism? In my experience, in most cases,
> >all it indicates is that the person throwing the epithet, doesn't like
> >what is being said but can't articulate a rational argument against it.
>
> Could you give a more specif
In a message dated 4/12/00 7:50:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< Much better to have neo-Nazis channeling their energies into drink,
soccer games and dance than into murdering members of visible minorities. >>
As someone who has seen a Brit football riot from a uncomfo
JKSCHW wrote:
>
> << Much better to have neo-Nazis channeling their energies into drink,
> soccer games and dance than into murdering members of visible minorities. >>
>
> As someone who has seen a Brit football riot from a uncomfortably close
> perspectives--if you are close enough to see it. y
>The critique of eurocentrism has been around a lot longer and
i>ndependently
>of>postmodern anything. Only those who only heard of "eurocentrism" in
>the
>last ten years or who only know of it through pomo would emphasize a link
>between pomo and the critique of eurocentrism. Much pomo itself
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist DiversionfromAnti-r
Greetings Economists,
Ted Winslow goes on at length about understanding the psychology of things to whit, then JKS replies briefly (in his briefs no doubt),
JKS,
As someone who has seen a Brit football riot from a uncom
>racism and race exploitation are part of capitalism. any serious
>anti-capitalist struggle must deal with racism and race exploitation (and
>any serious anti-racist struggle must deal with capitalism). the
>anti-eurocentric project is a serious part of work to identify the
>ideological support
G'day Ted and Justin,
Well, I've seen quite a few football mobs in my time, and, whilst a large
skinhead or 'bovver-boy' contingent was ever present, the violent mob
mentality was (a) not inevitable (it only took hold sometimes, albeit
predictably so if traditional rivals were avisiting - eg Live
>classes, marginalized and stigmatized peoples. Simplistic inversion
>positing europe as 'evil' and turning colonialist model on its head
>remains eurocentric since focus remains on Europe (and lets third
>world elites off hook). Michael Hoover
historically speaking, there were anti-imp
G'day Mine,
>as Marx said in the Communist Manifesto, working classes should
>"settle accounts with their own bourgeoisie first". Evidence is Soviet
>and Chinese communism, and other anti-imperialist struggles around
>the globe.
That's old evidence, Mine. How'd you reckon a working class re
Anti-imperialism as a strategy for socialism is dead, dead, dead. It died with
the Vietnam War. There is only one strategy that has any hope. International
solidarity against capitalism. The old wobbly slogan "World Labor Needs a Union"
comes to mind. Or the even older one of Karl and company. "Wo
[Among the steady procession of amazing articles produced by the American
Socialist in the 1950s is this two-parter dealing with the oppression of
the American Indian from October, 1956. I would love to been able to ask
either Harry Braverman or Bert Cochran what factored into their thinking
when
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