Re: Imperialist progressivism (was Re: Thatcher andnationalism)

2000-09-11 Thread Brad DeLong

Brad DeLong wrote:

On the one hand, trees and hills. On the other hand, people. On what
theory of political justice can the first ever trump the second?


Well, Senator Albert Beveridge seemed to have a fairly firm grasp of one
such. I guess it depends on which people you are addressing.

Michael K.

I'm not Senator Albert Beveridge. I don't agree with Senator Albert Beveridge.

Why are you claiming that I do?


Brad DeLong




Re: Imperialist progressivism (was Re: Thatcher andnationalism)

2000-09-10 Thread Brad DeLong

For what they are worth, my views on the Malvinas are very simple. Geography
alone would suggest that they are a part of Argentina, and I would recognise
Argentinian sovereignty.
Michael K.

On the one hand, trees and hills. On the other hand, people. On what 
theory of political justice can the first ever trump the second?


Brad DeLong




Re: Imperialist progressivism (was Re: Thatcher andnationalism)

2000-09-08 Thread Brad De Long

If, as Tam Dalyell has shown, Thatcher prepared the war in order to
win her elections...

How did Thatcher do that? Did she bribe the Junta to send troops to 
the Malvinas Islands?

Brad DeLong


The population in
the Malvinas are the result of forcible eviction, by a British fleet,
of the legal and recognized Argentinian settlement there. Argentina
has never surrendered to the joint American-British invasion of the
islands in 1833, nor have we ever denied the right of the
transplanted populations of the islands to become full Argentinians 
with due respect to their cultural traditions provided they ceased to
consider themselves a Plantation. On this, we shall be inflexible,
and in the end we shall win. This issue is a basic question for our
politics, and a good standing on the Malvinas issue may turn a rogue
into a sometimes unexpected revolutionary.

Yeah. Right. sarcasm And the Palestinian population are the result 
of the forcible eviction, by the Emperor Hadrian, of the Jewish 
population after the Bar Kochba revolt /sarcasm.

Germans today don't demand the reversal of Richelieu's conquest of 
Alsace. Americans don't demand Canadian withdrawal from the northern 
half of the Oregon Territory. Italians don't demand that the French, 
the Spanish, the Greeks, the Turks, and the Egyptians recognize their 
historical allegiance to the Roman Empire. And the world is a better 
place for it.

Consent of the governed trumps historical connection.

Brad DeLong




FYI, when Galtieri, the _majestic General_ of Haig and Reagan,
discovered that he had been trapped by his supposed friends, he
faintly discovered that in order to go ahead and win the war he had 
to mobilize the most progressive forces in the country, he had to
organize a militant national front, he had to return the basic
control of economy to the hands of the State, he had to confront in
the arena of the Foreign Debt, he had to cleanse the Army of butchers
(being one himself!), and he almost made some of those moves: in
fact, the Argentinian Foreign Relations Minister gave a 180 degrees
turn to our foreign policy, siding with Castro and other progressive
regimes that were supporting us in the effort...


So Galtieri's strategy would have worked: the domestic opposition on 
the left would have forgotten his crimes and thrown their support 
behind his regime--if only he had won his war, and so distracted 
giddy minds with foreign quarrels.

Who was it--Count Witte?--who said at the start of the Russo-Japanese 
War that the only thing the Czar's government needed was a "short 
victorious war"?


Brad DeLong




Re: Imperialist progressivism (was Re: Thatcher andnationalism)

2000-09-08 Thread Michael Perelman

The debate on the Falklands/Malvinas is troubling.  I thought the the outcome
meant that Thatcher triumphed politically, while the junta had to face political
defeat, eventually.

As to rights, such matters are troubling.  I live on property stolen from the
Mexicans who stole it from the Native Americans.  While I recognize past
injustices, I would not be happy to see either group reclaim their land.  Africa
still suffers enormously from the problems caused by imperialist borders, but
how could you rectify the past mistakes today?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]