d be comments on WHY the rounding is used/needed.
uri, an expired c hacker recalling painful issues :)
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e the trailing newline
but i didn't look carefully at it to see if that mattered. i use here
docs all the time in many places where others don't just to keep under
80 columns. anyhow, that is my $.80 worth here. ignore it at your
pleasure or peril.
back to lurking,
uri
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Uri Guttman
h dangling
if/else clauses and unless you used pythonicly strict indenting, you
were going to have them unless you used braces. the extra lines used are
easily offset by better windowing editors, block hiding, and other
things and also the reduction in bugs makes that minor sacrifice well
w
ng new under the sun or under the hood of p6. just go
with the tried and true way to handle sync and async i/o.
thanx,
uri
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e the
constant folded value of pi in the compiler and emit that float for the
init. if this gets compiled to bytecode this would really reduce the
runtime (even in BEGIN) to almost nothing.
uri
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; to the Parrot and Perl 6 project.
SV> Three cheers for Dan!
hear! hear!!
uri
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>>>>> "BR" == Bob Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
BR>Uri Guttman wrote:
>> here is an odd thought to add to that. since your hash is a single hunk
>> of ram, you could use offsets inside it instead of pointers. that means
>&g
>>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> I'm currently rewriting the hash implementation in
>> src
ointers you got back were offsets from
the base of that area. it was meant just for the ability to create
binary structures in ram that could be written/read to disk and back.
just reminiscing,
uri
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ernal resources like DB handles can work but select loops need
finer control.
in any case, i am totally for dan's decision to go with GC. it removes a
major weakness in perl's memory management. refcounting just doesn't
win in speed nor in internal complexity nor in safety of codi
code generation? JIT?) option to
optimize out debug code so it doesn't even get run if not enabled?
do we need JIT support for debugging? you can debug in bytecode and then
JIT for speed. this assumes, of course, that the JITing is correct.
uri
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hings with the same basename. and
since python is oo they would hopefully expect no imports at all (except
for maybe constants which isn't pure oo then).
or you can still pitch a fit.
uri
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LED today. :) what is amazing is how you can
actually have more physical ram today (4GB) than virtual again (on 32
bit boxes of course)! my how history repeats! :)
uri
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ve to see it wrapped in perl5 xs/swig/inline
and put on cpan (hint! :) .
supporting all those event loop flavors directly in parrot seems like
too much work.
uri
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>>>>> "DE" == David Essex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DE> Uri Guttman wrote:
>> ...
>> what about the runtime libraries for those cobols? i worked on PL/I
>> libraries and they have many similar features to cobol (as pl/i was a
>&
they have many similar features to cobol (as pl/i was a
genetic monster of cobol/algol/fortran). stuff such as isam record i/o,
picture variables, decimal math, etc are needed for a full cobol. do
those compiler provide that or are there libs provided for it? some of
the fancier compilers
>>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>>> "SB" == Scott Bronson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
SB> Has anybody inquired to the GMP project as to the possibility
&g
can't
lead it now. it would be a great way to learn some neat bcd math
tricks! :) these are classic ideas from the heyday of bcd math from the
60's.
the code is in pure c and of course since i wrote it i won't charge
parrot too much to licence it :)
this is about 700 lines of code inc
>>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> At 4:21 PM -0400 5/28/04, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> i am not against having a sync api but as dan said it should be a
>> wrapper around the async stuff. but as we agree (and dan hasn
>>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> this is another reason to drop seek/tell as separate ops and just add a
>> seek offset as an arg to the i/o ops. tell is useless in t
calls on a single handle is likely
to be very ugly regarding seek positions.
this is another reason to drop seek/tell as separate ops and just add a
seek offset as an arg to the i/o ops. tell is useless in the aio
world. the user code needs to manage its own seek location and pass it
into each cal
is there a paypal PMC in the plans? will it be multi-accounted? will it
have built in auth support? what about rounding errors?
uri
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DS> un_read Pfilehandle, Pdata
DS> Undo a read request, pushing Pdata back onto the filehandle. (Note
DS> the _ in the op name)
any max size of that call or total amounts you can push back? if the
data was from a file can it be just discarded and a seek pointer moved?
that fails if
sync I/O. leo, can you fix this ASAP?
uri
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re of slurping but source and config files are rarely ever
going to be a problem. it is logs and genetic data files that you have
to worry about :)
uri
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d never use the absolute timer in parrot since i couldn't trust
it any more than i can trust a repeated interval timer. but while i can
synchronize interval timers to the real clock, i can't adjust a
miscalculated absolute timer.
uri
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t; clarify. who 'notes'?
DS> Posts an event of the specified type to the event queue of the target
DS> interpreter.
>> maybe call it 'check_event'? how is this different
>> than post_event?
DS> No PMC handling. It means that whatever code
you can ONLY wait for that group. what if you wanted to know
when group A events are all done and also when group B events are all
done? and what if you have other single events floating around? rarely
do you just have a single group of events to wait for.
my solution works with any combination of
call this a scatter (start the
async actions) and gather (collect their done flags) operation.
this is best done at a user level. let parrot handle each event
individually. there is no major benefit to parrot doing this for you IMO
as it is not system level at all.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [
you could have a mix of float delay and integer interval but that just
makes 4 signatures.
DS> C Interface
DS> ===
DS> Because many events are actually generated from within C code, the
DS> following API is exposed for use:
DS> INTVAL Parrot_ping_event(Parrot_Interp I
t in my event world! :)
writing a multi-listen socket server with time delayed responses and
custom response code in only 4 subs/callbacks is my event world. :) i
want parrot to have such a nice event api that it will heavily influence
the p6 event api.
uri
--
Uri
ain thing is an
object. wrapping an object and an id in a higher level thing makes
calling the object harder.
in parrot you would pass in a structure which had the object, the
method, and the id (and more?). but that wrapper layer has to handle
generic callbacks and then redispatch to the act
he
unique id but that means the handle/id is not meant for printing and
makes it harder to debug. a string id can be used to tie multiple event
and related things in the object together while a handle id is tied to
the single event.
i have running p5 code which uses this style
en
enough to deserve its own fpu instruction and library entry.
uri
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>>>>> "C" == Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
C> How about some variation on "create"?
just please make sure it has the missing 'e'. :)
uri
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other langs we want to support
(other than c) have a scanf flavor in them?
uri
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ail reader.:)
most decent ones can do threading by subject or reference headers.
uri
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}
],
'type' => 'char'
}
],
'pack' => 0,
'align' => 1,
&
>>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> i am playing with ExtUtil::XSParser now
ed properly in the docs and i
had to scan the source to make it work. also the P:RD parser doesn't seem
to return a parse tree but some ok (1) values. any help would be
appreciated. i mainly need the c struct parser to give me a tree and i
can do the rest.
thanx,
uri
--
Uri
;d like to shoot for a Feb 14th release. Names wanted. (I'm
>>> partial to the bleeding heart release, but not that partial)
>>
>> I had planned towards Feb 29th. A nice dated too this year.
DS> Works for me.
then how about calling it the bleaping release? :)
y be the same as when that struct is
top level so you can't cheat there.
it sounds like between the PIR solution and the cpan module that i don't
need to do my own hack. or should i still work on it? it would be an
external perl5/c solution that would be able to generate some f
to assume some simple format
and not full c for the moment. the only thing needed by the parser is
all the member names.
uri
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ot but the overall setup and test stuff should be
useful to you.
uri
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be with us but that spirit and those words of defiance and resolve
continue."
Charlie's story is in this month's Jack Magazine, on sale Thursday.
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ascending
DS> address order. When the mutexes are released they are not required to
DS> be released in any order.
why the ascending address order to grab mutexes? is this to help solve
deadlocks?
uri
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string key thingy. i did plenty of that pseudo
multidim hash crap in my perl4 days. :) we have the technology to build
real hash tress so let's use it as it is the natural way a symtree
lives. going with a single key of a joined string doesn't seem to have
any benefits. i can't even see it being so much faster. also we can
always cache lookups in a single string hash for speedups.
uri
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echo those congratulations.
shouldn't that be production use? i don't recall ever hearing about a
non-commercial but production use of parrot. anyhow, that is something
that needs to be publicized somehow. parrot squawks in real life, code
at 11!
uri
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event loop and async i/o (which
will prolly use kernel threads (according to dan) but not be parrot
threads ) ) (end of lisp text) :-/
uri
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>>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> At 11:49 PM -0500 1/3/04, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> >>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
DS> (This is one of those cases where I
the most vicious
DS> threading enviroments ever devised, but alas that's not going to
DS> happen. Pity, though)
single cpu lsi-11's running FG/BG rt-11 doesn't count? :)
it was a dec product too! :)
uri
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>>>>> "JC" == Jeff Clites <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
JC> On Jan 3, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> that could be workable and might be faster. it does mean that locks
>> are two step as well, user space test/set and fallback to kernel
>>>>> "EM" == Elizabeth Mattijsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
EM> At 12:15 -0500 1/3/04, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> >>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> These are platform specific details. We
>>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>>> "LT" == Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LT> These are platform specific details. We
talking CPU specific or OS specific
EM> here? If OS specific, but still on Intel, it still is some set of
EM> machine instructions at some level that could be borgified. Don't tell
EM> me Redmond has the monopoly on using some of the Intel x86 machine
EM> instructions?
a combi
the mainline source look better but you still need kernel
calls in their definition.
uri
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t of the
NS> core ideas by way of a proof-of-concept, but it will be some time
NS> before this is demonstrable.
NS> I fully appreciate that I am late to the party and it may be too
NS> late to consider altering the design of Parrot to accommodate
NS> these ideas.
NS&g
hing since a kernel stack only needs a pointer and a few
registers to be swapped vs a larger and more complex swap with VM coros.
you have addressed many issues here and i think that is what dan
wanted. i hope i clarified some of them and explained why there are no
simple answers. we have to bite some performance bullets somewhere due
to the very lofty functional goals we have set. the key is to keep the
design and api clean and as elegant as possible while keeping up the
performance. and almost all of this is moot in a pure event system which
is why i like them better than threads. :)
uri
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tiresome and I'm going to start getting viciously
DS> rude about it.
just don't start to pluck your (or parrot's) feathers. :)
lightening things a little i hope,
uri
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or this human neurotic disease). :)
uri
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e remained so because they bumped against this ceiling.
again, threading is not the only answer there. if you want perl/tk, you
need to get into events and their pluses and minuses.
uri
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>>>>> "JC" == Jeff Clites <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Dec 23, 2003, at 4:08 PM, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> but it is (just about) one time only work and will save tons of
>> repeated tricky work down the line for those who will embed c libs
in my other reply, handling hashes is a big
issue and that can't deal will all possible cases (while you can deal
with most of the cases for arrays).
uri
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ave parrot level threads as well. how
efficient those threads are vs. a single thread in parrot is one of the
issues on the table.
uri
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a solid
event loop and real async file i/o (which dan will deliver). then you
can solve things like this even faster than with parrot level threads.
just plugging events,
uri
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it won't cover all possible things
but enough common ones so we don't have to reinvent that wheel each
time. and array (and basic hashes) are common enough to deserve support.
we do want to make interfacing to c to be a breeze and not the pain it
is now.
just opening a jumbo can o
o perl5 core in 5.10 i believe. and there is a makefile.pl
compatibilty call-through mode as well.
uri
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AND XML formats need!) which don't (or may not) get parsed again.
uri
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the freeze/thaw calls made by the tree traverser code. so the
xml header is just a way to mark which external class will be used for
the freeze/thaw and it will always be called for each object in the
tree. you can't mix/match different freeze/thaw techniques in one
operation (yes, yo
>>>>> "AK" == Amir Karger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
AK> --- Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>>> "AK" == Amir Karger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> the designs range from a total co
at header stuff. But I'm itching to
AK> actually start typing stuff, so maybe I'll just jump in headfirst!
when you get into zcode specifics, i am outa here since i know nothing
about it. i was just helping with the big picture and overall design for
a bytecode translator. my ideas
n the
registers and with arrays which would mean both parrot ops and your own
ops would be able to access them.
hope this clarified the issues,
uri
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de to a global mutex vs the nastiness of
deadlocks and handling them. the mutex means no difficult coding issues
and it can handle all the different (i agree with dan and vote for one
common scan iterator) possible scan iterators.
uri
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ed as you were. and note that it
was o'reilly's decision on how they did the book and they are not
parrot.
so if that helps salve your wound, i am sure you contributions (past and
future) to parrot are welcomed and appreciated by the parrot community
(pretty much those on these l
>>>>> "VL" == Vladimir Lipskiy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> I've committed a würgaround.
VL> LMAO!
i get the english side of the pun. what does the german(?) side mean?
uri
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ly get
triggered/callback'ed when that queue gets flushed by the special op
code.
uri
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ecause of parrot's availability.
that is a major win since no other system i (or dan) has heard of has
portable async file i/o. and it will be integrated into the core event
handling so you will be able to mix and match async socket, terminal (on
unix at least) and file i/o with timers. this
>>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> At 6:17 PM -0400 7/3/03, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> >>>>> "TB" == Tim Bunce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
TB> Has any other language learnt to swim well in thes
ndex.cgi?ParrotBOF
i updated that to add an async i/o bof at lunchtime on wednesday.
contact me or email p6i if you want to be in this bof. we can pick a
local cafe or bistro near CNAM to meet.
a bof at oscon will also be useful as not many will be going to both.
thanx,
uri
--
>>>>> "TB" == Tim Bunce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
TB> On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 05:10:23PM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> >>>>> "AB" == Alan Burlison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
AB> Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
and make them safe for camel caravans. :)
thanx,
uri
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hink they have proper signals at all.
uri
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(that you generate as you codegen). later to
execute you just scan your own flow tree (that is the basic interpreter
engine), call each parrot sub (BASIC statement)in turn and let parrot
to the real work in each statement. BASIC calls and returns are handled
with munging the global BASIC PC and th
ial file creates a zero-initialized
unnamed memory object of a length equal to the length of the
mapping and rounded up to the nearest page size as returned
by sysconf.
linux says nothing about mmap on /dev/zero in either man page.
uri
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n a single scroll which is called a
megillah. the torah (5 books of moses) on the other hand is written on a
double scroll where you wind up on one spindle and unwind from another
spindle.
so megillah really just means a type book and is used colloquially as i
did above.
uri
--
Uri Guttman
s needed is a OWNED/DELEGATED
hash with the method/delegated mappings provided by perl6. then that map
(if it exists) is checked before any other method lookups are done. this
is all i see that is needed to support proper delegation and it is
pretty much what damian's module does now
>>>>> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> At 1:52 PM -0500 3/9/03, Uri Guttman wrote:
DS> is done with a "PARENT" property on the
>>
>> on the what?
DS> The delegated object. D'oh!
DS> So if
both the is and does list--personally I'm thinking we should
DS> pre-populate the method table for a class since we're going to do
DS> notifications, but we can defer that until later.
what about 'has'?
uri
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,apply, compile,complex,xrange, etc...) or
PH> will the php script have the usual myriad of php functions
PH> available (all 5000 of them)? I guess when I'm in a php or python
PH> context, I'd want things to feel like a php or python context...
PH> Maybe each language
es like dyn_attr and stat_attr.
but where they are stored is also an issue. are they instance specific
or class only? there are several combinations of those features too.
uri
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non-zero is found. (Change constants to taste.)
it is the old space/time tradeoff. a 64k table can do this in one lookup
and no loops so it should be fastest (excluding cache hit issues and
such).
uri
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nuations and coroutines will be in perl6. but i wouldn't bet
larry's life on it. :)
so my take is to make the stacks support them.
uri
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be cast to int or string. should that be in
parrot or done at the language level and only int/string/reg are parrot
level keys?
uri
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>>>>> "PC" == Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
PC> Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> but lisp dotted pair actually only can hold scalars in each node
>> too. each node could be a pointer to other stuff or a va
ou have to stop thinking c++ (which will
probably NOT be directly supported by parrot) and think perlish (or
as other dynamic langs) more. perl doesn't have a delete thing and
doesn't need one. it can detect DoD on its own and then let parrot GC
them later. memory usage and obje
h owns another PMC (the perl value).
just to clarify, a PMC would have to have any scalar value AND a pointer
to another PMC to be a pair. this shouldn't be a major change but that
PMC pointer is not a proper value of the first PMC but its pair. you
still need a scalar value in the first P
scheme pairs to map nicely onto perl6 pairs. this implies that pairs
should be supported directly in parrot since you can do many
optimizations knowing the array has only 2 elements. maybe even support
some car/cdr depth variations? i don't see any perl use of cddar but who
knows?
uri
-
7;foo';
J'P> We copy the 100,000 byte string to $a, $a gets $b and $c as dependents,
J'P> and $b and $c accept $a as their master. Far less work. You like?
why even copy the string even once? just set $a to point to the buffer
that $x had and then do the rest. maybe c
ter,
sd->refdata);
}
Parrot_croak("PANIC: Parrot_scalar_get_integer");
return 0;
that is starting to look okay now. some extra horizontal white space
helps too IMO.
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROT
i-unionists out there but this does solve the
massive casting problems and lets the compiler do more type checking.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
-- Stem is an Open Source Network Development Toolkit and Application Suite -
- Stem and Perl
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