The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 10/22 at 1pm PDT

"All types of knowledge ultimately mean self-knowledge." -- Bruce Lee (1971) The Raku Study Group October 22, 2023 1pm in California, 8pm in the UK An informal meeting: drop by when you can, show us what you've got, ask and answer questions, or just listen and lurk. Perl and programming in

Re: Raku IO IceDrive bug

On 10/16/23 06:54, Ralph Mellor wrote: if not FileExists( $WanIpFileName ) { $WanIpFileName.IO.open(:w); spurt "$WanIpFileName", "New File Opened"; } Afaik, depending on how you choose to look at things, there's a doc error (doc for `spurt` doesn't mention that it opens the file

Re: Raku IO IceDrive bug

> if not FileExists( $WanIpFileName ) { > $WanIpFileName.IO.open(:w); > spurt "$WanIpFileName", "New File Opened"; > } Afaik, depending on how you choose to look at things, there's a doc error (doc for `spurt` doesn't mention that it opens the file it's spurting to), and/or behavior due

Raku IO IceDrive bug

Hi All, Windows 10 22H2 Windows 11 22H2 RakudoMoar-2023.09.01-win-x86_64-msvc.msi https://github.com/AntonOks/rakudo-star-win/releases Note: zef requires git An IO bug with Windows Ice Drive to report. (I no longer report them the the bug reporter as I have zero luck.) Ice Drive is a cloud

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 10/08 at 1pm PDT

"[Steven Mithen] describes the cultural revolution that took place about 40,000 years ago and that introduced complex multi-part tools and the elements of higher culture, including art, religion, and more complex forms of social organization. How to account for this explosion of

Well, this is disappointing.

A little while ago I developed a Raku program to look up file ownership in a Github CODEOWNERS file. My first attempt worked by converting the glob-like CODEOWNERS patterns into regexes, eg: app/views/**/*.rb --> /^ 'app/views/' [<-[/]>+]* % '/' '/' <-[/]>* '.rb' $/ Surprisingly, this approach

Re: What does `:_` and/or `:_:` signify?

The code tried to do the same with `dd` as with `say`. There are two differences: * `dd`, as a kind of debug tool, doesn't assign any special meaning to named arguments so it's more than willing to give a Pair back with a colon syntax representation even if was understood as a named

Re: What does `:_` and/or `:_:` signify?

Hi Marton, Thanks for the reply. Below last example (in the REPL), does `dd` not work on Pairs? Or is this Indirect Object Notation at work? [3] > :_ _ => True [4] > dd :_ :_ Nil [5] > dd _ ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling: Undeclared name: _ used at line 1 [5] > dd :_: No such method

RE: What does `:_` and/or `:_:` signify?

Hi Bill, :_ is a Pair with the colon syntax that stands for "_" => True. In the first case, it got passed as a named argument and say ignored it. The second case was a method call using the colon syntax - the syntax lizmat challenged not so long ago.

What does `:_` and/or `:_:` signify?

Hello, While playing around in an attempt to define new operators, I stumbled upon some curious results. In the REPL, trying `say :_` returns a blank line. In the REPL, trying `say :_:` returns `_ => True`. What is the meaning of this? admin@mbp ~ % raku Welcome to Rakudo™ v2023.05.

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 09/24 at 1pm PDT

"Don't move your feet until the next beat comes-- One of the laws says pause between, Though I would hate to make the game seem mean ... Listen now to the sound of the Drum-- And don't forget we're nothing yet but water." -- "The Drum" (1974) by Slapp Happy The Raku Study Group

New search for Raku documentation page

Hi everyone, A new search facility has been developed for the Raku documentation site. It would be useful to get some feedback. The new search can be tested at 'https://new-raku.finanalyst.org'. Try clicking on the 'i' button next to the search panel for information. The search interface

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 09/10 at 1pm PDT

Dashiell Hammett, "The Dain Curse" (1929): "Nobody thinks clearly, no matter what they pretend. Thinking's a dizzy business, a matter of catching as many of those foggy glimpses as you can and fitting them together the best you can. That's why people hang on so tight to their

Raku Conference date about to be announced

Hi, for those of you not paying close attention to Reddit or the Telegram group of the Raku Conference - Andrew Shitov has already proposed a date for the conference this year: https://www.reddit.com/r/rakulang/comments/15y82fq/the_raku_conference_2023_date/ Feel free to share your thoughts

Reminder about RakuDoc

A quick reminder to this list that comments are open for the RakuDoc revision. The document can be see at https://github.com/Raku/RakuDoc-GAMMA Other information about the process can be found in the README Richard aka finanalyst

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 08/20 at 1pm PDT

"A choice architect has the responsibility for organizing the context in which people make decisions. ... There are many parallels between choice architecture and more traditional forms of architecture. A critical parallel is there is no such thing as a 'neutral' design. ... As good

Slow???

Hi All Fedora 38 $ raku -v Welcome to Rakudo™ v2023.06. Implementing the Raku® Programming Language v6.d. Built on MoarVM version 2023.06. Has the compiler gotten really, really, really slow lately? What normally takes 8 seconds is now dragging on for minutes, $ raku -c GetUpdates.pl6

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 08/06 at 1pm PDT

"Perseverance of one's own culture does not require contempt or disrespect for other cultures." (Commonly attributed to Cesar Chavez) The Raku Study Group August 6, 2023 1pm in California, 8pm in the UK An informal meeting: drop by when you can, show us what you've got, ask and answer

Re: Raku regex assert doesn't match

On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 5:21 AM Darren Duncan wrote: > > match this pattern initially, but > > fully declarative Do you consider `> .*` to be declarative? If so, what about: ``` my token nonquoted_alphanumeric_text { <[ A..Z _ a..z ]> <[ 0..9 A..Z _ a..z ]>* & >

Re: Raku regex assert doesn't match

Hi Darren, Glad that's useful. FYI, I was trying to get you an answer using the `&&` Conjunction method as well, but fell short because you want to filter out certain literal words (i.e. negation). That's why I simplified your regex pattern to ` + `. I trust you know your specifications.

Re: Raku regex assert doesn't match

Thank you William, that boolean condition check option looks like it is in the direction of the answer I sought. FYI, the reason I spelled out the character class explicitly rather than using "" was because I wanted it strictly applied to ASCII chars and not everything Unicode considers a

Re: Raku regex assert doesn't match

Hi Darren (and Marcel), Two different approaches: https://docs.raku.org/language/regexes#Conjunction:_&; >From the docs: *"For example if you have a regex quoted that matches a quoted string, then `/ && <-[x]>* /` matches a quoted string that does not contain the character `x`."* Second

Re: Raku regex assert doesn't match

On 30-07-2023 06:21, Darren Duncan wrote: Hello, I have a Raku regex question. See the following:     token nonquoted_alphanumeric_text     {     >     <[ A..Z _ a..z ]> <[ 0..9 A..Z _ a..z ]>*     } What I want is for "nonquoted_alphanumeric_text" to match any simple ASCII bareword

Raku regex assert doesn't match

Hello, I have a Raku regex question. See the following: token nonquoted_alphanumeric_text { > <[ A..Z _ a..z ]> <[ 0..9 A..Z _ a..z ]>* } What I want is for "nonquoted_alphanumeric_text" to match any simple ASCII bareword EXCEPT a few special cases indicated in the

Raku Study Group, 07/23

Hey, anyone looking for a Raku meeting? "My brain hurts!" -- Gumby The Raku Study Group July 23, 2023 1pm in California, 8pm in the UK An informal meeting: drop by when you can, show us what you've got, ask and answer questions, or just listen and lurk. Perl and programming in

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 07/09 at 1pm PDT

>From David Byrne's "How Music Works" (2012): "I had an extremely slow-dawning insight about creation. That insight is that context largely determines what is written, painted, sculpted, sung or performed. That doesn't sound like much of an insight, but it's actually the

Re: A question on AND

> On 30/06/2023 06:06, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: >> if @*ARGS.elems > 0 && "@*ARGS[0]".lc eq "debug" {...} On 6/30/23 02:40, Richard Hainsworth wrote: I tried this and it worked without any problem. And today is is working for me as well without a problem. I must have had

Re: A question on AND

my $answer = $choice_1 or $choice_2; # this is wrong it turns into (my $answer = $choice_1) # or $choice_2 > there $choice_2 is only evaluated if the $answer got assigned a false value, and then it gets evaluated in void context, discarding its value. > Try this in Raku - what does it say? Do

Re: A question on AND

@a = @b || @c; # this is wrong @a = scalar(@b) || @c; # really meant this "or" doesn't help with this either @a = @b or @c; # this is wrong (@a = scalar(@b)) or @c; # really meant this - @c never is assigned to @Helen Block

Re: A question on AND

I always took [1] As alternatives to "&&" and "||" when used for control flow, Perl provides the "and" and "or" operators (see below). The short-circuit behavior is identical. The precedence of "and" and "or" is much lower, however, so that you can safely use them after a list

Re: A question on AND

And then nobody mentions that `and` has low priority. Try `say 42 & 13` and `say 42 and 13`. Best regards, Vadim Belman > On Jun 30, 2023, at 9:45 AM, yary wrote: > > Most of Richard's parting suggestions I understand & agree with, but not > this: " why are you using '&&' and not 'and' " >

Re: A question on AND

Most of Richard's parting suggestions I understand & agree with, but not this: " why are you using '&&' and not 'and' " My habit (from Perl 5 days) is to use && || for expressions, and reserve "and" "or" for "do this if assignment/function call without parens succeeds/fails" – is there a

Re: A question on AND

I tried this and it worked without any problem. Here's the whole program: use v6.d; say @*ARGS.raku; if @*ARGS.elems > 0 && "@*ARGS[0]".lc eq "debug" { say 'got' } and at the terminal: $ raku todd-test.raku debug --debug=50 ["debug", "--debug=50"] got FWIW why are you quoting ARGS? The

A question on AND

Hi All, This gets the finger wagged at me for a "Nil" when @*ARGS.elems equals zero: if @*ARGS.elems > 0 && "@*ARGS[0]".lc eq "debug" {...} I have to do this instead: if @*ARGS.elems > 0 { if "@*ARGS[0]".lc eq "debug" {...} } Do I misunderstand something? In an AND, is not the

Re: Strange behavior with sequence of functions

> On Jun 29, 2023, at 12:21, Sean McAfee wrote: > > I was trying to construct a sequence of functions using the sequence > operator, and encountered some very puzzling behavior. I was able to reduce > it down to some very simple examples. > > [1] > my @s = +*, -> { } ... * > [...] > [2]

Strange behavior with sequence of functions

I was trying to construct a sequence of functions using the sequence operator, and encountered some very puzzling behavior. I was able to reduce it down to some very simple examples. [1] > my @s = +*, -> { } ... * [...] [2] > @s[0] Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0 in

Tip: my keeper example of qqx and match

Hi All, I wrote myself a nice example of how to use `qqx` and `m:` (match). It is pretty simple, so it is probably "way under" the heads of most of you. But it is a nice example for beginners: Notes: resplendence.com is the home of "Who Crashed": a great utility for Windows users.

Re: Is this a regex bug?

On 6/20/23 13:32, Bruce Gray wrote: On Jun 19, 2023, at 18:50, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: Hi All, Fedora 37 RakudoPkgFedora37-2023.05.01.x86_64.rpm https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases The `/$0$1 $2/` is not coming out correct. Is this a bug or did I do something wrong?

Re: Is this a regex bug?

> On Jun 19, 2023, at 18:50, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users > wrote: > > Hi All, > > Fedora 37 > RakudoPkgFedora37-2023.05.01.x86_64.rpm > https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases > > The `/$0$1 $2/` is not coming out correct. > Is this a bug or did I do something wrong? --snip-- # Is

Raku's `=finish`takes place of Perl's `__DATA__`

Thank you, Richard! I was looking for the Raku equivalent of Perl's: `__DATA__`. Thanks to you I know now, it is: `=finish` (in/from Raku's POD6 Specification). Best Regards, Bill. PS Now, if we could just get brian d foy to blog about "Stupid `=finish` Tricks" !!

Is this a regex bug?

Hi All, Fedora 37 RakudoPkgFedora37-2023.05.01.x86_64.rpm https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases The `/$0$1 $2/` is not coming out correct. Is this a bug or did I do something wrong? Many thanks, -T $ curl -L http://vpaste.net/pxRm6 -o - #!/bin/raku print "\n"; my Str $x =

Re: Need regex in the middle wildcard help

On 6/19/23 07:39, Richard Hainsworth wrote: HI Todd, Some more clean up: On 19/06/2023 12:41, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: This is my test program: #!/bin/raku print "\n"; my Str $x = Q[href="wike-2.0.1-1.fc38.noarch.rpm">wike-2.0.1-1.fc38.noarch.rpm 27-Apr-2023 01:53  143K] ~    

Re: Need regex in the middle wildcard help

HI Todd, Some more clean up: On 19/06/2023 12:41, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: This is my test program: #!/bin/raku print "\n"; my Str $x = Q[href="wike-2.0.1-1.fc38.noarch.rpm">wike-2.0.1-1.fc38.noarch.rpm 27-Apr-2023 01:53  143K] ~

Re: Need regex in the middle wildcard help

On 6/19/23 03:03, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: On 6/18/23 05:38, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: Hi All, I know how to do this with several regex's and words. What I'd like to learn is how to remove something from the middle with regex using a wild card. And I can't figure it out

Re: Need regex in the middle wildcard help

On 6/18/23 05:38, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: Hi All, I know how to do this with several regex's and words. What I'd like to learn is how to remove something from the middle with regex using a wild card. And I can't figure it out #!/bin/raku print "\n"; my Str $x =

Subject: Re: Need regex in the middle wildcard help

References: Try something like this, perhaps: $x ~~ s:i/ ^ (.*?) '' .*?

Need regex in the middle wildcard help

Hi All, I know how to do this with several regex's and words. What I'd like to learn is how to remove something from the middle with regex using a wild card. And I can't figure it out #!/bin/raku print "\n"; my Str $x = Q[wine-7.12-3.fc37.i686.rpm23-Jul-2022 19:11 11K print "1

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 06/18 at 1pm PDT

"The modernist architects and urban planners declared that 'less is more,' to quote the famous twentieth-century architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe, streamlining designs to the point of turning cities into exercises in geometry and repetition, with an endless succession of avenues, street blocks,

Re: Tip: Rakudo-2023.05.01 upgrade issue

On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 1:26 AM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users mailto:perl6-users@perl.org>> wrote: Hi All, Fedora 37 RakudoPkgFedora37-2023.05.01.x86_64.rpm https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases I just up graded to

Re: Tip: Rakudo-2023.05.01 upgrade issue

Pretty sure this is the problem: Failed to create directory … with mode '0o777': Failed to mkdir: Permission denied Not the pkg. Possibly the dir was root owned, say, and the install was being run by a non-root user. On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 1:26 AM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users <

Tip: Rakudo-2023.05.01 upgrade issue

Hi All, Fedora 37 RakudoPkgFedora37-2023.05.01.x86_64.rpm https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases I just up graded to 2023.05.01 and nothing pl6 worked. Upon investigation: $ GetUpdates.pl6 ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/linuxutil/./GetUpdates.pl6 Failed to create directory

Re: Rust community in distress

Depending on how many would leave the original product, the pace of development of both could be slowed down by a factor of 2 or even more. That's technically correct (which, after all, is the best kind of correct, https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/909991-futurama ). But while the pace of

Re: Rust community in distress

There is a fork, already. At least, this is what he says in the video. There is a catch though, and it is mentioned in the video too. A few catches, actually. First, such conflict-based forks cause harm to project reputation. Second, it confuses potential supporters and this could reduce

Re: Rust community in distress

The video is less than 10 minutes long, its not that much effort to watch. The TL;DW is some bad stuff happened but some things are improving after. -- Darren Duncan On 2023-06-09 12:26 a.m., Veesh Goldman wrote: Could I get a TL;DW on that video? I love Rust, and would hate to see anything

Re: Rust community in distress

Could I get a TL;DW on that video? I love Rust, and would hate to see anything bad happen to it On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 9:40 AM İsmail Arılık wrote: > This is the open source world! So if there is a problem between the > management of Rust and the community, a fork would come and be popular >

Re: Rust community in distress

This is the open source world! So if there is a problem between the management of Rust and the community, a fork would come and be popular soon. Leaving Rust shouldn't be an option I think since it is really a good language. On Fri, Jun 9, 2023, 07:04 Darren Duncan wrote: > And here Rust seemed

Re: Rust community in distress

And here Rust seemed to be massively gaining in popularity, and was just supported officially for Linux kernel driver support etc. -- Darren Duncan On 2023-06-08 11:17 a.m., Parrot Raiser wrote: See https://youtu.be/QEnuzwCWpgQ This is not meant to be an example

Rust community in distress

See https://youtu.be/QEnuzwCWpgQ This is not meant to be an example of schadenfreude. Rust is an interesting language, whose ecological niche has little in common with Perl's or Raku's. Its principal rival is Go, which is definitely more corporate. Alphabet already controls far too much.

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 06/04 at 1pm PDT

"In the game of life and evolution there are three players at the table: human beings, nature, and machines. I am firmly on the side of nature. But nature, I suspect, is on the side of the machines." George B. Dyson, "Darwin Among the Machines" (1997) The Raku Study Group June 4, 2023 1pm

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 05/21 at 1pm PDT

"I definitely feel that there is something rotten in the realm of programming. There is a lot of discussion, but somehow I think that most of it misses the point. There are too many fads, too many quick solutions, a too wide gap between theory and practice." -- Peter Naur,

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 04/30 at 1pm PDT

"The thing about Computer Science is that it's not a Science, and it's not about Computers. The disicipline that's about computers is called Electrical Engineering. And Computer Science isn't a science, because for the most part we don't do experiments to find out what reality is like." --

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 12:01 David Santiago wrote: > > I'm trying to use the variable %?RESOURCES without success. It doesn't > work even when i install it locally with zef > > I have the following: > > demanuel@archlinux test> cat resources/text.txt > This is my test file > demanuel@archlinux

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

On 17-04-2023 18:01, David Santiago wrote: sub MAIN(){ say %?RESOURCES{"text.txt"}.slurp(:close); } If you really want to use it from a MAIN you could make a lookup method in a module which can do the work for you (If  you are building modules anyway). use AModule; sub MAIN(){ say

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

I mean, yes... the program runs at runtime. Anything available to the program is "available during runtime". Yes, you can look up the content at runtime - e.g from the place where it's installed. It is NOT advised to try and change the content that you can look up with %?RESOURCES - you aren't

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

https://docs.raku.org/language/variables says > %?RESOURCES is a compile-time variable available to the code of a > Distribution . > > It contains a hash that provides compile and runtime access to files > associated with the Distribution of the

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

Unless things have changed since I was last active, only modules are precompiled. `?` Twigilled variables are set at compile time. So if it had any values, they wouldn't be useful, because they would be created anew every time. On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 11:48 AM David Santiago wrote: > > Hi Polgár

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

Hi Polgár A seg, 17-04-2023 às 18:08 +0200, Polgár Márton escreveu: > I think this is the classic case of ?-twigilled, "compile-time" > variables only being available in modules. It kind of forces you to > always have the pattern of: heavy-lifting in a module inside lib, and > the script just

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

I think this is the classic case of ?-twigilled, "compile-time" variables only being available in modules. It kind of forces you to always have the pattern of: heavy-lifting in a module inside lib, and the script just uses the module. On 2023. 04. 17. 18:01, David Santiago wrote: I'm trying

Re: Help with %?RESOURCES variable

Can you maybe list %?RESOURCES? I see nothing wrong with it, but just in case. El lun, 17 abr 2023 a las 18:01, David Santiago () escribió: > > I'm trying to use the variable %?RESOURCES without success. It doesn't > work even when i install it locally with zef > > I have the following: > >

Help with %?RESOURCES variable

I'm trying to use the variable %?RESOURCES without success. It doesn't work even when i install it locally with zef I have the following: demanuel@archlinux test> cat resources/text.txt This is my test file demanuel@archlinux test> cat bin/run-me sub MAIN(){ say

A conspicuous omission

If you read this StackOverflow article: https://stackoverflow.blog/2023/03/29/from-web2-to-web3-how-developers-can-upskill-and- build-with-blockchain/ and look at the languages mentioned with APIs, you may notice some missing. That could render them irrelevant to the future. What can we do

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 04/16 at 1pm PDT

"So, is 'genius' the only way to explain it? No, I'm sure there's something I can learn, even from a genius." -- Bakuman (2008-12), Vol 3, Ch 23, "Conceit and Kindness" Tsugumi Ohba & Takeshi Obata, trans. Tetsuichiro Miyaki The Raku Study Group April 16, 2023 1pm in California, 8pm

Re: my zenity adventure

On 27 March 2023 01:35:39 CEST, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: Hi All, Fedora 36 zenity-3.43.0-3.fc37.x86_64 rakudo-pkg-2022.7.0-03.x86_64 My adventure with a zenity call! I just worked around a problem with a call to zenity: Note: zenity can not

Re: my zenity adventure

Hey Todd, Its likely that because you are using the shell sub the < and > characters have been interpreted by the shell to mean redirection. Check for odd files in your working directory that have the text you saw zenity output in them, and perhaps there is even a file with heat the capital

my zenity adventure

Hi All, Fedora 36 zenity-3.43.0-3.fc37.x86_64 rakudo-pkg-2022.7.0-03.x86_64 My adventure with a zenity call! I just worked around a problem with a call to zenity: Note: zenity can not resolve Raku's "\n", so you have to preformat the "text" field with "sprintf". $NotifyStr = sprintf

suggestions for tracking down memory leaks

I have a program that I intend to run for days or weeks at a time, but it is being killed by the OS after a day or so, I think because it is using up too much memory (growing over time). I would like to be able to debug the memory leak and find out where it is happening, so I can fix it. What

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 03/26 at 1pm PDT

"The bloom is off the rose for the big tech companies. We no longer hear so much gushing about putting a library into everyone's hands, social media as a means of empowering people to challenge their governments, or tech innovators who make our lives better by disrupting old industries."

Re: Undefine mixed data

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 10:42:45PM +, Ralph Mellor wrote: > On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 12:49 AM rir wrote: > > > > I did, and do, recognize the validity of the problem of 'undefine' not > > not aligning with '.defined'. > > But do you understand the problem I was trying to communicate?

Re: Undefine mixed data

I'm unable to follow the whole thread in depth, but the point I'd like to make is directly related to the initial example. My question would be: what exactly do we undefine? I mean, all the discussion about definedness and truthiness is undoubtedly great, and I mean no pun here. Special thanks

Re: Undefine mixed data

If you made actual evidential arguments why it's good that Nil gets fed into @variables on assignment, or why is it good that @variables are, yes, both defined and DEFINITE when only declared, why this inconsistency, or counterpointing design,with $variables, is a good thing, we could discuss

Re: Undefine mixed data

I see weaknesses in my attempt to explain Raku's design related to "definedness". (I personally think there would best be a documentation page dedicated to the triumvirate of definiteness, definedness, and truthiness, but here I'm trying to achieve a balance between being short enough for this

Re: Undefine mixed data

Grr, sorry for the spam. After all this trying, the last part still couldn't be delivered. So here is the whole message instead: https://gist.github.com/2colours/53b3c3108b0a44fa559eeed0370c26bf.

Re: Undefine mixed data

it does no good, ever, that you get to store a Nil value ... in an array Why do you think the `is default(Nil)` idiom for storing `Nil`s in `Scalar`s is OK except when the `Scalar`s are inside an array? I grant that, as jnthn put it in an SO discussing this: While there is the `is

Re: Undefine mixed data

(Since this mail couldn't be delivered at first, I'll try to aggressively split it this time...) Dear Ralph, I'm sorry that you get frustrated but this is still for all intents and purposes a technical discussion so I don't think it does any good to be vocal about it. There are good points

Re: Undefine mixed data

On Sat, Mar 18, 2023 at 6:28 PM Polgár Márton wrote: > > For what it's worth, I think most of these behaviors that sometimes > even contradict each other (like the "freshly undefined" array being > both .defined and .DEFINITE) are just design mistakes from a different time. There are no mistakes

Re: Undefine mixed data

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 10:42 PM Ralph Mellor wrote: > > * Definiteness or definedness? If you want it indefinite (or undefined), > call `.WHAT` on the argument. That should be "Bind the result of `.WHAT` called on the argument". Similarly: > * Truthiness? Want a fresh false instance? Call

Re: Undefine mixed data

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 12:49 AM rir wrote: > > I did, and do, recognize the validity of the problem of 'undefine' not > not aligning with '.defined'. But do you understand the problem I was trying to communicate? What you're writing suggests to me you know some other PL(s) that have notions of

Re: Undefine mixed data

Marton, I like the practicality of your advice to preferring scalar containers. Do you think 'undefine' should go away in 6.e with only the proposed replacements? Marton wrote: > quickly messing things up to test this out but since we were talking about a > "scheduled bug" anyway, I think that

Re: Undefine mixed data

Ralph, we agree on my primary complaint that utility/convenience is being lost. I did, and do, recognize the validity of the problem of 'undefine' not not aligning with '.defined'. The docs indicate that being empty is the definition of undefinedness for non-scalar containers. Keeping

Re: Undefine mixed data

For what it's worth, I think most of these behaviors that sometimes even contradict each other (like the "freshly undefined" array being both .defined and .DEFINITE) are just design mistakes from a different time. It was never "the right thing" that you cannot reasonably indicate for an array

Re: Undefine mixed data

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 11:11 PM rir wrote: > > Deprecating 'undefine' is just making something easy more difficult. I see a problem with `undefine`: ``` my @bar; say @bar.defined, @bar.DEFINITE; # TrueTrue undefine @bar; say @bar.defined, @bar.DEFINITE; # TrueTrue ``` I think a warning about

Re: Undefine mixed data

Marton: apologies for badly characterizing your post. I particularly wanted specify the breakage you mentioned for any beginners passing by; got delayed and forgot about some of your post. I just mentioned the basic dual nature of Nil. There is a lot of complexity around 'Nil' and around

Re: Undefine mixed data

Marton, I am not sure of your meaning. I took the warning message as: For Scalars assign a Nil, for Arrays/Hashes/Etc. use Empty or (). Because you might be read as suggesting "@ary = Nil should undefine @ary"; I will point out that will conflict with: @a = Nil; which is defined to

Re: Undefine mixed data

On 2023. 03. 14. 4:42, rir wrote: undefine seen at: , line 1 Will be removed with release v6.e! Please use another way: assign a Nil; for Arrays/Hashes, assign Empty or () instead. Will that deprecation require a conditional and two assignments for mixed data? [$a, @a,

Undefine mixed data

undefine seen at: , line 1 Will be removed with release v6.e! Please use another way: assign a Nil; for Arrays/Hashes, assign Empty or () instead. Will that deprecation require a conditional and two assignments for mixed data? [$a, @a, $b, %c, $c, ].map: { .}; [$a, @a, $b,

Re: Upcoming documentation meetings

Team - I'm going to cancel the call scheduled for this Saturday - we've had great success in the past month coordinating via email (last resort), and irc and github (preferred). We've made a lot of progress, got the site live, closed/transferred probably 50+ tickets, setup milestones on raku/doc

The SF Perl Raku Study Group, 03/05 at 1pm PDT

"The rarest of gifts in men, that on the one hand they should have clear, firm ideas of their own, and, on the other, that they should be able to accomodate themselves to the ideas of men differing from them and give them their due ..." -- Fritz Brupbacher on James Guillaume, from "No Gods, No

Re: New doc site

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 1:12 AM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: http://raku.docs.org At first glance, this looks like a treasure trove. I did not see anything about GUI programming, but I did not look that close. On 2/28/23 16:32, Will Coleda wrote: > Sorry, there is no GUI

Re: New doc site

Sorry, there is no GUI programming that's part of the core; the docs site is for the language spec and any core modules. On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 1:12 AM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: > > > > http://raku.docs.org > At first glance, this looks like a treasure trove. > > I did not see

Re: New doc site

http://raku.docs.org At first glance, this looks like a treasure trove. I did not see anything about GUI programming, but I did not look that close.

<    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   >