Re: Logo considerations
--- On Tue, 3/24/09, jason switzer jswit...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, the perl community has largely adopted TIMTOWTDI So how about a Tim the Toady? :) === Hodges' Rule of Thumb: Don't expect reasonable behavior from anything with a thumb.
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Larry Wall la...@wall.org wrote: http://www.wall.org/~larry/cameliafav.icohttp://www.wall.org/%7Elarry/cameliafav.ico out to be necessary. Hand-crafted anti-aliasing is your friend. :) Larry firefox at 3025%: cameliafav.ico all blown up. [groan] http://feather.perl6.nl/~diakopter/cameliafav.ico.png
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 18:06 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: : Here is something then: : http://p6.hpfamily.net/rakudo-0.png I like Camelia at that size, though the left-right balance is off in a couple ways. i was informed of that but so far this is just rescaling and cut-and-paste : So let me summarize the requirements into a meta-requirement: : : The new logo must make Larry at least as happy as Camelia does. : : If anyone likes this and Larry is happy, I have some in-house artists : with gimp skills far superior to my own who might be persuaded to work : on it tonight. mid-terms ... will have to put this off for a few days Well, I don't have to be persuaded, and I'm my own in-house artist (well, I have Geneva too, who's just as good at that as I am--okay, maybe she's better--and I also bummed a certain amount of gimp advice from Lewis). So anyway, I thought I'd take a crack at a 16x16 Camelia. I think this does tolerable fair as a favicon: http://www.wall.org/~larry/cameliafav.ico To be honest, I thought I'd have to simplify her a lot more than turned out to be necessary. Hand-crafted anti-aliasing is your friend. :) -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
Larry Wall wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote: : 2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: : http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something with gut appeal on the order of Tux. snip Hence, Camelia. I'm quite happy with Camelia being the basis for the logo for the Perl 6 language itself. Larry Wall wrote: If you guys want versions of Camelia in her attack mode, that's okay too. :) And in fact, the ö form looks more like a Hyper Attack Butterfly that is about to bite your face off... :) Please don't. I think the happy version is much better than any angry or violent version. We want the logo to evoke happiness after all. -- Darren Duncan
Re: Logo considerations
to further comment, I would never believe a logo actually influences which programming languages one chooses to develop in ... but I would argue that a logo needs to convey the right 'messages' to those who pay for software projects ... as with any logo; my point is to identify these messages prior to instantiation e.g. graphic design ... though doing both ain't bad either. here is a stab at some simple messages. for developers: inclusive, easy to use, fast, powerful, linguistic based, DIY, all computing paradigms allowed (func, proc, oo, etc), fun, subversive for wider audience: robust, trusted, straightforward, safe, supported colors evoke meaning, shapes/animals, etc do as well ... thats enough from the 'marketing corner' ... back to programming. cheers, Jim Fuller On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Guy Hulbert gwhulb...@eol.ca wrote: On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 21:10 +0100, James Fuller wrote: creating a logo by committee is probably the worst way to design such things ... perl6 logo will be seen in the context of other more professionally designed logos and like it or not using the basics of I hate the java stuff (professional). I don't think much of the debian stuff either (amateur). Some of the things suggested here have been pretty good. [snip] Is there any sponsorship money to spend on a very good graphic designer to create something based on a small list of requirements as to what meaning it should convey ? How was the parrot logo created ?? I saw a suggestion here that it is professionally designed but that wasn't confirmed. It looks good enough to me regardless. I don't see a problem with a long list ... Of course the logo should represent the community fundamentally, but I find all of the suggestions little to do with addressing needs of a logo versus needs of what I would call more of a 'club' badge. ... I see the suggestions here as necessary input. I mention these concerns because I would like perl6 to be adopted to as wide a developer audience as possible. I don't think the logo will make much difference. I don't particularly care much about *what* the logo is or *how* it is created. I've only been offering comments as feedback to the people who are actually working on it. Beauty is better than not. my 2p, Jim Fuller [snip] -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:10 PM, James Fuller james.fuller.2...@gmail.comwrote: Is there any sponsorship money to spend on a very good graphic designer to create something based on a small list of requirements as to what meaning it should convey ? I would agree; have a professional do it and we'll probably get better results. Of course the logo should represent the community fundamentally, but I find all of the suggestions little to do with addressing needs of a logo versus needs of what I would call more of a 'club' badge. Having said that here's my idea: Basically, the perl community has largely adopted TIMTOWTDI as a philosophy (as well as DWIM, but that's harder to model). For that, a cluster of arrows in different directions seems fitting: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yy_uiqKCf0Q/RcEfrHZ_0hI/AB8/Mk1xayjGaSQ/s1600-h/arrows3.jpg http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1060296 http://www.sxc.hu/photo/659267 I personally like the idea of the last one (retains geek cred). [warning: light-hearted humor ahead] There's also the notion that perl6's scope has creeped to accommodate a large enough set of ideas. Seems like an appropriate logo: http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2hl=enq=kitchen+sink -Jason s1n Switzer
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
I like the Camelia it's colourful, fun - it even has an embedded, sideways reference to a Camel. But IMHO there is a need for three logos: 1. Combined Parrot + Rakudo I like the suggestion of having cartoon speech bubbles around the Parrot that contain favicons of the language icons (e.g., Python, Ruby). This means the Rakudo icon needs to be distinctive at favicon size - but that should be a design objective anyway. (Parrot with speech bubbles in favicon halo)++ 2. Rakudo Camelia is colourful, fun, can look distinctive at favicon size and may act as a friendly mascot - and, unlike a camel, it does not spit or smell[1]. Camelia++ 3. Perl6 = the test suite The current plan is that Perl6 will not have a single implementation but that the test suite is shared by implementations. I think there is a need for a Perl6 = test suite device - ideally it should be possible to visually incorporate it with the implementation logos (e.g., Camelia, Pugs, SMOP etc) - this means it should be graphically *very* simple. This sub-device could capture the distinctiveness of Perl6. Ideas include: [ ] - meta-operator brackets - [ ] - these could surround the implementation logos - test suite as a shield against bugs, strength etc - hmm, not sure, Camelia could look trapped at 16x16? * - whatever- a whatever star could be placed on Camelia's wings - a dog collar on the Pug? - a hyper pattern on Camelia's wings? \* *\- capture whatever? end comment. There is rich visual expressiveness and distinctiveness in Perl6 operators - not to mention functionality - it would be a shame not to use these iconically - I think the Perl6 + Test Suite logo has a chance to do this. If it stays *really simple* the implementation logos can embed it too. What is a Perl6 operator that sums up Perl6 and looks visually distinctive? - this could form the basis of the Perl6 + Test Suite device - which in turn could be incorporated by implementation logos? ... Taken together - these three devices (Parrot favicon speech bubbles, Rakudo Camelia and Perl6 = Test Suite[?]) could interlock and help visually stick the meme complex together ... it's exciting. Nige [1] and best of all is not confusing with other registered trademarks. Larry++
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
But IMHO there is a need for three logos: 1. Combined Parrot + Rakudo (Parrot with speech bubbles in favicon halo)++ 2. Rakudo Camelia++ 3. Perl6 = the test suite The current plan is that Perl6 will not have a single implementation but that the test suite is shared by implementations. I think there is a need for a Perl6 = test suite device - ideally it should be possible to visually incorporate it with the implementation logos (e.g., Camelia, Pugs, SMOP etc) - this means it should be graphically *very* simple. This sub-device could capture the distinctiveness of Perl6. Ideas include: So iconically speaking the test suite [demarcates] Perl6 - but there can be lots of different implementations (whatever *) - [*] - here is a basic mock up: Perl6 = Test Suite logo: http://t10.com/perl6-test.jpg (basic mock up) Which could be incorporated into Camelia like: http://t10.com/perl6-camelia.png (mock up) And Parrot could speak Rakudo (Camelia): http://t10.com/parrot-rakudo.png As you will see Camelia needs the skillz of a graphic designer to make sure it still works even when rendered at 16x16 as a tiny favicon - but I think you could visually bind the three things together: Perl6 test suite + Rakudo/Camelia + Parrot. Just some ideas Nige
Re: Logo considerations
jason switzer jswit...@gmail.com writes: [warning: light-hearted humor ahead] There's also the notion that perl6's scope has creeped to accommodate a large enough set of ideas. Seems like an appropriate logo: http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2hl=enq=kitchen+sink I kinda liked that one – back when Emacs did it: http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2hl=enq=%22emacs+kitchen+sink+icon%22btnG=Search+Images ;-) Eirik -- O misbegotten pile of festering aardvark's fewmets! O vile unwashed ill-doer! I blast you with the curse of the mad witch of Wickham! May every boychild born to you , and to your sons, and to your sons' sons, even unto the Seventh Generation, be born male! (well I told you she was mad!).
Re: Logo considerations
jason switzer writes: Basically, the perl community has largely adopted TIMTOWTDI as a philosophy ... For that, a cluster of arrows in different directions seems fitting Or a toad, called Tim -- frogs are cuter than arrows! (Though timtowtdi is already associated with Perl 5, so perhaps not what Perl 6 should be emphasizing.) Smylers
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
Perl 6 is more than just the test suite. It's a language specification, a reference parser, a test suite, and perhaps a reference setting implementation. All of the things about the language that are not tied to a particular implementation are part of Perl 6. Rakudo is a particular implementation of Perl 6 using Parrot. While it is a separate project from both Perl 6 and Parrot, it is intimately tied to both, and I think its logo should reflect that. I don't see much point in having separate logos for Rakudo on Parrot and Rakudo without Parrot. I mean, I suppose much of the frontend work could be ported to a different backend, but would that still be considered Rakudo? (Incidentally, the Rakudo name arose while I wasn't really paying attention to Parrot developments, and I missed its advent. So let me a-year-belatedly say that I find it a very nice coinage. Besides getting the camel and the idea of The Perl Way in there, and of course the perl = paradise implication is a nice touch, I like that if you squint at it sideways you can almost see the word roku, which is Japanese for six.)
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:36:56AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: Rakudo is a particular implementation of Perl 6 using Parrot. While it is a separate project from both Perl 6 and Parrot, it is intimately tied to both, and I think its logo should reflect that. I don't see much point in having separate logos for Rakudo on Parrot and Rakudo without Parrot. I mean, I suppose much of the frontend work could be ported to a different backend, but would that still be considered Rakudo? I don't know that I consider Rakudo Perl to be forever tied to Parrot. If we come up with other backends, I'd still consider the result Rakudo; similar to how Pugs referred to all of the various backends available to it and not just the Haskell backend. So from that perspective, I don't know that the Rakudo logo ought to be strongly tied to Parrot, any more than we tie the Parrot logo to the various GNU tools used to build it. Pm
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 09:59 -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:36:56AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: Rakudo is a particular implementation of Perl 6 using Parrot. While it is a separate project from both Perl 6 and Parrot, it is intimately tied to both, and I think its logo should reflect that. I don't see much point in having separate logos for Rakudo on Parrot and Rakudo without Parrot. I mean, I suppose much of the frontend work could be ported to a different backend, but would that still be considered Rakudo? I don't know that I consider Rakudo Perl to be forever tied to Parrot. If we come up with other backends, I'd still consider the result Rakudo; similar to how Pugs referred to all of the various backends available to it and not just the Haskell backend. that's very interesting So from that perspective, I don't know that the Rakudo logo ought to be strongly tied to Parrot, any more than we tie the Parrot logo to the various GNU tools used to build it. still looks like: 6 Rakudo P will work for the interim as long as Rakudo is separable Pm -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 22:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: : Additionally, while you recommended Camelia for Rakudo, my : understanding was that Larry was recommending it for Perl 6 rather than : Rakudo. This is correct. Patrick has the final say on Rakudo's logo. : I think he was offering it as an example and a suggestion. The perl6 : community might favor it out of respect for Larry but I think he went : out of his way to make it clear that it's the kind of thing he would : like. Yes, I went out of my way to indicate that my mind was still open (a little). However, if you will allow an old geezer to be a wee bit testy, I would also like to make it clear that I'm a just a little tired of these rounds; more importantly, that I've been mulling over this particular issue for many years. I didn't just come up with that list of requirements off the cuff. I'm old enough to have lots of stuff on my cuff as well. Also, it's probably mere hubris, but I already consider myself to be a professional designer. I know how to take into account the various factors that a professional designer would take into account when designing yet another highly original logo that somehow ends up looking just like every other logo out there. You'll notice that sterility is not on my list of requirements. It was a deliberate omission. So let me summarize the requirements into a meta-requirement: The new logo must make Larry at least as happy as Camelia does. That is the extent to which my mind is still open... :-) Larry
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 09:39 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 22:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: : Additionally, while you recommended Camelia for Rakudo, my : understanding was that Larry was recommending it for Perl 6 rather than : Rakudo. This is correct. Patrick has the final say on Rakudo's logo. Here is something then: http://p6.hpfamily.net/rakudo-0.png Shamelessly gimped up from: http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm and from Larry's camelia image. [snip] So let me summarize the requirements into a meta-requirement: The new logo must make Larry at least as happy as Camelia does. If anyone likes this and Larry is happy, I have some in-house artists with gimp skills far superior to my own who might be persuaded to work on it tonight. That is the extent to which my mind is still open... :-) Larry -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 03:43:47PM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 09:39 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: : On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 22:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: : : Additionally, while you recommended Camelia for Rakudo, my : : understanding was that Larry was recommending it for Perl 6 rather than : : Rakudo. : : This is correct. Patrick has the final say on Rakudo's logo. : : Here is something then: : http://p6.hpfamily.net/rakudo-0.png I like Camelia at that size, though the left-right balance is off in a couple ways. : So let me summarize the requirements into a meta-requirement: : : The new logo must make Larry at least as happy as Camelia does. : : If anyone likes this and Larry is happy, I have some in-house artists : with gimp skills far superior to my own who might be persuaded to work : on it tonight. Well, I don't have to be persuaded, and I'm my own in-house artist (well, I have Geneva too, who's just as good at that as I am--okay, maybe she's better--and I also bummed a certain amount of gimp advice from Lewis). So anyway, I thought I'd take a crack at a 16x16 Camelia. I think this does tolerable fair as a favicon: http://www.wall.org/~larry/cameliafav.ico To be honest, I thought I'd have to simplify her a lot more than turned out to be necessary. Hand-crafted anti-aliasing is your friend. :) Anyway, managed to squeeze in the black wings with the P and the 6, the buggy eyes, the antennae, the legs (sort of) and, of course, the Mona Lisa smirk. More importantly, the outline still very much says butterfly against most backgrounds, and the face is large enough to still have some personality. Larry
Re: Logo considerations
Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular? It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps with the Parrot logo mixed in. On 3/24/09, Daniel Ruoso dan...@ruoso.com wrote: Em Ter, 2009-03-24 às 09:01 -0300, Daniel Ruoso escreveu: A zombie cat? While I wasn't really serious about it... -- Sent from my mobile device Mark J. Reed markjr...@gmail.com
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:25:15 -0400, Daniel Ruoso dan...@ruoso.com wrote: are you suggesting that the cat should be eating a parrot in the rakudo logo? Haha... that's pretty funny. -- ispy++
Re: Logo considerations
--- On Tue, 3/24/09, John Macdonald j...@perlwolf.com wrote: The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be used as the logo for Parrot... A carbon ring also has the advantages that it's regognizable as a very small logo, even as just a favicon.ico, and can be reasonably if stylistically represented in simple ASCII art. You can even put a tail off the top to look like 6-ish, or if you have real art skills, superimpose a Pearl into the hexagon with a little VI (both a Roman numeral and a vague homage to the text editor of it's UNIX roots). Yes, lots of inside jokes, but that's part of the community thing === Hodges' Rule of Thumb: Never expect reasonable behavior from anything with a thumb.
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 08:42 -0700, Paul Hodges wrote: --- On Tue, 3/24/09, John Macdonald j...@perlwolf.com wrote: The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be used as the logo for Parrot... Did you mean Rakudo here ? Parrot seems to have a logo already. A carbon ring also has the advantages that it's regognizable as a very small logo, even as just a favicon.ico, and can be reasonably if stylistically represented in simple ASCII art. You can even put a tail off the top to look like 6-ish, or if you have real art skills, superimpose a Pearl into the hexagon with a little VI (both a Roman numeral and a vague homage to the text editor of it's UNIX roots). Yes, lots of inside jokes, but that's part of the community thing -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf
Re: Logo considerations
2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf Intended or not, the smiley is a nice tribute to Audrey and her lovely style of presentations. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus: http://amire80.livejournal.com We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace. - T. Moore
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 09:16 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf It's nice but I don't get it. google: camelia http://camelia.sourceforge.net/ http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/plants/camelia/ http://www.hotelcamelia.com/ http://akira.ruc.dk/~camelia/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelia_Potec ok ... i'm still not getting it ... google: camelia butterfly still flowers http://www.flickr.com/photos/lordv/with/3362403260/ spelled with two ls ... must be bactrian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote: : 2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: : http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf : : Cute. I do like the hyper-operated smiley-face. : : What I'd really like to see, though, is a logo that speaks to Perl's : linguistic roots. That, more than anything else I can think of, is : _the_ defining feature of Perl. Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo for Perl 6 that is: Fun Cool Cute Named Lively Punable Personal Concrete Symmetric Asymmetric Attractive Relational Metamorphic Decolorizable Shrinkable to textual icon Shrinkable to graphical icon In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching P6 wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :) Hence, Camelia. Larry
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 10:24 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something [snip] In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching P6 wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should I was unaware of mysogyny in the perl community. I'm sorry to hear about it. consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :) Hence, Camelia. So P6 wings on a parrot would do for rakudo then. -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
Oh, I forgot to mention that Camelia's larval form was a dromedary, and she's actually got a wingspan of about 3 meters. You really don't want to get her mad. (It is rumored that she has a very small hump, but if so, she shows it only to her close friends.) She was genetically engineered while metamorphizing and can change the colors of her wings to match or contrast with her surroundings, depending on whether she wants to hide or be noticed. Camelia is terrifically excited to be considered for the Perl 6 mascot. :) Larry
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 10:37 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: Oh, I forgot to mention that Camelia's larval form was a dromedary, well that might have given us a clue and she's actually got a wingspan of about 3 meters. You really don't want to get her mad. (It is rumored that she has a very small hump, but if so, she shows it only to her close friends.) is there a six tape ? She was genetically engineered while metamorphizing and can change the colors of her wings to match or contrast with her surroundings, depending on whether she wants to hide or be noticed. Camelia is terrifically excited to be considered for the Perl 6 mascot. :) the P6 parrot is appropriately intimidated and withdraws its candidacy ... Larry -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 01:33:41PM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : I was unaware of mysogyny in the perl community. I'm sorry to hear : about it. In general it's not overt as it is in other communities, or even intended--I think we do pretty well, in fact--but it's easy to discourage people unintentionally as well, so we do need to be very careful to be fair. And it would not be fair to give the impression to 50% of our potential users that they have to become guys to fit in. That's all I meant. And I'm not trying to unbalance it the other way either. If you guys want versions of Camelia in her attack mode, that's okay too. :) And in fact, the ö form looks more like a Hyper Attack Butterfly that is about to bite your face off... :) Larry
RE: Logo considerations
-Original Message-
From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:conrad.schnei...@gmail.com]
Here's my latest suggestion:
http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm
It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below)
and Ross Kendall's suggestions at
(http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas).
For a smaller sized Rakudo logo,
just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo
and the Parrot logo.
The proposed Perl 6 logo is a coronene molecule
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronene).
PS: Suggested {Perl6, Parrot, Parrot languages, and CXAN}
ecosystem slogan: brainware of the semantic web.
Forgot to mention that (per Larry's suggestions)
you could also regard the Perl 6 logo as a
stylized flower, and you could round the
outer corners a bit to soften the logo.
Best regards,
Conrad
Conrad Schneiker
www.AthenaLab.com
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:24:47AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: I want something with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo for Perl 6 that is: Fun Cool Cute Named Lively Punable [...] +2 to this approach. Pm
RE: Logo considerations
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 11:38 -0700, Conrad Schneiker wrote: Here's my latest suggestion: http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below) and Ross Kendall's suggestions at (http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas). For a smaller sized Rakudo logo, just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo and the Parrot logo. For the small logo, you could super-impose the Parrot on top of the molecule ... and for pugs: http://www.bnpositive.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/starwars-pugs.jpg or you could select something more tasteful from: http://images.google.com/images?q=pugoe=utf-8rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficialclient=iceweasel-aum=1ie=UTF-8sa=Nhl=entab=wi The proposed Perl 6 logo is a coronene molecule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronene). -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
Em Ter, 2009-03-24 às 09:17 -0400, Mark J. Reed escreveu: Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular? It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps with the Parrot logo mixed in. are you suggesting that the cat should be eating a parrot in the rakudo logo? ... sorry, couldn't resist... again... daniel
Re: Logo considerations
Em Seg, 2009-03-23 às 21:47 -0700, Darren Duncan escreveu: If you're going for sciencey or mathey illustrations, then I think its important to include something that speaks quantum physics in there, since quantum superpositions aka Junctions are one of the big central user features that Perl 6 provides which is relatively new to languages in general. A zombie cat? sorry... couldn't resist... daniel
Re: Logo considerations
2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf Cute. I do like the hyper-operated smiley-face. What I'd really like to see, though, is a logo that speaks to Perl's linguistic roots. That, more than anything else I can think of, is _the_ defining feature of Perl. -- Jonathan Dataweaver Lang
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:16:01AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf I gotta say, that these are the first 2 that I even remotely like. I especially like how the P and the 6 are in the wings. I think what appeals to me is that they are simple, easy to look at, and not overly complicated with meaning or cleverness. my $0.02. Brett -- B. Estrade http://www.loni.org
Re: Logo considerations
creating a logo by committee is probably the worst way to design such things ... perl6 logo will be seen in the context of other more professionally designed logos and like it or not using the basics of modern branding and marketing will result in something that is more recognizable no matter how much we may despise these kind of techniques realize that commercial entities (which compete in some way directly with perl6) will spendmillions on such activities and perl6 should consider at a minimum professional execution of a design. Is there any sponsorship money to spend on a very good graphic designer to create something based on a small list of requirements as to what meaning it should convey ? Of course the logo should represent the community fundamentally, but I find all of the suggestions little to do with addressing needs of a logo versus needs of what I would call more of a 'club' badge. I mention these concerns because I would like perl6 to be adopted to as wide a developer audience as possible. my 2p, Jim Fuller On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Conrad Schneiker conrad.schnei...@gmail.com wrote: From: Guy Hulbert [mailto:gwhulb...@eol.ca] On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 11:38 -0700, Conrad Schneiker wrote: Here's my latest suggestion: http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below) and Ross Kendall's suggestions at (http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas). For a smaller sized Rakudo logo, just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo and the Parrot logo. For the small logo, you could super-impose the Parrot on top of the molecule ... and for pugs: http://www.bnpositive.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/starwars-pugs.jpg That's awful! And outrageously hilarious. The Yoda image + molecule (aka hexa-flower) gets my vote for Pugs (although it's not my decision to make). Best regards, Conrad Conrad Schneiker www.AthenaLab.com
Re: Logo considerations
Larry Wall wrote: And in fact, the ö form looks more like a Hyper Attack Butterfly that is about to bite your face off... :) Her topmodel looks very hexagonal. |_| / \ -/ \- | | -\ /- \-/ | | -- Ruud
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:17:15AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular? It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps with the Parrot logo mixed in. The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be used as the logo for Parrot. Languages based on Parrot could then use a tiny carbon ring attached to their own logo (such as grapheme for Rakudo). Carbon does connect well to many other chemical combinations, including joining together things that don't otherwise bond directly to each other. (The duct tape of the microverse, bringing carbon-based program forms to the world. :-) A neat thing that could come out of this would be that there would be a convenient logo for a module that made use of multiple languages - the carbon ring with an appropriate number of language logos attached to it. In keeping with the tradition that carbon rings often have symbols inside the ring - I'd put a parrot inside a hexagonal birdcage as the full-sized Parrot logo, and only reduce it to just the small hexagon ring when it is being used in a connected fashion, attached to other logos. (Of course, this is not the proper forum for discussing changing the Parrot logo to a carbon ring.)
Re: Logo considerations
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:56:46AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 08:42 -0700, Paul Hodges wrote: --- On Tue, 3/24/09, John Macdonald j...@perlwolf.com wrote: The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be used as the logo for Parrot... Did you mean Rakudo here ? Parrot seems to have a logo already. Well, it may have been removed from Paul quote, but I mentioned in my original message that this was the wrong forum to be suggesting a new logo for Parrot, but yes Parrot is what I was referring to. I just realized one more connotation of using the carbon ring for Parrot - since it provides a platform for both building and connecting a wide variety of languages, this is the: one ring to bind them
Re: Logo considerations
Firstly, I'd like to speak in favour of the idea of designing a logo for Perl6, and then creating a Rakudo logo based on the Perl6 logo and the Parrot logo. From here on, I'll be addressing the Perl6 logo. On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Larry Wall wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote: : 2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: : http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf I vote for this at the moment, but I'd still like to see other proposals now that we have some more direction. Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo for Perl 6 that is: Fun Cool Cute Named Lively Punable Personal Concrete Symmetric Asymmetric Attractive Relational Metamorphic Decolorizable Shrinkable to textual icon Shrinkable to graphical icon These criteria seem to eliminate all of the other existing logo proposals. However, some of them could be redesigned to fit these criteria. I'd like to ask, though, that all future logos include both the text and the graphical version. In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching P6 wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :) In spite of what you said about the butterfly being enormous, I'd like to suggest that one advantage of having a butterfly is that we could believably have it sitting on top of the Parrot (enormous parrot too?). In response to those asking for a professional designer, I'd like to see us go around a few more times here, and see if we can't come up with at least a good concept that could hopefully be used/stylised by a real graphic designer, so that we might end up with something like the Parrot logo. Now that Larry's provided some criteria, let round 2 of the design process begin! :) - | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is,| | E-mail: wayl...@wayland.id.au| I am | - BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+++ PGP-+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI D G+ e++ h! y- -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Re: Logo considerations
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 10:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: In response to those asking for a professional designer, I'd like to see us go around a few more times here, and see if we can't come up with at least a good concept that could hopefully be used/stylised by a real graphic designer, so that we might end up with something like the Parrot logo. +1 (and most of the rest too) Now that Larry's provided some criteria, let round 2 of the design process begin! I think this originally came up a few weeks ago ... seems more like round 3 to me ;-) -- --gh
Re: Logo considerations
Timothy S. Nelson wrote [on p6l]: On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Richard Hainsworth wrote: Alternatively, if we stay away from animals, then how about something to do with parallelism, or super-positioning, or even a strange attractor, since perl6 can be strange and yet it is attractive. Ok, I've attached a logo mockup of lazy, (supposedly) parallel lions that are strangely attracted to each other. Think of this logo mockup as a wiki -- feel free to hack on it, especially if you can get the lions to be hubristically superpositioned while also remaining parallel and attracted. Or, if we made the magnetic lines of force hexagonal (inspired by Conrad Schneiker), and superpositioned (ie. superimposed) the whole thing over the Parrot logo, that would be kinda cool. Although if we keep going like this, the logo will look like a Graeme Base picture. If you're going for sciencey or mathey illustrations, then I think its important to include something that speaks quantum physics in there, since quantum superpositions aka Junctions are one of the big central user features that Perl 6 provides which is relatively new to languages in general. For example, one particularly iconic illustration is the cat in the sealed box with poison and a Geiger counter, aka Schrödinger's cat. Or rather than images of an alive and dead cat superimposed, you could have images of other mutually exclusive things superimposed. And depending on what things you choose, then those items can pull multiple-duty as other symbols (a boon to a logo); eg, those 2 lions, depending how you look at it, could be either powerful/lazy, or alive/dead. Mind you, you don't want to go too far away such that it isn't easy to perceive the quantum interpretation without being told it is there. On a related matter, remember that when going for a logo you don't want to make it *too* complicated. With symbols, often less is more. And also we probably want something that will work scaled up or down. It should certainly look good as black and white line-art. I know they are more examples, but some things I saw suggested looked a bit too complicated. On the other hand, arguably the gimel is too simple. But I'm sure something good can be worked out. -- Darren Duncan
