Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Hi 2018-08-10 21:00 GMT+02:00 Bruce Momjian : > On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 05:31:40PM -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote: > > JD sit down, I am going to agree with you:) The documentation as it > stands > > is very good, though it requires some fore knowledge to successfully > > navigate. On pages with a

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 05:31:40PM -0700, Adrian Klaver wrote: > JD sit down, I am going to agree with you:) The documentation as it stands > is very good, though it requires some fore knowledge to successfully > navigate. On pages with a lot of content it often is not evident, to many, > that

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/20/2018 05:31 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: On 07/20/2018 04:48 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/20/2018 03:59 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: I don't see why we need this thread to continue.  This sounds like somebody looking for a solution when they don't yet know what the problem is.

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/20/2018 04:56 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: +1. I'd personally like to see improvements to the tutorials, and patches could certainly be submitted or specific ideas discussed over on -docs. A few ideas around that would be: - Setting up async replication - Setting up sync replication, with

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/20/2018 04:48 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/20/2018 03:59 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: I don't see why we need this thread to continue.  This sounds like somebody looking for a solution when they don't yet know what the problem is. Unfortunately, you don't understand the problem which

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Friday, July 20, 2018, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > I was hoping to get the -general community to step and build some recipes > and howto articles without at the same time dictating the solution. That's > a good thing because a non-dictated solution is likely to have more > strength. > People

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/20/2018 05:48 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/20/2018 03:59 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: I don't see why we need this thread to continue.  This sounds like somebody looking for a solution when they don't yet know what the problem is. Unfortunately, you don't understand the problem

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Greetings, * Alvaro Herrera (alvhe...@2ndquadrant.com) wrote: > I don't see why we need this thread to continue. This sounds like > somebody looking for a solution when they don't yet know what the > problem is. > > If people want to contribute, there are already some places where they > can do

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/20/2018 03:59 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: I don't see why we need this thread to continue. This sounds like somebody looking for a solution when they don't yet know what the problem is. Unfortunately, you don't understand the problem which is why this thread is happening on -general and

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > On 2018-Jul-20, Adrian Klaver wrote: > > > On 07/20/2018 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > > Back to the original idea, it would be great if those participating > > > would be willing to help even a little in determining an actual > >

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 2018-Jul-20, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 07/20/2018 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > Back to the original idea, it would be great if those participating > > would be willing to help even a little in determining an actual > > direction to take this. > > I would say that discussion should

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/20/2018 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/20/2018 10:38 AM, George Neuner wrote: As libraries allow users/citizens to request books be purchased at no cost to the user/citizen, the argument that someone cannot afford a book is now a moot point. This thread is getting off topic.

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/20/2018 10:38 AM, George Neuner wrote: As libraries allow users/citizens to request books be purchased at no cost to the user/citizen, the argument that someone cannot afford a book is now a moot point. This thread is getting off topic. The tl;dr; of this particular subthread is that

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 21:02:16 -0400, Melvin Davidson wrote: >As universities DO NOT ALLOW software to be installed on shared computers, >and this is the case especially in a library, it implies the user has >their own computer. Many (most?) universities do allow students to install and run

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Our University provides access to a Linux server for any student (not just those in data science etc) or staff member and that computer has Postgres available for anyone who want to use it. The server is also accessible remotely (80% of our student base is remote/on-line). You also get a shell

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/19/2018 06:58 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: On 07/19/2018 05:54 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: On 07/19/2018 05:43 PM, Melvin Davidson wrote:  > Then again people might use shared, university or library computers Would you please be so kind as to inform us which university or library

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:43 PM Melvin Davidson wrote: > > > Then again people might use shared, university or library computers > Would you please be so kind as to inform us which university or library > allows users to install software on a _shared_ computer. > > Well, just sticking to a quick

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 07/19/2018 05:43 PM, Melvin Davidson wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> > Then again people might use shared, university or library computers >> Would you please be so kind as to inform us which university or library >> allows users to install

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/19/2018 05:54 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: On 07/19/2018 05:43 PM, Melvin Davidson wrote:  > Then again people might use shared, university or library computers Would you please be so kind as to inform us which university or library allows users to install software on a _shared_

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/19/2018 05:43 PM, Melvin Davidson wrote: > Then again people might use shared, university or library computers Would you please be so kind as to inform us which university or library allows users to install software on a _shared_ computer. Pretty sure Ken was referring to

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 8:09 PM, Ken Tanzer wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:35 AM Melvin Davidson > wrote: > >> >> Politely tell them to buy some of the many well written books that are >> available on these very topics... >> >Fair enough but what about those that cant afford it? I think us

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:35 AM Melvin Davidson wrote: > >> Politely tell them to buy some of the many well written books that are > available on these very topics... > >Fair enough but what about those that cant afford it? I think us in the > Western World tend to forget that by >far the

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Peter J. Holzer writes: > On 2018-07-18 08:09:35 +1000, Tim Cross wrote: >> If using web widgets to author content on the wiki is the main >> impediment for contributing content, maybe we should see if the wiki >> provides alternative access methods. I've used wikis in the past which >>

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

>> Politely tell them to buy some of the many well written books that are available on these very topics... >Fair enough but what about those that cant afford it? I think us in the Western World tend to forget that by >far the majority of users cant afford a latte from Starbucks let alone a 60.00

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 2018-07-19 11:43:18 -0600, Rob Sargent wrote: > On 07/19/2018 11:04 AM, Peter J. Holzer wrote: > > On 2018-07-18 08:09:35 +1000, Tim Cross wrote: > > > If using web widgets to author content on the wiki is the main > > > impediment for contributing content, maybe we should see if the wiki > > >

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/19/2018 11:04 AM, Peter J. Holzer wrote: On 2018-07-18 08:09:35 +1000, Tim Cross wrote: If using web widgets to author content on the wiki is the main impediment for contributing content, maybe we should see if the wiki provides alternative access methods. I've used wikis in the past

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 2018-07-18 08:09:35 +1000, Tim Cross wrote: > If using web widgets to author content on the wiki is the main > impediment for contributing content, maybe we should see if the wiki > provides alternative access methods. I've used wikis in the past which > allowed users to upload content via

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Greetings Vick, * Vick Khera (vi...@khera.org) wrote: > I didn't know it existed either, mostly because I know how to ask google to > do things, and the things I need to know are not covered here (yet). This > does seem to me to be the ideal place to add more how to documentation to > augment all

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 04:56 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/16/2018 04:33 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: I did it! Want to help? I think if we got together 5-7 people and came up with a proposal we could submit to -www/-core and get some buy in. Given the really discovered existence of the tutorial

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Peter Eisentraut < peter.eisentr...@2ndquadrant.com> wrote: > On 17.07.18 02:13, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On 07/16/2018 05:08 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > >> > >> Sounds like wiki pages could solve need this pretty conveniently. If > >> and when the content is

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 17.07.18 02:13, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 07/16/2018 05:08 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: >> >> Sounds like wiki pages could solve need this pretty conveniently. If >> and when the content is mature enough and migrates to the tutorial main >> documentation pages, the wiki pages can be replaced

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

> On Jul 16, 2018, at 8:08 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > On 2018-Jul-16, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> Think of this (if we can figure out how to pull this off): User on >> StackOverflow says, "How do I do X", someone answers with a direct >> link to a recipe on PostgreSQL.Org that tells them

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 20:14, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On 07/16/2018 05:08 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > > > Sounds like wiki pages could solve need this pretty conveniently. If > > and when the content is mature enough and migrates to the tutorial main > > documentation pages, the wiki pages

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 05:08 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: Sounds like wiki pages could solve need this pretty conveniently. If and when the content is mature enough and migrates to the tutorial main documentation pages, the wiki pages can be replaced with redirects to those. Anyone who writes a lot is

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 2018-Jul-16, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Think of this (if we can figure out how to pull this off): User on > StackOverflow says, "How do I do X", someone answers with a direct > link to a recipe on PostgreSQL.Org that tells them exactly how to do X > (with caveats of course). There isn't much

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 04:56 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: 3) Some combination of the editorial board/peer reviewers/other volunteers would periodically go over existing documentation to remove/update stale content. I did it! s/did/dig -- Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ ||

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 04:33 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: First, my assumption is that this project would be done within the .Org infrastructure and if the community thinks that we should just use DocBook that is certainly an option (although adhering to something like Docbook Simple may be best). All

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 03:37 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Joshua D. Drake >wrote: On 07/16/2018 03:14 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: What does the community think about a community run, community organized, sub project

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 03:18 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/16/2018 03:07 PM, Tim Cross wrote: I think encouraging user developed docs is a great idea. However, I'm not sure how your proposal really addresses the issue. How would your proposal deal with the "but let's be honest, writing a

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 07/16/2018 03:14 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: > > > What does the community think about a community run, community organized, >> sub project for USER documentation? This type of documentation would be >> things like, "10 steps to

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 03:14 PM, David G. Johnston wrote: What does the community think about a community run, community organized, sub project for USER documentation? This type of documentation would be things like, "10 steps to configure replication", "Dumb simple Postgres backups", 

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 03:07 PM, Tim Cross wrote: I think encouraging user developed docs is a great idea. However, I'm not sure how your proposal really addresses the issue. How would your proposal deal with the "but let's be honest, writing a blog/article/howto in a wiki is a pain in the butt" issue?

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > -general. > > Over the last year as I have visited many meetups and interacted with > people at conferences etc... There are three prevailing issues that > continue to come up in contributing to the community. This email is about > one of

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Joshua D. Drake writes: > -general. > > Over the last year as I have visited many meetups and interacted with > people at conferences etc... There are three prevailing issues that > continue to come up in contributing to the community. This email is > about one of them. Where is the "user"

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 02:54 PM, Vick Khera wrote: On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 5:44 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: On 07/16/2018 02:22 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/16/2018 01:59 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: We have a place for this to go, in the

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 5:44 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 07/16/2018 02:22 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> On 07/16/2018 01:59 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: >> >>> >>> We have a place for this to go, in the official docs, already split out >>> by version, and it starts here: >>> >>>

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 02:22 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/16/2018 01:59 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: We have a place for this to go, in the official docs, already split out by version, and it starts here: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/10/static/tutorial-start.html Adding more to that certainly

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 01:59 PM, Stephen Frost wrote: We have a place for this to go, in the official docs, already split out by version, and it starts here: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/10/static/tutorial-start.html Adding more to that certainly sounds good to me. I didn't know that existed. I

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 01:48 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On 07/16/2018 01:39 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: Not sure this is much different from the Wiki unless: The wiki is certainly "a place" that can be used for this but the wiki takes a lot of effort to find things on it, manage it etc... Who is

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Greetings, * Benjamin Scherrey (scher...@proteus-tech.com) wrote: > One thing I recall very fondly about the early days of the Lamp stack was > that the official documentation of PHP and MySQL was augmented with user > created practical examples. It was still reference documentation organized >

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

"Joshua D. Drake" writes: > On 07/16/2018 01:39 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: >> Not sure this is much different from the Wiki unless: > The wiki is certainly "a place" that can be used for this but the wiki > takes a lot of effort to find things on it, manage it etc... You haven't exactly

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 01:39 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: Not sure this is much different from the Wiki unless: The wiki is certainly "a place" that can be used for this but the wiki takes a lot of effort to find things on it, manage it etc... Who is going to?: 1) Run/maintain it. Well this is a

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 3:33 AM Joshua D. Drake wrote: > -general. > > Over the last year as I have visited many meetups and interacted with > people at conferences etc... There are three prevailing issues that > continue to come up in contributing to the community. This email is > about one of

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

Joshua D. Drake schrieb am 16.07.2018 um 22:32: -general. Over the last year as I have visited many meetups and interacted with people at conferences etc... There are three prevailing issues that continue to come up in contributing to the community. This email is about one of them. Where is the

Re: User documentation vs Official Docs

On 07/16/2018 01:32 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: -general. Over the last year as I have visited many meetups and interacted with people at conferences etc... There are three prevailing issues that continue to come up in contributing to the community. This email is about one of them. Where is

User documentation vs Official Docs

-general. Over the last year as I have visited many meetups and interacted with people at conferences etc... There are three prevailing issues that continue to come up in contributing to the community. This email is about one of them. Where is the "user" documentation? The official