Re: [JDBC] Re: [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Guillaume Smet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another question is how we can be sure it doesn't happen again. The easiest way to test this is probably to have a JDBC test testing this exact feature in the future benchfarm. Any comment? Yeah, the lack of any formal testing of the extended-Query

[HACKERS] New boxes available for QA

2008-04-01 Thread Guillaume Smet
-hackers, As I announced it a couple of months ago, apart from the boxes donated to PostgreSQLFr (affected to the web team IIRC), Continuent also donated 7 servers and a Gb/s switch to us for QA testing. It took some time to set them up but they're now up and running and available. These servers

Re: [JDBC] Re: [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Guillaume Smet
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, the lack of any formal testing of the extended-Query protocol is a real problem. I'm not sure of a good fix, but it bears some thinking about. Not only do we not have an automated way to notice if we broke

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] ANALYZE getting dead tuple count hopelessly wrong

2008-04-01 Thread Pavan Deolasee
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please do --- I have a lot of other stuff on my plate. Please see the attached patch. One change I made is to hold the SHARE lock on the page while ANALYZE is reading tuples from it. I thought it would be a right thing to do

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] Avahi support for Postgresql

2008-04-01 Thread Mathias Hasselmann
Am Samstag, den 29.03.2008, 12:25 + schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 01:13:38PM +0100, Mathias Hasselmann wrote: [...] Avahi/Bonjour/DNS-SD support[1] is very important, for integrating Postgresql with modern

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] ANALYZE getting dead tuple count hopelessly wrong

2008-04-01 Thread Simon Riggs
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 13:07 +0530, Pavan Deolasee wrote: Please see the attached patch. One change I made is to hold the SHARE lock on the page while ANALYZE is reading tuples from it. I thought it would be a right thing to do instead of repeatedly acquiring/releasing the lock. ANALYZE is a

Re: [HACKERS] actualized SQL/PSM patch

2008-04-01 Thread Pavel Stehule
On 31/03/2008, Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pavel, Honestly, I havn't dug into the real patch all that deeply but I did notice a few minor issues which I've listed out below. The bigger question I have for this patch, however, is just how close is it to PL/pgSQL? If the

Re: [JDBC] [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Dave Cramer
On 1-Apr-08, at 6:25 AM, Michael Paesold wrote: Am 01.04.2008 um 01:26 schrieb Tom Lane: While testing the changes I was making to Pavel's EXECUTE USING patch to ensure that parameter values were being provided to the planner, it became painfully obvious that the planner wasn't actually

Re: [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Michael Paesold
Am 01.04.2008 um 01:26 schrieb Tom Lane: While testing the changes I was making to Pavel's EXECUTE USING patch to ensure that parameter values were being provided to the planner, it became painfully obvious that the planner wasn't actually *doing* anything with them. For example

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] Avahi support for Postgresql

2008-04-01 Thread tomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 09:35:56AM +0200, Mathias Hasselmann wrote: Am Samstag, den 29.03.2008, 12:25 + schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] Sorry for a dumb question, but I couldn't figure that out from your references [1]..[4]: does that mean

[HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Andrew Dunstan
From the idle thoughts in the middle of the night department: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single sequential pass over the base table? If so, that would probably give us a

Re: [HACKERS] actualized SQL/PSM patch

2008-04-01 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Pavel Stehule [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't to say so plpgpsm is an dialect of plpgsql. Minimally there are different parser. I am sure so supported functions can be shared, but it's mean really dramatic changes in plpgsql code. I belive so separated

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Pavan Deolasee
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the idle thoughts in the middle of the night department: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080401 08:22]: From the idle thoughts in the middle of the night department: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single sequential pass over the

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] ANALYZE getting dead tuple count hopelessly wrong

2008-04-01 Thread Stuart Brooks
Please do --- I have a lot of other stuff on my plate. Please see the attached patch. One change I made is to hold the SHARE lock on the page while ANALYZE is reading tuples from it. I thought it would be a right thing to do instead of repeatedly acquiring/releasing the lock. I have

Re: [HACKERS] New boxes available for QA

2008-04-01 Thread Stephen Frost
Guillaume, * Guillaume Smet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: These servers are available 24/7 to PostgreSQL QA and won't be used for other purposes. Awesome. Concerning the second point, I wonder if it's not worth it to have a very simple thing already reporting results as the development cycle

[HACKERS] Scroll cursor oddity...

2008-04-01 Thread Mike Aubury
Does anyone know what the correct behaviour for a scroll cursor should be when you've scrolled past the end ? If you take this SQL for example : create temp table sometab ( a integer); insert into sometab values(1); insert into sometab values(2); insert into sometab values(3);

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Toru SHIMOGAKI
Andrew Dunstan wrote: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single sequential pass over the base table? It is already implemented in pg_bulkload

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Aidan Van Dyk wrote: * Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080401 08:22]: From the idle thoughts in the middle of the night department: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single

Re: [JDBC] [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Was the driver ever changed to take advantage of the above strategy? Well, it's automatic as long as you use the unnamed statement. About all that might need to be done on the client side is to use unnamed statements more often in preference to named ones,

Re: [JDBC] [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Dave Cramer
So if I write conn.prepareStatement(select col from table where col like ?) then setString(1,'hello%') The driver will do prepare foo as select col from table where col like $1 and then execute foo('hello%') this will take advantage of the strategy automatically ? If so this should be

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] ANALYZE getting dead tuple count hopelessly wrong

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 13:07 +0530, Pavan Deolasee wrote: Please see the attached patch. One change I made is to hold the SHARE lock on the page while ANALYZE is reading tuples from it. I thought it would be a right thing to do instead of repeatedly

Re: [JDBC] [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Michael Paesold
Am 01.04.2008 um 13:14 schrieb Dave Cramer: On 1-Apr-08, at 6:25 AM, Michael Paesold wrote: Am 01.04.2008 um 01:26 schrieb Tom Lane: While testing the changes I was making to Pavel's EXECUTE USING patch to ensure that parameter values were being provided to the planner, it became

Re: [JDBC] [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread PFC
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:06:01 +0200, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Was the driver ever changed to take advantage of the above strategy? Well, it's automatic as long as you use the unnamed statement. About all that might need to be done on the client

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] ANALYZE getting dead tuple count hopelessly wrong

2008-04-01 Thread Simon Riggs
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 10:22 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 13:07 +0530, Pavan Deolasee wrote: Please see the attached patch. One change I made is to hold the SHARE lock on the page while ANALYZE is reading tuples from it. I thought it

Re: [HACKERS] Scroll cursor oddity...

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Mike Aubury [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ie - under postgresql it appears we've scrolled *past* the last row and need an additional fetch to get back to our last row.. Why do you find that surprising? It seems to me to be symmetrical with the case at the beginning of the table --- the cursor is

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Aidan Van Dyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080401 08:22]: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single sequential pass over the base table? I've not

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] Avahi support for Postgresql

2008-04-01 Thread Mathias Hasselmann
Am Dienstag, den 01.04.2008, 12:02 + schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 09:35:56AM +0200, Mathias Hasselmann wrote: Am Samstag, den 29.03.2008, 12:25 + schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] Sorry for a dumb question, but

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] ANALYZE getting dead tuple count hopelessly wrong

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 10:22 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: In the fourth, if we actually believed this was a problem we'd need to redesign VACUUM too, as it does the same thing. VACUUM waits until nobody else has the buffer pinned, so lock contention is much

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] Avahi support for Postgresql

2008-04-01 Thread tomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 05:07:31PM +0200, Mathias Hasselmann wrote: [...] Personally, I'be rather scared than delighted ;-) So in data centers you don't even trust the machines in your broadcast domain? Kind of. Put it another way: never have

Re: [HACKERS] Debugging PostgreSQL with GDB

2008-04-01 Thread korry
I have problems on how to debug PostgreSQL on Linux using GDB. I made some changes to src/backend/utils/sort/tuplesort.c but it hangs while performing run formation (where my changes are). I configured it using ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/pgsql/8.3/ CFLAGS=-O0 -DTRACE_SORT

Re: [HACKERS] Debugging PostgreSQL with GDB

2008-04-01 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Manolo SupaMA wrote: Hi. I have problems on how to debug PostgreSQL on Linux using GDB. I made some changes to src/backend/utils/sort/tuplesort.c but it hangs while performing run formation (where my changes are). I configured it using ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/pgsql/8.3/

[HACKERS] Debugging PostgreSQL with GDB

2008-04-01 Thread Manolo SupaMA
Hi. I have problems on how to debug PostgreSQL on Linux using GDB. I made some changes to src/backend/utils/sort/tuplesort.c but it hangs while performing run formation (where my changes are). I configured it using ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/pgsql/8.3/ CFLAGS=-O0 -DTRACE_SORT

[HACKERS] Several tags around PostgreSQL 7.1 broken

2008-04-01 Thread Peter Eisentraut
I have now managed to investigate why some conversions of the PostgreSQL CVS repository to other formats are having trouble or are failing. Here, I am looking at git-cvsimport in particular. The problem appears to be that several tags around the time of PostgreSQL 7.1 are broken or

Re: [HACKERS] Cast as compound type

2008-04-01 Thread David Fetter
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 07:18:43PM -0400, Korry Douglas wrote: David Fetter wrote: I'd like to take a whack at making set-returning functions returning SETOF RECORD a little more fun to use. Let's imagine that we have a table foo and a function returning SETOF RECORD that can return foos.

Re: [HACKERS] Several tags around PostgreSQL 7.1 broken

2008-04-01 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
. * Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080401 12:01]: I have now managed to investigate why some conversions of the PostgreSQL CVS repository to other formats are having trouble or are failing. Here, I am looking at git-cvsimport in particular. The problem appears to be that several

Re: [HACKERS] Several tags around PostgreSQL 7.1 broken

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the meantime, does anyone have more information about how this came about? Marc's always done both the tagging and the tarball-making, so you'd have to ask him about that. I believe he's made it more scripted over the years, so this might reflect a

Re: [HACKERS] Several tags around PostgreSQL 7.1 broken

2008-04-01 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080401 14:15]: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the meantime, does anyone have more information about how this came about? Marc's always done both the tagging and the tarball-making, so you'd have to ask him about that. I believe he's made it

[HACKERS] Access to Row ID information in Functions

2008-04-01 Thread Paul Ramsey
In PostGIS, we have a problem, in that spatial operations are very costly, CPUwise. We have hit on a nifty enhancement recently, which was to recognize that when processing multiple rows, in joins or with literal argouments, for most functions of the form GeometryOperation(A, B), A (or B) tended

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] ANALYZE getting dead tuple count hopelessly wrong

2008-04-01 Thread Gregory Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 13:07 +0530, Pavan Deolasee wrote: Please see the attached patch. One change I made is to hold the SHARE lock on the page while ANALYZE is reading tuples from it. I thought it would be a right

Re: [HACKERS] Scroll cursor oddity...

2008-04-01 Thread Gregory Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mike Aubury [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ie - under postgresql it appears we've scrolled *past* the last row and need an additional fetch to get back to our last row.. Why do you find that surprising? It seems to me to be symmetrical with the case at the

[HACKERS] Lots and lots of strdup's (bug #4079)

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
I looked into the complaint here http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2008-04/msg5.php about 8.3 being a lot slower than 8.2. Apparently what he's doing is sending a whole lot of INSERT commands in a single query string. And, sure enough, 8.3 is a lot slower. The oprofile output is,

Re: [HACKERS] Scroll cursor oddity...

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Gregory Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What's implied by that but perhaps not clear is that it's easier to think of cursors as being *between* rows rather than *on* rows. I'm not sure the standard entirely adopts that model however. That's an interesting way of thinking about it, but I think

Re: [HACKERS] Access to Row ID information in Functions

2008-04-01 Thread Tom Lane
Paul Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The optimized form gets cached and retrieved from a memory context. Each time the function is run within a statement it checks the cache, and sees if one of its arguments are the same as the last time around. If so, it uses the prepared version of that

Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] Avahi support for Postgresql

2008-04-01 Thread Murray Cumming
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 15:34 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would really prefer a more loosely coupled system. The functionality will be much the same. The implementation would be more difficult and obscure and there would be more points of failure and more things to configure, but it wouldn't

Re: [HACKERS] Access to Row ID information in Functions

2008-04-01 Thread Paul Ramsey
Thanks Tom, Yes, we've discussed adding some kind of optional identity information to the object, it remains a potential course of action. Paul On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The optimized form gets cached and

[HACKERS] column level privileges

2008-04-01 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Apologies if this gets duplicated - original seems to have been dropped due to patch size - this time I am sending it gzipped. cheers andrew Original Message Subject:column level privileges Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 08:32:25 -0400 From: Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL

Re: [HACKERS] Submission of Feature Request : RFC- for Implementing Transparent Data Encryption in P

2008-04-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
sanjay sharma wrote: Hello Heikki, Although the solution could be implemented using views and functions and I am implementing a reference application using this approach but TDE can greatly reduce the design and maintenance complexcity. It would also take care of data protection in

Re: [HACKERS] New boxes available for QA

2008-04-01 Thread Greg Smith
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Guillaume Smet wrote: I wonder if it's not worth it to have a very simple thing already reporting results as the development cycle for 8.4 has already started (perhaps several pgbench unit tests testing various type of queries with a daily tree) The pgbench-tools

Re: [JDBC] Re: [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Greg Smith
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Guillaume Smet wrote: A good answer is probably to plan optional JDBC benchmarks in the benchfarm design - not all people want to run Java on their boxes but we have servers of our own to do so. The original pgbench was actually based on an older test named JDBCbench.

Re: [HACKERS] New boxes available for QA

2008-04-01 Thread Stephen Frost
* Greg Smith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: =4 cores, =8GB RAM, and =8 disks with a usable write-caching controller in it. hrmmm. So a DL385G2, dual-proc/dual-core with 16GB of ram and 8 SAS disks with a Smart Array P800 w/ 512MB of write cache would be helpful? I've got quite a few such

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
Andrew Dunstan wrote: From the idle thoughts in the middle of the night department: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single sequential pass over the base table? If so, that

Re: [JDBC] Re: [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Guillaume Smet
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:05 AM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure if all of those changes are net positive for PostgreSQL though, they weren't last time I played with this. I fixed most of the bugs of JDBCBench I found when I benchmarked Sequoia a long time ago. Totally forgot

Re: [HACKERS] Several tags around PostgreSQL 7.1 broken

2008-04-01 Thread Marc G. Fournier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - --On Tuesday, April 01, 2008 14:06:09 -0400 Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the meantime, does anyone have more information about how this came about? Marc's always done both the tagging and

Re: [JDBC] Re: [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Dave Cramer
Guillaume, I for one would be very interested in the JDBCBench code. Dave On 1-Apr-08, at 8:35 PM, Guillaume Smet wrote: On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:05 AM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure if all of those changes are net positive for PostgreSQL though, they weren't last time I

Re: [HACKERS] New boxes available for QA

2008-04-01 Thread Guillaume Smet
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 1:53 AM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The pgbench-tools utilities I was working on at one point anticipated this sort of test starting one day. You can't really get useful results out of pgbench without running it enough times that you get average or median

Re: [HACKERS] New boxes available for QA

2008-04-01 Thread Guillaume Smet
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm almost done scripting up everything to load the TIGER/Line Shapefiles from the US Census into PostgreSQL/PostGIS. Once it's done and working I would be happy to provide it to whomever asks, and it might be an

Re: [JDBC] Re: [HACKERS] How embarrassing: optimization of a one-shot query doesn't work

2008-04-01 Thread Guillaume Smet
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:53 AM, Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I for one would be very interested in the JDBCBench code. OK, I didn't make anything fancy, I just fixed the problem I encountered when profiling Sequoia (I mostly used it as an injector). I'll post the code tomorrow if I can

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread ITAGAKI Takahiro
Toru SHIMOGAKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single sequential pass over the base table? It is already implemented in pg_bulkload (http://pgbulkload.projects.postgresql.org/). I think there are two

Re: [HACKERS] column level privileges

2008-04-01 Thread sanjay sharma
Hello Andrew, When do you expect this patch to go in production and available for public use? I would keep an eye for its release. Sanjay Sharma Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:40:24 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: [HACKERS] column level privileges

Re: [HACKERS] column level privileges

2008-04-01 Thread Andrew Dunstan
The earliest will be 8.4, which is many many months away. It should be possible to produce a patch for 8.3 if you're interested. cheers andrew sanjay sharma wrote: Hello Andrew, When do you expect this patch to go in production and available for public use? I would keep an eye for its

[HACKERS] Update to patch queue web page

2008-04-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
I have updated the patch queue web page so that I can move related threads into a single thread, and have done so for the remaining emails. I have also improved the appearance using CSS markup. The new Append to Message-ID currently is only possible for me but I can give other access as needed.

[HACKERS] varadic patch

2008-04-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
Because of this: variadic function, named params exist only as WIP and I see it for next commit fest. I'll send new version in next months. This has been saved for the next commit-fest: http://momjian.postgresql.org/cgi-bin/pgpatches_hold

Re: [HACKERS] build multiple indexes in single table pass?

2008-04-01 Thread Greg Smith
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Andrew Dunstan wrote: I don't know if this has come up before exactly, but is it possible that we could get a performance gain from building multiple indexes from a single sequential pass over the base table? It pops up regularly, you might even have walked by a

Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] SHA1 on postgres 8.3

2008-04-01 Thread Bruce Momjian
There isn't enough agreement to move some things from pgcrypto to the core so this thread is being removed from the patch queue. --- Bruce Momjian wrote: I am not thrilled about moving _some_ of pgcrypto into the backend