Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-02-13 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Peter Eisentraut píše v čt 12. 02. 2009 v 15:30 +0200: I am not aware of any server changes needed for 8.3-8.4 migration. OK, Zdenek, any concerns, or can we consider this chapter closed? I think, that it is closed now. Space reservation will be backported if we need it for 8.4-8.5. And

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-02-12 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Thursday 12 February 2009 05:15:02 Bruce Momjian wrote: I am working on pg_migrator TODO items. My current list is: [long] Can we clarify now that this is not going to ship with the PostgreSQL 8.4 tarball? I am not aware of any server changes needed for 8.3-8.4 migration. OK, Zdenek, any

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-02-12 Thread Bruce Momjian
Peter Eisentraut wrote: On Thursday 12 February 2009 05:15:02 Bruce Momjian wrote: I am working on pg_migrator TODO items. My current list is: [long] Can we clarify now that this is not going to ship with the PostgreSQL 8.4 tarball? That is not really my decision, but I am not going to

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-02-11 Thread Bruce Momjian
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Now that pg_migrator is BSD licensed, and already in C, I am going to spend my time trying to improve pg_migrator for 8.4: http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pg-migrator/ What is the plan now? Get pg_upgrade working, get pg_migrator

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-02-10 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Bruce Momjian wrote: Now that pg_migrator is BSD licensed, and already in C, I am going to spend my time trying to improve pg_migrator for 8.4: http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pg-migrator/ What is the plan now? Get pg_upgrade working, get pg_migrator working, ship pg_migrator in core

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-02-07 Thread Bruce Momjian
Zdenek Kotala wrote: The current project is not in good shape. Feature freeze is coming and nothing is committed. Currently there are three patches in the game: 1) Space reservation http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00886.php

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-29 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Thursday 29 January 2009 01:05:07 Tom Lane wrote: The appeal of the pg_dump approach is that it will automatically handle everything that there exists a plain-SQL representation for, which is to say darn near everything.  We will need special purpose code to deal with the dropped-column and

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-29 Thread Greg Stark
Hm the previous proposal was to add syntax to create table to create placeholder columns of specified width. On the one hand the special syntax is less kludgy but on the other hand keeping all the compatibility code in pg_dump is attractive. Net I think prefer your solution. I don't

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-29 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Bruce Momjian píše v st 28. 01. 2009 v 23:19 -0500: I am stumped as well. In the 12 years I have been involved, there are perhaps five issues that the original pg_upgrade written in 1998 didn't handle, and mostly handles now. Considering the number of catalog changes since 1998, the ratio

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-29 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Tom Lane píše v st 28. 01. 2009 v 18:05 -0500: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: I really like this idea, assuming I understand it. Basically, I think you're proposing that we move the old system catalogs out of the way, bootstrap a new catalog, and then using SQL (running inside

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Heikki Linnakangas píše v st 28. 01. 2009 v 09:24 +0200: Tom Lane wrote: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: That implies a fairly robust and configurable system for adding to and rewriting system catalogs, which today we haven't got. And we won't ever have, because it's

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Stephen Frost
* Zdenek Kotala (zdenek.kot...@sun.com) wrote: And very important thing is that you need old version of postgreSQL installed, which is something what packagers does not want. Look on Oracle how does it. Just as a counter-point, Debian handles multiple concurrently installed versions of

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Tom Lane
Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com writes: Heikki Linnakangas píše v st 28. 01. 2009 v 09:24 +0200: Right, the dump+initdb+reload approach works quite well in both pg_upgrade and pg-migrator. I believe the biggest issue with that ATM is supporting dropped columns, and maybe there's

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Tom Lane
Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net writes: * Zdenek Kotala (zdenek.kot...@sun.com) wrote: And very important thing is that you need old version of postgreSQL installed, which is something what packagers does not want. Look on Oracle how does it. Just as a counter-point, Debian handles multiple

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com writes: Heikki Linnakangas píše v st 28. 01. 2009 v 09:24 +0200: Right, the dump+initdb+reload approach works quite well in both pg_upgrade and pg-migrator. I believe the biggest issue with

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Sure, but the other way is just a complete non-starter. Well, the goal of coding is to make such things easier. Already the solution you're advocating has one huge wart: the need to

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Tom Lane píše v st 28. 01. 2009 v 14:06 -0500: Trying to do catalog upgrade in-place is going to be a complete mess. I'd be interested to know, for example, how you imagine rearranging the contents of pg_class would work. You don't get to modify pg_class if you can't even find it, which

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: Tom Lane píše v st 28. 01. 2009 v 14:06 -0500: Trying to do catalog upgrade in-place is going to be a complete mess. I'd be interested to know, for example, how you imagine rearranging the contents of pg_class would

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: I really like this idea, assuming I understand it. Basically, I think you're proposing that we move the old system catalogs out of the way, bootstrap a new catalog, and then using SQL (running inside a standalone backend?) to migrate data from the

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Robert Haas
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Well, what it really means is that all the special-purpose conversion code is in SQL instead of C. Which is sort of good as long as whatever transformation you have in mind can be done easily in SQL. (Good luck if you need

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-28 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: The appeal of the pg_dump approach is that it will automatically handle everything that there exists a plain-SQL representation for, which is to say darn near everything. We will need special purpose code to deal with the dropped-column and TOAST-oid issues, but that can

[HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
The current project is not in good shape. Feature freeze is coming and nothing is committed. Currently there are three patches in the game: 1) Space reservation http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00886.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-01/msg02031.php

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Zdenek Kotala wrote: The current project is not in good shape. Feature freeze is coming and nothing is committed. Currently there are three patches in the game: [...] 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Zdenek Kotala wrote: 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for catalog conversion. It works for 8.3-8.4 upgrade. It will be useful while we will not have better solution. Disadvantage is that it is

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: Zdenek Kotala wrote: 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for catalog conversion. It works for 8.3-8.4 upgrade. It will be useful while we will not have better

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows actually. It doesn't sound too onerous a requirement if you want in-place upgrade; actually it looks a very reasonable one. There are installers for it, but

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Kenneth Marshall
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:39:50AM -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote: Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: Zdenek Kotala wrote: 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for catalog conversion. It works for

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: The current project is not in good shape. Feature freeze is coming and nothing is committed. Currently there are three patches in the game: Correction: feature freeze is long past. 1) Space reservation

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Zdenek Kotala wrote: 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for catalog conversion. It works for 8.3-8.4 upgrade. What's the reason this script uses a postmaster? It seems it would be easier to control if you used a

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Merlin Moncure
On 1/27/09, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: This patch is mandatory for page online conversion and MUST TO be part of postgreSQL 8.4. if not ... then we will be at the beginning next year. Just to clarify, does that mean that your patch has to be in for there to be any chance of

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: Zdenek Kotala wrote: 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for catalog conversion. It works for 8.3-8.4 upgrade. It will be useful while we will not have better

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Dave Page wrote: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows actually. It doesn't sound too onerous a requirement if you want in-place upgrade; actually it looks a very reasonable one. There are

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Tom Lane
Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org writes: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows actually. It doesn't sound too onerous a requirement if you want in-place upgrade; actually it looks a very reasonable

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Magnus Hagander
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: Zdenek Kotala wrote: 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for catalog conversion. It works for 8.3-8.4 upgrade. It will be useful while we

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: Dave Page wrote: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows actually. It doesn't sound too onerous a requirement if

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Stephen Frost
* Magnus Hagander (mag...@hagander.net) wrote: Either way, there's no point to discuss that in detail until there actually is a working implementation out there... perl will do fine until then. Once we have that, we can discuss if doing it in C will be worthwhile, or if we're just going to

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Stephen Frost
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote: [pg_upgrade...] Why is the deadline different than anything else? err, isn't it because it'd be kind of difficult to do an upgrade script with large catalog-changing patches outstanding..? I thought some leeway was given for pg_upgrade specifically

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Robert Haas
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net wrote: * Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote: [pg_upgrade...] Why is the deadline different than anything else? err, isn't it because it'd be kind of difficult to do an upgrade script with large catalog-changing patches

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Harald Armin Massa
I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows actually. It doesn't sound too onerous a requirement if you want in-place upgrade; actually it looks a very reasonable one. Much more reasonable than Korn shell in any case (or any shell for that matter; I think anything is going to be

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Kaare Rasmussen
Hi I have had a very brief look at this. Translation to perl doesn't look difficult. I'll see what I can do during the next week or so. Perhaps I can lend you a hand if you need help with this. -- Med venlig hilsen Kaare Rasmussen, Jasonic Jasonic Telefon: +45 3816 2582

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Harald Armin Massa wrote: I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows actually. It doesn't sound too onerous a requirement if you want in-place upgrade; actually it looks a very reasonable one. Much more reasonable than Korn shell in any case (or any shell for that matter; I think

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Alvaro Herrera píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 11:47 -0300: Zdenek Kotala wrote: 2) pg_upgrade.sh http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00248.php Pg_upgrade.sh is shell script for catalog conversion. It works for 8.3-8.4 upgrade. What's the reason this script uses a

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:48 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: We don't require perl for any other feature, do we? Seems like a pretty onerous requireemnt for Windows in particular. We do use perl in the build scripts, but that's only required if you want to compile from source. Well,

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Joshua D. Drake wrote: On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:48 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: We don't require perl for any other feature, do we? Seems like a pretty onerous requireemnt for Windows in particular. We do use perl in the build scripts, but that's only required if you want to compile

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 10:56 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: That's what my brief examination of the script was about - looking to see if it could be translated portably. I think it very probably can. I suspect it won't need any modules at all. I suspect any Accidental ctrl-enter? O.k.

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Kenneth Marshall
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 04:23:18PM +0100, Harald Armin Massa wrote: I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows actually. It doesn't sound too onerous a requirement if you want in-place upgrade; actually it looks a very reasonable one. Much more reasonable than Korn shell in any

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Merlin Moncure píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 09:47 -0500: On 1/27/09, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: This patch is mandatory for page online conversion and MUST TO be part of postgreSQL 8.4. if not ... then we will be at the beginning next year. Just to clarify, does that mean

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Robert Haas píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 09:45 -0500: 1) Space reservation http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00886.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-01/msg02031.php This patch is mandatory for page online conversion and MUST TO be part of

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Magnus Hagander píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 15:54 +0100: I have a hard time thinking that we'll have wasted a lot of time on first doing a perl implementation if we have to rewrite it in C later. The other way around would be a waste though. The amount of time spent on the perl implementation

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Dave Page píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 14:56 +: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: Dave Page wrote: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: I think it's fairly easy to install Perl on Windows

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Zdenek Kotala wrote: Robert Haas píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 09:45 -0500: 1) Space reservation http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00886.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-01/msg02031.php This patch is mandatory for page online conversion and MUST TO be

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Zdenek Kotala wrote: Magnus Hagander píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 15:54 +0100: I have a hard time thinking that we'll have wasted a lot of time on first doing a perl implementation if we have to rewrite it in C later. The other way around would be a waste though. The amount of time spent on the

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Heikki Linnakangas píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 21:07 +0200: Zdenek Kotala wrote: Robert Haas píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 09:45 -0500: 1) Space reservation http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-12/msg00886.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-01/msg02031.php

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Tom Lane
Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com writes: Merlin Moncure píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 09:47 -0500: Just to clarify, does that mean that your patch has to be in for there to be any chance of in-place upgrade 8.4-8.5? Ok, There two patch in the queue for 8.5 which will bump page layout

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: Dave Page píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 14:56 +: I'd rather it was written in an appropriate language before feature freeze, not in a language that makes it easier for the author but a shade harder for thousands of

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Zdenek Kotala wrote: Set general value for heap or btree is possible but not optimal. For example If you have 5TB table and page layout changes do not affected this table but some small table needs perform a cleanup then 5TB will be processed in general approach, but in optimal variant it will

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Heikki Linnakangas píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 21:13 +0200: Zdenek Kotala wrote: Magnus Hagander píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 15:54 +0100: I have a hard time thinking that we'll have wasted a lot of time on first doing a perl implementation if we have to rewrite it in C later. The other way

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Tom Lane píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 14:31 -0500: Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com writes: Merlin Moncure píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 09:47 -0500: Just to clarify, does that mean that your patch has to be in for there to be any chance of in-place upgrade 8.4-8.5? Ok, There two patch in

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Heikki Linnakangas píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 21:37 +0200: Zdenek Kotala wrote: Set general value for heap or btree is possible but not optimal. For example If you have 5TB table and page layout changes do not affected this table but some small table needs perform a cleanup then 5TB will be

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 20:46 +0100, Zdenek Kotala wrote: And last I think license is not BSD, I don't know how big problem it is. Uhh.. that kills it. We only accept BSD. Joshua D. Drake Zdenek -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdr...@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development,

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Josh Berkus
Joshua D. Drake wrote: On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 20:46 +0100, Zdenek Kotala wrote: And last I think license is not BSD, I don't know how big problem it is. Uhh.. that kills it. We only accept BSD. Actually, that was just fixed. Once somebody raised the issue, EDB changed the license (there

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Joshua D. Drake wrote: On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 20:46 +0100, Zdenek Kotala wrote: And last I think license is not BSD, I don't know how big problem it is. Uhh.. that kills it. We only accept BSD. Actually, it has been relicensed to BSD license, after a short discussion started by Bruce

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 22:12 +0200, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 20:46 +0100, Zdenek Kotala wrote: And last I think license is not BSD, I don't know how big problem it is. Uhh.. that kills it. We only accept BSD. Actually, it has been

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Dave Page píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 19:36 +: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: Dave Page píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 14:56 +: I'd rather it was written in an appropriate language before feature freeze, not in a language that makes it easier

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: Dave Page píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 19:36 +: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: Dave Page píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 14:56 +: I'd rather it was written in an

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Dave Page píše v út 27. 01. 2009 v 20:36 +: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: Neither of which are the correct place to submit work for inclusion in PostgreSQL. http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-04/msg00990.php I sent it

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 21:36:01 Dave Page wrote: If it's been around for a year, why hasn't it been submitted long ago so we could have rewritten and reviewed etc. in plenty of time? It's in the commit fest listing, and the discussion about which programming language to port it to

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Zdenek Kotala zdenek.kot...@sun.com wrote: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-04/msg01051.php But you can read there that it is korn shell script and there is link to it. OK, yes that does mention it. It's not exactly clear that it's something

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 16:52:15 Tom Lane wrote: Indeed. We might put up with a perl script for awhile for the sake of development expediency, but the long-term expectation would have to be that someone would rewrite it in C. Given that, I wonder whether there's much point in a rewrite

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 16:54:02 Magnus Hagander wrote: Either way, there's no point to discuss that in detail until there actually is a working implementation out there... perl will do fine until then There is a working implementation out there. It is -- you guessed it -- sitting in the

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Dave Page
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: On Tuesday 27 January 2009 21:36:01 Dave Page wrote: If it's been around for a year, why hasn't it been submitted long ago so we could have rewritten and reviewed etc. in plenty of time? It's in the commit fest listing,

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 17:27:32 Kaare Rasmussen wrote: Hi I have had a very brief look at this. Translation to perl doesn't look difficult. I'll see what I can do during the next week or so. Perhaps I can lend you a hand if you need help with this. Not to stop you are anything, but in

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Greg Smith
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009, Peter Eisentraut wrote: On Tuesday 27 January 2009 21:36:01 Dave Page wrote: If it's been around for a year, why hasn't it been submitted long ago so we could have rewritten and reviewed etc. in plenty of time? It's in the commit fest listing, and the discussion about

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Peter Eisentraut
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 23:02:30 Dave Page wrote: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net wrote: On Tuesday 27 January 2009 21:36:01 Dave Page wrote: If it's been around for a year, why hasn't it been submitted long ago so we could have rewritten and reviewed

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut pete...@gmx.net writes: On Tuesday 27 January 2009 16:52:15 Tom Lane wrote: Indeed. We might put up with a perl script for awhile for the sake of development expediency, but the long-term expectation would have to be that someone would rewrite it in C. Given that, I wonder

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Robert Haas
I thought we pretty much had agreement that space reservation was not a good solution to anything, although I admit I'm not quite clear on what alternative was being proposed. Maybe I miss something, but space reservation was selected as a best way. Please, Could you point me related mailing

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Robert Haas
for getting 8.4-8.5 upgrade into place. You should first work on an update process that supports catalog changes, and get that committed. Once that's in place you'll have enough political capital to prevent changes in user data layout, and then we'd start to think about schemes like space

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Tom Lane
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: That implies a fairly robust and configurable system for adding to and rewriting system catalogs, which today we haven't got. And we won't ever have, because it's unnecessary and would be impossibly complex. We know how to do the catalog update:

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Greg Smith
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009, Robert Haas wrote: That implies a fairly robust and configurable system for adding to and rewriting system catalogs, which today we haven't got. Right, and designing such a system requires a fairly deep analysis of the catalog changes that have historically shown up, to

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2009-01-27 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Tom Lane wrote: Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: That implies a fairly robust and configurable system for adding to and rewriting system catalogs, which today we haven't got. And we won't ever have, because it's unnecessary and would be impossibly complex. We know how to do the

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2008-11-11 Thread Bruce Momjian
Zdenek Kotala wrote: Bruce Momjian napsal(a): Zdenek Kotala wrote: In the last week community made decision about pg_upgrade project and its implementation. I would like to try summarize this conclusion and I add other topic which should be finished for 8.4. Convert on read has

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2008-11-11 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Bruce Momjian napsal(a): Zdenek Kotala wrote: Bruce Momjian napsal(a): Zdenek Kotala wrote: snip 1) Data does not fit on the new page. It will be solve by pre-upgrade check which reserve space on each page, before upgrade. Rather than specifying free space as an amount, I was thinking of

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2008-11-11 Thread Zdenek Kotala
Bruce Momjian napsal(a): Zdenek Kotala wrote: In the last week community made decision about pg_upgrade project and its implementation. I would like to try summarize this conclusion and I add other topic which should be finished for 8.4. Convert on read has been selected as a good way,

[HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2008-11-10 Thread Zdenek Kotala
In the last week community made decision about pg_upgrade project and its implementation. I would like to try summarize this conclusion and I add other topic which should be finished for 8.4. Convert on read has been selected as a good way, because it is not invasive and does not limit fresh

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2008-11-10 Thread Bruce Momjian
Zdenek Kotala wrote: In the last week community made decision about pg_upgrade project and its implementation. I would like to try summarize this conclusion and I add other topic which should be finished for 8.4. Convert on read has been selected as a good way, because it is not invasive

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2008-11-10 Thread Gregory Stark
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1) Data does not fit on the new page. It will be solve by pre-upgrade check which reserve space on each page, before upgrade. Rather than specifying free space as an amount, I was thinking of having a boolean like 'ready_for_upgrade' and the system

Re: [HACKERS] pg_upgrade project status

2008-11-10 Thread Bruce Momjian
Gregory Stark wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1) Data does not fit on the new page. It will be solve by pre-upgrade check which reserve space on each page, before upgrade. Rather than specifying free space as an amount, I was thinking of having a boolean like