[HACKERS] Weirdness with =?
I had this code in a script: UPDATE food_foods SET included=true WHERE verification_status = 'I'; UPDATE food_foods SET included=false WHERE verification_status IS NULL; I tried replacing it with: UPDATE food_foods SET included=(verification_status = 'I'); However, that set included to true only where verification_status=I, it didn't set false at all. Why doesn't this work? Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] GRANT/REVOKE: Allow column-level privileges
2. deal with circles in GRANT graph. Can you give an examle for how this is any different for column-level GRANTs? When judging if there are any circles in the grant graph, we can represent table priviledges as column priviledges, thus make things easier. I have not think hard enought to figure out a better algorithm. Another problem is, should we allow any circles to be formed when executing GRANTs? Say: grantor1, grantee1, object1, priviledge1, with grant option, grantee1, grantee2, object1, priviledge1, with grant option, grantee2, grantor1, object1, priviledge1, with grant option, should the third GRANT be executed successfuly? I remember that MSSQL 2000 and ORACLE 9i are different. William ZHANG ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
Robert Treat wrote: On Sunday 29 January 2006 22:23, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Mark Kirkwood said: ... A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that will download, build and install module foo for you. Then we could publish many many modules on pgfoundry, their authors could look after them, and installing them would be trivial. pgxs should make such a thing a lot simpler in many cases. Of course, building it would be quite a bit of work :-) Actually I don't think it would be all that hard. You just need to have each project produce an xml file with bits of package information (name, dependencies, version info, etc...) which could then be combined with all the other packages to produce a complete list of available packages. While I'm all for the idea, I don't think the effort should be underestimated. At least it must be *very* well scoped. Chances are, it becomes extremely huge and complex task. Here are some thoughts that might be worth considering: The version-info and dependencies tend to become quite complex very fast, especially if you have an arbitrary depth in component dependencies. You need to define how soft your versioned dependencies are for instance, i.e. is a dependency to 1.0.4 of some component automatically supplanted when a new bug fix (1.0.5) is published? If not, can I still get the source for 1.0.4 should I require it? Will there be a source repository where all old bundles are found? How is that repository maintained and structured? The meta-data that describes versions of a component and the dependencies that each version have (they may vary), where does that live? What happens if, when you resolve the dependencies for a certain configuration, end up with a graph where you have two versions of the same component? You then just need a binary installed with postgresql that can grab the latest copy of the xml list so it can present a list of packages to install. It then downloads the packages from pgfoundry directly. You have a binary so I guess that installing other packages means installing other binaries? Are they presumed to be found in a binary form at PgFoundry or must they be compiled? If it's the former, then maintaining binaries is a huge undertaking. Matching binary dependencies can be a really complex task, even if the platform is one and the same. If it's the latter, you impose a development environment on the end user. In the windows world, thats' probably equal to a Msys/MinGW installation (shrug). Some packages will perhaps not require compilation but must attach to some other prerequisite software that must be installed on your machine (a specific version of Perl or Java VM for instance). How would the modules express such dependencies? Perhaps they can be fulfilled in a multitude of ways? To cope with that, you must introduce virtual components (interfaces with multiple implementations). Are you thinking a generic package-install program that will function on all platforms or do you suggest something that platform specific installers can hook into? For instance, how does the Windows installer fit in? The biggest issue is probably getting the various packages to provide a similar structure for downloading, but if you got the base system working I think they would be willing to comply. Some packages have dependencies to packages that already provide such a structure (CPAN, Ruby, Maven, to name a few). A packaging tool that make things easy to install must be able to cope with that too, which makes things even worse. Kind regards, Thomas Hallgren ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] Weirdness with
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 04:44:21PM +0800, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: I had this code in a script: UPDATE food_foods SET included=true WHERE verification_status = 'I'; UPDATE food_foods SET included=false WHERE verification_status IS NULL; I tried replacing it with: UPDATE food_foods SET included=(verification_status = 'I'); (NULL = 'I') is null, not false. It will simply set rows where verification_status is NULL to NULL also. Perhaps you mean IS NOT DISTNCT FROM or something similar? Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout kleptog@svana.org http://svana.org/kleptog/ Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone else to do the other 95% so you can sue them. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 10:25:39AM +0100, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Actually I don't think it would be all that hard. You just need to have each project produce an xml file with bits of package information (name, dependencies, version info, etc...) which could then be combined with all the other packages to produce a complete list of available packages. While I'm all for the idea, I don't think the effort should be underestimated. At least it must be *very* well scoped. Chances are, it becomes extremely huge and complex task. Here are some thoughts that might be worth considering: snip To be honest, I think XML is way overkill. Simply provide a makefile that has the targets install-check, build and install and maybe also check. Provide a standard way for people to download projects. CPAN is a nice example, but really it's mostly a frontend to makefiles. IMHO, stuff on PgFoundry it not going to become popular because we put links there. It's going to become popular if/when other distributors can write things like: for i in list of projects ; do download package unpack make install-check (check if dependacies are good) make build make install build package from installed stuff done If the makefiles support DESTDIR and a few other such variables, something like Debian could make a postgresql-goodies. Currently Debian provides contrib because it's got a standard method of compiling. A good test is just unpacking the project in the contrib directory of the postgresql source and running make. If it produces something that works, you've got the problem licked. Similarly for RPMs, if a standard top-level spec file can make a working package, it's going to be easier for other people to incorporate. You then just need a binary installed with postgresql that can grab the latest copy of the xml list so it can present a list of packages to install. It then downloads the packages from pgfoundry directly. I suppose the only thing that really needs to happen is some kind of index that can be downloaded so people can find stuff. And so an automated program can actually download the right file. I think worrying about dependancies at this stage is overkill. Let get things to the stage where people can say: $ make install-check *** Sorry, foomatic 1.07 must be installed And then we can worry about automatically resolving them. Some packages have dependencies to packages that already provide such a structure (CPAN, Ruby, Maven, to name a few). A packaging tool that make things easy to install must be able to cope with that too, which makes things even worse. I don't think that's a real issue. For example, I use Debian. If something on PgFoundry has been packaged as a Debian package, I'm ten times more likely to install it than otherwise. What we should be aiming for is making stuff easy enough to install so that someone in an afternoon can download 10 projects and create 10 Debian packages, 10 Redhat packages or 10 MSI installer packages. This is a much easier task for us because only have to provide the mechanism but not all the handholding. It also means the end result is something that integrates with the users system better because the packager can tweak it for the environment, and the author doesn't need to care. Indeed, most of the popular pgfoundry projects have already been packaged. Which was first, the popularity or the packaging? Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout kleptog@svana.org http://svana.org/kleptog/ Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone else to do the other 95% so you can sue them. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [HACKERS] Question about postgresql-8.1.2-1-binaries-no-installer.zip(win32)
It's used for ecpg, IIRC, when compiled in thread-safe mode. //Magnus Thanks Magnus, Here is another question for you. Is it documented anywhere or does someone know what is the bare minimum requirements to run the server on a production box? No, I don't think so :-) I want to create the litest possible setup for use in my IM server (Lightning Messenger), and eliminate any unneeded files so I can have the smallest setup I can get. I already have a complete working setup built with Inno setup(it's 4.8 mb), now I just need to get it as lite as posssible. Well, for starters, build from source. Don't enable things like SSL, NLS, PLs etc. That'll give you smaller binaries. You can skip a bunch of conversions if you're never going to need them. ANd of course, you don't need things like libpostgres.a. As for the actual binaries, you need postgres and postmaster. All the rest are optional (though you're probably goping to want initdb). The only DLL needed should be libpq.dll - assuming you didn't put in support for ssl, kerberos, nls etc. //Magnus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Question about postgresql-8.1.2-1-binaries-no-installer.zip(win32)
Magnus Hagander wrote: I want to create the litest possible setup for use in my IM server (Lightning Messenger), and eliminate any unneeded files so I can have the smallest setup I can get. I already have a complete working setup built with Inno setup(it's 4.8 mb), now I just need to get it as lite as posssible. Well, for starters, build from source. Don't enable things like SSL, NLS, PLs etc. That'll give you smaller binaries. You can skip a bunch of conversions if you're never going to need them. ANd of course, you don't need things like libpostgres.a. As for the actual binaries, you need postgres and postmaster. All the rest are optional (though you're probably goping to want initdb). The only DLL needed should be libpq.dll - assuming you didn't put in support for ssl, kerberos, nls etc. you also probably want pg_ctl. It's pretty light, though. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
Josh Berkus wrote: Andrew, A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that will download, build and install module foo for you. Then we could publish many many modules on pgfoundry, their authors could look after them, and installing them would be trivial. pgxs should make such a thing a lot simpler in many cases. Of course, building it would be quite a bit of work :-) Yeah, just ask the Perl folks. I believe that CPAN took about 4 years to get working. They were kinda blazing a trail. I don't think Ruby Gems took anything like that long to flesh out. I agree with most of what Martijn said elsewhere. We shouldn't try to overengineer something like this. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
Michael Fuhr wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 12:20:25PM +0900, Michael Glaesemann wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 12:23 , Andrew Dunstan wrote: A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that will download, build and install module foo for you. CPAN modules, Ruby gems, PgFoundry ingots? :) Tusks? (Extensions of the elephant.) Trunks? cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] GRANT/REVOKE: Allow column-level privileges
kevin brintnall [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... (SQL99, 10.5 privileges, General Rules, 15-18) 15) SELECT with neither privilege column list nor privilege method list specifies the SELECT privilege on all columns of T including any ^ columns subsequently added to T and implies a table privilege descriptor ^^^ That is exactly what I wanted to point out. We should record in some place that the grantee will have SELECT priviledge on any newly created columns. e.g. GRANT SELECT ON tab TO grantee; can be represented as tab, grantee, table priviledge SELECT after REVOKE SELECT (c1) ON tab FROM grantee; tab, grantee, pseduo table priviledge SELECT tab/c2, grantee, column priviledge SELECT tab/c3, grantee, column priviledge SELECT when ALTER TABLE tab ADD COLUMN c4 CHAR(8); we can use tab, grantee, pseduo table priviledge SELECT to deduce: tab/c4, grantee, column priviledge SELECT and one or more column privilege descriptors. If T is a table of a structured type TY, then SELECT also specifies the SELECT privilege on all methods of the type TY, including any methods subsequently added to the type TY, and implies one or more table/method privilege descriptors. Aside from checking the column acl first, I'm not sure how we can conform to the spec. Does anyone have a better way to handle this internally, while still producing correct results? GRANT SELECT ON tab TO grantee; REVOKE SELECT (c1) ON tab FROM grantee; It's possible I'm just mis-understanding SQL99 ... ? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Michael Fuhr wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 12:20:25PM +0900, Michael Glaesemann wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 12:23 , Andrew Dunstan wrote: A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that will download, build and install module foo for you. CPAN modules, Ruby gems, PgFoundry ingots? :) Tusks? (Extensions of the elephant.) Trunks? Dung? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] stats for failed transactions (was Re: [GENERAL] VACUUM
On 1/27/2006 10:53 AM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: Tom Lane wrote: I think this is the fault of the stats system design. AFAICT from a quick look at the code, inserted/updated/deleted tuples are reported to the collector in the same way regardless of whether the sending transaction committed or rolled back. I think this is unquestionably a bug, at least for autovacuum's purposes --- though it might be OK for the original intent of the stats system, which was simply to track activity levels. Any thoughts about how it ought to work? I don't remember exactly how it works -- I think the activity (insert, update, delete) counters are kept separately from commit/rollback status, right? Maybe we should keep three separate counters: current transaction counters and counters for transactions that were aborted/committed. We only send the latter counts, and the former are added to them when the transaction ends. It's not a bug. More some don't bother attitude. The stats were not intended to be precise. Their sole purpose at the time of design and development was to give clues for missing or useless indexes, identify candidates to move onto different spindles and things like autovacuum. If the number of aborts you're riding significantly disturbs your statistic collection, you should look at some design issues with your own application instead. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] stats for failed transactions (was Re: [GENERAL] VACUUM
On 1/27/2006 10:56 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: I think this is unquestionably a bug, at least for autovacuum's purposes --- though it might be OK for the original intent of the stats system, which was simply to track activity levels. Any thoughts about how it ought to work? I don't remember exactly how it works -- I think the activity (insert, update, delete) counters are kept separately from commit/rollback status, right? Maybe we should keep three separate counters: current transaction counters and counters for transactions that were aborted/committed. We only send the latter counts, and the former are added to them when the transaction ends. My question was at a higher level, actually: *what* should we be counting? I think doubling the number of counters in the stats system, which is what you seem to be proposing, is probably not acceptable --- we've already got a problem with the stats file becoming unreasonably bulky. We need to figure out exactly which counts there is adequate reason to be tracking. I don't, for instance, see any percentage in tracking block-level I/O operations separately for committed and rolled-back transactions. Those numbers are certainly things you watch only for total activity, and a failed xact is just as much system load as a committed one. Right. The problem is that different questions need different counting semantics. If one looks at an application profile, he wants to know how many inserts, updates and deletes the app has issued, probably regardless of the final transaction outcome. But for autovac he wants to be able to figure out how many dead tuples there would be, so for that purpose inserts in a rolled back xact would count as ins+del where deletes would not count at all. Jan -- #==# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #== [EMAIL PROTECTED] # ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Weirdness with =?
Christopher Kings-Lynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I tried replacing it with: UPDATE food_foods SET included=(verification_status = 'I'); However, that set included to true only where verification_status=I, it didn't set false at all. You'd have gotten NULL, not FALSE, at the rows where verification_status is NULL. You could try coalesce, or (verification_status = 'I') IS TRUE, to get something that returns false instead of null. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] GRANT/REVOKE: Allow column-level privileges
William ZHANG [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another problem is, should we allow any circles to be formed when executing GRANTs? This is already prohibited. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
[HACKERS] win32 server question
Hi, Does anyone know how the win32 server checks if the user is non priveleged? Does it just check if the user is in the admin or power user group? Thanks, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] win32 server question
Hi, Does anyone know how the win32 server checks if the user is non priveleged? Does it just check if the user is in the admin or power user group? Yes and yes. See http://developer.postgresql.org/cvsweb.cgi/pgsql/src/backend/port/win32/ security.c?rev=1.9 //Magnus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 08:25, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Josh Berkus wrote:
Andrew,
A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that
will
download, build and install module foo for you. Then we could publish
many
many modules on pgfoundry, their authors could look after them, and
installing them would be trivial. pgxs should make such a thing a lot
simpler in many cases.
Of course, building it would be quite a bit of work :-)
Yeah, just ask the Perl folks. I believe that CPAN took about 4 years
to get working.
They were kinda blazing a trail.
I don't think Ruby Gems took anything like that long to flesh out.
probably cause they were using ruby instead of perl! ;-)
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
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Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 09:01, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Michael Fuhr wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 12:20:25PM +0900, Michael Glaesemann wrote:
On Jan 30, 2006, at 12:23 , Andrew Dunstan wrote:
A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that will
download, build and install module foo for you.
CPAN modules, Ruby gems, PgFoundry ingots? :)
Tusks? (Extensions of the elephant.)
Trunks?
Dung?
gives a whole new meaning to the term package delivery
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On 30 Jan 2006 11:35:13 -0500 Robert Treat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CPAN modules, Ruby gems, PgFoundry ingots? :) Tusks? (Extensions of the elephant.) Trunks? Dung? gives a whole new meaning to the term package delivery What about calling it Peanuts since I hear elephants like those? - Frank Wiles [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wiles.org - ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 10:01:58PM +0800, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: Michael Fuhr wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 12:20:25PM +0900, Michael Glaesemann wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 12:23 , Andrew Dunstan wrote: A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that will download, build and install module foo for you. CPAN modules, Ruby gems, PgFoundry ingots? :) Tusks? (Extensions of the elephant.) Trunks? Dung? I think it best to stick with the front-end of the elephant... :) -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pervasive Software http://pervasive.comwork: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 10:25:39AM +0100, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Robert Treat wrote: On Sunday 29 January 2006 22:23, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Mark Kirkwood said: ... A nicer idea would be something like a utility could we ship that will download, build and install module foo for you. Then we could publish many many modules on pgfoundry, their authors could look after them, and installing them would be trivial. pgxs should make such a thing a lot simpler in many cases. Of course, building it would be quite a bit of work :-) Actually I don't think it would be all that hard. You just need to have each project produce an xml file with bits of package information (name, dependencies, version info, etc...) which could then be combined with all the other packages to produce a complete list of available packages. While I'm all for the idea, I don't think the effort should be underestimated. At least it must be *very* well scoped. Chances are, it becomes extremely huge and complex task. Here are some thoughts that might be worth considering: I agree, but baby steps is probably better than nothing. Also, there are now a whole slew of different packaging schemes out there, some of which are specifically meant to be cross-platform. Darwinports comes to mind, and I know there's another one on sourceforge. If we're going to create a pgFoundry packaging/ports system we should definately look at those. Another possibility is to use pgFoundry itself as part of the guts of this. It would arguably be easier to maintain stuff like dependancy information in the pgFoundry database than in some other language that pgFoundry developers are less likely to be familiar with. There would still need to be a means to check what packages are installed on a specific machine, but it should be possible for pgFoundry to dynamically create a sh or batch script that can check what's on a machine and grab tarballs as needed. -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pervasive Software http://pervasive.comwork: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 03:15:06PM -0500, Mark Woodward wrote: Postgres generally seems to favor extensibility over integration, and I generally agree with that approach. I generally agree as well, but. I think there is always a balance between out of the box vs extensibility. I think integration and extensibility is fantastic for addaptation of your product, but oobe (out of box experience) is important for those you want to target. By all practical measure PostgreSQL is miles ahead of MySQL, but MySQL wins because it is the defacto PHP database. PostgreSQL does not target PHP in any real sense, I am proposing adding this extension to change that. Rather than try and include everything and the kitchen-sink in the baseline PostgreSQL, why not create a set of PHP targeted ports/packages? Maybe even bundle Apache in there so you've got your own 'LAPP' stack? (Though being a FreeBSD guy, I'd rather have 'FAPP'...) One of the key advantages to this approach is that now you can really create a package that makes sense to the target audience by doing things like automatically including PHP as a procedure language. And of course, there's no reason this has to be limited to just PHP... -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pervasive Software http://pervasive.comwork: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 03:15:06PM -0500, Mark Woodward wrote: Postgres generally seems to favor extensibility over integration, and I generally agree with that approach. I generally agree as well, but. I think there is always a balance between out of the box vs extensibility. I think integration and extensibility is fantastic for addaptation of your product, but oobe (out of box experience) is important for those you want to target. By all practical measure PostgreSQL is miles ahead of MySQL, but MySQL wins because it is the defacto PHP database. PostgreSQL does not target PHP in any real sense, I am proposing adding this extension to change that. Rather than try and include everything and the kitchen-sink in the baseline PostgreSQL, why not create a set of PHP targeted ports/packages? Maybe even bundle Apache in there so you've got your own 'LAPP' stack? (Though being a FreeBSD guy, I'd rather have 'FAPP'...) One of the key advantages to this approach is that now you can really create a package that makes sense to the target audience by doing things like automatically including PHP as a procedure language. And of course, there's no reason this has to be limited to just PHP... It gets so frustrating sometimes, it isn't so black and white, there are many levels of gray. The PostgreSQL project is trying so hard to be neutral, that it is making itself irrelevant. Designing and including features that a large group of users would like to have makes sense. Regardless of my extension, I'd love to see PostgreSQL get a little pro-active in positioning itself better. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
[HACKERS] Policy on schema-qualified names
I wonder if there is a policy on when schema-qualified names should be used in ereport/elog messages. At the moment this doesn't seem to be consistent, even within the same command: template1=# VACUUM verbose t; INFO: vacuuming public.t [...] template1=# VACUUM verbose tv; WARNING: skipping tv --- cannot vacuum indexes, views, or special system tables When actually doing its work, VACUUM schema-qualifies the name of the object but when it refuses to do so it doesn't... Joachim ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Mark Woodward wrote: It gets so frustrating sometimes, it isn't so black and white, there are many levels of gray. The PostgreSQL project is trying so hard to be neutral, that it is making itself irrelevant. We are making ourselves irrelevant because we encourage the use of PgFoundry vs including everything (and the kitchen sink) in our core distribution? That's like saying that Perl is makign itself irrelevant since it doesn't include all of CPAN in their distribution, or PHP cause they don't include all of the pear stuff, or ... If an extension is programmed properly, there is no reason why it can't be external to the core distribution, and the tools are provided to help ensure that they are programmed properly ... its not like it used to be, where you *had* to download the source tar ball in order to make use of the Makefile infrastructure ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Robert Treat wrote: On Sunday 29 January 2006 22:23, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Mark Kirkwood said: Mark Woodward wrote: There should e a big huge button and/or link to pgfountry that shows how much is availale to PostgreSQL. While there are links to 'em mentioned on the web site, I agree that making (particularly) Pgfoundry more prominent would be a good idea. Mark, do you want to suggest that on -advocacy (since I suspect that's the place to get it to happen)? I hate to repeat this sad story, but we're stalling due to the need for server upgrades on the foundry to make it more robust. Eventually it will get more play I imagine. 'k, I really hate to disappoint ppl, but there hasn't been a problem with pgfoundry in a fairly long time now ... we are working on migrating it to its own server, with most of the 'migration document' done, but we are bringing on new projects, with the EnterpriseDB folks just bringing online a few OSS tools, on a weekly basis ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Policy on schema-qualified names
Joachim Wieland wrote: I wonder if there is a policy on when schema-qualified names should be used in ereport/elog messages. If it's not too hard to do, I would add the schema name in most places. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
Secondly, if there is a large group of users who want this, why doesn't someone do it? Any one of them could take the source, and produce a bundle (say a PostgresPHP Plus Pack) that has all the features you think should be in there. If they can demonstrate they can maintain it, perhaps the postgresql website can host it the same way it hosts the windows installer packages (they're not part of postgres either). Actually that has been done, specifically do address this type of issue. It is called Mammoth PostgreSQL. It can be found here: http://www.mammothpostgresql.org/ Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
[HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Linux/Unix systems
Hi, As you know, many databases that run on Linux / Unix systems have a GUI installer which make installation easier and more attractive for some people. Our Windows Installer is very attractive, for example. Now, I and Burcu Guzel, who is a Senior Programmer, decided to launch a new project: pgnixinstaller : http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. For systems like Solaris I can see it maybe being a win. Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. You can install, but what if you need different configure options than the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we will build and install that package via the installer. OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) For systems like Solaris I can see it maybe being a win. Agreed. Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer
Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) There's yumex ... http://fedoranews.org/tchung/yumex/ cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Devrim GUNDUZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. You can install, but what if you need different configure options than the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we will build and install that package via the installer. That's actually a pretty cool idea--compile and generate debs/rpms that reflect the user's choices, then install them. But the dependency on a compiler adds a twist of complexity--sorry, you need to install the following system packages (gcc, etc) before you can install Postgres as you've configured it. Not horrible, but perhaps intimidating for the GUI crowd? :) Is gcc in the bog-standard default install on FC these days? Certainly you can install pre-built binaries without a compiler, and let the user choose database location, autovacuum settings and stuff like that. Good luck! -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:27 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) There's yumex ... http://fedoranews.org/tchung/yumex/ Thanks for the info. I haven't heard about it before... However none of them are PostgreSQL Installers, none of them has the ability to customize the packages and none of them has the ability to install the community packages, etc. :) Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system and up-to-date repositories? I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and adminsiter it. You can install, but what if you need different configure options than the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we will build and install that package via the installer. OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) And pull down/build/install the various extensions on pgFoundry? :) Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:31 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: Certainly you can install pre-built binaries without a compiler, and let the user choose database location, autovacuum settings and stuff like that. That's another good point. We can adjust many settings before installing. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:34 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites) And pull down/build/install the various extensions on pgFoundry? :) Another good idea. Thanks Marc. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:31 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote: You can install, but what if you need different configure options than the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we will build and install that package via the installer. That's actually a pretty cool idea--compile and generate debs/rpms that reflect the user's choices, then install them. But the dependency on a compiler adds a twist of complexity--sorry, you need to install the following system packages (gcc, etc) before you can install Postgres as you've configured it. Not horrible, but perhaps intimidating for the GUI crowd? :) Is gcc in the bog-standard default install on FC these days? We can pre-check the prerequisites for building the package and raise an error before beginning to build the package. It is not that hard. For example, RPMs have BuildRequires tags and we can compare those with the packages installed in the system. BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR. Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Monday 30 January 2006 16:21, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Robert Treat wrote:
On Sunday 29 January 2006 22:23, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Mark Kirkwood said:
Mark Woodward wrote:
There should e a big huge button and/or link
to pgfountry that shows how much is availale to PostgreSQL.
While there are links to 'em mentioned on the web site, I agree that
making (particularly) Pgfoundry more prominent would be a good idea.
Mark, do you want to suggest that on -advocacy (since I suspect that's
the place to get it to happen)?
I hate to repeat this sad story, but we're stalling due to the need for
server upgrades on the foundry to make it more robust. Eventually it
will get more play I imagine.
'k, I really hate to disappoint ppl, but there hasn't been a problem with
pgfoundry in a fairly long time now ... we are working on migrating it to
its own server, with most of the 'migration document' done, but we are
bringing on new projects, with the EnterpriseDB folks just bringing online
a few OSS tools, on a weekly basis ...
I understand why your defensive, but in this case it's misguided. The new
pgfoundry server isn't ready to go yet which is why it hasn't been moved to
yet and why gborg hasn't been transferred over yet. People are busy and
there are other issues, but the point still stands that we've yet to hear
anything from the foundry admin team that sounded like a proclamation to tear
the doors off of the thing.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR. Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :) More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something that ppl do with Linux? Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Want to add to contrib.... xmldbx
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Robert Treat wrote: On Monday 30 January 2006 16:21, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Robert Treat wrote: On Sunday 29 January 2006 22:23, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Mark Kirkwood said: Mark Woodward wrote: There should e a big huge button and/or link to pgfountry that shows how much is availale to PostgreSQL. While there are links to 'em mentioned on the web site, I agree that making (particularly) Pgfoundry more prominent would be a good idea. Mark, do you want to suggest that on -advocacy (since I suspect that's the place to get it to happen)? I hate to repeat this sad story, but we're stalling due to the need for server upgrades on the foundry to make it more robust. Eventually it will get more play I imagine. 'k, I really hate to disappoint ppl, but there hasn't been a problem with pgfoundry in a fairly long time now ... we are working on migrating it to its own server, with most of the 'migration document' done, but we are bringing on new projects, with the EnterpriseDB folks just bringing online a few OSS tools, on a weekly basis ... I understand why your defensive, but in this case it's misguided. The new pgfoundry server isn't ready to go yet which is why it hasn't been moved to yet and why gborg hasn't been transferred over yet. People are busy and there are other issues, but the point still stands that we've yet to hear anything from the foundry admin team that sounded like a proclamation to tear the doors off of the thing. I'm one of the 'foundry admin team', and I can definitely state that we have been accepting projects as ppl are proposing them ... as to gborg-pgfoundry, the only thing that has been holding that up is that the two systems are not compatible at the DB end of things, so moving ppl over isn't the easiest thing to do ... but, for those that have approached us asking to be migrated, we've worked at migrating those over manually ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Hi, On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 22:04 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR. Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :) More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something that ppl do with Linux? On systems that have a packaging system, you are supposed to download and install vendor kernels. There is no need to build the kernel. However, if you want to build, then you need to install development environment. On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Regards, -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Is everything 'loadable modules' then? I can't imagine you have some mammoth kernel running on your system, do you? with every conceivable piece of hardware configured in? Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Marc G. Fournier wrote: More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something that ppl do with Linux? The Linux kernel has loadable modules, so it's much less of an issue. For example, I just installed the Cisco VPN s/w on my FC4 box. I didn't have to rebuild the kernel, all I have to do is to load the kernel module that puts a wedge in the IP stack. The parts of the kernel that are optional are almost all loadable modules. Some people do build static kernels. That makes sense when you have tightly controlled hardware and software requirements. I mostly don't bother. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) On 1/30/06, Devrim GUNDUZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 22:04 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR. Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :) More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something that ppl do with Linux?On systems that have a packaging system, you are supposed to download and install vendor kernels. There is no need to build the kernel.However, if you want to build, then you need to install developmentenvironment.On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :)Regards,--The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 supportManaged Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/---(end of broadcast)---TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Is everything 'loadable modules' then? I can't imagine you have some mammoth kernel running on your system, do you? with every conceivable piece of hardware configured in? Yes, vendor kernels are very modular--most drivers, packet filtering, scsi etc are all loadable modules. You can of course build your own kernel with only the drivers you need built-in, but it usually doesn't make very much difference. The module system works, in general, extremely well. -Doug ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Linux/Unix systems
We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. You'd better define the purpose pretty clearly, as I don't see any purpose that's of value, yet. On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... I could see there being some value in a GUI for managing postmaster config files... -- let name=cbbrowne and tld=gmail.com in String.concat @ [name;tld];; http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxdistributions.html High-level languages are a pretty good indicator that all else is seldom equal. - Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: However none of them are PostgreSQL Installers, none of them has the ability to customize the packages and none of them has the ability to install the community packages, etc. :) You need to take a sniff over at the FreeBSD ports. Lets you build customized install of Pg quite easily, without need for a gui, which none of my big servers have. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat does not provide support if I do so :) Is everything 'loadable modules' then? I can't imagine you have some mammoth kernel running on your system, do you? with every conceivable piece of hardware configured in? Yes except for core modules almost everything in Linux is a loadable module. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Joshua D. Drake ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. i can't agree more ... I don't care whether you are running FreeBSD or Linux or Solaris ... if you want broader adoption of non-Microsoft OSs, you have to make it simplier for 'the masses' to make use of ... and GUIs tend to follow KISS very closely ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
I don't see why anyone has a problem with this. I am certainly never going to use it but if it helps someone who isn't a linux person to use it on a project when they would have used something else (like mysql) or if it convinces someone to run postgres on linux instead of windows because they now have a graphical installer on linux then it seems like a good thing to me. More users = bigger community = larger potential pool of people to help out. Even if people can't code they can answer newbie (or advanced) questions on the mailing lists or write documentation or even just tell their dba friends about it. The more people using postgres the better. If this will help then I'm all for it. Just because I would rather do a ./configure make make install doesn't mean that thats the best route for everyone. Rick On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. i can't agree more ... I don't care whether you are running FreeBSD or Linux or Solaris ... if you want broader adoption of non- Microsoft OSs, you have to make it simplier for 'the masses' to make use of ... and GUIs tend to follow KISS very closely ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http:// www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 19:52 -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: On my Debian systems, I can install PostgreSQL quite readily via the command apt-get install postgresql-8.1, which can get GUIed at least somewhat if I run aptitude, synaptic, or such... Yes Christopher, you can... I can, and Devrim can As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. There is such a thing as best practices. If you install postgresql in this glorious graphical manner, what will prevent you from accidentally upgrading a shared library which postgresql depends upon? Nothing, really, unless this installer is going to be able to customize, build, and install a native package on all the target operating systems. How will you do an orderly upgrade from one revision to the next, including all the dependencies? How will you distribute security updates? I predict this form of installation will cause a great many support headaches as users report problems which are caused by oddball compilers, strange CFLAGS, unreleased or strangely patched versions of shared libraries and headers, and so forth. You don't get that with apt-get install. Right, with apt-get install you get a package built with a known-good compiler, known-sane configure flags, and a method of pinning the dependencies, which passes at the very least a smoketest on Alpha, AMD64, ARM, HPPA, x86, IA64, 640x0, MIPS, PowerPC, S/390, and SPARC. There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Oracle's graphical installer is a material impediment to Oracle adoption. The installer only works on systems where particular versions of Java and Motif libraries are available. On 64-bit Opteron systems it only works with the peculiar 32-bit thunking tree favored by Red Hat and hardly anybody else. If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop Postgresql in a heartbeat. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Have you looked at AutoPackage? http://autopackage.org screen shots. http://autopackage.org/gallery.html Has a GUI wizard if X windows is available and a command line wizard if no X is available. Using autopackage is similar to using MSI,Wise,Inno etc on Windows. Later, -- Tony Caduto AM Software Design Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Oracle's graphical installer is a material impediment to Oracle adoption. The installer only works on systems where particular versions of Java and Motif libraries are available. On 64-bit Opteron systems it only works with the peculiar 32-bit thunking tree favored by Red Hat and hardly anybody else. If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop Postgresql in a heartbeat. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. The installer is for the 98% not the 2%. You are in the 2%. Joshua D. Drake -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:53 -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Oracle's graphical installer is a material impediment to Oracle adoption. The installer only works on systems where particular versions of Java and Motif libraries are available. On 64-bit Opteron systems it only works with the peculiar 32-bit thunking tree favored by Red Hat and hardly anybody else. If I could install Oracle on Debian/AMD64 with a shell script, I'd drop Postgresql in a heartbeat. Obviously anybody is welcome and able to just write whatever software they feel is needed, but go ahead and count me among the skeptics. The installer is for the 98% not the 2%. You are in the 2%. Right, and it would make FAR more sense if Oracle just shipped the whole thing, operating system and the works, on a single installer image. So why don't you just do that with Postgres? You could call it Bootable PostgreSQL. It would be a big hit. When a new version comes out, you can just mail out a new DVD. That would be a lot better than pretending to know how to fit in, best practices and the works, with all the various Unix systems out there. -jwb ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Jeff, So why don't you just do that with Postgres? You could call it Bootable PostgreSQL. It would be a big hit. When a new version comes out, you can just mail out a new DVD. Actually, we have these. We give them out at conferences. --Josh ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Tony Caduto wrote: Devrim GUNDUZ wrote: Have you looked at AutoPackage? http://autopackage.org screen shots. http://autopackage.org/gallery.html Has a GUI wizard if X windows is available and a command line wizard if no X is available. Using autopackage is similar to using MSI,Wise,Inno etc on Windows. If that's the one that uses aptools it looks _excellent_. Until you try and use it. It looked as though it would solve many of my packaging problems, not least deploying on older platforms than the build box, but simply didn't work on anything more complex than toy code. I suspect that if you were just using it as a general installer, rather than any of the portability magic, it might be worth a look. Cheers, Steve ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb: Hi, As you know, many databases that run on Linux / Unix systems have a GUI installer which make installation easier and more attractive for some people. If you think of the *racle-GUI-Installer, most people find it very s*cking ;) Our Windows Installer is very attractive, for example. Now, I and Burcu Guzel, who is a Senior Programmer, decided to launch a new project: pgnixinstaller : http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/ We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase, if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas. Might be fun of course. But on unix you usually have some kind of package system anyway - how is the installer supposed to play nicely with them? Regards Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb: Hi, ... Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
Jonah H. Harris schrieb: I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack). Just my 2 cents :) Yes! Use Java for ultimate suckiness of the installer ;) I love to install all X11, Java and stuff on a server to be able to install a package with about 1/10 the size ;) SCNR Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Joshua D. Drake schrieb: ... As more and more people come on board people are going to want to download a .exe (a metaphor), double click and have it open an installer, they will then want to click next, next, continue, finish. You don't get that with apt-get install. Well you can use a frontend and search and click as well. I see no problem - and it really works, as opposed to: There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Hehehe. Did you actually use this installer? I did! And lets tell you, you dont come by w/o any linux/unix knowledge. Regards Tino ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb: Hi, ... Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or put everything in /usr/local? We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;) RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;) I thought that Linux had this 'Linux Standard File System' or some such that described where files were supposed to be installed? Or is this another one of those Standards that nobody follows? :( I know under FreeBSD, its simple: --prefix=/usr/local and away you go ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
Rick Gigger schrieb: I don't see why anyone has a problem with this. I am certainly never going to use it but if it helps someone who isn't a linux person to use it on a project when they would have used something else (like mysql) or if it convinces someone to run postgres on linux instead of windows because they now have a graphical installer on linux then it seems like a good thing to me. More users = bigger community = larger potential pool of people to help out. Even if people can't code they can answer newbie (or advanced) questions on the mailing lists or write documentation or even just tell their dba friends about it. The more people using postgres the better. If this will help then I'm all for it. Just because I would rather do a ./configure make make install doesn't mean that thats the best route for everyone. As was said, a gui to produce postgresql.conf files (off host) can be of value. Also for the tune-people a package builder can be useful too. For other people - if they dont learn a bit about their package system on their choosen system - they will run into other problems soon or later. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for
On Jan 30, 2006, at 7:52 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: There is a reason that even Oracle has a graphical installer on Linux, because most people installing the software: A. Don't know how to use it B. Probably don't know how to use Linux C. Don't want to. Except that the Oracle graphical installer usually requires a non- trivial amount of command line kung-fu that alone is more complex than the entirety of the command line installation of PostgreSQL. Oracle installation is an unpleasant and painful process even under the best of circumstances, and I've never had one that required less effort than Postgres for a vanilla install. And I always install postgres from source. If ./configure; make; make install scares away people, sorting out the dependency hell getting the Oracle installer to even run on nominally supported platforms will definitely scare them away. A graphical installer for Unix is fine, but please, do not make it anything like Oracle's graphical installer. Oracle's graphical install process gives command line installs a good name for ease of use. J. Andrew Rogers ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
