Re: PG 11 feature count
On 17 May 2018 at 18:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: > I regularly track the number of items documented in each major release. > I use the attached script. You might be surprised to learn that PG 11 > has the lowest feature count of any release back through 7.4: > > 7.4 280 > 8.0 238 > 8.1 187 > 8.2 230 > 8.3 237 > 8.4 330 > 9.0 252 > 9.1 213 > 9.2 250 > 9.3 187 > 9.4 217 > 9.5 200 > 9.6 220 > 10 194 > 11 167 It would be useful to combine that with the CF app data showing number of patches submitted and number of features rejected. Not available for all time, but certainly goes back a few years now. -- Simon Riggshttp://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
Re: PG 11 feature count
On 05/17/2018 04:29 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: I regularly track the number of items documented in each major release. I use the attached script. You might be surprised to learn that PG 11 has the lowest feature count of any release back through 7.4: 7.4 280 8.0 238 8.1 187 8.2 230 8.3 237 8.4 330 9.0 252 9.1 213 9.2 250 9.3 187 9.4 217 9.5 200 9.6 220 10 194 11 167 Our goal should be less features so this is awesome. There is a point where we should want to reach where we are refining only limitations to perfection, not continuing to create the hot new thing. That is maturity in the product. Congrats to everyone for such a fantastic looking release, JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc *** A fault and talent of mine is to tell it exactly how it is. *** PostgreSQL centered full stack support, consulting and development. Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://postgresconf.org * Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. *
Re: PG 11 feature count
> On May 18, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > On 2018-May-17, Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> 9.5 200 >> 9.6 220 >> 10 194 >> 11 167 > > Just yesterday Andres was telling us that pg11 has so much new stuff, > when compared to 9.5 and 9.6, that seemed to have not as much shiny > things. I think it's all in the eye of the beholder; our releases are > large, and getting larger every year. Quality, not quantity? ;-) We did add a lot of really big things this year. > Maybe we should publish a sloccount evolution study :-) Or even a feature evolution study (though I know there have been quite a few presentations showing the history of PostgreSQL). I recall a lot of the earlier versions of PostgreSQL were focused on stability and fundamental database features, as well as building out the core plumbing for the major features we are adding today. Jonathan
Re: PG 11 feature count
On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 10:49:30AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > Alvaro Herrera writes: > > Just yesterday Andres was telling us that pg11 has so much new stuff, > > when compared to 9.5 and 9.6, that seemed to have not as much shiny > > things. I think it's all in the eye of the beholder; our releases are > > large, and getting larger every year. > > Yeah. My feeling for the last year or two has been that so much > development is happening that I can't keep track of it all. > > Much of it is in the direction of "better performance", and I think > Bruce's opinion of what's a documentable feature is biased against > including that type of change. So that might account for some of > these numbers, too. It probably is biased, but hopefully consistently so --- that would explain the decline. -- Bruce Momjian http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + As you are, so once was I. As I am, so you will be. + + Ancient Roman grave inscription +
Re: PG 11 feature count
Alvaro Herrera writes: > Just yesterday Andres was telling us that pg11 has so much new stuff, > when compared to 9.5 and 9.6, that seemed to have not as much shiny > things. I think it's all in the eye of the beholder; our releases are > large, and getting larger every year. Yeah. My feeling for the last year or two has been that so much development is happening that I can't keep track of it all. Much of it is in the direction of "better performance", and I think Bruce's opinion of what's a documentable feature is biased against including that type of change. So that might account for some of these numbers, too. regards, tom lane
Re: PG 11 feature count
On 2018-May-17, Bruce Momjian wrote: > 9.5 200 > 9.6 220 > 10 194 > 11 167 Just yesterday Andres was telling us that pg11 has so much new stuff, when compared to 9.5 and 9.6, that seemed to have not as much shiny things. I think it's all in the eye of the beholder; our releases are large, and getting larger every year. Maybe we should publish a sloccount evolution study :-) -- Álvaro Herrerahttps://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
Re: PG 11 feature count
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 05:01:17PM -0700, Andres Freund wrote: > On 2018-05-17 19:56:43 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > > David Rowley writes: > > > On 18 May 2018 at 11:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > >> I regularly track the number of items documented in each major release. > > >> I use the attached script. You might be surprised to learn that PG 11 > > >> has the lowest feature count of any release back through 7.4: > > > > > Interesting. I wonder how much of that drop over the past few years > > > can be accounted for by the fact that easier stuff tends to get > > > implemented first, and now we're all just left with the hard stuff. > > > > I don't think the "features" are all the same size, either. > > Procedures and JIT are both pretty major things ... > > Yea. You could easily break down either feature into at least 10 > sub-features that would independently be listed if they happend in > subsequent releases... I don't think counting items in the release > notes yields something particularly meaningful. Agreed, but I reported the number in case someone can find some meaning in it. -- Bruce Momjian http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + As you are, so once was I. As I am, so you will be. + + Ancient Roman grave inscription +
Re: PG 11 feature count
On 18/05/18 11:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: I regularly track the number of items documented in each major release. I use the attached script. You might be surprised to learn that PG 11 has the lowest feature count of any release back through 7.4: 7.4 280 8.0 238 8.1 187 8.2 230 8.3 237 8.4 330 9.0 252 9.1 213 9.2 250 9.3 187 9.4 217 9.5 200 9.6 220 10 194 11 167 I try to use the same criteria in choosing items each year, though I certainly am not perfectly accurate. One reason the PG 11 count is lower is because the the major items for this release are not listed at the top yet, but that is only around six items. I wonder what the ranking would be in terms of: 1. Complexity 2. Usefulness 3. Lines-of-Code 4. ... Suspect Lines-of-code is the one most easily measured, but the least useful! Whereas: Usefulness is probably the most valuable, but the most difficult to measure -- for obvious reasons... Cheers, Gavin
Re: PG 11 feature count
On 2018-05-17 19:56:43 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > David Rowley writes: > > On 18 May 2018 at 11:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> I regularly track the number of items documented in each major release. > >> I use the attached script. You might be surprised to learn that PG 11 > >> has the lowest feature count of any release back through 7.4: > > > Interesting. I wonder how much of that drop over the past few years > > can be accounted for by the fact that easier stuff tends to get > > implemented first, and now we're all just left with the hard stuff. > > I don't think the "features" are all the same size, either. > Procedures and JIT are both pretty major things ... Yea. You could easily break down either feature into at least 10 sub-features that would independently be listed if they happend in subsequent releases... I don't think counting items in the release notes yields something particularly meaningful. Greetings, Andres Freund
Re: PG 11 feature count
David Rowley writes: > On 18 May 2018 at 11:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: >> I regularly track the number of items documented in each major release. >> I use the attached script. You might be surprised to learn that PG 11 >> has the lowest feature count of any release back through 7.4: > Interesting. I wonder how much of that drop over the past few years > can be accounted for by the fact that easier stuff tends to get > implemented first, and now we're all just left with the hard stuff. I don't think the "features" are all the same size, either. Procedures and JIT are both pretty major things ... regards, tom lane
Re: PG 11 feature count
On 18 May 2018 at 11:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: > I regularly track the number of items documented in each major release. > I use the attached script. You might be surprised to learn that PG 11 > has the lowest feature count of any release back through 7.4: Interesting. I wonder how much of that drop over the past few years can be accounted for by the fact that easier stuff tends to get implemented first, and now we're all just left with the hard stuff. -- David Rowley http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services
