Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 02:50:21PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 14:50, Josh Berkus wrote: Dave, 1) There is an open source implementation of java Really? I thought Sun had a patent. www.blackdown.org I'd rather not call this open source. From the source tree: Copyright 2001 Sun Microsystems, Inc., 901 San Antonio Road, Palo Alto, California 94303, U.S.A. All rights reserved. This product or document is protected by copyright and distributed under licenses restricting its use, copying, distribution, and decompilation. No part of this product or document may be reproduced in any form by any means without prior written authorization of Sun and its licensors, if any. Third-party software, including font technology, is copyrighted and licensed from Sun suppliers. Sun, Sun Microsystems, the Sun Logo, Java, JDK, the Java Coffee Cup logo, JavaBeans, and JDBC are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the U.S. and other countries. All SPARC trademarks are used under license and are trademarks or registered trademarks of SPARC International, Inc. in the U.S. and other countries. Michael -- Michael Meskes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire! Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Josh, 1) There is an open source implementation of java 2) The jdbc driver is much better than it was recently we have made lots of improvements, and it won't affect jpgadmin anyway. I actually think writing the admin tool in java will make the driver better. 3) Don't see this as a big issue we aren't writing something esoteric here. Dave On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 14:35, Josh Berkus wrote: Dave, What do you see as the drawbacks with java, and how can they be circumvented? 1. Java is not Open Source. It's an open standard, but not OS. 2. I understand that there are some serious limitations to the current Postgres JDBC drivers. I have not used them, so I'm reporting rumor, here. 3. There are compatiblity issues between the various JVMs. We'd have to pick a particular JVM and stick with it, and get a lot of complaints from users on other JVMs. I don't know how serious the issues are. -- -Josh Berkus __AGLIO DATABASE SOLUTIONS___ Josh Berkus Complete information technology[EMAIL PROTECTED] and data management solutions (415) 565-7293 for law firms, small businesses fax 621-2533 and non-profit organizations. San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Dave, Would you consider java as a platform independant language? I have started a project on sf.net called jpgadmin, but I see the duplication of effort as a waste of time. Dave On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 09:45, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Josh Berkus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 26 June 2002 01:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Rod Taylor Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list Folks, What would be a win is an SQL like interface to editing pg_hba.conf and postgresql.conf. Once that was done PG_Admin could write a lovely interface to manage them without requiring direct access to the files. I am going to keep arguing against PG_Admin as the primary solution to any of our administration UI challenges. It's WINDOWS ONLY, darn it! Just for info, *absolute* number 1 priority for the next major release of pgAdmin is to take the 5+ years of experience and rewrite the code in a more platform independent language. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 14:50, Josh Berkus wrote: Dave, 1) There is an open source implementation of java Really? I thought Sun had a patent. www.blackdown.org 2) The jdbc driver is much better than it was recently we have made lots of improvements, and it won't affect jpgadmin anyway. I actually think writing the admin tool in java will make the driver better. That's great news, especially as we are planning to write a small business accounting package using Postgres, OpenOffice.org, and Java. That's awesome, have you looked at compiere? www.sf.net/projects/compiere 3) Don't see this as a big issue we aren't writing something esoteric here. Cool. As I said, I don't think that any of the issues are prohibitive. BTW, does anyone on this list know about Command Prompt, Inc.'s tools? There seems to be a lot of duplicte development going on in the commercial space. Ya, they're on the list -Josh Berkus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Josh, What do you see as the drawbacks with java, and how can they be circumvented? Dave On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 14:08, Josh Berkus wrote: Daves, Would you consider java as a platform independant language? I have started a project on sf.net called jpgadmin, but I see the duplication of effort as a waste of time. Java has its drawbacks, but a JPgAdmin tool would significantly encourage Postgres-OpenOffice.org integration. -- -Josh Berkus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://archives.postgresql.org/ ... better? Yup, although I'd suggest making the classification line up with the one on the main website --- docs and cygwin are listed as developer lists there. Also, someone suggested listing the by-month indexes back-to-front (most recent month first), which seems like a great idea if not difficult. Better? http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-jdbc The rest will 'fall in line' once there is something for mhonarc to work on again ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Also, someone suggested listing the by-month indexes back-to-front (most recent month first), which seems like a great idea if not difficult. Better? http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-jdbc The rest will 'fall in line' once there is something for mhonarc to work on again ... I don't think I've been so happy to see a webpage. Much better. Curious how there is a 'search the archives' link going to FTS when there is a form at the top of the page using another mechanism. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On 26 Jun 2002 14:36:15 EDT, the world broke into rejoicing as Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Josh, 1) There is an open source implementation of java 2) The jdbc driver is much better than it was recently we have made lots of improvements, and it won't affect jpgadmin anyway. I actually think writing the admin tool in java will make the driver better. 3) Don't see this as a big issue we aren't writing something esoteric here. There are free software implementations of Java compilers and of Java Virtual Machines. Are there suitable free software implementations of _all_ the libraries that you will be needing to construct the admin tool? In particular, can you direct us to a free software implementation of Swing? I doubt that you can, and _that_ is the characteristic problem with Java. The language is free enough, but the libraries you will want to use aren't... -- (concatenate 'string chris @cbbrowne.com) http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/spreadsheets.html HAKMEM ITEM 163 (Sussman): To exchange two variables in LISP without using a third variable: (SETQ X (PROG2 0 Y (SETQ Y X))) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On 27 Jun 2002, Rod Taylor wrote: Also, someone suggested listing the by-month indexes back-to-front (most recent month first), which seems like a great idea if not difficult. Better? http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-jdbc The rest will 'fall in line' once there is something for mhonarc to work on again ... I don't think I've been so happy to see a webpage. Much better. Curious how there is a 'search the archives' link going to FTS when there is a form at the top of the page using another mechanism. two different methods of searching ... those pages still need one helluva lot of cleanups though, as I shoudl re-word that 'Search the archives' as something more like 'Alternative methods of searching' or something like that, and point to FTS and Google ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
-Original Message- From: Dave Cramer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 27 June 2002 12:12 To: Dave Page Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list Dave, Thanks for the response. On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 15:21, Dave Page wrote: I do, but I've had nothing but bad experiences with Java though I'm open to new evidence/persuasion. I do agree that duplication of effort is not a good idea and I'm certainly not against collaborating on a new version though I must point out that having written pgAdmin from scratch twice now (three times if you cound my original proof of concept) over the last 5-6 years, I have *very* specific ideas on how pgAdmin should work. I've heard this bad experience thing a few times and I would like to understand this better. I have been developing in java for quite some time now, and have no worse, or better time with it. Most recently, the Cisco Visual Switch manager app that's in the firmware of my 2950-24 switches which won't run on any Linux or Win32 system I've got within 6 feet of me. You'd think they'd get it right. I have often found that applets from various places give exception errors and refuse to run. Others are extremely slow. On the plus side, there is a Java Telnet app that I used to use that was *very* good. Let me say now though, even if I do stay with my own version, if you ever need help don't hesitate to ask. Thanks very much for the offer, actually your code is quite helpful. :-) Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Tom Lane wrote: It also occurs to me that discussing this on -hackers, which is a technically focused list, is itself somewhat wrongheaded. The best list we have for it at the moment is -general, but I wonder whether we shouldn't create a list centered around project promotion and outreach concerns. You mean a list like ... oh, I don't know ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]? :) You know, I seemed to remember that we had such a list, but I looked at http://archives.postgresql.org/ and saw no archive for it, so I figured we didn't. If you're about to go out and create it, may I suggest that the name -advocacy might not be the best thing? -advocacy lists seem (to me anyway) to be more often flamebait arenas than useful discussion areas. Perhaps pgsql-promotion would be a good name that'd avoid the aura of flamewars. Or maybe that's just my own perception not anyone else's. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
-Original Message- From: Greg Sabino Mullane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 25 June 2002 20:04 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list 12. Offer something fun: a naming contest for the elephant (I know, I know), Isn't the elephant called Slonik? I vaguely remember picking that up from an existing alt tag when I redesigned the odbc site... Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
-Original Message- From: Josh Berkus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 26 June 2002 01:51 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Rod Taylor Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list Folks, What would be a win is an SQL like interface to editing pg_hba.conf and postgresql.conf. Once that was done PG_Admin could write a lovely interface to manage them without requiring direct access to the files. I am going to keep arguing against PG_Admin as the primary solution to any of our administration UI challenges. It's WINDOWS ONLY, darn it! Just for info, *absolute* number 1 priority for the next major release of pgAdmin is to take the 5+ years of experience and rewrite the code in a more platform independent language. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Hi Tom, Tom Lane wrote: Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: snip You mean a list like ... oh, I don't know ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]? :) You know, I seemed to remember that we had such a list, but I looked at http://archives.postgresql.org/ and saw no archive for it, so I figured we didn't. If you're about to go out and create it, may I suggest that the name -advocacy might not be the best thing? -advocacy lists seem (to me anyway) to be more often flamebait arenas than useful discussion areas. Perhaps pgsql-promotion would be a good name that'd avoid the aura of flamewars. Or maybe that's just my own perception not anyone else's. There is already a pgsql-advocacy list (as was pointed out recently), but it's unused. Borrow a leaf from the OpenOffice.org project, how about a pgsql-marketing list? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Daves, Would you consider java as a platform independant language? I have started a project on sf.net called jpgadmin, but I see the duplication of effort as a waste of time. Java has its drawbacks, but a JPgAdmin tool would significantly encourage Postgres-OpenOffice.org integration. -- -Josh Berkus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Dave, What do you see as the drawbacks with java, and how can they be circumvented? 1. Java is not Open Source. It's an open standard, but not OS. 2. I understand that there are some serious limitations to the current Postgres JDBC drivers. I have not used them, so I'm reporting rumor, here. 3. There are compatiblity issues between the various JVMs. We'd have to pick a particular JVM and stick with it, and get a lot of complaints from users on other JVMs. I don't know how serious the issues are. -- -Josh Berkus __AGLIO DATABASE SOLUTIONS___ Josh Berkus Complete information technology [EMAIL PROTECTED] and data management solutions (415) 565-7293 for law firms, small businesses fax 621-2533 and non-profit organizations. San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Dave, 1) There is an open source implementation of java Really? I thought Sun had a patent. 2) The jdbc driver is much better than it was recently we have made lots of improvements, and it won't affect jpgadmin anyway. I actually think writing the admin tool in java will make the driver better. That's great news, especially as we are planning to write a small business accounting package using Postgres, OpenOffice.org, and Java. 3) Don't see this as a big issue we aren't writing something esoteric here. Cool. As I said, I don't think that any of the issues are prohibitive. BTW, does anyone on this list know about Command Prompt, Inc.'s tools? There seems to be a lot of duplicte development going on in the commercial space. -Josh Berkus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Greg Sabino Mullane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 25 June 2002 20:04 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list 12. Offer something fun: a naming contest for the elephant (I know, I know), Isn't the elephant called Slonik? I vaguely remember picking that up it's fine. it's transliteration of russian translation of elephant (diminutive). from an existing alt tag when I redesigned the odbc site... Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet, Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia) Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
-Original Message- From: Dave Cramer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 26 June 2002 19:01 To: Dave Page Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rod Taylor Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list Dave, Would you consider java as a platform independant language? I have started a project on sf.net called jpgadmin, but I see the duplication of effort as a waste of time. I do, but I've had nothing but bad experiences with Java though I'm open to new evidence/persuasion. I do agree that duplication of effort is not a good idea and I'm certainly not against collaborating on a new version though I must point out that having written pgAdmin from scratch twice now (three times if you cound my original proof of concept) over the last 5-6 years, I have *very* specific ideas on how pgAdmin should work. I guess what I'm trying to say is that as it's been *my* project for years (not forgetting the contributions from Jean-Michel others), changing that and working as another member of a team would be *very* difficult for me. I hope you can understand this, having spent hundreds of hours and written 100,000+ lines of production code _almost_ single handedly it gets kinda personnal :-) Let me say now though, even if I do stay with my own version, if you ever need help don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:35:07 PDT, the world broke into rejoicing as Josh Berkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: What do you see as the drawbacks with java, and how can they be circumvented? 1. Java is not Open Source. It's an open standard, but not OS. The problem is not with the language; it is with the layered libraries on top. It's reasonably usable as a server side language; the _real_ serious problems come in if you want to build a GUIed application, when your choice is between: a) A really klunky AWT UI that will be unacceptable to all, and b) A SWING UI that makes your application critically dependent on non-open source software. The old Java 1.01 stuff is fairly successfully freely usable, but that's not what anyone wants to develop with. They want the cool new J2EE stuff, and it takes some serious research to figure out that you aren't going to be doing that with 'free software,' despite the existence of stuff like JBoss. You still need components that are Definitely Not Free. The answer is that someone has to implement a complete set of replacements for the SunSoft components under free licenses. That circumvention is a distinctly non-trivial task. 2. I understand that there are some serious limitations to the current Postgres JDBC drivers. I have not used them, so I'm reporting rumor, here. I've not run into problems with them, but maybe my use hasn't been extensive enough :-). -- (concatenate 'string cbbrowne @acm.org) http://cbbrowne.com/info/rdbms.html Remember folks. Street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph. -- Jim Samuels ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: Well hidden, but so far 86 have found it and subscribed to it *grin* It's on the subscription form. [snip] Vince, we can get -advocacy listed on the web site? There has been no traffic over there until now, but there are ppl subscribed to it ... all done. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 13:50, Josh Berkus wrote: BTW, does anyone on this list know about Command Prompt, Inc.'s tools? There seems to be a lot of duplicte development going on in the commercial space. I know for my PERSONAL stuff, commercial tools ($$) mean I don't even bother. I have some consulting clients, but using pay for stuff generally won't work for them, plus I can't usually afford the fees for my own use, so therefore are not conversant with the commercial tools. Nothing against them, but... Just my $.02 worth. -- Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler Phone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Vince, we can get -advocacy listed on the web site? There has been no traffic over there until now, but there are ppl subscribed to it ... all done. Any chance of getting a pgsql-patches link on archives.postgresql.org? I know the archives are created (I use them) but there is no obvious link. Secondly, could the links that do exist be ordered alphabetically? Thanks, Rod ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On 27 Jun 2002, Rod Taylor wrote: Vince, we can get -advocacy listed on the web site? There has been no traffic over there until now, but there are ppl subscribed to it ... all done. Any chance of getting a pgsql-patches link on archives.postgresql.org? I know the archives are created (I use them) but there is no obvious link. Secondly, could the links that do exist be ordered alphabetically? I have no idea who does what on archives. I just yell at Marc if something's broke. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Rod Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any chance of getting a pgsql-patches link on archives.postgresql.org? I know the archives are created (I use them) but there is no obvious link. Secondly, could the links that do exist be ordered alphabetically? I'm for that too. Every time I go to the archives page, I have to look carefully to find the list I want. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
will do it tonight :) On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Rod Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any chance of getting a pgsql-patches link on archives.postgresql.org? I know the archives are created (I use them) but there is no obvious link. Secondly, could the links that do exist be ordered alphabetically? I'm for that too. Every time I go to the archives page, I have to look carefully to find the list I want. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
-patches added ... I've gotta redo that page, as it was just a 'quick-n-dirty' when I did it ... On 27 Jun 2002, Rod Taylor wrote: Vince, we can get -advocacy listed on the web site? There has been no traffic over there until now, but there are ppl subscribed to it ... all done. Any chance of getting a pgsql-patches link on archives.postgresql.org? I know the archives are created (I use them) but there is no obvious link. Secondly, could the links that do exist be ordered alphabetically? Thanks, Rod ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
http://archives.postgresql.org/ ... better? On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: will do it tonight :) On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Rod Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any chance of getting a pgsql-patches link on archives.postgresql.org? I know the archives are created (I use them) but there is no obvious link. Secondly, could the links that do exist be ordered alphabetically? I'm for that too. Every time I go to the archives page, I have to look carefully to find the list I want. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://archives.postgresql.org/ ... better? Yup, although I'd suggest making the classification line up with the one on the main website --- docs and cygwin are listed as developer lists there. Also, someone suggested listing the by-month indexes back-to-front (most recent month first), which seems like a great idea if not difficult. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
