Has anyone tried Pragmatic Smalltalk?
Is what he says about the VM being a relic of the past true?
Can someone get David Chisnall to join the discussions?
All the best,
Aik-Siong Koh
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On 10 Dec 2013, at 09:26, p...@highoctane.be wrote:
> As I am currently reading Andres Valloud books, and trying out the exercises,
> man, what do I know about how to make decent enough code. Close to nothing it
> seems.
Yes, it is a mind blowing book, one of the best books, if not the best, a
I was more about primitives doing things with I/O.
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>
> On Dec 9, 2013, at 10:45 PM, p...@highoctane.be wrote:
>
> > Now, moving forward, what would be required to have an interpreter
> embedded in C, even if this means having another im
I did a ton of Java (coding, training people, large scale deployments) and
Java has enterprise grade features. For large apps/clients, not much can
beat it these days.
If you need to staff a team for a sizeable project, not much choice either.
Things like this:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/informatics
I agree 100% with you, it takes like no effort to fine one of the millions
of online sexy looking template and there like tons of apps out there that
can autogenerate good looking websites.
But then I find this much , much worse -> http://java.com/en/ . Sure it
looks more current but really ? Is t
On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 11:37 +0100, Torsten Bergmann wrote:
> If you follow the hype and advertising you go to Java - if you search
> for something more powerful you search for it and will find Smalltalk.
That's no way to think! Smalltalk is wonderful, but it gains nothing by
being obscure and lar
> The main issue is that it is complicated to embed the VM in C code.
> That's due to how the VM is done.
>
> Compared to TCL, where you can easily embed the interpreter in a C program,
> this is a problem. http://wiki.tcl.tk/3474
>
> Where you can embed the interpreter in a C program, you can
very interesting I wonder whether is pharo related or how easily can be
ported to Pharo.
The funny thing about nativeboost is that because it has its own inline
assembler it is possible to use nativeboost to debug the machine code
generated by nativeboost or to be more precise AsmJit. Of course th
2013/12/9 Torsten Bergmann :
> Esteban wrote:
>> I'd prefer ObjectConnect shutdown their website rather than having that.
>> And, at certain degree the same applies to my beloved ObjectArts and
>> its Dolphin masterpiece.
> What a nonsense - why should they shutdown their site if it is valuable
> t
Stef wrote:
> I like the idea that you can get 50kb applications.
> Now since this is a closed system and windows-centric.
> But I like that it shows that Smalltalk does not have to be the image centric
> way.
You have to additionally count the runtime DLL also which is also a few KB.
But even w
Esteban wrote:
> I'd prefer ObjectConnect shutdown their website rather than having that.
> And, at certain degree the same applies to my beloved ObjectArts and
> its Dolphin masterpiece.
What a nonsense - why should they shutdown their site if it is valuable
to provide infos and new downloads to
kilon alios wrote:
Sort answer is no , Pharo does not try to replace
C/C++. CAD plugins are indeed dlls and you will need C/C++ for that. I
only Know Free Pascal as another language to generate DLLs but even in
that case its extra work.
So if you look for the most direct solution th
2013/12/9 Marcus Denker :
>> Clement wrote:
>>> How can people even know Smalltalk MT still exist with their website and
>>> their communication ?
>>
>> If you follow the hype and advertising you go to Java - if you search
>> for something more powerful you search for it and will find Smalltalk.
>
On 09 Dec 2013, at 11:37, Torsten Bergmann wrote:
> Kilon wrote:
>> dlls alone wont be enough , plugins are compiled against a runtime or
>> specific libraries (a Plugin SDK) and Smalltalk MT
>> would have to be able to do that in order to be a viable solution.
>
> You can be sure it can :)
this is why i said " Theoretically of course its possible , but someone
would need to implement this to make it easy to do and currently AFAIK
none has.".
Please note I was talking about Pharo.
Even if you take into account Slang , pharo is not compiling to C, it has
actually a completely differ
Kilon wrote:
>dlls alone wont be enough , plugins are compiled against a runtime or specific
>libraries (a Plugin SDK) and Smalltalk MT
>would have to be able to do that in order to be a viable solution.
You can be sure it can :)
Clement wrote:
>How can people even know Smalltalk MT still exis
kilon alios writes:
> Sort answer is no , Pharo does not try to replace C/C++. CAD plugins
> are indeed dlls and you will need C/C++ for that. I only Know Free
> Pascal as another language to generate DLLs but even in that case its
> extra work.
>
> So if you look for the most direct solution th
The main issue is that it is complicated to embed the VM in C code.
That's due to how the VM is done.
Compared to TCL, where you can easily embed the interpreter in a C program,
this is a problem. http://wiki.tcl.tk/3474
Where you can embed the interpreter in a C program, you can do whatever
inte
please note that generating dlls alone wont be enough , plugins are
compiled against a runtime or specific libraries (a Plugin SDK) and
Smalltalk MT would have to be able to do that in order to be a viable
solution.
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
> You should think tha
You should think that they use their smalltalk for their projects.
Stef
On Dec 9, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Clément Bera wrote:
> How can people even know Smalltalk MT still exist with their website and
> their communication ?
>
> I looked at other Smalltalks a while ago, for Smalltalk MT I clicked o
How can people even know Smalltalk MT still exist with their website and
their communication ?
I looked at other Smalltalks a while ago, for Smalltalk MT I clicked on
"what's new" on their website and I got that:
[image: Images intégrées 1]
Then I thought this Smalltalk was dead (nothing new in
> Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there
> are no "big" announcements or advertising for it.
> ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology" strategy.
> It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented.
http://www.objectconn
On 08 Dec 2013, at 21:47, Marcus Denker wrote:
>
> On 08 Dec 2013, at 21:44, Torsten Bergmann wrote:
>
>>> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"?
>>
>> Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there
>> are no "big" announcements or advertising for it.
>
> For me this is
On 08 Dec 2013, at 21:44, Torsten Bergmann wrote:
>> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"?
>
> Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there
> are no "big" announcements or advertising for it.
For me this is a nice way of saying “its dead”.
> ObjectConnect follows the "
> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"?
Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there
are no "big" announcements or advertising for it.
ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology" strategy.
It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented
onents and
> already provides the native support (Graphics, Debugging, ...)
>
> Have fun
> Torsten
>
>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 08. Dezember 2013 um 19:20 Uhr
>> Von: askoh
>> An: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
>> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World
&g
ing, ...)
Have fun
Torsten
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 08. Dezember 2013 um 19:20 Uhr
> Von: askoh
> An: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World
>
> Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo
> and NativeBoost wor
Sort answer is no , Pharo does not try to replace C/C++. CAD plugins are
indeed dlls and you will need C/C++ for that. I only Know Free Pascal as
another language to generate DLLs but even in that case its extra work.
So if you look for the most direct solution then Pharo wont cut it and
probably
Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo
and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter
NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo?
I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD
program starts and calls the
Pharo can already communicate natively with objective C and all its
libraries via Nativeboost. An example is Mars on Pharo.
http://marsonpharo.wordpress.com/
Nativeboost of course can communicate with C and it even offers an inline
Assembler so you can go down to bare metal having all the speed a
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dc552/papers/SmalltalkInACWorld.pdf
The paper talks about Smalltalk and Objective C coexisting equally in a
software development environment. And by virtual of ObjC compatibility with
C/C++, the whole C world is open to Smalltalk. Isn't this very exciting?
Anyone else noti
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