Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for MacOs 10.6.8?

[john pfersich]

+1

Sent from my iPhone
Encrypted email at jgpfers...@protonmail.com

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 07:14, stefano franchi  wrote:
> 
> Dear Marcus,
> 
> thanks for the detailed answer. 
> 
> Let me say that my question did not in any ways imply that Pharo should 
> assume the burden of maintaining current images and VMs on old machines. My 
> goal was (is) simply to find out whether it was possible  to repurpose a 
> number old machines I have laying around by installing *old* versions of 
> Pharo. And I now have a positive answer, having installed vm30 and verified 
> that it works perfectly. 
> 
> In fact, I think adding a few lines to the website listing the last supported 
> version for the major MacOs releases would be a valuable addition and nicely 
> complement your commendable policy of keeping everything.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Stefano
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Marcus Denker  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse  
>>> wrote:
 Did you check
 
 http://get.pharo.org
 
 because we keep everything.
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I 
>>> started from get.pharo.org, but the zeroconf script did not guess right. 
>>> The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of 
>>> versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on  
>>> http://get.pharo.org would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9? It 
>>> was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core Duo 
>>> (NOT the Intel  Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
>>> 
>> you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/  
>> 
>> But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old 
>> machines forever… e.g the vm from that time should run,
>> but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM 
>> as we want to actually use the features that
>> new VMs provide.
>> 
>> Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on new 
>> VMs, new image on old VMs …) puts quite some 
>> constraints on what you can do in future… an maintaining new VMs for all 
>> possible old MacOS versions could soon just 
>> use up all our manpower.
>> 
>> So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable 
>> projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS
>> versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure… imagine 
>> if they decide to not support anything older
>> then MaOS 10.9… can we? should we?
>> 
>> There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the first 
>> thing I would work on is running *old* images on
>> *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that 
>> nicely and in a way that it can be maintained
>> and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from old 
>> to new) would be not part of the VM but 
>> part of the image.
>> 
>> Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by 
>> backporting the current VM to the old OS.
>> This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some 
>> old OS related code with the rest of the new VM,
>> but that should not be much.
>> 
>> But one question: Considering what developer time costs… I am quite sure 
>> that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac.
>> 
>>  Marcus
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> __
> Stefano Franchi
> 
> stefano.fran...@gmail.com
> http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: [Pharo-users] HMAC-SHA512

[Hernán Morales Durand]

2018-03-07 23:07 GMT-03:00 Ben Coman :
>
>
> On 8 March 2018 at 02:38, Michael Forster  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:40 PM, Ben Coman  wrote:
>> [...]
>> >
>> > If that is the one available from the Pharo Catalog, when I tried it, it
>> > used a different api than the libsodium library supplied by Ubuntu
>> > 16.04.
>> >
>> > It makes this call out...
>> >crypto_hash_sha512_ref()
>> > but Ubuntu libsodium library did not export that, but instead...
>> >   crypto_hash_sha512()
>> >
>> > I failed to track down the implications of the "_ref",
>> > and at that time Crypto-Nacl did not supply a 64-bit library,
>> > so a single FFI matching the system supplied libsodium library was
>> > easier.
>> > Also as a minor policy, I prefer to use the system library than one
>> > compiled
>> > by a third-party.
>> >
>> > cheers -ben
>> [...]
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Yes, I recommend using the OS/package-manager supplied libsodium
>> (based on https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium). The downloads
>> provided on Tony's site were based on early commits that exported the
>> "_ref" functions instead:
>>
>> commit e144f9d40d5695b69306bde729d6d8adcd62b1c4
>> Author: Frank Denis 
>> Date:   Mon Apr 22 16:30:31 2013 -0700
>>
>> crypto_hash_sha(256|512) are the exported functions that have
>> to be exported.
>> _ref are implementations, that shouldn't be exported.
>
>
> Thanks for clarifying that.
>
>
>>
>>
>> To be useful, http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~tonyg/Crypto-Nacl/ should be
>> updated to use a system-supplied libsodium.
>
>
> Or at least to the later api.In general there is some advantage in
> packaging the C-lib with the Smalltalk package
> for people experimenting with it the first time, to ensure the function
> prototypes match.  But flipping into production
> may prefer the system library. Currently it seems awkward to switch later to
> a system library since the library used is hard coded.

Hi Ben,

"system library" means it's pre-installed in some Linux distros?
I installed a Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u1 (2017-12-23) last week and
libsodium is not present.
I use Windows and also isn't available by default.

In any case, how do you ensure libsodium system lib matches your interface code?
What do you do now if target has a different version?

> How do others work around that?
>
> Perhaps it would be good to have the external library initialized into an
> instance variable of FFILIbrary,
> so a user-application can change the external C-library used without
> changing code in someone else's ffi-interface package.
>
> cheers -ben
>
> P.S. On the dream list would be a GUI for managing referenced external
> C-libraries, including browsing their exported functions.

That would be really cool

Hernán

Re: [Pharo-users] HMAC-SHA512

[Ben Coman]

On 8 March 2018 at 02:38, Michael Forster  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:40 PM, Ben Coman  wrote:
> [...]
> >
> > If that is the one available from the Pharo Catalog, when I tried it, it
> > used a different api than the libsodium library supplied by Ubuntu 16.04.
> >
> > It makes this call out...
> >crypto_hash_sha512_ref()
> > but Ubuntu libsodium library did not export that, but instead...
> >   crypto_hash_sha512()
> >
> > I failed to track down the implications of the "_ref",
> > and at that time Crypto-Nacl did not supply a 64-bit library,
> > so a single FFI matching the system supplied libsodium library was
> easier.
> > Also as a minor policy, I prefer to use the system library than one
> compiled
> > by a third-party.
> >
> > cheers -ben
> [...]
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Yes, I recommend using the OS/package-manager supplied libsodium
> (based on https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium). The downloads
> provided on Tony's site were based on early commits that exported the
> "_ref" functions instead:
>
> commit e144f9d40d5695b69306bde729d6d8adcd62b1c4
> Author: Frank Denis 
> Date:   Mon Apr 22 16:30:31 2013 -0700
>
> crypto_hash_sha(256|512) are the exported functions that have
> to be exported.
> _ref are implementations, that shouldn't be exported.
>

Thanks for clarifying that.



>
> To be useful, http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~tonyg/Crypto-Nacl/ should be
> updated to use a system-supplied libsodium.
>

Or at least to the later api.In general there is some advantage in
packaging the C-lib with the Smalltalk package
for people experimenting with it the first time, to ensure the function
prototypes match.  But flipping into production
may prefer the system library. Currently it seems awkward to switch later to
a system library since the library used is hard coded.
How do others work around that?

Perhaps it would be good to have the external library initialized into an
instance variable of FFILIbrary,
so a user-application can change the external C-library used without
changing code in someone else's ffi-interface package.

cheers -ben

P.S. On the dream list would be a GUI for managing referenced external
C-libraries,
including browsing their exported functions.

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Yuriy Babah wrote
> something understood, worked

Great! Feel free to keep asking questions and also there are several Discord
channels where one can often get immediate dialogue and answers.



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for MacOs 10.6.8?

[Sean P. DeNigris]

EstebanLM wrote
> get.pharo.org/30+vm http://get.pharo.org/30+vm; 

And if you prefer a GUI over the command line, Launcher automatically
downloads images pretty far back (I just confirmed that 1.4 works on a MBP
2017) and matches them up to the correct VM. One caveat: if the image is
very old (e.g. the 1.4 above), Launcher will hang when you try to run the
DLed image with a "determining correct VM for image…" dialog. The solution
is simple: create a `pharo.version` text file in the image folder with
`majorVersionNumber asString, minorVersionNumber asString` (e.g. for Pharo
1.4 -> '14'). That will tell Launcher which VM to use. I happily use
Launcher for all my development images. HTH



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

[Hilaire]

A "How to" as we used to have at the linux early time will be very 
helpful to get started.


When I tried on this last summer I lost myself and gave up.

Hilaire


Le 06/03/2018 à 11:55, Guillermo Polito a écrit :

For a more detailed list, you can browse BaselineOfPharoBootstrap.

If you want an image that requires packages that are not there (like 
morphic), you should install them on top and specify those as 
dependencies of your project. That is what we do with the Pharo IDE. 
Take a look at BaselineOfIDE. Again, this could be enhanced and we 
will greatfully accept any contribution, or discuss on skype about the 
details or help people to get into this.


--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

[Yuriy Babah]

something understood, worked

 "
m: = GUI_ListCourtCase new.
m openWithSpec: # defaultSpec2.
"do something"
m inspect
 "
I see an instance variable that is not related to widgets

2018-03-07 22:11 GMT+03:00 Yuriy Babah :

> i'm very pleased to!
> Generally, I'm not a professional programmer. I'm a builder-designer.
> Аlthough I have been interested in programming for a long time. Аnd
> sometimes I use it.
> Faro is very elegant, he has a cool debugger and an inspector, in my
> opinion.
> Well, you yourself probably know this.
> I do my home project in my spare time, very slowly. Because of the large
> amount of basic work now.
> I want to sort out a bunch of court cases of relatives and related
> information. Although, probably, some third-party service would make it
> much easier.
> Probably, it's more just learning Faro and Spec.
> Now there are questions how to associate my ComposableModel subclass and a
> regular class with my code.
> When I do so "l: = GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec: # defaultSpec2." and
> try to look at the variable l, I do not see an instance variable that is
> not related to widgets.
> I'm trying to initialize it in initializeWidjets, because when I create
> the method "initialize", I get an error.
> Worst of all, that i'm not able be in time to investigate the emerging
> issues myself by the time I get the answers.
> I do not want to make you think that I'm trying to get you to do my job )))
> I can formulate my questions a little later))
>
>
> 2018-03-07 17:41 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse :
>
>> I'm happy
>> Let us know about your project! And if you need I can do a code review.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM, Yuriy Babah 
>> wrote:
>> > Yes, i'm undestand. Looks good now.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2018-03-05 23:10 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse :
>> >>
>> >> You should initialize the instance variable
>> >>
>> >> #subjectTextInput
>> >>
>> >> I suggest to do your UI incrementally.
>> >>
>> >> Stef
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Stephane Ducasse
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> > defaultSpec2
>> >> > 
>> >> > ^ SpecLayout composed
>> >> > newColumn: [ :col |
>> >> > col
>> >> > newRow: [ :row |
>> >> > row
>> >> > add: #plaintiffsTextInput;
>> >> > add: #addButtonPlaintiffs ];
>> >> > newRow: [ :row |
>> >> > row
>> >> > add: #defendantsTextInput;
>> >> > add: #addButtonDefendants ];
>> >> > newRow: [ :row |
>> >> > row
>> >> > add: #thirdPartiesTextInput;
>> >> > add: #addButtonThirdParties ];
>> >> > newRow: [ :row | row add: #addButtonCourtCase ] ];
>> >> > yourself
>> >> >
>> >> > is working
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Stephane Ducasse
>> >> >  wrote:
>> >> >> I'm trying to understand.
>> >> >> I do not get a DNU with the following. You cannot put row out of
>> >> >> nowhere.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> defaultSpec
>> >> >> ^ SpecLayout composed
>> >> >>   newColumn: [ :col |
>> >> >> col
>> >> >> newRow: [ :row |
>> >> >>   row
>> >> >>add: #plaintiffsTextInput;
>> >> >>add: #addButtonPlaintiffs ];
>> >> >>   newRow: [ :row |
>> >> >>  row
>> >> >>  add: #defendantsTextInput;
>> >> >>  add: #addButtonDefendants ];
>> >> >>  newRow: [ :row |
>> >> >>  row
>> >> >>  add: #thirdPartiesTextInput;
>> >> >>  add: #addButtonThirdParties ] ];
>> >> >> yourself
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Now I do not understand why when I add the next lines I get an error
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Yuriy Babah <
>> babah.yuri...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> yesterday i did it, and got  -->  doesNotUndestand #layout
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> 2018-03-05 20:28 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <
>> stepharo.s...@gmail.com>:
>> >> 
>> >>  First implement all the missing methods that you use in the spec
>> >>  class
>> >>  method.
>> >>  Then let us know.
>> >> 
>> >>  Stef
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>  On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:56 PM, Yuriy Babah <
>> babah.yuri...@gmail.com>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>  > Thanks for your help, Stef.
>> >>  > Mistakes remain, but I will try to understand them
>> >>  >
>> >>  > 2018-03-04 16:35 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse
>> >>  > :
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> I'm doing a pass on your code
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> OrderedCollection new is better to me than #()
>> >>  >> asOrderedCollection.
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec
>> >>  >> => DNU
>> >>  >> So I added the first missing method, but you 

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

[Yuriy Babah]

i'm very pleased to!
Generally, I'm not a professional programmer. I'm a builder-designer.
Аlthough I have been interested in programming for a long time. Аnd
sometimes I use it.
Faro is very elegant, he has a cool debugger and an inspector, in my
opinion.
Well, you yourself probably know this.
I do my home project in my spare time, very slowly. Because of the large
amount of basic work now.
I want to sort out a bunch of court cases of relatives and related
information. Although, probably, some third-party service would make it
much easier.
Probably, it's more just learning Faro and Spec.
Now there are questions how to associate my ComposableModel subclass and a
regular class with my code.
When I do so "l: = GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec: # defaultSpec2." and
try to look at the variable l, I do not see an instance variable that is
not related to widgets.
I'm trying to initialize it in initializeWidjets, because when I create the
method "initialize", I get an error.
Worst of all, that i'm not able be in time to investigate the emerging
issues myself by the time I get the answers.
I do not want to make you think that I'm trying to get you to do my job )))
I can formulate my questions a little later))


2018-03-07 17:41 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse :

> I'm happy
> Let us know about your project! And if you need I can do a code review.
>
> Stef
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM, Yuriy Babah 
> wrote:
> > Yes, i'm undestand. Looks good now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2018-03-05 23:10 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse :
> >>
> >> You should initialize the instance variable
> >>
> >> #subjectTextInput
> >>
> >> I suggest to do your UI incrementally.
> >>
> >> Stef
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Stephane Ducasse
> >>  wrote:
> >> > defaultSpec2
> >> > 
> >> > ^ SpecLayout composed
> >> > newColumn: [ :col |
> >> > col
> >> > newRow: [ :row |
> >> > row
> >> > add: #plaintiffsTextInput;
> >> > add: #addButtonPlaintiffs ];
> >> > newRow: [ :row |
> >> > row
> >> > add: #defendantsTextInput;
> >> > add: #addButtonDefendants ];
> >> > newRow: [ :row |
> >> > row
> >> > add: #thirdPartiesTextInput;
> >> > add: #addButtonThirdParties ];
> >> > newRow: [ :row | row add: #addButtonCourtCase ] ];
> >> > yourself
> >> >
> >> > is working
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Stephane Ducasse
> >> >  wrote:
> >> >> I'm trying to understand.
> >> >> I do not get a DNU with the following. You cannot put row out of
> >> >> nowhere.
> >> >>
> >> >> defaultSpec
> >> >> ^ SpecLayout composed
> >> >>   newColumn: [ :col |
> >> >> col
> >> >> newRow: [ :row |
> >> >>   row
> >> >>add: #plaintiffsTextInput;
> >> >>add: #addButtonPlaintiffs ];
> >> >>   newRow: [ :row |
> >> >>  row
> >> >>  add: #defendantsTextInput;
> >> >>  add: #addButtonDefendants ];
> >> >>  newRow: [ :row |
> >> >>  row
> >> >>  add: #thirdPartiesTextInput;
> >> >>  add: #addButtonThirdParties ] ];
> >> >> yourself
> >> >>
> >> >> Now I do not understand why when I add the next lines I get an error
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Yuriy Babah  >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> yesterday i did it, and got  -->  doesNotUndestand #layout
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 2018-03-05 20:28 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse <
> stepharo.s...@gmail.com>:
> >> 
> >>  First implement all the missing methods that you use in the spec
> >>  class
> >>  method.
> >>  Then let us know.
> >> 
> >>  Stef
> >> 
> >> 
> >>  On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:56 PM, Yuriy Babah <
> babah.yuri...@gmail.com>
> >>  wrote:
> >>  > Thanks for your help, Stef.
> >>  > Mistakes remain, but I will try to understand them
> >>  >
> >>  > 2018-03-04 16:35 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse
> >>  > :
> >>  >>
> >>  >> I'm doing a pass on your code
> >>  >>
> >>  >> OrderedCollection new is better to me than #()
> >>  >> asOrderedCollection.
> >>  >>
> >>  >> GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec
> >>  >> => DNU
> >>  >> So I added the first missing method, but you should define the
> >>  >> corresponding methods in the class.
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Stephane Ducasse
> >>  >>  wrote:
> >>  >> > Hi yuri
> >>  >> >
> >>  >> > some feedback before looking into spec.
> >>  >> > tab method bodies
> >>  >> > then do not 

Re: [Pharo-users] does pharo 5 work in mac high sierra?

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Paul DeBruicker wrote
> I assume it works fine but I'm thinking about upgrading and just want to
> be sure.

Launched a quick image via Launcher and seems okay



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Re: [Pharo-users] HMAC-SHA512

[Michael Forster]

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:40 PM, Ben Coman  wrote:
[...]
>
> If that is the one available from the Pharo Catalog, when I tried it, it
> used a different api than the libsodium library supplied by Ubuntu 16.04.
>
> It makes this call out...
>crypto_hash_sha512_ref()
> but Ubuntu libsodium library did not export that, but instead...
>   crypto_hash_sha512()
>
> I failed to track down the implications of the "_ref",
> and at that time Crypto-Nacl did not supply a 64-bit library,
> so a single FFI matching the system supplied libsodium library was easier.
> Also as a minor policy, I prefer to use the system library than one compiled
> by a third-party.
>
> cheers -ben
[...]


Hi,

Yes, I recommend using the OS/package-manager supplied libsodium
(based on https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium). The downloads
provided on Tony's site were based on early commits that exported the
"_ref" functions instead:

commit e144f9d40d5695b69306bde729d6d8adcd62b1c4
Author: Frank Denis 
Date:   Mon Apr 22 16:30:31 2013 -0700

crypto_hash_sha(256|512) are the exported functions that have
to be exported.
_ref are implementations, that shouldn't be exported.

To be useful, http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~tonyg/Crypto-Nacl/ should be
updated to use a system-supplied libsodium.


Best,

Mike

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for MacOs 10.6.8?

[stefano franchi]

Dear Marcus,

thanks for the detailed answer.

Let me say that my question did not in any ways imply that Pharo should
assume the burden of maintaining current images and VMs on old machines. My
goal was (is) simply to find out whether it was possible  to repurpose a
number old machines I have laying around by installing *old* versions of
Pharo. And I now have a positive answer, having installed vm30 and verified
that it works perfectly.

In fact, I think adding a few lines to the website listing the last
supported version for the major MacOs releases would be a valuable addition
and nicely complement your commendable policy of keeping everything.

All the best,

Stefano


On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Marcus Denker 
wrote:

>
>
> On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse  > wrote:
>
>> Did you check
>>
>> http://get.pharo.org
>>
>> because we keep everything.
>>
>>
>
> Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I
> started from get.pharo.org, but the zeroconf script did not guess right.
> The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of
> versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
>
> Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on
> http://get.pharo.org would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9?
> It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core
> Duo (NOT the Intel  Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
>
> you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/
>
> But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old
> machines forever… e.g the vm from that time should run,
> but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM
> as we want to actually use the features that
> new VMs provide.
>
> Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on
> new VMs, new image on old VMs …) puts quite some
> constraints on what you can do in future… an maintaining new VMs for all
> possible old MacOS versions could soon just
> use up all our manpower.
>
> So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable
> projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS
> versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure…
> imagine if they decide to not support anything older
> then MaOS 10.9… can we? should we?
>
> There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the
> first thing I would work on is running *old* images on
> *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that
> nicely and in a way that it can be maintained
> and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from
> old to new) would be not part of the VM but
> part of the image.
>
> Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by
> backporting the current VM to the old OS.
> This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some
> old OS related code with the rest of the new VM,
> but that should not be much.
>
> But one question: Considering what developer time costs… I am quite sure
> that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac.
>
> Marcus
>
>


-- 
__
Stefano Franchi

stefano.fran...@gmail.com 
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for MacOs 10.6.8?

[stefano franchi]

Thanks Esteban,

30 works indeed. I haven't had a chance to try 40, will try it tonight.

Cheers,

Stefano



On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 3:41 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

> hi,
>
> I would say
>
> get.pharo.org/30+vm
>
> or
>
> get.pharo.org/20+vm 
>
> one of both should work.
> there is also a chance that
>
> get.pharo.org/40+vm 
>
> … will work, but you need to try it ;)
>
> Esteban
>
> ps: but as Marcus say, it will be an older image and an older VM. Still
> very usable (as it *was* usable at the time), but not the fresh stuff :)
>
>
> On 6 Mar 2018, at 08:47, Marcus Denker  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 5 Mar 2018, at 20:16, stefano franchi 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Stephane Ducasse  > wrote:
>
>> Did you check
>>
>> http://get.pharo.org
>>
>> because we keep everything.
>>
>>
>
> Apologies for not having stated my question more precisely. Indeed, I
> started from get.pharo.org, but the zeroconf script did not guess right.
> The app it downloaded crashes at startup. Then I saw the *long* list of
> versions available and had no idea where to begin. So my real question is:
>
> Does anyone know which among the many VMs available on
> http://get.pharo.org would work on a MacOs Powerbook Pro running 10.6.9?
> It was the latest 32 bit only machine Apple made, based on the Intel Core
> Duo (NOT the Intel  Core 2 Duo that came out a few months later).
>
> you could look for old VMs and downloads here: http://files.pharo.org/
>
> But it is quite hard to for us (with our limited man power) to support old
> machines forever… e.g the vm from that time should run,
> but at some point the VM gets improved and newer images require a newer VM
> as we want to actually use the features that
> new VMs provide.
>
> Keeping everything compatible in all possible directions (old images on
> new VMs, new image on old VMs …) puts quite some
> constraints on what you can do in future… an maintaining new VMs for all
> possible old MacOS versions could soon just
> use up all our manpower.
>
> So this is not a simple problem to solve. Even very financially capable
> projects (like Mozilla) can not support old MacOS
> versions. And they spend 150K per *month* just on CI infrastructure…
> imagine if they decide to not support anything older
> then MaOS 10.9… can we? should we?
>
> There are things to do on this front, but if I would spend effort the
> first thing I would work on is running *old* images on
> *new* VMs and explore what kind of abstraction would be needed to to that
> nicely and in a way that it can be maintained
> and in a way that all the needed code ( e.g. translation byte code from
> old to new) would be not part of the VM but
> part of the image.
>
> Making sure to run *current* images on old Machines can only be done by
> backporting the current VM to the old OS.
> This should be not that hard, worst case is that you need to combine some
> old OS related code with the rest of the new VM,
> but that should not be much.
>
> But one question: Considering what developer time costs… I am quite sure
> that it is cheaper to just buy a current Mac.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>


-- 
__
Stefano Franchi

stefano.fran...@gmail.com 
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

[Stephane Ducasse]

>
>
> Now, I understand we could build images without development tools, but for
> that there is some work needed (not only from the pharo side but also from
> the developer's point of view).
> In the file server you can download latest minimal images both 32 and 64
> bits (http://files.pharo.org/image/70/):
>
>- Pharo-metacello-7.0.0-alpha.build.654.sha.494bbfc.arch.32bit.zip
>
> 2018-03-06
>10:314.4 MB
>
> 
>- Pharo-metacello-7.0.0-alpha.build.654.sha.494bbfc.arch.64bit.zip
>
> 2018-03-06
>10:314.5 MB
>
> 
>
>
> Those are ~4.5M zip files containing 10MB images and 9MB changes files.
> Probably that is small enough for you. We can do better but each line of
> code we remove is indeed a lot of work.
>
> Those images have the following packages installed only:
>
> - Language Kernel + Traits + Class builder + Slots
> - RPackage
> - FFI Kernel
> - Opal Compiler + AST + Chunk files reader writers
> - Announcements
> - Collections
> - Colors
> - Files
> - Others (Hermes, Jobs, Transcript, System packages,  UIManager...)
> - Zinc Character encoders and Buffered streams
> - Network
> - Monticello
> - Metacello + Filetree
>
> For a more detailed list, you can browse BaselineOfPharoBootstrap.
>
> If you want an image that requires packages that are not there (like
> morphic), you should install them on top and specify those as dependencies
> of your project. That is what we do with the Pharo IDE. Take a look at
> BaselineOfIDE. Again, this could be enhanced and we will greatfully accept
> any contribution, or discuss on skype about the details or help people to
> get into this.
>

I love it. It opens so many doors.
4.4 mb for such a system is cool.
I'm eager to see what we will do with carolina.

Stef

Re: [Pharo-users] Ever growing image

[Stephane Ducasse]

Hi hilaire

I think that Pavel sent around a link with the bootstrapped image.
For you, you do not want to play changing the bootstrap. What you want
is to change and load your own customized
baselines on top of the bootstrapped image (probably the one with
compiler and Monti/metacello loaded).
I do not know where they are (running now out of my office).
But the pharo70 build is based on that.
Then with carolina we will start building tools to build smaller
bootstrap and smaller VMs for IoT.

Stef


On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 6:33 PM, Hilaire  wrote:
> Thanks Markus.
>
> I already saw an improvement when building drgeo against latest 32bits P7:
> drgeo image down to 39.9MB...
>
> I use image cleaner plus some packages removal of my own[1], left over of
> the cleaning I was doing on P3. Many of my package cleaning of P4 break on
> P7. There is still place for improvement. I remembered doing  it one by on
> P3, keeping the safe one, then excluding the one breaking the image.
>
> Now if there is a guide to try bootstrap without the need to hit the head on
> the door, I am interested to read it.
>
> Hilaire
>
>
> [1]
> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~drgeo-developers/drgeo/trunk/files/506/src/DrGeoII-Installer
>
> Le 05/03/2018 à 08:39, Marcus Denker a écrit :
>>
>> I have put on my TODO:
>> - do a pass on ImageCleaner Pharo6 and Pharo7
>> - start to find duplicated code to not load anymore in the
>> bootstrap (e.g.
>>  old compiler, inspector…).
>
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] my mistake on Spec?

[Stephane Ducasse]

I'm happy
Let us know about your project! And if you need I can do a code review.

Stef

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM, Yuriy Babah  wrote:
> Yes, i'm undestand. Looks good now.
>
>
>
>
> 2018-03-05 23:10 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse :
>>
>> You should initialize the instance variable
>>
>> #subjectTextInput
>>
>> I suggest to do your UI incrementally.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Stephane Ducasse
>>  wrote:
>> > defaultSpec2
>> > 
>> > ^ SpecLayout composed
>> > newColumn: [ :col |
>> > col
>> > newRow: [ :row |
>> > row
>> > add: #plaintiffsTextInput;
>> > add: #addButtonPlaintiffs ];
>> > newRow: [ :row |
>> > row
>> > add: #defendantsTextInput;
>> > add: #addButtonDefendants ];
>> > newRow: [ :row |
>> > row
>> > add: #thirdPartiesTextInput;
>> > add: #addButtonThirdParties ];
>> > newRow: [ :row | row add: #addButtonCourtCase ] ];
>> > yourself
>> >
>> > is working
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Stephane Ducasse
>> >  wrote:
>> >> I'm trying to understand.
>> >> I do not get a DNU with the following. You cannot put row out of
>> >> nowhere.
>> >>
>> >> defaultSpec
>> >> ^ SpecLayout composed
>> >>   newColumn: [ :col |
>> >> col
>> >> newRow: [ :row |
>> >>   row
>> >>add: #plaintiffsTextInput;
>> >>add: #addButtonPlaintiffs ];
>> >>   newRow: [ :row |
>> >>  row
>> >>  add: #defendantsTextInput;
>> >>  add: #addButtonDefendants ];
>> >>  newRow: [ :row |
>> >>  row
>> >>  add: #thirdPartiesTextInput;
>> >>  add: #addButtonThirdParties ] ];
>> >> yourself
>> >>
>> >> Now I do not understand why when I add the next lines I get an error
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Yuriy Babah 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> yesterday i did it, and got  -->  doesNotUndestand #layout
>> >>>
>> >>> 2018-03-05 20:28 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse :
>> 
>>  First implement all the missing methods that you use in the spec
>>  class
>>  method.
>>  Then let us know.
>> 
>>  Stef
>> 
>> 
>>  On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:56 PM, Yuriy Babah 
>>  wrote:
>>  > Thanks for your help, Stef.
>>  > Mistakes remain, but I will try to understand them
>>  >
>>  > 2018-03-04 16:35 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse
>>  > :
>>  >>
>>  >> I'm doing a pass on your code
>>  >>
>>  >> OrderedCollection new is better to me than #()
>>  >> asOrderedCollection.
>>  >>
>>  >> GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec
>>  >> => DNU
>>  >> So I added the first missing method, but you should define the
>>  >> corresponding methods in the class.
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Stephane Ducasse
>>  >>  wrote:
>>  >> > Hi yuri
>>  >> >
>>  >> > some feedback before looking into spec.
>>  >> > tab method bodies
>>  >> > then do not use instance variables with uppercase.
>>  >> >
>>  >> > Stef
>>  >> >
>>  >> >
>>  >> > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Yuriy Babah
>>  >> > 
>>  >> > wrote:
>>  >> >> changed
>>  >> >>
>>  >> >> 2018-03-04 16:20 GMT+03:00 Yuriy Babah
>>  >> >> :
>>  >> >>>
>>  >> >>> Is it enough if I just attach it?
>>  >> >>>
>>  >> >>> I slightly changed the code, that leads to error:
>>  >> >>> "DoesNotUndestand
>>  >> >>> #plaintiffsTextInput" .
>>  >> >>>
>>  >> >>> Now I'm studying Help on Spec in SystemBrowser .
>>  >> >>>
>>  >> >>>
>>  >> >>>
>>  >> >>> 2018-03-04 15:23 GMT+03:00 Stephane Ducasse
>>  >> >>> :
>>  >> 
>>  >>  Hi Yuriy
>>  >> 
>>  >>  this is difficult to debug remotely. Do you have your code
>>  >>  somewhere?
>>  >> 
>>  >>  Stef
>>  >> 
>>  >>  On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Babah
>>  >>  
>>  >>  wrote:
>>  >>  > Hi!
>>  >>  > I'm trying to write GUI element with Spec, Pharo6.1x64 on
>>  >>  > Linux.
>>  >>  > Do according to the SpecBooklet.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > Finished the fragment, and try do:
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > ui := GUI_ListCourtCase new openWithSpec . -> #value was
>>  >>  > sent to
>>  >>  > nil.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > I look in a 

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANN] 64 bits support preview

[Ben Coman]

Side question.  What is the status of Windows support for OSSubProcess ?
cheers -ben

On 6 March 2018 at 11:19, Mariano Martinez Peck 
wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Thanks for Guillermo Polito we now have 64 bits support for OSSubprocess.
> You can see the required changes in this PR [1]. I made a branch called
> `support64bits` so that you can help us test it even if CI said it was good
> [2]. If you do test it and come back to us with the results, please tell us
> which OS you used.
>
> To install from the branch:
>
> Metacello new
>   configuration: 'OSSubprocess';
>   repository: 'github://marianopeck/OSSubprocess:support64bits/
> repository';
> version: #stable;
> load.
>
>
> Roadmap: Current release is v0.2.5. So I will let that release for Pharo
> <= 5.0. I will make a new release with the Pharo 64 bits and call it v0.3.
> That release should be used for Pharo 6.x. Once v0.3 is out, I will make a
> new release v0.4 with some changes I wanted to do since a lng time and
> its a small refactor to minimize OSSubprocess dependency on OSProcesses
> primitives (at VM side). This is thanks to Holger Freyther and Alistair
> Grant [3]. As that requires a new VM, then v0.4 should be used in Pharo >=
> 7.0.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/marianopeck/OSSubprocess/pull/30
> [2] https://travis-ci.org/guillep/OSSubprocess/builds/349280174
> [3] https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/pull/142
>
> --
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Mounting/seeing samba network files on Pharo

[Ben Coman]

Can you provide a bit more info about the setup.
e.g. For two machines/users, describe the paths to the executables that are
run and the method of launching.

cheers -ben


On 5 March 2018 at 21:41, Cédrick Béler  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I try to use Pharo in my lecture, therefore in our virtualized
> architecture.
>
> The problem is once dowloaded and launched (on Desktop or Document - the
> student repository that is mounted on the virtualized machine), Pharo
> cannot access the networked file system (source is not accessible, save as
> not possible, etc..).
>
> Does someone has experience on that ?
> Is it possibile to mount a samba directory ?
>
> TIA,
>
> Cédrick
>

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] PharoDays?

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 28 Feb 2018, at 18:09, Stephane Ducasse  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys
> 
> many people are asking when and where there will be PharoDays.
> And we do not know.
> We are looking for local organisers and else we do it at Lille.
> Now what would be a good date?
> 
> What about
> 7-8 June?

yes, is ok for me :)

Esteban

> 
> Stef
>