Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PEAR (was: Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 /ext/midgard config.m4)

[Alexander Bokovoy]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 01:00:15AM +0100, Jani Taskinen wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >Having midgard in the PEAR infrastructure makes sense once the PEAR
> >infrastructure is such that it is easy to install PEAR components that
> >include C bits.  And yes, perhaps the midgard folks are the right people
> >to push this along, if they are willing and able.
> 
> Isn't php-gtk done like the way the PEAR (C) components should be done?
> At least that's how I compiled that extension. Separately from PHP.
> Using phpize. So I would guess having e.g. midgard outside PHP shouldn't
> matter at all?
Before separating PEAR from PHP CVS several serious problems should be solved.
First and main problem is the building environment. I've already did a post
on php-dev@ which describes this problem several weeks ago so I'll just outline
a problem: if extension uses several PHP_ARG_WITH or PHP_ENABLE to tune
behaviour (=which part to compile in), all of them will be compiled in regardless
of user selection. That's due erroreous code which decides that if $php_always_shared
set to 'yes', then all $PHP_BLAH should be set to 'yes'.

> >Another motivator is the readline extension.  Get that into PEAR as a
> >separate easily installable PEAR component and make it LGPL'ed and we
> >avoid any Stallman hassles on that particular extension.
> 
> True, true. :)
Readline is an example of such extension which fail to compile right now
as self contained extension (PEAR module).

-- 
Sincerely yours, Alexander Bokovoy 
  The Midgard Project   | www.midgard-project.org |Aurora R&D team 
Minsk Linux Users Group |www.minsk-lug.net|  www.aurora-linux.com  
ALT Linux Team  |www.alt-linux.org| Architecte Open Source
-- Dijkstra probably hates me
(Linus Torvalds, in kernel/sched.c)

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PEAR (was: Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4/ext/midgard config.m4)

[Jani Taskinen]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Emiliano wrote:

>Zeev Suraski wrote:
>>
>> At 02:04 20/3/2001, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>> >No, we need tighter integration.  We want to be able to do something along
>> >the lines of "pear pear.php.net/midgard" and it would go and fetch
>> >the the component, build it and install it.
>>
>> I completely agree with Andi about this.  If it won't be simple, it will
>> simply not be.  We can start simple, and work our way up.
>
>For unixoids, this could probably be a glue script that uses CVS.
>There'd
>probably need to be checkin-time phpize setup or somesuch to make it
>distribution-ready, or people would need autoconf et al on their systems
>allways.
>
>I don't know how this would work for windows system, though.

CVS is not needed here..
I'd like to see something like the RPMs or debian .deps work:

# pear --install cms:midgard
# pear --install payment:verisign
# pear --update cms:midgard
.
.

# pear --update all
# pear --remove

Of course there should be some package info file for each extension,
be it C or PHP one, ie. dependancy info, what the extension provides, etc.
So that the packages depending on some other extension could be
identified and produce some warning if the already installed packages
don't provide what the to be installed one needs..

Maybe there already is something like this in the works? I'm not on any
of the pear mailing lists so I don't know. :(

(Cc: to the pear-dev list)

--Jani



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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PEAR (was: Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 /ext/midgard config.m4)

[Zeev Suraski]

That's great, but it shouldn't be the starting point for the project... 
Jani is right that whenever we speak about separating PEAR, or putting 
extensions in it, it's always at some point in the future.  Opensource 
projects usually start up and roll once they reach some critical mass, and 
waiting for a certain particular development to happen isn't usually 
beneficial.  If there'll be people working on PEAR modules, the incentive 
for the 'pear' utility author will be much higher to make it work, and he 
may also have some support from others.  It's been 14 months since PEAR was 
born, I think it may be a good idea to try and let it walk a bit.

Zeev

At 02:11 20/3/2001, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>See pear/scripts/pear
>
>The framework is there.
>
>On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Zeev Suraski wrote:
>
> > At 02:04 20/3/2001, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > >No, we need tighter integration.  We want to be able to do something along
> > >the lines of "pear pear.php.net/midgard" and it would go and fetch
> > >the the component, build it and install it.
> >
> > I completely agree with Andi about this.  If it won't be simple, it will
> > simply not be.  We can start simple, and work our way up.
> >
> > Zeev
> >

--
Zeev Suraski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CTO &  co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PEAR (was: Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4/ext/midgard config.m4)

[Rasmus Lerdorf]

> Zeev Suraski wrote:
> >
> > At 02:04 20/3/2001, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> > >No, we need tighter integration.  We want to be able to do something along
> > >the lines of "pear pear.php.net/midgard" and it would go and fetch
> > >the the component, build it and install it.
> >
> > I completely agree with Andi about this.  If it won't be simple, it will
> > simply not be.  We can start simple, and work our way up.
>
> For unixoids, this could probably be a glue script that uses CVS.
> There'd
> probably need to be checkin-time phpize setup or somesuch to make it
> distribution-ready, or people would need autoconf et al on their systems
> allways.
>
> I don't know how this would work for windows system, though.

Well, just like the snapshots at snaps.php.net, any C extensions should be
pre-autoconfed and should not require it on the user end.  And no, we
don't want to do software distribution via cvs.  Straight HTTP should be
fine.

-Rasmus


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PEAR (was: Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4/ext/midgard config.m4)

[Emiliano]

Zeev Suraski wrote:
> 
> At 02:04 20/3/2001, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >No, we need tighter integration.  We want to be able to do something along
> >the lines of "pear pear.php.net/midgard" and it would go and fetch
> >the the component, build it and install it.
> 
> I completely agree with Andi about this.  If it won't be simple, it will
> simply not be.  We can start simple, and work our way up.

For unixoids, this could probably be a glue script that uses CVS.
There'd
probably need to be checkin-time phpize setup or somesuch to make it
distribution-ready, or people would need autoconf et al on their systems
allways.

I don't know how this would work for windows system, though.

Emile

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PEAR (was: Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: php4 /ext/midgard config.m4)

[Zeev Suraski]

At 02:04 20/3/2001, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>No, we need tighter integration.  We want to be able to do something along
>the lines of "pear pear.php.net/midgard" and it would go and fetch
>the the component, build it and install it.

I completely agree with Andi about this.  If it won't be simple, it will 
simply not be.  We can start simple, and work our way up.

Zeev


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