subject:"RE\: \[PHP\] Small LAMP install\/distro"


On 6/22/07, Warren Vail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I can recommend Fedora Core 6, it has more uptodate Apache, PHP and MySQL,
than does Red Hat Enterprise 4, which is what the company I consult for
installed on their VM-ware environment.  We spent a lot of time upgrading
everything on the VM Host because the RH Enterprise was so far behind.  I
run the Fedora 6 on a spare machine at home, and everything that version is
far superior, don't even try to convince the corporate types though, they
want a corporate name behind things, like there might be someone to blame,
other than themselves, if something goes wrong.

I've also used Free BSD, Redhat 9, and older versions of Suse, but prefer
the Fedora.  The MySQL on Fedora 6 has master/slave replication, if you know
what that is.

Warren


Yes, Fedora Core is a very good choice, I used it for a few years
before I started writing my own Linux..

Tijnema

ps. Please don't top post!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:41 PM
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

Yeah.. I'm aware.  As I stated in my original email:

Ideally I'd like to keep using my traditional Windows apps to do
development...

I'm comfortable moving around in linux, but the tools and OS I choose to use
are all Windows-centric.   But instead of installing Apache and PHP and
MySQL on my Windows machine at work and at home, as I have in the past, then
lose interest in the project I'm working on and have a bunch of servers
installed that I'm not using, I'd like to set up a virtual machine to keep
all the server/test environment contained out of the way.

And while I'm 'comfortable' getting around in linux and know a few tricks, I
don't feel that I know it well enough to try to start trimming out a gig or
two of stuff and fiddling with swap space settings and all to make my own
streamline distro with the apps I want.  Especially if one already exists.

I'd rather waste my time developing PHP apps that nobody but me will ever
use, than fiddling with OS streamlining and configuration.

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

Did you know that VM-ware actually runs under RH linux?

Warren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:16 PM
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

Yeah, I took a quick look at Damn Small Linux.   And have been playing
around with Puppy Linux (which is pretty cool too).

I may end up using one of those.  Wanted to see if there was a distro with
everything built into it already (Damn Small seems to have a lot of average
user apps and not really developer/small server type stuff)

Thanks for the suggestion though, Daniel.

(And yes, I top-post. Get the pitchforks!)

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

On 6/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Ok, done all my googling and experimenting, now I'm tossing it to you
guys.

 Can anyone recommend a small, no frills, LAMP-centric linux
package/distro?

 What I'm doing is setting up a test/development environment in a
 VMWare
virtual machine to keep things all nice and comparmentalized.  It's going to
emulate (at least in PHP and MySQL version and configuration) my web host.
Ideally I'd like to keep using my traditional Windows apps to do
development, but save my work to a Samba share on the virtual machine (so
guess toss Samba into that too).

 Maybe there's better ways to do what I want, but now I'm discovered a
challenge that I'd like to overcome.

 I have something called Grandma's LAMP, which is actually pretty cool.
It runs Xubuntu, which I dig, but still takes up 1.5gig (and is config'd for
a max of 10gb
 HD space).   It has the full GUI and everything installed.

 GUI is nice, but not 100% necessary.  AMP + Samba is good.  And I'm
transporting this all around on a 2GB thunbdrive (oh yeah, did I not mention
that?).

 If it was sans-GUI, I don't see why the whole thing couldn't be under
500MB.

 Thought maybe someone out there had seen a distro pack specifically
 geared
for quick and dirty LAMP + Samba setup.

 -TG


   Google for DSL (Damn Small Linux).

   I've used that a few times myself.  Pretty cool.

--
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107


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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

First, funny that you say that from a Gmail account, where top-posting is 
encouraged by the mail system.

Second, and not to get into a big discussion about top vs bottom posting, but I 
top-post because typically if I'm involved in a conversation, I know what's 
been said already and don't want to scroll past a ton of it to get to the meat. 
 To me, an original message is included in a reply as a quick reference as to 
what's being replied to and a reminder of what's been said.

The people top-posting probably screws the most are the daily digest readers.   
But even then, if a reply is properly trimmed, then it shouldn't matter if it's 
top or bottom posted.

Doesn't help that ePrompter (little app I use to check many pop3 and web based 
emails) has primative original email handling where it won't indent with  or 
anything, pretty much forcing you to top-post if you use it to reply.

I prefer top posting and don't know why there's so much animosity against it.  
When I open an email, the first thing I want to see is what someone said in 
that email.  If I need a reminder of what was already said, or clarification on 
what they're replying to exactly, then I can scroll down.

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

ps. Please don't top post!

Tijnema

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions.. but again, the question wasn't what distro of 
linux to use.  And I don't mind upgrading things.  The question is what would 
someone recommend for a really small distro of linux preferably with the bare essentials 
+ apache, mysql, php and samba.

Failing that, I'll just grab one of the small linux distros out there and 
install the stuff I need manually.  I just don't know if some of those small 
distros are missing anything that would make installing AMP+Samba tricky.

Anyway, I'll figure it out.  It's not a huge priority, but something that'd 
make my  hobby development a lot easier.

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

I can recommend Fedora Core 6, it has more uptodate Apache, PHP and MySQL,
than does Red Hat Enterprise 4, which is what the company I consult for
installed on their VM-ware environment.  We spent a lot of time upgrading
everything on the VM Host because the RH Enterprise was so far behind.  I
run the Fedora 6 on a spare machine at home, and everything that version is
far superior, don't even try to convince the corporate types though, they
want a corporate name behind things, like there might be someone to blame,
other than themselves, if something goes wrong.

I've also used Free BSD, Redhat 9, and older versions of Suse, but prefer
the Fedora.  The MySQL on Fedora 6 has master/slave replication, if you know
what that is.

Warren 



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I would install Fedora Core 6.

When asked which packages to install, uncheck everything.

Then, once you have the install complete, using yum install
httpd
php
mysql
samba

Here is my current running packages for the above programs

httpd-2.2.4-2.fc6
libdbi-dbd-mysql-0.8.1a-1.2.2
mysql-5.0.27-1.fc6
mysql-connector-odbc-3.51.12-2.2
mysql-server-5.0.27-1.fc6
php-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-cli-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-common-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mbstring-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mysql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pdo-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pear-1.4.9-4
php-pgsql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
samba-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-client-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-common-3.0.24-7.fc6
system-config-samba-1.2.35-1.1


don't install the devel packages of anything

all of this installed on top of the base install should be well under 1g

make sure and run 'yum update'

seems like there are updates every couple hours.

--
Jim Lucas

   Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
   and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

2007-06-22 Thread Daniel Brown

My thoughts exactly, TG. I was just thinking about that this
morning, in fact --- exactly the stuff you said.

That aside, I started using a DSL/Knoppix distro to modify to
automatically install a server environment as opposed to the desktop
environment. As such, without the need for a GUI, et cetera, it
should be even smaller than the 50MB ISO it is now, and will be even
more embed-able. I'm only working on it in my spare time, so it may
not be ready for use when you need it, but if I keep moving forward
with it, I'll keep you posted if you'd like I'll even write the
updates up top here.

On 6/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

First, funny that you say that from a Gmail account, where top-posting is
encouraged by the mail system.

Second, and not to get into a big discussion about top vs bottom posting, but I
top-post because typically if I'm involved in a conversation, I know what's
been said already and don't want to scroll past a ton of it to get to the meat.
To me, an original message is included in a reply as a quick reference as to
what's being replied to and a reminder of what's been said.

The people top-posting probably screws the most are the daily digest readers.
But even then, if a reply is properly trimmed, then it shouldn't matter if it's
top or bottom posted.

Doesn't help that ePrompter (little app I use to check many pop3 and web based emails) has
primative original email handling where it won't indent with or anything,
pretty much forcing you to top-post if you use it to reply.

I prefer top posting and don't know why there's so much animosity against it.
When I open an email, the first thing I want to see is what someone said in
that email. If I need a reminder of what was already said, or clarification on
what they're replying to exactly, then I can scroll down.

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

ps. Please don't top post!

Tijnema

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[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

Excellent information Jim!  Thanks a ton!   I really wish I knew linux more 
intimately so I knew what was a vital organ and what was an appendix :)

Your suggestions sound like exactly what I'm looking for.  Greatly appreciated!

Actually.. one question.  Won't it try to set up a swap partition?  Or will 
what you recommend keep that to a minimum too?

Thanks again..  finally some useful information to a simple question. hah

(not that I don't appreciate the advice that's been given so far.. it's just 
not what I was looking for)

-TG


= = = Original message = = =

I would install Fedora Core 6.

When asked which packages to install, uncheck everything.

Then, once you have the install complete, using yum install
~httpd
~php
~mysql
~samba

Here is my current running packages for the above programs

httpd-2.2.4-2.fc6
libdbi-dbd-mysql-0.8.1a-1.2.2
mysql-5.0.27-1.fc6
mysql-connector-odbc-3.51.12-2.2
mysql-server-5.0.27-1.fc6
php-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-cli-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-common-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mbstring-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mysql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pdo-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pear-1.4.9-4
php-pgsql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
samba-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-client-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-common-3.0.24-7.fc6
system-config-samba-1.2.35-1.1


don't install the devel packages of anything

all of this installed on top of the base install should be well under 1g

make sure and run 'yum update'

seems like there are updates every couple hours.

-- 
Jim Lucas

Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
 by William Shakespeare


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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Excellent information Jim! Thanks a ton! I really wish I knew linux more
intimately so I knew what was a vital organ and what was an appendix :)

Your suggestions sound like exactly what I'm looking for. Greatly appreciated!

Actually.. one question. Won't it try to set up a swap partition? Or will
what you recommend keep that to a minimum too?

Thanks again.. finally some useful information to a simple question. hah

(not that I don't appreciate the advice that's been given so far.. it's just
not what I was looking for)

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

I would install Fedora Core 6.

When asked which packages to install, uncheck everything.

Then, once you have the install complete, using yum install
~httpd
~php
~mysql
~samba

Here is my current running packages for the above programs

httpd-2.2.4-2.fc6
libdbi-dbd-mysql-0.8.1a-1.2.2
mysql-5.0.27-1.fc6
mysql-connector-odbc-3.51.12-2.2
mysql-server-5.0.27-1.fc6
php-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-cli-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-common-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mbstring-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mysql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pdo-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pear-1.4.9-4
php-pgsql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
samba-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-client-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-common-3.0.24-7.fc6
system-config-samba-1.2.35-1.1

don't install the devel packages of anything

all of this installed on top of the base install should be well under 1g

make sure and run 'yum update'

seems like there are updates every couple hours.

I have never tried setting up an install without one. I'm sure that it can be used without one
though, you might just be limited on what you can do with it.

But what it sounds like you are wanting to do with it, it won't matter. If you are running this
through VM Ware, you will allot it a given amount of hard drive space. To the installer, that will
look like one large hard drive, that you can partition and allocate to your hearts desire. Meaning,
that you should be able to have a swap file or not. Just a matter of creating the partition for it
or not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your intentions are??? If so, please explain
further.

--
Jim Lucas

Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

2007-06-22 Thread Robert Cummings

Don't you punks read the archives??

http://marc.info/?l=php-generalm=106579709910174w=2
http://marc.info/?l=php-generalm=107902806617669w=2
http://marc.info/?l=php-generalm=109556769132522w=2

There's always someone who gets their nickers all bunched up with
respect to top posting :B

Cheers,
Rob.


On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 11:15 -0400, Daniel Brown wrote:
 My thoughts exactly, TG.  I was just thinking about that this
 morning, in fact --- exactly the stuff you said.
 
 That aside, I started using a DSL/Knoppix distro to modify to
 automatically install a server environment as opposed to the desktop
 environment.  As such, without the need for a GUI, et cetera, it
 should be even smaller than the 50MB ISO it is now, and will be even
 more embed-able.  I'm only working on it in my spare time, so it may
 not be ready for use when you need it, but if I keep moving forward
 with it, I'll keep you posted if you'd like I'll even write the
 updates up top here.
 
 On 6/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  First, funny that you say that from a Gmail account, where top-posting is 
  encouraged by the mail system.
 
  Second, and not to get into a big discussion about top vs bottom posting, 
  but I top-post because typically if I'm involved in a conversation, I know 
  what's been said already and don't want to scroll past a ton of it to get 
  to the meat.  To me, an original message is included in a reply as a quick 
  reference as to what's being replied to and a reminder of what's been said.
 
  The people top-posting probably screws the most are the daily digest 
  readers.   But even then, if a reply is properly trimmed, then it shouldn't 
  matter if it's top or bottom posted.
 
  Doesn't help that ePrompter (little app I use to check many pop3 and web 
  based emails) has primative original email handling where it won't indent 
  with  or anything, pretty much forcing you to top-post if you use it to 
  reply.
 
  I prefer top posting and don't know why there's so much animosity against 
  it.  When I open an email, the first thing I want to see is what someone 
  said in that email.  If I need a reminder of what was already said, or 
  clarification on what they're replying to exactly, then I can scroll down.
 
  -TG
 
  = = = Original message = = =
 
  ps. Please don't top post!
 
  Tijnema
 
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 -- 
 Daniel P. Brown
 [office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
 [mobile] (570-) 766-8107
 
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RE: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

Thanks for the suggestions.. but again, the question wasn't what distro of 
linux to use.  And I don't mind upgrading things.  The question is what would 
someone recommend for a really small distro of linux preferably with the bare 
essentials + apache, mysql, php and samba.

Failing that, I'll just grab one of the small linux distros out there and 
install the stuff I need manually.  I just don't know if some of those small 
distros are missing anything that would make installing AMP+Samba tricky.

Anyway, I'll figure it out.  It's not a huge priority, but something that'd 
make my  hobby development a lot easier.

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

I can recommend Fedora Core 6, it has more uptodate Apache, PHP and MySQL,
than does Red Hat Enterprise 4, which is what the company I consult for
installed on their VM-ware environment.  We spent a lot of time upgrading
everything on the VM Host because the RH Enterprise was so far behind.  I
run the Fedora 6 on a spare machine at home, and everything that version is
far superior, don't even try to convince the corporate types though, they
want a corporate name behind things, like there might be someone to blame,
other than themselves, if something goes wrong.

I've also used Free BSD, Redhat 9, and older versions of Suse, but prefer
the Fedora.  The MySQL on Fedora 6 has master/slave replication, if you know
what that is.

Warren 


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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

Jim Lucas wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Excellent information Jim! Thanks a ton! I really wish I knew linux
more intimately so I knew what was a vital organ and what was an
appendix :)

one other thing.

fedore + yum will do all the work for you with regards to decencies and system
requirements.

The reason I de-select everything from the installer, is that it likes to install a bunch of stuff
that I will never you. Plus it is just more crap to try and keep up-to-date and happy.

Then, I only install exactly what I need. But one nice thing is, is that the package manager (rpm)
is rather handy. You can install stuff, test with it, build with it, then remove it when it is no
longer needed.

You might check into Fedora Core 7. It was just released at the first of this
month.

Fedora put themselves on a 5 month version window. So, version 8 is going to be out in November.
You can check the website for details on that.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/

This will give you all the info you need.

Your suggestions sound like exactly what I'm looking for. Greatly
appreciated!

Actually.. one question. Won't it try to set up a swap partition? Or
will what you recommend keep that to a minimum too?

you can choose to customize the partition process, and at that point, you can create a 100meg swap
if you want.

Thanks again.. finally some useful information to a simple question. hah

(not that I don't appreciate the advice that's been given so far..
it's just not what I was looking for)

-TG

= = = Original message = = =

I would install Fedora Core 6.

When asked which packages to install, uncheck everything.

Then, once you have the install complete, using yum install
~httpd
~php
~mysql
~samba

Here is my current running packages for the above programs

don't install the devel packages of anything

all of this installed on top of the base install should be well under 1g

make sure and run 'yum update'

seems like there are updates every couple hours.

I have never tried setting up an install without one. I'm sure that it
can be used without one though, you might just be limited on what you
can do with it.

But what it sounds like you are wanting to do with it, it won't matter.
If you are running this through VM Ware, you will allot it a given
amount of hard drive space. To the installer, that will look like one
large hard drive, that you can partition and allocate to your hearts
desire. Meaning, that you should be able to have a swap file or not.
Just a matter of creating the partition for it or not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your intentions are??? If so, please
explain further.

--
Jim Lucas

Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion.
Q: Why is top posting bad?

This explains everything ^^^

On 6/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

First, funny that you say that from a Gmail account, where top-posting is
encouraged by the mail system.

All email clients I know reply at top, but one single click and it's done :)
And it's not only top posting, it's also good to comment at specific
parts of somebody's else reply, and write your comment under that, and
not at the top of your message.

Yes, but if we have quite long topics, and you refer to some piece of
tekst in the middle of it, then we need to guess where you are talking
about?

The people top-posting probably screws the most are the daily digest readers.
But even then, if a reply is properly trimmed, then it shouldn't matter if it's
top or bottom posted.

All i can say:
Get a decent mail client.

-TG

Maybe for you, but when I open a thread, it's nice to start reading
from the beginning of the thread huh? And when you didn't read the
whole thread, and you see a message from someone so that you know
where he's replying to?
If you're top posting then everyone would need to scroll down first,
and then read the post from bottom to top :S

Tijnema

= = = Original message = = =

ps. Please don't top post!

Tijnema

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Excellent information Jim!  Thanks a ton!   I really wish I knew linux more 
intimately so I knew what was a vital organ and what was an appendix :)

Your suggestions sound like exactly what I'm looking for.  Greatly appreciated!

Actually.. one question.  Won't it try to set up a swap partition?  Or will 
what you recommend keep that to a minimum too?

Thanks again..  finally some useful information to a simple question. hah

(not that I don't appreciate the advice that's been given so far.. it's just 
not what I was looking for)

-TG


= = = Original message = = =

I would install Fedora Core 6.

When asked which packages to install, uncheck everything.

Then, once you have the install complete, using yum install
~httpd
~php
~mysql
~samba

Here is my current running packages for the above programs

httpd-2.2.4-2.fc6
libdbi-dbd-mysql-0.8.1a-1.2.2
mysql-5.0.27-1.fc6
mysql-connector-odbc-3.51.12-2.2
mysql-server-5.0.27-1.fc6
php-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-cli-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-common-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mbstring-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-mysql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pdo-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
php-pear-1.4.9-4
php-pgsql-5.1.6-3.6.fc6
samba-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-client-3.0.24-7.fc6
samba-common-3.0.24-7.fc6
system-config-samba-1.2.35-1.1


don't install the devel packages of anything

all of this installed on top of the base install should be well under 1g

make sure and run 'yum update'

seems like there are updates every couple hours.


Also, just noticed this page for the first time.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD

Look at option 8

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Jim Lucas

   Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
   and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

Thanks again for the info, Jim.  will look into the 'install to flash drive' 
information.   Technically that's not what I'm doing, just want to store the 
virtual machine on the flash drive, but the installation instructions should be 
tight enough to be pertinent still.

I think you got close enough understanding to what I'm trying to do. :)


= = = Original message = = =

I have never tried setting up an install without one.  I'm sure that it can be 
used without one though, you might just be limited on what you can do with it.

But what it sounds like you are wanting to do with it, it won't matter.  If you 
are running this through VM Ware, you will allot it a given amount of hard 
drive space.  To the installer, that will look like one large hard drive, that 
you can partition and allocate to your hearts desire.  Meaning, that you should 
be able to have a swap file or not.  Just a matter of creating the partition 
for it or not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your intentions are???  If so, please explain 
further.

-- 
Jim Lucas

Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.

Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
 by William Shakespeare



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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

logic is subjective.

When I read Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion., I already 
knew what you were talking about without having to read the question.. because 
I knew what was being discussed in this thread.  If it wasn't an answer to my 
original question, then it was about top-posting vs bottom-posting.

To me, A: then Q:, in this context, makes perfect sense and is therefore 
'logical'.  If people have a problem with determining context and having short 
term memory loss, then I don't know what to say.  Hmm..  maybe that's a good 
question to put on our job interview list for prospective new programmers.  Do 
you have an opinion on top posting vs bottom posting?  just to see how they 
answer.

Bottom posting makes sense if you're using papyrus scrolls.  Or are forced into 
a linear discussion format for some reason.  Email is a little more flexible 
than that.

Does it confuse you reading my messages like this?  Do you find yourself 
drifting to the bottom before the top makes any sense at all?   I'm guessing 
not.  Answer this, did you even look at or read your 'original message' below 
before comprehending my message up here?   Probably not, because you already 
know what was said and what I'm responding to.  Tell me I'm wrong.

It's an exceedingly silly conversation and is probably on a list of 'holy wars' 
somewhere.   I just don't get why 'top posting' is so bad.  If it's all for the 
sake of 'logic' then how come it seems perfectly logical to me but is still 
somehow 'illogical' or 'breaks logical flow'?

Anyway..  I'm sure there'll be more silly debate later.

-TG

PS. Don't read below.  It break's logical flow.  You might sprain something.

= = = Original message = = =

A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion.
Q: Why is top posting bad?

This explains everything ^^^


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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro

2007-06-22 Thread Stut


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

logic is subjective.

When I read Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion.,
I already knew what you were talking about without having to read the
question.. because I knew what was being discussed in this thread.
If it wasn't an answer to my original question, then it was about
top-posting vs bottom-posting.


I was going to stay out of this discussion because I've seen it all 
before so many times that I'm bored of it now, but this comment hit one 
of my buttons.


This is an incredibly selfish attitude for several reasons...

1) Not all of us keep up with the list in real time. In fact, I'd put 
money on it being a very small percentage of the subscribers. Top 
posting means it requires more effort to remember where a thread had 
gotten to.


2) This also applies to the archives. This list gets archived on a lot 
of sites, and if you hit one particular message from a search engine you 
will have the same problem. By responding inside the email to which you 
are responding, you are aligning your comments in an appropriate 
context. By top posting you are making it more difficult for people to 
understand the context.


3) This is basically the same as point 1, but I think it's still worth 
making. I don't know about anyone else, but this is 1 of 14 lists I 
subscribe to. Keeping track of what's happening in all current threads 
in all those lists is not possible, and it helps a great deal if context 
is built into the messages.


In my opinion these are the reasons why top posting is bad etiquette. It 
devalues the usefulness of the discussion.


-Stut

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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro


On 6/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

logic is subjective.

When I read Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion., I already 
knew what you were talking about without having to read the question.. because I knew 
what was being discussed in this thread.  If it wasn't an answer to my original question, 
then it was about top-posting vs bottom-posting.

To me, A: then Q:, in this context, makes perfect sense and is therefore 'logical'.  If 
people have a problem with determining context and having short term memory loss, then I 
don't know what to say.  Hmm..  maybe that's a good question to put on our job interview 
list for prospective new programmers.  Do you have an opinion on top posting vs 
bottom posting?  just to see how they answer.

Bottom posting makes sense if you're using papyrus scrolls.  Or are forced into 
a linear discussion format for some reason.  Email is a little more flexible 
than that.

Does it confuse you reading my messages like this?  Do you find yourself 
drifting to the bottom before the top makes any sense at all?   I'm guessing 
not.  Answer this, did you even look at or read your 'original message' below 
before comprehending my message up here?   Probably not, because you already 
know what was said and what I'm responding to.  Tell me I'm wrong.


Yes, you're wrong, I know you are talking about top posting, but to
which part of my reply does this refer? I came to know that when I was
at the end of your reply and I the part of the reply you were refering
to...



It's an exceedingly silly conversation and is probably on a list of 'holy wars' 
somewhere.   I just don't get why 'top posting' is so bad.  If it's all for the 
sake of 'logic' then how come it seems perfectly logical to me but is still 
somehow 'illogical' or 'breaks logical flow'?

Anyway..  I'm sure there'll be more silly debate later.

-TG

PS. Don't read below.  It break's logical flow.  You might sprain something.


It does break logical flow, but it was needed to understand what you
were quoting.

Tijnema


= = = Original message = = =

A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion.
Q: Why is top posting bad?

This explains everything ^^^



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Re: [PHP] Small LAMP install/distro