RE: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
-Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:05 AM To: a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk Cc: Boyd, Todd M.; PHP General list Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd For me it's MySQL all the way. My company is too cheap to pay for later versions of MS SQL Server, so the versions we have there are *very* limited in features (for example, no limit function!) MySQL also seems a lot faster for me too. I regularly deal with large databases (think millions of records) and MSSQL is a real bottleneck here, whereas MySQL seems fine (althogh, it is running on Linux, which frees up more resources for actually getting stuff done!) Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk It all depends on what you need. I know from your previous posts that you're not very well disposed to SQL Server, but I've used it quite a bit now for the last 8 years and haven't really had any problems with performance. I'll grant that it doesn't have the LIMIT clause (Is it part of the actual ANSI SQL spec, or is it something handy that MySQL added to their product?) The newer versions offer a row number function that can be used to provide the the same functionality, but I'll admit it is not nearly as simple as being able to say LIMIT 25, 50. While I like MySQL, it has its oddities as well. I've run into situations where I had to add ORDER BY clauses to UPDATE statements (I'm not sure that's really valid SQL either) because it updated the rows sequentially and validated a unique index after each row rather than after all the rows were processed. I wish it would support CHECK constraints. And as convenient as I've found the SET and ENUM datatypes in simple databases, I'm coming to the notion that they are not a good idea in most situations. And while the availability of different engines has benefits, it can also cause issues. Wait, wait, wait... I know SQL Server doesn't have LIMIT, but haven't you guys ever used TOP? As in... select top 10 * from some_table where some_column = 'some_value'; ?? I'm not sure about getting lower bounds (maybe there is a BOTTOM, but I'm too lazy right now)... but if you're just trying to limit the number of rows in your result with a cap, then TOP does the trick just fine. I've had to do a lot of searching to find ways to do stuff in SQL Server that were already natural for me in MySQL (as I learned on MySQL and develop independently with it), but I have yet to be completely taken aback by something that's missing in SQL Server. (I am a little miffed that you have to do a sub-query on information_schema in order to test for object existence, though.) Anyway, I don't see what all the anti-MSSQL sentiment is all about. I use it all the time (SQL Express, SQL Server 2000 and 2005 Professional) and I don't find myself wanting for something I could have done in MySQL but cannot do in MSSQL. SSIS packages are pretty sweet to work with, BTW, if you've ever needed to build DTS solutions. :D My 2c, // Todd
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Boyd, Todd M. tmbo...@ccis.edu wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:05 AM To: a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk Cc: Boyd, Todd M.; PHP General list Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd For me it's MySQL all the way. My company is too cheap to pay for later versions of MS SQL Server, so the versions we have there are *very* limited in features (for example, no limit function!) MySQL also seems a lot faster for me too. I regularly deal with large databases (think millions of records) and MSSQL is a real bottleneck here, whereas MySQL seems fine (althogh, it is running on Linux, which frees up more resources for actually getting stuff done!) Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk It all depends on what you need. I know from your previous posts that you're not very well disposed to SQL Server, but I've used it quite a bit now for the last 8 years and haven't really had any problems with performance. I'll grant that it doesn't have the LIMIT clause (Is it part of the actual ANSI SQL spec, or is it something handy that MySQL added to their product?) The newer versions offer a row number function that can be used to provide the the same functionality, but I'll admit it is not nearly as simple as being able to say LIMIT 25, 50. While I like MySQL, it has its oddities as well. I've run into situations where I had to add ORDER BY clauses to UPDATE statements (I'm not sure that's really valid SQL either) because it updated the rows sequentially and validated a unique index after each row rather than after all the rows were processed. I wish it would support CHECK constraints. And as convenient as I've found the SET and ENUM datatypes in simple databases, I'm coming to the notion that they are not a good idea in most situations. And while the availability of different engines has benefits, it can also cause issues. Wait, wait, wait... I know SQL Server doesn't have LIMIT, but haven't you guys ever used TOP? As in... select top 10 * from some_table where some_column = 'some_value'; ?? I'm not sure about getting lower bounds (maybe there is a BOTTOM, but I'm too lazy right now)... but if you're just trying to limit the number of rows in your result with a cap, then TOP does the trick just fine. Of course I've used it. I've also used SET ROWCOUNT, too. To limit the results to a fixed number of rows, they work just fine. But the TOP keyword by itself doesn't come near providing the capability to provide paged results that you can get using MySQL's LIMIT clause. I've seen a lot of workarounds posted but they all have limitations. I've had to do a lot of searching to find ways to do stuff in SQL Server that were already natural for me in MySQL (as I learned on MySQL and develop independently with it), but I have yet to be completely taken aback by something that's missing in SQL Server. (I am a little miffed that you have to do a sub-query on information_schema in order to test for object existence, though.) There are other ways, but that is the correct way since it's part of standard SQL and therefore not as likely to change or disappear in future versions. Anyway, I don't see what all the anti-MSSQL sentiment is all about. I use it all the time (SQL Express, SQL Server 2000 and 2005 Professional) and I don't find myself wanting for something I could have done in MySQL but cannot do in MSSQL. Neither have I. For that matter, depending on the project I prefer SQL Server because it doesn't ignore CHECK constraints. And as for speed, I have yet to have SQL Server be the bottleneck in an application that I've had to work on -- either MySQL or SQL Server. SSIS packages are pretty sweet to work
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
Wait, wait, wait... I know SQL Server doesn't have LIMIT, but haven't you guys ever used TOP? As in... select top 10 * from some_table where some_column = 'some_value'; FWIW you have to do a similar thing in oracle. select * from table where rownum = 5; -- get 5 rows. to use a limit offset it's back to the subquery. select * from (select * from table where rownum =100 ) where rownum = 80; -- get rows 80 - 100. I found the o'reilly book sql cookbook really handy for working with multiple db's - it outlines a lot of differences and how you do the same thing in each db. -- Postgresql php tutorials http://www.designmagick.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 09:30 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:05 AM To: a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk Cc: Boyd, Todd M.; PHP General list Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd For me it's MySQL all the way. My company is too cheap to pay for later versions of MS SQL Server, so the versions we have there are *very* limited in features (for example, no limit function!) MySQL also seems a lot faster for me too. I regularly deal with large databases (think millions of records) and MSSQL is a real bottleneck here, whereas MySQL seems fine (althogh, it is running on Linux, which frees up more resources for actually getting stuff done!) Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk It all depends on what you need. I know from your previous posts that you're not very well disposed to SQL Server, but I've used it quite a bit now for the last 8 years and haven't really had any problems with performance. I'll grant that it doesn't have the LIMIT clause (Is it part of the actual ANSI SQL spec, or is it something handy that MySQL added to their product?) The newer versions offer a row number function that can be used to provide the the same functionality, but I'll admit it is not nearly as simple as being able to say LIMIT 25, 50. While I like MySQL, it has its oddities as well. I've run into situations where I had to add ORDER BY clauses to UPDATE statements (I'm not sure that's really valid SQL either) because it updated the rows sequentially and validated a unique index after each row rather than after all the rows were processed. I wish it would support CHECK constraints. And as convenient as I've found the SET and ENUM datatypes in simple databases, I'm coming to the notion that they are not a good idea in most situations. And while the availability of different engines has benefits, it can also cause issues. Wait, wait, wait... I know SQL Server doesn't have LIMIT, but haven't you guys ever used TOP? As in... select top 10 * from some_table where some_column = 'some_value'; ?? I'm not sure about getting lower bounds (maybe there is a BOTTOM, but I'm too lazy right now)... but if you're just trying to limit the number of rows in your result with a cap, then TOP does the trick just fine. I've had to do a lot of searching to find ways to do stuff in SQL Server that were already natural for me in MySQL (as I learned on MySQL and develop independently with it), but I have yet to be completely taken aback by something that's missing in SQL Server. (I am a little miffed that you have to do a sub-query on information_schema in order to test for object existence, though.) Anyway, I don't see what all the anti-MSSQL sentiment is all about. I use it all the time (SQL Express, SQL Server 2000 and 2005 Professional) and I don't find myself wanting for something I could have done in MySQL but cannot do in MSSQL. SSIS packages are pretty sweet to work with, BTW, if you've ever needed to build DTS solutions. :D My 2c, // Todd There isn't a BOTTOM, the solution looks something like this: SELECT * FROM (SELECT TOP 10 * FROM (SELECT TOP 20 * FROM table WHERE clause ORDER BY col) AS temp ORDER BY col DESC) as temp2 ORDER BY col It's an awful mess, but was the only way I found to select results x to y in a reliable manner. Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
There isn't a BOTTOM, the solution looks something like this: SELECT * FROM (SELECT TOP 10 * FROM (SELECT TOP 20 * FROM table WHERE clause ORDER BY col) AS temp ORDER BY col DESC) as temp2 ORDER BY col It's an awful mess, but was the only way I found to select results x to y in a reliable manner. Does this work? select field from ( select row_number() over (order by field) as rn, field from table ) x where rn between 6 and 10; (what the o'reilly sql cookbook suggests will work). -- Postgresql php tutorials http://www.designmagick.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 09:30 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:05 AM To: a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk Cc: Boyd, Todd M.; PHP General list Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd For me it's MySQL all the way. My company is too cheap to pay for later versions of MS SQL Server, so the versions we have there are *very* limited in features (for example, no limit function!) MySQL also seems a lot faster for me too. I regularly deal with large databases (think millions of records) and MSSQL is a real bottleneck here, whereas MySQL seems fine (althogh, it is running on Linux, which frees up more resources for actually getting stuff done!) Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk It all depends on what you need. I know from your previous posts that you're not very well disposed to SQL Server, but I've used it quite a bit now for the last 8 years and haven't really had any problems with performance. I'll grant that it doesn't have the LIMIT clause (Is it part of the actual ANSI SQL spec, or is it something handy that MySQL added to their product?) The newer versions offer a row number function that can be used to provide the the same functionality, but I'll admit it is not nearly as simple as being able to say LIMIT 25, 50. While I like MySQL, it has its oddities as well. I've run into situations where I had to add ORDER BY clauses to UPDATE statements (I'm not sure that's really valid SQL either) because it updated the rows sequentially and validated a unique index after each row rather than after all the rows were processed. I wish it would support CHECK constraints. And as convenient as I've found the SET and ENUM datatypes in simple databases, I'm coming to the notion that they are not a good idea in most situations. And while the availability of different engines has benefits, it can also cause issues. Wait, wait, wait... I know SQL Server doesn't have LIMIT, but haven't you guys ever used TOP? As in... select top 10 * from some_table where some_column = 'some_value'; ?? I'm not sure about getting lower bounds (maybe there is a BOTTOM, but I'm too lazy right now)... but if you're just trying to limit the number of rows in your result with a cap, then TOP does the trick just fine. I've had to do a lot of searching to find ways to do stuff in SQL Server that were already natural for me in MySQL (as I learned on MySQL and develop independently with it), but I have yet to be completely taken aback by something that's missing in SQL Server. (I am a little miffed that you have to do a sub-query on information_schema in order to test for object existence, though.) Anyway, I don't see what all the anti-MSSQL sentiment is all about. I use it all the time (SQL Express, SQL Server 2000 and 2005 Professional) and I don't find myself wanting for something I could have done in MySQL but cannot do in MSSQL. SSIS packages are pretty sweet to work with, BTW, if you've ever needed to build DTS solutions. :D My 2c, // Todd There isn't a BOTTOM, the solution looks something like this: SELECT * FROM (SELECT TOP 10 * FROM (SELECT TOP 20 * FROM table WHERE clause ORDER BY col) AS temp ORDER BY col DESC) as temp2 ORDER BY col It's an awful mess, but was the only way I found to select results x to y in a reliable manner. Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Yep. That's one of the hacks I've seen that *almost* works. The flaw I've found is that if the complete result set is not evenly divisible by the page size, the last page repeats enough records from
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 01:04 -0500, Andrew Ballard wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Bastien Koert phps...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Shawn McKenzie nos...@mckenzies.netwrote: Stan Stadelman wrote: Hello All: I'm trying to see how Web Edition databases are being used in your company for PHP-driven web-apps. Our strategy team thought that free and community editions would be dominant, but we interviewed Zend Framework developers using Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and it looks like--surprise--that each vendors' market share is about the same as in the broad commercial market. We think this means that you--the PHP developer community--aren't actually using the lightweight Web/Express Edition for your corporate web- app deployment, and instead are building out on the licenses for databases your company is already running. Is the Express/Community/Web Edition important for you at work? Is it a critical sandboxing step for you? Do you run it live for internal applications? Answering these 10 multiple choice questions--should take about 90 seconds--will help us understand what databases you need in your professional life, and how to deliver them to you. Happy cooking, and thanks! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Jro0rkoIGJKuQNpfWZV_2bBQ_3d_3d What exactly are, Express or Web Edition databases? -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com Just another marketing tool to sell a limited toolset db to punters who like marketing hype -- Bastien I thought they were free. Limited, but free. (reduced functionality or limited number of connections compared to the commercial versions of the products) I've not heard of Web Edition, but I have heard of both SQL Server and Oracle Express. I haven't used them, but I guess the idea I have in mind is of products that are supposed to be just good enough to use in either embedded apps or else to entice developers into wanting the full version for server apps. I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd For me it's MySQL all the way. My company is too cheap to pay for later versions of MS SQL Server, so the versions we have there are *very* limited in features (for example, no limit function!) MySQL also seems a lot faster for me too. I regularly deal with large databases (think millions of records) and MSSQL is a real bottleneck here, whereas MySQL seems fine (althogh, it is running on Linux, which frees up more resources for actually getting stuff done!) Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk It all depends on what you need. I know from your previous posts that you're not very well disposed to SQL Server, but I've used it quite a bit now for the last 8 years and haven't really had any problems with performance. I'll grant that it doesn't have the LIMIT clause (Is it part of the actual ANSI SQL spec, or is it something handy that MySQL added to their product?) The newer versions offer a row number function that can be used to provide the the same functionality, but I'll admit it is not nearly as simple as being able to say LIMIT 25, 50. While I like MySQL, it has its oddities as well. I've run into situations where I had to add ORDER BY clauses to UPDATE statements (I'm not sure that's really valid SQL either) because it updated the rows sequentially and validated a unique index after each row rather than after all the rows were processed. I wish it would support CHECK constraints. And as convenient as I've found the SET and ENUM datatypes in simple databases, I'm coming to the notion that they are not a good idea in most situations. And while the availability of different engines
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 5:13 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 01:04 -0500, Andrew Ballard wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: I absolutely love enum datatypes; they allow you to use string values but internally stores them as numbers, and prevents the wrong data from being inserted. Much simpler than joining extra tables of values onto it. Oh, I know why programmers love them. I like them for a lot of the same reasons, but I'm enough of a DBA that I'm still not sure they are a very good idea in a SQL database. Granted, indexes on an ENUM column will be more useful than on SET columns, but what do you do when you need to add a value to the list? You have to have permission to modify the database, and you are limited to about 64 values. In some projects that's an acceptable constraint. I tend to like auxilliary tables better because I can easily add an admin interface to an app to allow users with sufficient permission to add their own values as needed without granting them access to muck around with the actual table structure, I'm NOT limited to 64 values, and indexes work even in 1:m (SET) cases in addition to 1:1 (ENUM) relationships. You can't add extra fields to an ENUM to track when a value was added to the list, whether it is no longer a valid value for new records (since it probably can't be deleted because of referential integrity), or any other information that might be relevant to the value. I know these aren't needed in every case, but I generally like to plan for extensibility if it doesn't require very much additional effort. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
Stan Stadelman wrote: Hello All: I'm trying to see how Web Edition databases are being used in your company for PHP-driven web-apps. Our strategy team thought that free and community editions would be dominant, but we interviewed Zend Framework developers using Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and it looks like--surprise--that each vendors' market share is about the same as in the broad commercial market. We think this means that you--the PHP developer community--aren't actually using the lightweight Web/Express Edition for your corporate web-app deployment, and instead are building out on the licenses for databases your company is already running. Is the Express/Community/Web Edition important for you at work? Is it a critical sandboxing step for you? Do you run it live for internal applications? Answering these 10 multiple choice questions--should take about 90 seconds--will help us understand what databases you need in your professional life, and how to deliver them to you. Happy cooking, and thanks! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Jro0rkoIGJKuQNpfWZV_2bBQ_3d_3d What exactly are, Express or Web Edition databases? -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Shawn McKenzie nos...@mckenzies.netwrote: Stan Stadelman wrote: Hello All: I'm trying to see how Web Edition databases are being used in your company for PHP-driven web-apps. Our strategy team thought that free and community editions would be dominant, but we interviewed Zend Framework developers using Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and it looks like--surprise--that each vendors' market share is about the same as in the broad commercial market. We think this means that you--the PHP developer community--aren't actually using the lightweight Web/Express Edition for your corporate web-app deployment, and instead are building out on the licenses for databases your company is already running. Is the Express/Community/Web Edition important for you at work? Is it a critical sandboxing step for you? Do you run it live for internal applications? Answering these 10 multiple choice questions--should take about 90 seconds--will help us understand what databases you need in your professional life, and how to deliver them to you. Happy cooking, and thanks! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Jro0rkoIGJKuQNpfWZV_2bBQ_3d_3d What exactly are, Express or Web Edition databases? -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Just another marketing tool to sell a limited toolset db to punters who like marketing hype -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Bastien Koert phps...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Shawn McKenzie nos...@mckenzies.netwrote: Stan Stadelman wrote: Hello All: I'm trying to see how Web Edition databases are being used in your company for PHP-driven web-apps. Our strategy team thought that free and community editions would be dominant, but we interviewed Zend Framework developers using Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and it looks like--surprise--that each vendors' market share is about the same as in the broad commercial market. We think this means that you--the PHP developer community--aren't actually using the lightweight Web/Express Edition for your corporate web-app deployment, and instead are building out on the licenses for databases your company is already running. Is the Express/Community/Web Edition important for you at work? Is it a critical sandboxing step for you? Do you run it live for internal applications? Answering these 10 multiple choice questions--should take about 90 seconds--will help us understand what databases you need in your professional life, and how to deliver them to you. Happy cooking, and thanks! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Jro0rkoIGJKuQNpfWZV_2bBQ_3d_3d What exactly are, Express or Web Edition databases? -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com Just another marketing tool to sell a limited toolset db to punters who like marketing hype -- Bastien I thought they were free. Limited, but free. (reduced functionality or limited number of connections compared to the commercial versions of the products) I've not heard of Web Edition, but I have heard of both SQL Server and Oracle Express. I haven't used them, but I guess the idea I have in mind is of products that are supposed to be just good enough to use in either embedded apps or else to entice developers into wanting the full version for server apps. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
-Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Bastien Koert phps...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Shawn McKenzie nos...@mckenzies.netwrote: Stan Stadelman wrote: Hello All: I'm trying to see how Web Edition databases are being used in your company for PHP-driven web-apps. Our strategy team thought that free and community editions would be dominant, but we interviewed Zend Framework developers using Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and it looks like--surprise--that each vendors' market share is about the same as in the broad commercial market. We think this means that you--the PHP developer community--aren't actually using the lightweight Web/Express Edition for your corporate web- app deployment, and instead are building out on the licenses for databases your company is already running. Is the Express/Community/Web Edition important for you at work? Is it a critical sandboxing step for you? Do you run it live for internal applications? Answering these 10 multiple choice questions--should take about 90 seconds--will help us understand what databases you need in your professional life, and how to deliver them to you. Happy cooking, and thanks! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Jro0rkoIGJKuQNpfWZV_2bBQ_3d_3d What exactly are, Express or Web Edition databases? -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com Just another marketing tool to sell a limited toolset db to punters who like marketing hype -- Bastien I thought they were free. Limited, but free. (reduced functionality or limited number of connections compared to the commercial versions of the products) I've not heard of Web Edition, but I have heard of both SQL Server and Oracle Express. I haven't used them, but I guess the idea I have in mind is of products that are supposed to be just good enough to use in either embedded apps or else to entice developers into wanting the full version for server apps. I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd
RE: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Bastien Koert phps...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Shawn McKenzie nos...@mckenzies.netwrote: Stan Stadelman wrote: Hello All: I'm trying to see how Web Edition databases are being used in your company for PHP-driven web-apps. Our strategy team thought that free and community editions would be dominant, but we interviewed Zend Framework developers using Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and it looks like--surprise--that each vendors' market share is about the same as in the broad commercial market. We think this means that you--the PHP developer community--aren't actually using the lightweight Web/Express Edition for your corporate web- app deployment, and instead are building out on the licenses for databases your company is already running. Is the Express/Community/Web Edition important for you at work? Is it a critical sandboxing step for you? Do you run it live for internal applications? Answering these 10 multiple choice questions--should take about 90 seconds--will help us understand what databases you need in your professional life, and how to deliver them to you. Happy cooking, and thanks! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Jro0rkoIGJKuQNpfWZV_2bBQ_3d_3d What exactly are, Express or Web Edition databases? -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com Just another marketing tool to sell a limited toolset db to punters who like marketing hype -- Bastien I thought they were free. Limited, but free. (reduced functionality or limited number of connections compared to the commercial versions of the products) I've not heard of Web Edition, but I have heard of both SQL Server and Oracle Express. I haven't used them, but I guess the idea I have in mind is of products that are supposed to be just good enough to use in either embedded apps or else to entice developers into wanting the full version for server apps. I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd For me it's MySQL all the way. My company is too cheap to pay for later versions of MS SQL Server, so the versions we have there are *very* limited in features (for example, no limit function!) MySQL also seems a lot faster for me too. I regularly deal with large databases (think millions of records) and MSSQL is a real bottleneck here, whereas MySQL seems fine (althogh, it is running on Linux, which frees up more resources for actually getting stuff done!) Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
Not sure he's from a company. His email address is in the berkeley.edudomain. I guess there's a chance he's involved in Berkeley DB, although I believe this is now owned by Oracle? I'd be curious to know if any Berkeley people are still involved in the development of the engine. M is for Murray http://www.voodoologic.org On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations!
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
Murray wrote: Not sure he's from a company. His email address is in the berkeley.edudomain. I guess there's a chance he's involved in Berkeley DB, although I believe this is now owned by Oracle? I'd be curious to know if any Berkeley people are still involved in the development of the engine. M is for Murray http://www.voodoologic.org On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! I didn't bother with the questionnaire. I personally prefer to use completely open source solutions whenever possible, it reduces deployment licensing costs and gives you options when the company producing the product decides to take the product in a direction you don't want to go. I suspect therefore that I am not the target audience for the questionnaire. I think it has been some time since Berkeley has been involved with BerkeleyDB - Sleepycat Software was located in Berkeley but was not Berkeley. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in--
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Ballard [mailto:aball...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:26 PM To: Bastien Koert Cc: Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: How important is your Express or Web Edition database? Please weigh in-- On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Bastien Koert phps...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Shawn McKenzie nos...@mckenzies.netwrote: Stan Stadelman wrote: Hello All: I'm trying to see how Web Edition databases are being used in your company for PHP-driven web-apps. Our strategy team thought that free and community editions would be dominant, but we interviewed Zend Framework developers using Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and it looks like--surprise--that each vendors' market share is about the same as in the broad commercial market. We think this means that you--the PHP developer community--aren't actually using the lightweight Web/Express Edition for your corporate web- app deployment, and instead are building out on the licenses for databases your company is already running. Is the Express/Community/Web Edition important for you at work? Is it a critical sandboxing step for you? Do you run it live for internal applications? Answering these 10 multiple choice questions--should take about 90 seconds--will help us understand what databases you need in your professional life, and how to deliver them to you. Happy cooking, and thanks! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Jro0rkoIGJKuQNpfWZV_2bBQ_3d_3d What exactly are, Express or Web Edition databases? -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com Just another marketing tool to sell a limited toolset db to punters who like marketing hype -- Bastien I thought they were free. Limited, but free. (reduced functionality or limited number of connections compared to the commercial versions of the products) I've not heard of Web Edition, but I have heard of both SQL Server and Oracle Express. I haven't used them, but I guess the idea I have in mind is of products that are supposed to be just good enough to use in either embedded apps or else to entice developers into wanting the full version for server apps. I use SQLExpress (SQL Server Express) all the time at work for prototyping and such... although, I have to say--if my company hadn't installed it on my machine to begin with, and they weren't running SQL Server 2005 on the production servers, I would rather just use a private MySQL installation for prototyping and then push to a MySQL production server. Alas... // Todd For me it's MySQL all the way. My company is too cheap to pay for later versions of MS SQL Server, so the versions we have there are *very* limited in features (for example, no limit function!) MySQL also seems a lot faster for me too. I regularly deal with large databases (think millions of records) and MSSQL is a real bottleneck here, whereas MySQL seems fine (althogh, it is running on Linux, which frees up more resources for actually getting stuff done!) Oh, funny thing. I filled in the questionnaire above, and when it got to the final 'thanks' page, I clicked the button, and it bombed out to a completely blank page. Doesn't bode too well for a company attempting to sell a product for use in enterprise situations! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk It all depends on what you need. I know from your previous posts that you're not very well disposed to SQL Server, but I've used it quite a bit now for the last 8 years and haven't really had any problems with performance. I'll grant that it doesn't have the LIMIT clause (Is it part of the actual ANSI SQL spec, or is it something handy that MySQL added to their product?) The newer versions offer a row number function that can be used to provide the the same functionality, but I'll admit it is not nearly as simple as being able to say LIMIT 25, 50. While I like MySQL, it has its oddities as well. I've run into situations where I had to add ORDER BY clauses to UPDATE statements (I'm not sure that's really valid SQL either) because it updated the rows sequentially and validated a unique index after each row rather than after all the rows were processed. I wish it would support CHECK constraints. And as convenient as I've found the SET and ENUM datatypes in simple databases, I'm coming to the notion that they are not a good idea in most situations. And while the availability of different engines has benefits, it can also cause issues. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
