Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs Java reliability
Geoff Caplan wrote: Michael the Why PHP on zend.com is a great place to go for this sort of stuff... Honestly, it doesn't seem all that professional a resource paper... I would tend to agree - not something you could show to a hard-headed corporate purchasing committee with any confidence. I believe Java *can* be pretty stable and robust, but at a cost which far exceeds PHP's. This is something that seemed to be missing from that article - a cost/benefit analysis compared to other platforms . Yeah, Java/ASP/etc can have enormous benefits over PHP in some situations, but the price tag is often beyond what people initially imagine. I suspect that this is the vital point - for the right type of project PHP will be quicker to develop and cheaper to deploy. I think the Zend case would be more credible if they defined the niche for PHP more clearly - which is surely the small to mid-sized project. My own project is aimed at making fully customised e-commerce affordable for the smaller organisation, and this seems an ideal field for PHP. For end-to-end enterprise computing, PHP would need better namespaces, a proper object model, more rigorous error handling, a thriving market in high-quality components (and/or a robust interface to Java) and a fully featured IDE. Zend 2 should lay the foundations for this, but by then Java will be so far ahead that PHP may never catch up. But does this matter? The great majority of organisations and projects are small, and for them PHP is ideal. If I were Zend, I would be focusing on products and pricing that appeals to this market, but they rather give the impression that they are aiming for the enterprise... Geoff Caplan I aggree. It comes down to what you are doing. But I dont think java is needed unless you are doing one damn big e-com site. Php can handle a fair bit. And to use java costs you a hell of a lot more. First thing to work out is if you need to use java. To many places jump in, thinking yeah we need a $50,000 server and $100,000 worth of dev software, when they would of done fine with a $10,000 server and $0 software. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs Java reliability
Michael the Why PHP on zend.com is a great place to go for this sort of stuff... Honestly, it doesn't seem all that professional a resource paper... I would tend to agree - not something you could show to a hard-headed corporate purchasing committee with any confidence. I believe Java *can* be pretty stable and robust, but at a cost which far exceeds PHP's. This is something that seemed to be missing from that article - a cost/benefit analysis compared to other platforms . Yeah, Java/ASP/etc can have enormous benefits over PHP in some situations, but the price tag is often beyond what people initially imagine. I suspect that this is the vital point - for the right type of project PHP will be quicker to develop and cheaper to deploy. I think the Zend case would be more credible if they defined the niche for PHP more clearly - which is surely the small to mid-sized project. My own project is aimed at making fully customised e-commerce affordable for the smaller organisation, and this seems an ideal field for PHP. For end-to-end enterprise computing, PHP would need better namespaces, a proper object model, more rigorous error handling, a thriving market in high-quality components (and/or a robust interface to Java) and a fully featured IDE. Zend 2 should lay the foundations for this, but by then Java will be so far ahead that PHP may never catch up. But does this matter? The great majority of organisations and projects are small, and for them PHP is ideal. If I were Zend, I would be focusing on products and pricing that appeals to this market, but they rather give the impression that they are aiming for the enterprise... Geoff Caplan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] Re: PHP vs Java reliability
http://www.zend.com/zend/art/php-over-java.php the Why PHP on zend.com is a great place to go for this sort of stuff... On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Geoff Caplan wrote: Hi folks Just putting together a brochure for a product authored in PHP, and making the case for LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP) as a platform, in a market where most competitors are Java based. I recently spoke to a very experienced sysadmin at an ISP who said they always recommend LAMP over Java because even after extensive tuning they had never got their Java servelet/bean platform as reliable as their PHP and Perl setups on both shared and dedicated servers. Has anyone else on the list got experience of this? Is PHP notably more reliable than Java in production situations? Geoff Caplan Advantae Ltd -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] Re: PHP vs Java reliability
Philip Hallstrom wrote: http://www.zend.com/zend/art/php-over-java.php the Why PHP on zend.com is a great place to go for this sort of stuff... Honestly, it doesn't seem all that professional a resource paper for some reason. It's not technical enough, primarily, and I don't think it would help sway anyone's opinion (at least anyone in charge of making decisions on how to spend money). PHP works with Java - anyone who's tried to do this will attest it's shaky at best - ISAPI PHP works better, and that's not saying much at this point. I don't think there are any large (or even mid) sized projects using PHP/Java together in production The eweek article is pretty dated, and even though PHP is fastest, it still gets low marks. Argh... I wouldn't want that to be the ONLY piece a decision maker sees. The IT manager's piece isn't too bad, but is a bit overly simplistic, if it's geared at IT managers, imo (but the editors may have chopped it, who knows?). And Tobias has a pretty vested interest in PHP (course, anyone who promotes it probably does anyway, so that's not that big a detriment). I believe Java *can* be pretty stable and robust, but at a cost which far exceeds PHP's. This is something that seemed to be missing from that article - a cost/benefit analysis compared to other platforms. Geoff, if your clients are interested in total programming for the enterprise, you may have an uphill battle against Java (whether or not it's better is beside the point). Focus on the cost/benefit, not JUST the benefits. Yeah, Java/ASP/etc can have enormous benefits over PHP in some situations, but the price tag is often beyond what people initially imagine. Good luck. Michael Kimsal http://www.tapinternet.com/php PHP training 1-734-480-9961 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
