Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
Quoting Angelo Zanetti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please let us know what the outcome is!! A *huge* THANK YOU to everyone who helped me with this (yes, even those who recommended Cold Fusion)! For those interested, our organization has decided (much to my surprise) to go with PHP running on Linux. Thanks again to everyone. Rick -- Rick Emery When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return -- Leonardo Da Vinci -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 21:15, Rick Emery wrote: Quoting Angelo Zanetti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please let us know what the outcome is!! A *huge* THANK YOU to everyone who helped me with this (yes, even those who recommended Cold Fusion)! For those interested, our organization has decided (much to my surprise) to go with PHP running on Linux. Woot! Management with half a brain :) Gratz! Cheers, Rob. -- .. | InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com | :: | An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting | | a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services | | such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn | | also provides an extremely flexible architecture for | | creating re-usable components quickly and easily. | `' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
snip.. As long as we are doing stats; /snip For an internal app our source code alone is 2MB zipped, using SQL Server, over 30 databases, about 1000 stored procedures, all tied together with PHP... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
Rick Emery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quoting Rick Emery [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My employer has (finally) decided to take full advantage of our intranet, and wants to move from client-server applications to web-based applications. [snipped] Any input would be greatly appreciated. Opinions are welcome (especially from programmers with experience in both), but I have to sell it to management (I'm already on the PHP side), so links to data or articles comparing the two are best. Ugh, we're *never* going to make a decision. My boss just sent me this email: [snipped] Anybody care to provide words of wisdom to me before I meet with her? I hate doing this, as I'm sure everybody has better things to do, but I *really* want to sell PHP. Background Info I've been programming since around 1974. I've been using PHP for the past 5 (or so) years. I've always used PHP in conjunction with a MySQL database. I've used PHP/MySQL for two public websites, that are still running nicely today. /Background Info I'm currently using PHP/MySQL for an internal-use-only database. Some of the statistics of this internal-website are as follows: The actual PHP source code is over 668KB in size. There are 50 tables in the database, using over 4MB of disk space. The largest table has over 20,000 records in it. In the past week, MySQL has had the following stats: 471MB of traffic 500,000 queries This internal-website is used by our customer service center, as well as our Sales team. It is easy to maintain or upgrade. DanB PS: The application we sell is written in C++. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
[snip] ...tons of good stuff... [/snip] As long as we are doing stats; tblClass10 187,607,026 MyISAM 54.4 GB tblClass11 293,357,128 MyISAM 136.0 GB 20 table(s) Sum 500,681,774 --202.4 GB This is fun, on a BSD box, w/dual Xeon processors...ALL report handling and processing of records in PHP and you are reading correctlyhalf a billion records measuring 203 Gigs with anywhere from 1.2 to 1.9 million records added per night. There is more where this came from. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
On Tue, June 28, 2005 8:17 pm, Rick Emery said: Quoting Anton Kovalenko [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As to ColdFusion, It seems to me that this technology is dead already. What makes you say this? I had never heard anything like this, but it would certainly be powerful ammunition to present to my bosses. Perhaps some sort of web market penetration analysis... I just searched through Netcraft and whatsit that the PHP site references from http://php.net/usage.php Neither seemed to mention ColdFusion. There are, however, presumably people out there with some kind of opinion backed with some kind of statistical analysis, inherently flawed to some unknowable degree, that may relate to this. YMMV -- Like Music? http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
Richard Lynch wrote: Quoting Anton Kovalenko [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As to ColdFusion, It seems to me that this technology is dead already. What makes you say this? I had never heard anything like this, but it would certainly be powerful ammunition to present to my bosses. Perhaps some sort of web market penetration analysis... Hi all! Unfortunatelly, I cant say that my thoughts of this kind were inspired by some sort of web market analysis. I do work as a web development team manager, act as an webprojects architect and also I'm realy very interested in modern development technologies. So, I do hear a lot of Python, Java, PHP which is becoming more and more serious development tool for both well-educated and experienced programmers and school-boys who just want to create their own guestbook/webchat. And for a couple of last years I haven't heard of ColdFusion much. I have some sort of example here. ozon.ru -- the largest Russian online bookstore (it's not a bookstore now -- it's a supermarket like amazon.com) was the first Russian e-commerse project, which looked seriously in 1997. It was created using ColdFusion. But several months ago (maybe year and a half -- don't remember) it was recreated with MS ASP. I do have some dozens of freinds who work as web-developers. The use Java, ASP.Net, PHP. I know none, who uses ColdFusion in his work, though ColdFusion is a relatevly old technology. So, that's my ugly point -) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re[2]: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
Hello Anton, Thursday, June 30, 2005, 10:05:45 AM, you wrote: AK I do have some dozens of freinds who work as web-developers. The AK use Java, ASP.Net, PHP. I know none, who uses ColdFusion in his AK work, though ColdFusion is a relatevly old technology. So, that's AK my ugly point -) It's a perfectly good point. I don't know a single CF developer either, not any more. The last few I did know migrated to Python some years ago. I guess that's the downside of locked-in proprietary languages (which could be said for ASP, except Macromedia don't really attract the same level of developers as Microsoft do). Personally for me CF has the *perception* of being a very 1990s technology (regardless if it is or not) Best regards, Richard Davey -- http://www.launchcode.co.uk - PHP Development Services I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. - Isaac Asimov -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
As for statistics, there are so many large intranet sites in use that never see the light of day using CF, PHP, ASP.NET that numbers would never be very acurate. If it interests any of you, you could check out www.forta.com/blog/ and search for his listings of major corporate entities using currently using CF. I'm not pointing this out to say that there are more major CF sites than PHP, that is not my point... my point is that saying As to ColdFusion, It seems to me that this technology is dead already is probably coming from someone who wouldn't know. A CF (only) developer wouldn't know the PHP usage and community as well as the PHP developer and vice versa. We are more familiar with what we use. Common sense. And of course, In reading so many this VS that posts, I would say people are biased to their own preferrence, quite naturally PHP and CF have their own pros and cons. The only way to truely evaluate them is to use them both. That's my 2 cents. Yves On 6/30/05, Richard Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, June 28, 2005 8:17 pm, Rick Emery said: Quoting Anton Kovalenko [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As to ColdFusion, It seems to me that this technology is dead already. What makes you say this? I had never heard anything like this, but it would certainly be powerful ammunition to present to my bosses. Perhaps some sort of web market penetration analysis... I just searched through Netcraft and whatsit that the PHP site references from http://php.net/usage.php Neither seemed to mention ColdFusion. There are, however, presumably people out there with some kind of opinion backed with some kind of statistical analysis, inherently flawed to some unknowable degree, that may relate to this. YMMV -- Like Music? http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Yves Arsenault This year, or this month, or, more likely, this very day, we have failed to practise ourselves the kind of behaviour we expect from other people. C.S. Lewis -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
Quoting Ke'tszeri Csaba [EMAIL PROTECTED]: About zend: sorry to say that here, but the less tools you use, the more freedom you have. Give me ssh access to any server running my php code and I can inspect it very well, may fix it in one shot :)). From anywhere. For what it's worth, I agree. I work with php at home and run it on a server with no graphical interface installed. For all of my work there, I ssh to the server and use vi to edit the files. At the office, we plan to use Zend Studio (it provides some functionality we like) and Zend Platform (for monitoring the server), but we will definitely ensure that any apps would run on a server with just php (to avoid lock-in). More tecnically, like we were programmers: php offers several of its functions as a wrapping of low level system routines and native drivers. I can hardly imagine any app design to be more effective than this. If you are worried about code parsing, php accelerator may be just enough. ;) Thanks for your input! Rick -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
Quoting Anton Kovalenko [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As to ColdFusion, It seems to me that this technology is dead already. What makes you say this? I had never heard anything like this, but it would certainly be powerful ammunition to present to my bosses. Thanks, Rick -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
PHP is open source. It's highly supported by lots of developers. It's free. There are many different libraries such as PEAR, for instance. There many free frameworks for creating convinient modular and easyly managebale applications both web and command line. I can name mojavi.org as a brilliant MVC pattern implementation for PHP5, propel (propel.phpdb.org) and metastorage (http://www.meta-language.net/metastorage.html) as OOtoR transformation frameworks. As to ColdFusion, It seems to me that this technology is dead already. Rick Emery wrote: My employer has (finally) decided to take full advantage of our intranet, and wants to move from client-server applications to web-based applications. To that end, we're trying to determine the best platform for our applications. We're a Microsoft shop, with Microsoft SQL Server 2000 for all of our databases (that won't change any time soon, if ever). Due to past experience that I won't get into, we (the Development group) have all agreed that ASP.Net is out (at least for the short term). We had the opportunity to visit a local enterprise that has deployed ColdFusion, and they couldn't stop singing its praises. I'm partial to PHP, even after sampling Coldfusion, so what I would like is some ammunition that I can take into a meeting to sell management on PHP instead of ColdFusion. I've already been harping on the difference in cost, so I'm looking for other points to go with. Besides, we'll probably invest in Zend products if we choose PHP, and Macromedia has government rates available; I don't have any numbers (yet), but the cost difference may not be that great in the end. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Opinions are welcome (especially from programmers with experience in both), but I have to sell it to management (I'm already on the PHP side), so links to data or articles comparing the two are best. Thanks in advance, Rick -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
as well as a great templating engine: smarty (there are others as well) Please let us know what the outcome is!! thanks Angelo Anton Kovalenko wrote: PHP is open source. It's highly supported by lots of developers. It's free. There are many different libraries such as PEAR, for instance. There many free frameworks for creating convinient modular and easyly managebale applications both web and command line. I can name mojavi.org as a brilliant MVC pattern implementation for PHP5, propel (propel.phpdb.org) and metastorage (http://www.meta-language.net/metastorage.html) as OOtoR transformation frameworks. As to ColdFusion, It seems to me that this technology is dead already. Rick Emery wrote: My employer has (finally) decided to take full advantage of our intranet, and wants to move from client-server applications to web-based applications. To that end, we're trying to determine the best platform for our applications. We're a Microsoft shop, with Microsoft SQL Server 2000 for all of our databases (that won't change any time soon, if ever). Due to past experience that I won't get into, we (the Development group) have all agreed that ASP.Net is out (at least for the short term). We had the opportunity to visit a local enterprise that has deployed ColdFusion, and they couldn't stop singing its praises. I'm partial to PHP, even after sampling Coldfusion, so what I would like is some ammunition that I can take into a meeting to sell management on PHP instead of ColdFusion. I've already been harping on the difference in cost, so I'm looking for other points to go with. Besides, we'll probably invest in Zend products if we choose PHP, and Macromedia has government rates available; I don't have any numbers (yet), but the cost difference may not be that great in the end. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Opinions are welcome (especially from programmers with experience in both), but I have to sell it to management (I'm already on the PHP side), so links to data or articles comparing the two are best. Thanks in advance, Rick -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP vs. ColdFusion
Hello, I can't give out exact numbers, but have worked for a portal in 2001 with around 100K page impressions per day. First they stared with cf, three massive, Intel based HP web servers and one SUN for the Oracle. The system hardly managed this load, so they fired the firm wrote the the CF, and rewritten all stuff in php4 to give it a try. After that, two servers were switched off, one with linux and php managed the load very well, so I assume that you may have to consider number of visitors per day, and the hardware requirements too. About zend: sorry to say that here, but the less tools you use, the more freedom you have. Give me ssh access to any server running my php code and I can inspect it very well, may fix it in one shot :)). From anywhere. More tecnically, like we were programmers: php offers several of its functions as a wrapping of low level system routines and native drivers. I can hardly imagine any app design to be more effective than this. If you are worried about code parsing, php accelerator may be just enough. ;) Br, Csaba Ketszeri -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
