Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
Just a couple of thoughts here: 1. Now() outputs the date, so ASP does have that. 2. I hate the concept of saying that one of these products is "superior" to the other. Why not just lay out the technical points of both, and let the reader decide. I'm okay with somebody choosing ASP (or PHP) as long as they are basing it on the facts and there particular needs; what I don't like are advocates (read a**holes) turning this into a heated debate devoid of any facts or basis in reality. BTW, I use both and have used both. I'm more concerned with results, not egos. John Meyer Q: What do you do if your linux server crashes. A: First, find a candle...*G* > Original Message Follows > From: Mike Eheler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP > Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 10:57:27 -0800 > > Well being a former ASP programmer and a current PHP programmer I think > I can help you there. > > The key point is ease of use. PHP provides far more functionality than > ASP (try finding a function to print out the date in ASP.. yeah, I > thought so), while at the same time giving you access to low-level areas > of the language so that you can really make it do whatever you want. > > Oh yeah, and it's OpenSource. Make it do what you want, and if that > doesn't suit your fancy, then change it :) > > ASP costs -- the server (be it Windows or Unix-based) is gonna cost > ya, any extensions to do more advanced things (such as creating images > on the fly) is gonna cost ya.. cost cost cost. > > With ASP I was constantly running into roadblocks because of the way it > works. Let's take form submission.. or beyond that.. uploading FILES. > You can do it the long, hard way (write your own MIME handler and parse > the incoming binary data), or the easy way (shell out $$$ to pay for a > "professional" activex com object to do the job for you). > > And if that wasn't enough. ASP is just plain slower. > > Well, that's my 2 cents. There's plenty of more points that could be > said, but I think this should give you some good arguments to start with. > > Mike > > Jake wrote: > > >Hello there, I need some help. > > > >I have to do a technical report(about 2200 words) comparing PHP to ASP. I > >have already decided to make PHP the winner becasue it is superior. But I > >am kinda stumped on what areas to compare the two. > > > >If you could help me out in suggesting some possible areas of comparison. > >Keeping in mind that I need about the same amount of info on both PHP and > >ASP. Also if you could point me in the right direction by including some > >web links that deal with the topic. > > > >Thank You, > >Jake > > > > > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
> I actually was going to mention it, because I know it's being worked on > - last I read it was 'beta' or something similar, and only supported a > handful. My understanding was that even it was still a wrapper system, > but it's definitely a welcome (huge) step in the right direction, in our > estimation here. :) Every abstraction layer is by definition a wrapper. I am sure everyone by now has heard my opinion on db abstraction layers though. As far as I am concerned they are pointless. It is the wrong place to do things. The right way to do database abstraction is at the functional layer. ie. write a function that implements a certain database action your application needs. get_user_record(), for example. Then write this function for each database your application needs to support. Anything short of this and you end up with a nearly useless system that is only capable of using generic or lowest-common-denominator SQL statements. For really simple applications that is ok, I guess, but for anything substantial you are going to have to use DB-specific SQL to take advantage of each database properly. See Oracle's DECODE() statement for a blatant example of this. -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: >>Databases - although PHP 'supports' many databases natively, the support >>is in the form of 3rd party libraries with PHP wrapper functions. >>Nothing inherently wrong with that, but the current method dictates that >>to use oracle you use oci_ functions, for mysql you use mysql_ >>functions, etc., giving rise to the 'database portability' issue. Yes, >>there are db abstraction classes available in PHP, but nothing is native >>to the language, and that extra layer slows things down (just like ODBC >>can slow things down in the Windows world). Don't go throwing 'native >>db' support around too much without backing it up with solid argument. >> > > Michael, see ext/dbx - the abstraction doesn't get any more native than > that. > I actually was going to mention it, because I know it's being worked on - last I read it was 'beta' or something similar, and only supported a handful. My understanding was that even it was still a wrapper system, but it's definitely a welcome (huge) step in the right direction, in our estimation here. :) The site says 'experimetal' - any ideas as to what might change in the future to cause backwards compatibility problems? Or is it too early to tell yet? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
> Databases - although PHP 'supports' many databases natively, the support > is in the form of 3rd party libraries with PHP wrapper functions. > Nothing inherently wrong with that, but the current method dictates that > to use oracle you use oci_ functions, for mysql you use mysql_ > functions, etc., giving rise to the 'database portability' issue. Yes, > there are db abstraction classes available in PHP, but nothing is native > to the language, and that extra layer slows things down (just like ODBC > can slow things down in the Windows world). Don't go throwing 'native > db' support around too much without backing it up with solid argument. Michael, see ext/dbx - the abstraction doesn't get any more native than that. -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
ASP function to print out the date: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/script56/html/vsfctformatdatetime.asp --- START SAMPLE CODE --- Function GetCurrentDate ' FormatDateTime formats Date in long date. GetCurrentDate = FormatDateTime(Date, 1) End Function --- END SAMPLE CODE --- Original Message Follows From: Mike Eheler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 10:57:27 -0800 Well being a former ASP programmer and a current PHP programmer I think I can help you there. The key point is ease of use. PHP provides far more functionality than ASP (try finding a function to print out the date in ASP.. yeah, I thought so), while at the same time giving you access to low-level areas of the language so that you can really make it do whatever you want. Oh yeah, and it's OpenSource. Make it do what you want, and if that doesn't suit your fancy, then change it :) ASP costs -- the server (be it Windows or Unix-based) is gonna cost ya, any extensions to do more advanced things (such as creating images on the fly) is gonna cost ya.. cost cost cost. With ASP I was constantly running into roadblocks because of the way it works. Let's take form submission.. or beyond that.. uploading FILES. You can do it the long, hard way (write your own MIME handler and parse the incoming binary data), or the easy way (shell out $$$ to pay for a "professional" activex com object to do the job for you). And if that wasn't enough. ASP is just plain slower. Well, that's my 2 cents. There's plenty of more points that could be said, but I think this should give you some good arguments to start with. Mike Jake wrote: >Hello there, I need some help. > >I have to do a technical report(about 2200 words) comparing PHP to ASP. I >have already decided to make PHP the winner becasue it is superior. But I >am kinda stumped on what areas to compare the two. > >If you could help me out in suggesting some possible areas of comparison. >Keeping in mind that I need about the same amount of info on both PHP and >ASP. Also if you could point me in the right direction by including some >web links that deal with the topic. > >Thank You, >Jake > > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
You should probably consider ASP.NET. Visual Studio .NET is out in early Feb and ASP.NET makes an enormous leap in functionality. It should almost be considered a new web development environment. It allows development in any CLR compliant language (straight VB.NET, C#, managed C++ etc..) It cleanly separates UI and program logic Has better OO implementation than PHP Has easier web design (web forms) Has embedded state managment (run at server tags for form fields) Allows for easily extending and creating .NET complient form controls For me the biggest attraction is the ability to use and mix and match any CLR compliant language. You can now develop a windows client app and as long as you cleanly separate the business layer from the UI layer you can re-use the same business layer in your web apps. Indeed MS are currently working on the Universal Canvas, which 'may' lead to re-usable windows/web UIs. Big downside? Has to run on MS platform. > -Original Message- > From: Stephen Abshire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 09 January 2002 17:27 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP > > > I agree about not starting a war between PHP and ASP. We already have one > going on that is out of hand between Linux and Windows :-) > > I do think it is up to how you view things. When I think of support being > "native" I think of that meaning that something can perform a task using > only its own internal capabilities. So in the case of PHP and say Oracle > this would mean that PHP could connect to and utilize data in an Oracle > database using only functionality that is built into PHP itself. > But if you > look at http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.oci8.php you will find that you > need to install the Oracle 8 Client Libraries if you want to use > the Oracle > 8 PHP functions. So is this really "native" support? You can make > your own > decision on that one :-) > > I am a professional web application developer and the consulting > firm I work > for leans heavily toward the Microsoft side so I am very familiar > with ASP. > I also do PHP on the side and have had one assignment doing PHP on my job. > > * My personal preference is PHP because the language is so elegant and I > like the cross-platorm aspect of PHP as well. > > * PHP seems to be supported MUCH better than ASP. > > * The PHP development cycle is more current. > > * Possibly the biggest thing I like about PHP over ASP is dynamic > includes. > Those developers out there know what I mean about this one. > Including a file > dynamically say from a database field or some other approach. > Believe it or > not this really opens up a lot of doors in your development. > > Just my personal opinions and you will find probably everyone on > this list > will have their own. But that is fine too. It my be best to look at the > problem to be solved then choose the platform and language that will best > solve it. > > > Original Message Follows > From: Philip Hallstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Robert Klinkenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:51:40 -0800 (PST) > > I don't want to start a war, but last time I looked PHP had native support > for every database I'd ever heard of including Oracle, SQLServer, etc... > > Just don't want the guy doing the report that php is database limited... > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Robert Klinkenberg wrote: > > > Well, I personally prefer PHP over ASP because better support from > > webhosting companies, but ASP has some good points. > > This is especially the case if you can setup the complete hosting > > environment yourself and have some money to spend. > > > > First of all databases. PHP has support for a limited but interesting > list > > of databases, especially the support for mysql and postgres is > handy for > a > > webserver. On the other hand, ASP has good support for most bussiness > > servers (ORACLE MS SQL Server,) with OLE-DB and a lot more > databases > > with ODBC. > > > > The development tools. Definately a win for ASP (with vb.net > C# and C++ > you > > have a complete IDE and with Dreamweaver Ultradev you can pretty much > point > > and click. SO you can choose whatever tool you like. > > PHP has very limited IDE's. > > > > Price. ASP solutions are mostly build with Windows 2000 Server > and MS SQL > > Server or Oracle and an expensive IDE. So it's pretty > expensive to build. > > PHP is mostly used with Linux, Apache and MySQL and is a lot > cheaper (you > > only need to buy the har
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
I agree about not starting a war between PHP and ASP. We already have one going on that is out of hand between Linux and Windows :-) I do think it is up to how you view things. When I think of support being "native" I think of that meaning that something can perform a task using only its own internal capabilities. So in the case of PHP and say Oracle this would mean that PHP could connect to and utilize data in an Oracle database using only functionality that is built into PHP itself. But if you look at http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.oci8.php you will find that you need to install the Oracle 8 Client Libraries if you want to use the Oracle 8 PHP functions. So is this really "native" support? You can make your own decision on that one :-) I am a professional web application developer and the consulting firm I work for leans heavily toward the Microsoft side so I am very familiar with ASP. I also do PHP on the side and have had one assignment doing PHP on my job. * My personal preference is PHP because the language is so elegant and I like the cross-platorm aspect of PHP as well. * PHP seems to be supported MUCH better than ASP. * The PHP development cycle is more current. * Possibly the biggest thing I like about PHP over ASP is dynamic includes. Those developers out there know what I mean about this one. Including a file dynamically say from a database field or some other approach. Believe it or not this really opens up a lot of doors in your development. Just my personal opinions and you will find probably everyone on this list will have their own. But that is fine too. It my be best to look at the problem to be solved then choose the platform and language that will best solve it. Original Message Follows From: Philip Hallstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Robert Klinkenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:51:40 -0800 (PST) I don't want to start a war, but last time I looked PHP had native support for every database I'd ever heard of including Oracle, SQLServer, etc... Just don't want the guy doing the report that php is database limited... On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Robert Klinkenberg wrote: > Well, I personally prefer PHP over ASP because better support from > webhosting companies, but ASP has some good points. > This is especially the case if you can setup the complete hosting > environment yourself and have some money to spend. > > First of all databases. PHP has support for a limited but interesting list > of databases, especially the support for mysql and postgres is handy for a > webserver. On the other hand, ASP has good support for most bussiness > servers (ORACLE MS SQL Server,) with OLE-DB and a lot more databases > with ODBC. > > The development tools. Definately a win for ASP (with vb.net C# and C++ you > have a complete IDE and with Dreamweaver Ultradev you can pretty much point > and click. SO you can choose whatever tool you like. > PHP has very limited IDE's. > > Price. ASP solutions are mostly build with Windows 2000 Server and MS SQL > Server or Oracle and an expensive IDE. So it's pretty expensive to build. > PHP is mostly used with Linux, Apache and MySQL and is a lot cheaper (you > only need to buy the hardware and the software is virtually free) > > Programming language: This is off course a personal taste but with ASP > (.net) you can use VB/C++/C#. So if you are used to VB or C++ it's a bit > easier to start with. > > Modules. Both have a lot of free tools available. However I personally find > the PHP modules more usefull. (With the exception of the Crystal Report > generator in .net, pretty usable reports without a lot of work). > > It's a bit easier for a novice to get started with ASP as with PHP, and it's > pertty easy to make the project look good. > > So, if you have the cash and some inexperienced programmers working for you > ASP is the save bet. If you have a small company, are a student, depend on > webhosting or are a pretty experienced programmer, PHP might be a better > choose. > > Robert Klinkenberg > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
Well, I don't know ASP, but I fonud that learning PHP was really easy when you already know C, C++ And no variables types, pointer, etc ... is great !!! Le Mercredi 9 Janvier 2002 17:01, Dean Ouellette a écrit : > I am a newbie to programming, ASP is easier to learn? I heard PHP was > > At 04:48 PM 1/9/2002 +0100, Robert Klinkenberg wrote: > >Well, I personally prefer PHP over ASP because better support from > >webhosting companies, but ASP has some good points. > >This is especially the case if you can setup the complete hosting > >environment yourself and have some money to spend. > > > >First of all databases. PHP has support for a limited but interesting list > >of databases, especially the support for mysql and postgres is handy for a > >webserver. On the other hand, ASP has good support for most bussiness > >servers (ORACLE MS SQL Server,) with OLE-DB and a lot more databases > >with ODBC. > > > >The development tools. Definately a win for ASP (with vb.net C# and C++ > > you have a complete IDE and with Dreamweaver Ultradev you can pretty much > > point and click. SO you can choose whatever tool you like. > >PHP has very limited IDE's. > > > >Price. ASP solutions are mostly build with Windows 2000 Server and MS SQL > >Server or Oracle and an expensive IDE. So it's pretty expensive to build. > >PHP is mostly used with Linux, Apache and MySQL and is a lot cheaper (you > >only need to buy the hardware and the software is virtually free) > > > >Programming language: This is off course a personal taste but with ASP > >(.net) you can use VB/C++/C#. So if you are used to VB or C++ it's a bit > >easier to start with. > > > >Modules. Both have a lot of free tools available. However I personally > > find the PHP modules more usefull. (With the exception of the Crystal > > Report generator in .net, pretty usable reports without a lot of work). > > > >It's a bit easier for a novice to get started with ASP as with PHP, and > > it's pertty easy to make the project look good. > > > >So, if you have the cash and some inexperienced programmers working for > > you ASP is the save bet. If you have a small company, are a student, > > depend on webhosting or are a pretty experienced programmer, PHP might be > > a better choose. > > > >Robert Klinkenberg > > > >-- > >PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( * >Nicolas Costes, //\\ IUT de La Roche / Yon ( \/ ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] < < http://luxregina.free.fr -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs. ASP
I am a newbie to programming, ASP is easier to learn? I heard PHP was At 04:48 PM 1/9/2002 +0100, Robert Klinkenberg wrote: >Well, I personally prefer PHP over ASP because better support from >webhosting companies, but ASP has some good points. >This is especially the case if you can setup the complete hosting >environment yourself and have some money to spend. > >First of all databases. PHP has support for a limited but interesting list >of databases, especially the support for mysql and postgres is handy for a >webserver. On the other hand, ASP has good support for most bussiness >servers (ORACLE MS SQL Server,) with OLE-DB and a lot more databases >with ODBC. > >The development tools. Definately a win for ASP (with vb.net C# and C++ you >have a complete IDE and with Dreamweaver Ultradev you can pretty much point >and click. SO you can choose whatever tool you like. >PHP has very limited IDE's. > >Price. ASP solutions are mostly build with Windows 2000 Server and MS SQL >Server or Oracle and an expensive IDE. So it's pretty expensive to build. >PHP is mostly used with Linux, Apache and MySQL and is a lot cheaper (you >only need to buy the hardware and the software is virtually free) > >Programming language: This is off course a personal taste but with ASP >(.net) you can use VB/C++/C#. So if you are used to VB or C++ it's a bit >easier to start with. > >Modules. Both have a lot of free tools available. However I personally find >the PHP modules more usefull. (With the exception of the Crystal Report >generator in .net, pretty usable reports without a lot of work). > >It's a bit easier for a novice to get started with ASP as with PHP, and it's >pertty easy to make the project look good. > >So, if you have the cash and some inexperienced programmers working for you >ASP is the save bet. If you have a small company, are a student, depend on >webhosting or are a pretty experienced programmer, PHP might be a better >choose. > >Robert Klinkenberg > >-- >PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
