Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Ashley Sheridan wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 02:53 +, Joseph Masoud wrote: On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). ~Philip MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me bald through hair pulling! I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions. The different audiences theory has been bought up several times but I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this different audiences theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell me? I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The powerful companies almost always get what they want. I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that something [put mildly] bad is coming. What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin. Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed, Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps and MySQL is known more for performance. I just think it may be a little early to be condemning Oracle yet, we should wait a little to at least see what stance they have on the whole thing. And before you ask, no I have no connection to Oracle, I'm an avid MySQL fan! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Let's not forget one of the biggest decisions on why people choose MySQL over Oracle/MSSQL it's way cheap. So cheap they're nearly giving it away. Oh wait! They ARE giving it away. You start to piss people off whenever you take away their working, free option. Also by being open source, you have plenty of people that have the opportunity to work with it. The biggest reason I haven't messed with Oracle (except in college for my db class) is that it's expensive. Don't underestimate how cheap people are. There's your different audience. ~Philip
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Philip Thompson philthath...@gmail.comwrote: On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Ashley Sheridan wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 02:53 +, Joseph Masoud wrote: On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). ~Philip MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me bald through hair pulling! I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions. The different audiences theory has been bought up several times but I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this different audiences theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell me? I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The powerful companies almost always get what they want. I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that something [put mildly] bad is coming. What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin. Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed, Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps and MySQL is known more for performance. I just think it may be a little early to be condemning Oracle yet, we should wait a little to at least see what stance they have on the whole thing. And before you ask, no I have no connection to Oracle, I'm an avid MySQL fan! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Let's not forget one of the biggest decisions on why people choose MySQL over Oracle/MSSQL it's way cheap. So cheap they're nearly giving it away. Oh wait! They ARE giving it away. You start to piss people off whenever you take away their working, free option. Also by being open source, you have plenty of people that have the opportunity to work with it. The biggest reason I haven't messed with Oracle (except in college for my db class) is that it's expensive. Don't underestimate how cheap people are. There's your different audience. ~Philip Your rant has been repeated so many times that it is becoming like a corporate mantra. Some of the biggest software companies in the world use open source software (which is free as in free beer). Are companies that use Linux or FreeBSD as their server software cheap? For the remainder of my argument, I will assume that your assertions only apply to database servers (I'm not sure why you've chosen to single them out). It is disheartening that developers who decide to use open source software are castigated as cheap. Well in my case, I like to know what's under the bonnet. That's just me, not a generalization and I emphasize that I am not speaking on behalf of anyone. The tenets of a successful argument include a viable theory substantiated by reliable and independently verifiable facts (none of which exist in your rant). I will, nevertheless, try to make sense of your logic [in my own mind[. I think you are making 2 assertions and then clumsily using them to prove your claim. Assertion 1: It is inconvenient when a successful, widely adopted and very convenient open source solution is taken away from the community (I am aware that there are no explicit plans to kill the project, but this is my perception based on how Oracle treated InnoDB). True. This is not only inconvenient, it is rude, immoral and very selfish. Now, you tell me who's being cheap? Developers who implement MySQL (for whatever reason) or Oracle by viciously going after businesses that are happily using MySQL? Assertion 2: People who implement Open Source Software are tawdry. This is absurd. Period. Cost is one of the more important factors when choosing a software solution to implement,
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On Dec 16, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Yousif Masoud wrote: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Philip Thompson philthath...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Ashley Sheridan wrote: On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 02:53 +, Joseph Masoud wrote: On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). ~Philip MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me bald through hair pulling! I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions. The different audiences theory has been bought up several times but I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this different audiences theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell me? I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The powerful companies almost always get what they want. I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that something [put mildly] bad is coming. What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin. Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed, Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps and MySQL is known more for performance. I just think it may be a little early to be condemning Oracle yet, we should wait a little to at least see what stance they have on the whole thing. And before you ask, no I have no connection to Oracle, I'm an avid MySQL fan! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Let's not forget one of the biggest decisions on why people choose MySQL over Oracle/MSSQL it's way cheap. So cheap they're nearly giving it away. Oh wait! They ARE giving it away. You start to piss people off whenever you take away their working, free option. Also by being open source, you have plenty of people that have the opportunity to work with it. The biggest reason I haven't messed with Oracle (except in college for my db class) is that it's expensive. Don't underestimate how cheap people are. There's your different audience. ~Philip Your rant has been repeated so many times that it is becoming like a corporate mantra. Some of the biggest software companies in the world use open source software (which is free as in free beer). Are companies that use Linux or FreeBSD as their server software cheap? For the remainder of my argument, I will assume that your assertions only apply to database servers (I'm not sure why you've chosen to single them out). It is disheartening that developers who decide to use open source software are castigated as cheap. Well in my case, I like to know what's under the bonnet. That's just me, not a generalization and I emphasize that I am not speaking on behalf of anyone. The tenets of a successful argument include a viable theory substantiated by reliable and independently verifiable facts (none of which exist in your rant). I will, nevertheless, try to make sense of your logic [in my own mind[. I think you are making 2 assertions and then clumsily using them to prove your claim. Assertion 1: It is inconvenient when a successful, widely adopted and very convenient open source solution is taken away from the community (I am aware that there are no explicit plans to kill the project, but this is my perception based on how Oracle treated InnoDB). True. This is not only inconvenient, it is rude, immoral and very selfish. Now, you tell me who's being cheap? Developers who implement MySQL (for whatever reason) or Oracle by viciously going after businesses that are happily using MySQL? Assertion 2: People who implement Open Source Software are
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 02:53 +, Joseph Masoud wrote: On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). ~Philip MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me bald through hair pulling! I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions. The different audiences theory has been bought up several times but I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this different audiences theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell me? I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The powerful companies almost always get what they want. I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that something [put mildly] bad is coming. What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin. Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed, Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps and MySQL is known more for performance. I just think it may be a little early to be condemning Oracle yet, we should wait a little to at least see what stance they have on the whole thing. And before you ask, no I have no connection to Oracle, I'm an avid MySQL fan! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:03:23PM +, Ashley Sheridan wrote: snip I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed, Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps and MySQL is known more for performance. PostgreSQL generally matches MySQL in performance, and maintains referential integrity (foreign keys and such) without the need for multiple backend storage engines. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). ~Philip -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). ~Philip MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me bald through hair pulling! I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). ~Philip MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me bald through hair pulling! I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions. The different audiences theory has been bought up several times but I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this different audiences theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell me? I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The powerful companies almost always get what they want. I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that something [put mildly] bad is coming. What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin. Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
Philip Thompson wrote: On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL). It's on my sig Firebird It was Jim Starkey who wrote the original code for it and who MySQL poached to try and create a version of MySQL with the same power. Something which has not been completed. I've been running Firebird since it's closed source Interbase days last century! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
rich...@rgraph.net wrote: Hi, You might have already seen this, however if you haven't this may interest you: http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html Sent my appeal to comp-merger-regis...@ec.europa.eu and I would suggest everyone on this list does the same. The European Union does not exactly have a good track record when it comes to software and patents. Best regards, Stijn Verholen -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD
Re: [PHP] MySQL Appeal from Monty
Lenin wrote: You might also like this: Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
