Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Eddie Drapkin wrote: > autoloading doesn't do anything but follow a set of logic rules to decide > what file to require, so it doesn't mess with opcode caches at all. umm.., right, but what do you think happens at the center of that logic ? require / include calls. which obviously hits the opcode cache, if one is running. i did however draw an inaccurate equivalence between dynamic loading and autoloading, which is a misnomer, since dynamic loading such as $this->load() in ci must be done explicitly, whereas the autoloader will do those lookups on your behalf when needed. its a step beyond $this->load() really. essentially all ci is doing for a performance boost is something like this case 1 case 2 (ci style)
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
autoloading doesn't do anything but follow a set of logic rules to decide what file to require, so it doesn't mess with opcode caches at all. On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Nathan Nobbe wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Tony Marston < > t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk > > wrote: > > > > > "Eddie Drapkin" wrote in message > > news:68de37340905280801m6964d355l2d6d8ef773f3b...@mail.gmail.com... > > > There's a huge difference between laziness and opting in to use an > > > incredibly useful (and easy to properly deploy) feature to save myself > > > time > > > so that I can spend more time writing that structured and efficient > code > > > of > > > which you speak. And the problem with what you're saying is that you > > > still > > > have to include 'singleton.php' somewhere in order to call its static > > > methods, > > > > I have a single general purpose include file which autmatically includes > > all > > other standard files, so I never have to explicity load my singleton > class. > > > > > and I'd rather just spend 30 minutes writing an autoloader object > > > and letting it deal with finding any of the classes I use then trying > to > > > keep track of legacy code I didn't write and require'ing them all over > > the > > > place. > > > > I'd rather not waste 30 minutes of my time writing a feature that I don't > > need. > > > > The difference between using and not using the autoload feature does not > > have any measurable impact on either my development times, nor the > > execution > > of my code, so I choose to not use it. That's my choice, and I'm sticking > > to > > it. > > > > > The way I look at it, if you spend all your time handling things that > you > > > could automate - and if written properly, will always work as expected > > > (it's > > > called unit testing and debugging) - then you have no time to write > that > > > structured and efficient code in order to meet your deadlines! :) > > > > Not using autoload does not have any noticeable effect on my deadlines, > so > > I > > have no incentive to use it. Just because you say that I *should* use it > > carries no weight at all. > > > this simple fact is that autoloading is something anyone can implement > themselves. take a look at code igniters $this->load() arrangement. > basically they do dynamic loading rather than requires, and thats part of > the reason for the massive performance advantage it has over other > frameworks. > > autoloading is nice because it affords a somewhat standard approach to a > common issue. sure, you could do something like ci, but i say why bother, > why not just use __autoload() and freinds now that php offers it as a > feature. then again, if you already have some dynamic loading system, of > course theres no real call to move to __autoload(). (and of course ci is > written w/ php4 support in mind, which obviously eliminates __autoload in > their scenario) > > im also skeptical of the advantages dynamic loading offers in systems > running an opcode cache. essentially after initially caching a scripts > opcodes, successive include/require calls are a hit to the cache to see its > already there. im sure dynamic loading is offers dramatic performance > gains > systems not running opcode caches though. > > -nathan >
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > > "Eddie Drapkin" wrote in message > news:68de37340905280801m6964d355l2d6d8ef773f3b...@mail.gmail.com... > > There's a huge difference between laziness and opting in to use an > > incredibly useful (and easy to properly deploy) feature to save myself > > time > > so that I can spend more time writing that structured and efficient code > > of > > which you speak. And the problem with what you're saying is that you > > still > > have to include 'singleton.php' somewhere in order to call its static > > methods, > > I have a single general purpose include file which autmatically includes > all > other standard files, so I never have to explicity load my singleton class. > > > and I'd rather just spend 30 minutes writing an autoloader object > > and letting it deal with finding any of the classes I use then trying to > > keep track of legacy code I didn't write and require'ing them all over > the > > place. > > I'd rather not waste 30 minutes of my time writing a feature that I don't > need. > > The difference between using and not using the autoload feature does not > have any measurable impact on either my development times, nor the > execution > of my code, so I choose to not use it. That's my choice, and I'm sticking > to > it. > > > The way I look at it, if you spend all your time handling things that you > > could automate - and if written properly, will always work as expected > > (it's > > called unit testing and debugging) - then you have no time to write that > > structured and efficient code in order to meet your deadlines! :) > > Not using autoload does not have any noticeable effect on my deadlines, so > I > have no incentive to use it. Just because you say that I *should* use it > carries no weight at all. this simple fact is that autoloading is something anyone can implement themselves. take a look at code igniters $this->load() arrangement. basically they do dynamic loading rather than requires, and thats part of the reason for the massive performance advantage it has over other frameworks. autoloading is nice because it affords a somewhat standard approach to a common issue. sure, you could do something like ci, but i say why bother, why not just use __autoload() and freinds now that php offers it as a feature. then again, if you already have some dynamic loading system, of course theres no real call to move to __autoload(). (and of course ci is written w/ php4 support in mind, which obviously eliminates __autoload in their scenario) im also skeptical of the advantages dynamic loading offers in systems running an opcode cache. essentially after initially caching a scripts opcodes, successive include/require calls are a hit to the cache to see its already there. im sure dynamic loading is offers dramatic performance gains systems not running opcode caches though. -nathan
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
"Eddie Drapkin" wrote in message
news:68de37340905280801m6964d355l2d6d8ef773f3b...@mail.gmail.com...
> There's a huge difference between laziness and opting in to use an
> incredibly useful (and easy to properly deploy) feature to save myself
> time
> so that I can spend more time writing that structured and efficient code
> of
> which you speak. And the problem with what you're saying is that you
> still
> have to include 'singleton.php' somewhere in order to call its static
> methods,
I have a single general purpose include file which autmatically includes all
other standard files, so I never have to explicity load my singleton class.
> and I'd rather just spend 30 minutes writing an autoloader object
> and letting it deal with finding any of the classes I use then trying to
> keep track of legacy code I didn't write and require'ing them all over the
> place.
I'd rather not waste 30 minutes of my time writing a feature that I don't
need.
The difference between using and not using the autoload feature does not
have any measurable impact on either my development times, nor the execution
of my code, so I choose to not use it. That's my choice, and I'm sticking to
it.
> The way I look at it, if you spend all your time handling things that you
> could automate - and if written properly, will always work as expected
> (it's
> called unit testing and debugging) - then you have no time to write that
> structured and efficient code in order to meet your deadlines! :)
Not using autoload does not have any noticeable effect on my deadlines, so I
have no incentive to use it. Just because you say that I *should* use it
carries no weight at all.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tony Marston <
> t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Eddie Drapkin" wrote in message
>> news:68de37340905280737t3e1ad844y188ab8fa08f17...@mail.gmail.com...
>> > Your code might not, but you sure do! Spending all that time writing
>> > require statements = :(
>>
>> If you are too lazy to write "require" statements then you are probably
>> too
>> lazy to write readable, well structured and efficient code. Besides, I
>> don't
>> use "require" statements, I use
>>$dbobject =& singleton::getInstance('classname');
>>
>> I don't use autoload because *I* want to be in control. I prefer not to
>> rely
>> on automatuic features which may not work as expected.
>>
>> --
>> Tony Marston
>> http://www.tonymarston.net
>> http://www.radicore.org
>>
>> > On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tony Marston
>> > > >> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> wrote in message
>> >> news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com...
>> >> > Two things:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php
>> >> > instead
>> >> > of
>> >> > foo/bar.php)
>> >> > 2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually
>> include
>> >> > anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
>> >>
>> >> I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I
>> >> have
>> >> never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused
>> or
>> >> abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does
>> >> not
>> >> suffer in the least!
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Tony Marston
>> >> http://www.tonymarston.net
>> >> http://www.radicore.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>>
>
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
There's a huge difference between laziness and opting in to use an
incredibly useful (and easy to properly deploy) feature to save myself time
so that I can spend more time writing that structured and efficient code of
which you speak. And the problem with what you're saying is that you still
have to include 'singleton.php' somewhere in order to call its static
methods, and I'd rather just spend 30 minutes writing an autoloader object
and letting it deal with finding any of the classes I use then trying to
keep track of legacy code I didn't write and require'ing them all over the
place.
The way I look at it, if you spend all your time handling things that you
could automate - and if written properly, will always work as expected (it's
called unit testing and debugging) - then you have no time to write that
structured and efficient code in order to meet your deadlines! :)
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tony Marston <
t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Eddie Drapkin" wrote in message
> news:68de37340905280737t3e1ad844y188ab8fa08f17...@mail.gmail.com...
> > Your code might not, but you sure do! Spending all that time writing
> > require statements = :(
>
> If you are too lazy to write "require" statements then you are probably too
> lazy to write readable, well structured and efficient code. Besides, I
> don't
> use "require" statements, I use
>$dbobject =& singleton::getInstance('classname');
>
> I don't use autoload because *I* want to be in control. I prefer not to
> rely
> on automatuic features which may not work as expected.
>
> --
> Tony Marston
> http://www.tonymarston.net
> http://www.radicore.org
>
> > On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tony Marston
> > >> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> wrote in message
> >> news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com...
> >> > Two things:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead
> >> > of
> >> > foo/bar.php)
> >> > 2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually
> include
> >> > anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
> >>
> >> I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I have
> >> never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused
> or
> >> abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does not
> >> suffer in the least!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tony Marston
> >> http://www.tonymarston.net
> >> http://www.radicore.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
"Eddie Drapkin" wrote in message
news:68de37340905280737t3e1ad844y188ab8fa08f17...@mail.gmail.com...
> Your code might not, but you sure do! Spending all that time writing
> require statements = :(
If you are too lazy to write "require" statements then you are probably too
lazy to write readable, well structured and efficient code. Besides, I don't
use "require" statements, I use
$dbobject =& singleton::getInstance('classname');
I don't use autoload because *I* want to be in control. I prefer not to rely
on automatuic features which may not work as expected.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tony Marston
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> wrote in message
>> news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com...
>> > Two things:
>> >
>> > 1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead
>> > of
>> > foo/bar.php)
>> > 2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually include
>> > anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
>>
>> I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I have
>> never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused or
>> abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does not
>> suffer in the least!
>>
>> --
>> Tony Marston
>> http://www.tonymarston.net
>> http://www.radicore.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>>
>
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
Your code might not, but you sure do! Spending all that time writing require statements = :( On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > > wrote in message > news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com... > > Two things: > > > > 1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead of > > foo/bar.php) > > 2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually include > > anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must! > > I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I have > never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused or > abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does not > suffer in the least! > > -- > Tony Marston > http://www.tonymarston.net > http://www.radicore.org > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
wrote in message news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com... > Two things: > > 1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead of > foo/bar.php) > 2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually include > anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must! I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I have never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused or abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does not suffer in the least! -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
Two things:
1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead of
foo/bar.php)
2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually include
anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
On May 28, 2009 8:49am, kranthi wrote:
i never faced such a problem and i can assure you that it will never
happen. try...
main.php
require('second.php');
?>
second.php
test
call main.php via AJAX and see the responseText.
many things can go wrong in your coding. dont come to the conclusion
that this particular thing is not working.
i recommend you firebug firefox adddon (just go to the net tab and you
can see all the details of the communication between client and
server)
and i find it helpful to use a standard javascript(jQuery in my case)
library instead of highly limited plain javascript language
and for you case its difficult to comment without seeing your actual code.
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