Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Dominic Raferd]

On 14 December 2017 at 00:13, Maarten  wrote:

>  Where can I find documentation on all the settings of  the amavis-new
> configuration file. The only documentation I can find is about how to
> set it up with postfix in README.postfix. There are some comments in
> the configuration file, but not clear enough for me to understand what
> each setting does. Since I don't quite understand how amvisd-new works
> it would be useful to know what each setting does. That way it will be
> easier to migrate my settings over to  amavisd-new as much as it is
> possible.


amavisd-new home is https://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/

​I suggest you look for file amavisd.conf-default or you can download the
latest version from
https://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/amavisd.conf-default.​ [Occasionally
the defaults given in this file may be overridden in the build, for
instance amavisd.conf-default states that default $MYHOME = '/var/amavis'
but in Ubuntu's package of amavisd-new $HOME has default value
/var/lib/amavis - probably Debian is the same.]

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Maarten]

 Where can I find documentation on all the settings of  the amavis-new
configuration file. The only documentation I can find is about how to 
set it up with postfix in README.postfix. There are some comments in 
the configuration file, but not clear enough for me to understand what 
each setting does. Since I don't quite understand how amvisd-new works 
it would be useful to know what each setting does. That way it will be
easier to migrate my settings over to  amavisd-new as much as it is 
possible.


On 12/13/2017 04:55 PM, John Peach wrote:
> On 12/13/2017 10:52 AM, L.P.H. van Belle wrote:
>> Hai,
>>
>>
>> mailscanner runs fine here for about 5-6 years now, with postfix.
>> Mailscanner + postfix (postscreen) rules here :-)
>
> You *think* it's been running fine. When the author of postfix
> specifically warns against using it, it would be foolhardy to ignore him.
>
>>
>> But if you want a quicky to test.
>> https://efa-project.org/  = Mailscanner + mailwatch +... Lots of
>> extra's.
>>
>>
>> Greetz,
>>
>> Louis
>>
>>
>>
>>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>>> Van: postfixlists-070...@billmail.scconsult.com
>>> [mailto:owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org] Namens Bill Cole
>>> Verzonden: woensdag 13 december 2017 16:46
>>> Aan: Postfix users
>>> Onderwerp: Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new
>>>
>>> On 13 Dec 2017, at 4:45 (-0500), Maarten wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to  their documentation using MailScanner with
>>> postfix works
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/
>>>
>>> Yes, and there's a link at the bottom of that page to the postfix.org
>>> add-on page which specifically warns against MailScanner.
>>>
>>>> What would be the advantage to switching to something like
>>>> amavisd-new?
>>>
>>> The advantage to something that uses the SMTP Proxy interface or the
>>> Milter interface is that you can trust that it won't be
>>> broken without
>>> warning or documentation in a future Postfix release. Apart from the
>>> risk that it relies on Postfix not changing queue structures and
>>> behaviors which are explicitly unsupported and subject to change,
>>> MailScanner works directly with the Postfix queue in a way
>>> that Wietse
>>> has been saying for years is already not safe. I haven't analyzed the
>>> Postfix queue-handling code (life is too short...) but I trust his
>>> judgment of safety in working with the Postfix queue over
>>> that of anyone
>>> who didn't write that code. The MailScanner argument
>>> (essentially that
>>> what they do doesn't break enough to notice) is entirely unpersuasive.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Bill Cole
>>> b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
>>> (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
>>> Currently Seeking Steady Work: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Bill Cole]

On 13 Dec 2017, at 11:01 (-0500), L.P.H. van Belle wrote:

No, i know it runs fine, after about 2-3 milion emails processed, i 
know .. Really..


My vague recollection of MailScanner's inherent risk is that it is 
volume-dependent, i.e. it might never cause any problem with a million 
messages over the space of a year, but with a million messages in one 
day, a dozen get mangled or lost.


--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Currently Seeking Steady Work: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole

RE: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[L . P . H . van Belle]

No, i know it runs fine, after about 2-3 milion emails processed, i know .. 
Really.. 
And no i did not ignore him, but i want mailscanner and i want postfix and not 
exim. 

Did you even try it and test it? And if so, what did you encounter?? 
I only found 1 thing and thats fixed. 
something with long queue id-s and releasing to ms exchange servers, these did 
not arrive.
But again thats fixed now. 


Greetz, 

Louis


> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: john-post...@peachfamily.net 
> [mailto:owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org] Namens John Peach
> Verzonden: woensdag 13 december 2017 16:56
> Aan: L.P.H. van Belle; Postfix users
> Onderwerp: Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new
> 
> On 12/13/2017 10:52 AM, L.P.H. van Belle wrote:
> > Hai,
> > 
> > 
> > mailscanner runs fine here for about 5-6 years now, with postfix.
> > Mailscanner + postfix (postscreen) rules here :-)
> 
> You *think* it's been running fine. When the author of postfix 
> specifically warns against using it, it would be foolhardy to 
> ignore him.
> 
> > 
> > But if you want a quicky to test.
> > https://efa-project.org/  = Mailscanner + mailwatch +... 
> Lots of extra's.
> > 
> > 
> > Greetz,
> > 
> > Louis
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> >> Van: postfixlists-070...@billmail.scconsult.com
> >> [mailto:owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org] Namens Bill Cole
> >> Verzonden: woensdag 13 december 2017 16:46
> >> Aan: Postfix users
> >> Onderwerp: Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new
> >>
> >> On 13 Dec 2017, at 4:45 (-0500), Maarten wrote:
> >>
> >>> According to  their documentation using MailScanner with
> >> postfix works
> >>> too.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/
> >>
> >> Yes, and there's a link at the bottom of that page to the 
> postfix.org
> >> add-on page which specifically warns against MailScanner.
> >>
> >>> What would be the advantage to switching to something like
> >>> amavisd-new?
> >>
> >> The advantage to something that uses the SMTP Proxy 
> interface or the
> >> Milter interface is that you can trust that it won't be
> >> broken without
> >> warning or documentation in a future Postfix release. 
> Apart from the
> >> risk that it relies on Postfix not changing queue structures and
> >> behaviors which are explicitly unsupported and subject to change,
> >> MailScanner works directly with the Postfix queue in a way
> >> that Wietse
> >> has been saying for years is already not safe. I haven't 
> analyzed the
> >> Postfix queue-handling code (life is too short...) but I trust his
> >> judgment of safety in working with the Postfix queue over
> >> that of anyone
> >> who didn't write that code. The MailScanner argument
> >> (essentially that
> >> what they do doesn't break enough to notice) is entirely 
> unpersuasive.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Bill Cole
> >> b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
> >> (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
> >> Currently Seeking Steady Work: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole
> >>
> >>
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John
> PGP Public Key: 412934AC
> 
> 

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[John Peach]

On 12/13/2017 10:52 AM, L.P.H. van Belle wrote:

Hai,


mailscanner runs fine here for about 5-6 years now, with postfix.
Mailscanner + postfix (postscreen) rules here :-)


You *think* it's been running fine. When the author of postfix 
specifically warns against using it, it would be foolhardy to ignore him.




But if you want a quicky to test.
https://efa-project.org/  = Mailscanner + mailwatch +... Lots of extra's.


Greetz,

Louis




-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: postfixlists-070...@billmail.scconsult.com
[mailto:owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org] Namens Bill Cole
Verzonden: woensdag 13 december 2017 16:46
Aan: Postfix users
Onderwerp: Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

On 13 Dec 2017, at 4:45 (-0500), Maarten wrote:


According to  their documentation using MailScanner with

postfix works

too.

https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/


Yes, and there's a link at the bottom of that page to the postfix.org
add-on page which specifically warns against MailScanner.


What would be the advantage to switching to something like
amavisd-new?


The advantage to something that uses the SMTP Proxy interface or the
Milter interface is that you can trust that it won't be
broken without
warning or documentation in a future Postfix release. Apart from the
risk that it relies on Postfix not changing queue structures and
behaviors which are explicitly unsupported and subject to change,
MailScanner works directly with the Postfix queue in a way
that Wietse
has been saying for years is already not safe. I haven't analyzed the
Postfix queue-handling code (life is too short...) but I trust his
judgment of safety in working with the Postfix queue over
that of anyone
who didn't write that code. The MailScanner argument
(essentially that
what they do doesn't break enough to notice) is entirely unpersuasive.

--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Currently Seeking Steady Work: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole









--
John
PGP Public Key: 412934AC

RE: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[L . P . H . van Belle]

Hai, 


mailscanner runs fine here for about 5-6 years now, with postfix. 
Mailscanner + postfix (postscreen) rules here :-) 

But if you want a quicky to test. 
https://efa-project.org/  = Mailscanner + mailwatch +... Lots of extra's. 


Greetz, 

Louis



> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: postfixlists-070...@billmail.scconsult.com 
> [mailto:owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org] Namens Bill Cole
> Verzonden: woensdag 13 december 2017 16:46
> Aan: Postfix users
> Onderwerp: Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new
> 
> On 13 Dec 2017, at 4:45 (-0500), Maarten wrote:
> 
> > According to  their documentation using MailScanner with 
> postfix works 
> > too.
> >
> > https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/
> 
> Yes, and there's a link at the bottom of that page to the postfix.org 
> add-on page which specifically warns against MailScanner.
> 
> > What would be the advantage to switching to something like 
> > amavisd-new?
> 
> The advantage to something that uses the SMTP Proxy interface or the 
> Milter interface is that you can trust that it won't be 
> broken without 
> warning or documentation in a future Postfix release. Apart from the 
> risk that it relies on Postfix not changing queue structures and 
> behaviors which are explicitly unsupported and subject to change,  
> MailScanner works directly with the Postfix queue in a way 
> that Wietse 
> has been saying for years is already not safe. I haven't analyzed the 
> Postfix queue-handling code (life is too short...) but I trust his 
> judgment of safety in working with the Postfix queue over 
> that of anyone 
> who didn't write that code. The MailScanner argument 
> (essentially that 
> what they do doesn't break enough to notice) is entirely unpersuasive.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Cole
> b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
> (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
> Currently Seeking Steady Work: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole
> 
> 

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Bill Cole]

On 13 Dec 2017, at 4:45 (-0500), Maarten wrote:

According to  their documentation using MailScanner with postfix works 
too.


https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/


Yes, and there's a link at the bottom of that page to the postfix.org 
add-on page which specifically warns against MailScanner.


What would be the advantage to switching to something like 
amavisd-new?


The advantage to something that uses the SMTP Proxy interface or the 
Milter interface is that you can trust that it won't be broken without 
warning or documentation in a future Postfix release. Apart from the 
risk that it relies on Postfix not changing queue structures and 
behaviors which are explicitly unsupported and subject to change,  
MailScanner works directly with the Postfix queue in a way that Wietse 
has been saying for years is already not safe. I haven't analyzed the 
Postfix queue-handling code (life is too short...) but I trust his 
judgment of safety in working with the Postfix queue over that of anyone 
who didn't write that code. The MailScanner argument (essentially that 
what they do doesn't break enough to notice) is entirely unpersuasive.


--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Currently Seeking Steady Work: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Matus UHLAR - fantomas]

On 13.12.17 11:13, Maarten wrote:
I'll have a look at amavisd-new after the new year since that seems 
to be the more update one.
So with amvisd-new you can also do spam filtering, use different 
scanners, filename blocking etc?


yes.


On 2017-12-13 11:02, Ansgar Wiechers wrote:

MailScanner operates on Postfix internal structures (namely the mail
queue). Postfix does not make guarantees about these (meaning they 
might
be subject to change anytime without prior notice). Hence 
MailScanner is
not supported and not recommended with Postfix, regardless of 
whether it

does or doesn't work right now.


and it's also an ugly solution. milters are way nicer. 


--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way.

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Maarten]

I'll have a look at amavisd-new after the new year since that seems to 
be the more update one.
So with amvisd-new you can also do spam filtering, use different 
scanners, filename blocking etc?



On 2017-12-13 11:02, Ansgar Wiechers wrote:

On 2017-12-13 Maarten wrote:

According to  their documentation using MailScanner with postfix works
too.

https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/


MailScanner operates on Postfix internal structures (namely the mail
queue). Postfix does not make guarantees about these (meaning they 
might
be subject to change anytime without prior notice). Hence MailScanner 
is
not supported and not recommended with Postfix, regardless of whether 
it

does or doesn't work right now.

Regards
Ansgar Wiechers

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Ansgar Wiechers]

On 2017-12-13 Maarten wrote:
> According to  their documentation using MailScanner with postfix works
> too.
> 
> https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/

MailScanner operates on Postfix internal structures (namely the mail
queue). Postfix does not make guarantees about these (meaning they might
be subject to change anytime without prior notice). Hence MailScanner is
not supported and not recommended with Postfix, regardless of whether it
does or doesn't work right now.

Regards
Ansgar Wiechers
-- 
"Abstractions save us time working, but they don't save us time
learning."
--Joel Spolsky

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Maarten]

According to  their documentation using MailScanner with postfix works 
too.


https://www.mailscanner.info/postfix/

What would be the advantage to switching to something like amavisd-new?

.
On 2017-12-13 10:28, Benny Pedersen wrote:

Maarten skrev den 2017-12-13 10:11:

I use MailScanner, I'm happy so far with it.


bad solotion with postfix, since mailscanner uses queue dirs directly,
this is not supported in postfix, mailscanner is designed for sendmail
only, dont try other mta with it

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Benny Pedersen]

Maarten skrev den 2017-12-13 10:11:

I use MailScanner, I'm happy so far with it.


bad solotion with postfix, since mailscanner uses queue dirs directly, 
this is not supported in postfix, mailscanner is designed for sendmail 
only, dont try other mta with it

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Maarten]

I use MailScanner, I'm happy so far with it.


On 2017-12-13 10:05, Benny Pedersen wrote:

John Stoffel skrev den 2017-12-12 16:53:


Now to figure out why spamassisin as a milter ain't working
properly...


try rmilter, configure it for spamd, so you dont need to use spamc :=)

same auhor as rspamd maked it, rmilter is now depricated, hopefully he
wont delete it

ucl was born to users that dont know how to handle xml, where there
was plenti of buggy tools to use it

sad sad

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Benny Pedersen]

John Stoffel skrev den 2017-12-12 16:53:


Now to figure out why spamassisin as a milter ain't working
properly...


try rmilter, configure it for spamd, so you dont need to use spamc :=)

same auhor as rspamd maked it, rmilter is now depricated, hopefully he 
wont delete it


ucl was born to users that dont know how to handle xml, where there was 
plenti of buggy tools to use it


sad sad

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Benny Pedersen]

Sven Schwedas skrev den 2017-12-12 16:12:

On 2017-12-12 10:55, J Doe wrote:


I was wondering if fellow Postfix users would still recommend using 
amavisd-new

when integrating AV (ClamAV), and spam filtering (SpamAssasin) ?


There's nothing wrong with Amavis. The only decent alternative I know 
of

is Rspamd.


https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/tree/master/mail-filter

there is plenti of alternatives :=)

The site I have this in mind for receives a moderate amount of e-mail 
per day.



IMO I'd stick to amavis – while Rspamd /can/ perform better at large
scale, the documentation is awful. So stick to what you know.


so stay away from alternatives ?

sorry being confussed, using clamav-milter, spampd here, pretty simple 
for me

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[J Doe]

On Dec 12, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:

>>> On 2017-12-12 10:55, J Doe wrote:
>>> I was wondering if fellow Postfix users would still recommend using 
>>> amavisd-new when integrating AV (ClamAV), and spam filtering (SpamAssasin) ?
> 
>> On 12.12.17 16:12, Sven Schwedas wrote:
>> There's nothing wrong with Amavis. The only decent alternative I know of
>> is Rspamd.
> 
> maybe mimedefang and sagator.
> 
>>> The site I have this in mind for receives a moderate amount of e-mail per 
>>> day.
> 
>> IMO I'd stick to amavis – while Rspamd /can/ perform better at large
>> scale, the documentation is awful. So stick to what you know.
> 
> not that amavisd couldn't have better docs :-)

Hi everyone,

Ok, good to know that amavisd-new is still a reasonable solution!

Thank you for mentioning rspamd.  I had only briefly checked that out (I really 
like that Lua is the integrated scripting language - I’ve used Lua on a number 
of other projects), but the fact that the documentation is lacking is a show 
stopper for me.  I definitely agree with the sentiment that incomplete 
documentation is a bug.

Thanks again for your feedback,

- J

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Matus UHLAR - fantomas]

On 2017-12-12 10:55, J Doe wrote:

I was wondering if fellow Postfix users would still recommend using amavisd-new 
when integrating AV (ClamAV), and spam filtering (SpamAssasin) ?


On 12.12.17 16:12, Sven Schwedas wrote:

There's nothing wrong with Amavis. The only decent alternative I know of
is Rspamd.


maybe mimedefang and sagator.


The site I have this in mind for receives a moderate amount of e-mail per day.



IMO I'd stick to amavis – while Rspamd /can/ perform better at large
scale, the documentation is awful. So stick to what you know.


not that amavisd couldn't have better docs :-)

--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
Spam = (S)tupid (P)eople's (A)dvertising (M)ethod

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[John Stoffel]

> "Sven" == Sven Schwedas  writes:

Sven> On 2017-12-12 10:55, J Doe wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I was wondering if fellow Postfix users would still recommend using 
>> amavisd-new when integrating AV (ClamAV), and spam filtering (SpamAssasin) ?

Sven> There's nothing wrong with Amavis. The only decent alternative I
Sven> know of is Rspamd.

I've been using rspamd and I've finally given up on it.  It does a
decent job, but nwo I'm moving back to spamassisin. 

>> The site I have this in mind for receives a moderate amount of e-mail per 
>> day.

Sven> IMO I'd stick to amavis – while Rspamd /can/ perform better at
Sven> large scale, the documentation is awful. So stick to what you
Sven> know.

This is a the biggest downside to rspam, the configuration file layout
and documentation is baroque.  Completely flexible, but so overkill
for a small site.

Now to figure out why spamassisin as a milter ain't working
properly...

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Sven Schwedas]

On 2017-12-12 10:55, J Doe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if fellow Postfix users would still recommend using 
> amavisd-new when integrating AV (ClamAV), and spam filtering (SpamAssasin) ?

There's nothing wrong with Amavis. The only decent alternative I know of
is Rspamd.

> The site I have this in mind for receives a moderate amount of e-mail per day.

IMO I'd stick to amavis – while Rspamd /can/ perform better at large
scale, the documentation is awful. So stick to what you know.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen, / Best Regards,
Sven Schwedas, Systemadministrator
✉ sven.schwe...@tao.at | ☎ +43 680 301 7167
TAO Digital   | Teil der TAO Beratungs- & Management GmbH
Lendplatz 45  | FN 213999f/Klagenfurt, FB-Gericht Villach
A8020 Graz| https://www.tao-digital.at



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

[Noel Jones]

On 12/12/2017 3:55 AM, J Doe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if fellow Postfix users would still recommend using 
> amavisd-new when integrating AV (ClamAV), and spam filtering (SpamAssasin) ?
> 
> The site I have this in mind for receives a moderate amount of e-mail per day.
> 
> This appears to be the most mentioned configuration via web searches, but I 
> was wondering if this still held true for 2017/2018 (amavisd-new’s last 
> release was 2016/04/26) ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - J
> 


I use amavisd-new (configured as an smtpd proxy filter), and I
believe it's still widely used.  It hasn't been updated lately
because it hasn't needed anything.

Some people recommend using the milter interface with amavisd-new
rather than smtp, pick whichever you like. Performance will be similar.


  -- Noel Jones