Re: Call for advice, and possible case study?

2011-06-13 Thread Russel Winder
On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 14:47 +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote: Richard O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nz writes: Well in that case, perhaps the language to start with should be Haskell... Teaching programming by starting people on Haskell is like teaching ESOL (English for non-English speakers) by

Re: Call for advice, and possible case study?

2011-06-13 Thread Alberto Sampaio
I appreciate that comparison and I agree in general. But it would also depends on the informatics program goals. That is, if it is more computing science, more engineering, more IS, and so on. Possibly, it is because of such a lack of agreement about an alternative first language that Java is

Re: Call for advice, and possible case study?

2011-06-13 Thread Allen Higgins
Hi Rebecca With due respect to the discussion on relative merits of Java, Haskell, Miranda, Python etc. of which consensus is undesirable anyway (imho). Many students disengage at the first mention of language basics. But they desperately want to make something themselves, generally a game.

Re: Call for advice, and possible case study?

2011-06-13 Thread Raoul Duke
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 1:28 AM, Allen Higgins allen.higg...@ucd.ie wrote: Many students disengage at the first mention of language basics. But they desperately want to make something themselves, generally a game. Could I suggest you consider the goal (and thus the design) of the introductory

Re: Call for advice, and possible case study?

2011-06-13 Thread Richard O'Keefe
One other alternative that might be worth a mention is the Processing environment. It's based on Java, but you don't _start_ with the full horror thereof, and it has the clunky edit-run approach that Russel Winder advocates, but it does get you drawing fancy pictures fairly quickly. -- The