Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-04 Thread Thomas Green
And where do people want to put Inform 7, the interactive fiction language that is a subset of English and has some semantic inference built in? http://inform7.com/ Is it a programming language? a restricted natural language? both? neither? Thomas On 4 Mar 2011, at 17:17, Kari Laitinen

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-03 Thread Derek M Jones
Richard, What I *don't* see here is any practical relevance to the question of whether 'printf' is part of the C language or not, except for I would come back to my final sentence of my original reply: The definition of 'language' depends on who you are talking to. -- Derek M. Jones

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-03 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On 4/03/2011, at 12:44 AM, Derek M Jones wrote: Richard, What I *don't* see here is any practical relevance to the question of whether 'printf' is part of the C language or not, except for I would come back to my final sentence of my original reply: The definition of 'language'

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-02 Thread Derek M Jones
Kari, By that criterion, printf is definitely part of the C language. printf is not part of the C syntax or semantics, it is a function defined in a library. Fortran and Pascal are examples of languages where the I/O is defined to be part of the syntax/semantics of the languages and not as

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-02 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On 3/03/2011, at 6:14 AM, Derek M Jones wrote: As a compiler writer I don't regard printf as being part of the language but as part of the library. Note however that there are C compilers which, given a call to {sn,s,f,}printf() with a string literal for the format, will check that the

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-02 Thread Derek M Jones
Richard, On 3/03/2011, at 6:14 AM, Derek M Jones wrote: As a compiler writer I don't regard printf as being part of the language but as part of the library. Note however that there are C compilers which, given a call to {sn,s,f,}printf() with a string literal for the format, will check that

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-02 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On 3/03/2011, at 2:41 PM, Derek M Jones wrote: For the last 20 years or so my company has sold a tool that allows developers to specify the name of a function (user defined or otherwise) and various properties about its arguments and return value, these are used to check the source during

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-01 Thread Kari Laitinen
Richard O'Keefe wrote: If you came across a sentence written using English syntax and closed-class words but Japanese open class words, would it still be English? According to the theory that I have presented in http://www.naturalprogramming.com/to_read/estimating_understandability_etc.pdf

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-03-01 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On 1/03/2011, at 11:34 PM, Kari Laitinen wrote: In my earlier post I said that it has been said that the printf function does not belong to the C language. In the paper http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol57-1978/articles/bstj57-6-1991.pdf Ritchie et al. discuss the C language. They say on

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-02-24 Thread Adam Smith
Kari and Richard's attention to symbols, definition, and meaning is highly appropriate, but there's another angle at play here which I think is more central to the language-ness of programming languages. I'd like to share an analogy that's stuck with me for several when thinking about the

Re: Redefining the word language

2011-02-23 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On 24/02/2011, at 3:11 AM, Kari Laitinen wrote: A classic book about the C programming language begins with a program that contains the statement printf(hello, world); It has been said, however, that the printf function that is used in the above statement does not belong to the