Re: The only problem I'm finding: was: Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Chris Gilland]

They need to be fixed, yes, but at the end of the day, it's definitely not a 
show stopper for me.

> On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:52 AM, Ronald J. Glaser  
> wrote:
> 
> I am glad you found these bugs chris, because when they do get fixed that 
> will be a great help to us all.
> 
> Ron.
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2022, at 11:31 PM, Christopher Gilland  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> OK. I'm sorry. Yes. It did come off a bit rudely, but I understand now.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On that note, I did! take the plunge. I'm not ready yet to downgrade, as 
>> things look well... O, Kayyy, and I guess we can discuss it here being 
>> Ventura now is in public release, just with the understanding that everyone 
>> knows that this is technically not yet supported fully, so do at your own 
>> risk, but the track list table seems broken in Ventura with 2022.9, and I 
>> didn't know if you and other accessibility testers were aware of it. It's 
>> not a dealbreaker for me though, as there are a few work arounds.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Avid is so big of an industry, I'd not even remotely know where to start 
>> with contacting people there to give the feedback. Here are the more 
>> specifics though.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I see in the mix and edit windows both the track list table. But, when I 
>> interact with it, if I try pressing VO+Space on any of the tracks, that 
>> track gets selected, even though you don't hear the little click like you 
>> normally would when hitting VO+Space. The issue is however, when trying to 
>> select multiple tracks, as soon as you hit VO+Space on another track, the 
>> previous selection goes away. So for example, say you had tracks 1, and 
>> tracks 2. If I hit vo+space on track 1, it's now selected only. I now 
>> VO+down arrow to track 2 and hit VO+Space. The expected behavior would be 
>> that now, track 1 and! track 2 both would be selected. In reality though, 
>> only track 2 is now selected. If you go back to track 1 and do a VO+Space, 
>> now, track 1 is selected again, but not track 2.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Before you ask, yes, CTRL+P and CTRL+Semi colon do work pretty reliably for 
>> the most part, and adding shift to those seems to work selecting things 
>> contiguously.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The only way I've found to do it otherwise noncontigulously is to use my 
>> actual mouse trackpad, and literally command+click each track one by one to 
>> toggle it from selected to nonselected or vice versa. Looking in the Avid 
>> forums, it appears that this is the official way sighted people do it, and 
>> yes. That way seems to be working totally consistently.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If this isn't known already, is there any Avid people we can push it to so 
>> that this gets fixed by the time it does go official?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> ---
>> Chris Gilland
>> 
>> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland
>> On 10/24/2022 7:00 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> You did nothing wrong at all. I was merely poking a little fun at the fact 
>>> that, despite your disclaimer, you do tend to be overly dramatic with the 
>>> "Chocked beyond belief" type of comment. Sorry, but wouldn't you agree that 
>>> such a statement is just a wee bit over the top? Again, I'm just making 
>>> light of it and I hope you can see the light-hearted humor in it. Helping 
>>> is a good thing, of course and it's a good thing to point out the obvious 
>>> sometimes. It's all good. Don't take offense. I'm just funnin' with you :)
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 24, 2022, at 4:20 PM, Christopher Gilland >>> > wrote:
 
 Goodness, Slau. I'm sorry! Not to be rude/overdramatic here, but I thought 
 I was doing a good thing, helping. I guess not though. Jesus Christ! Thank 
 you for the link though.
 
 
 
 Chris.
 
 ---
 Chris Gilland
 
 Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland
 On 10/24/2022 4:06 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
> Chris,
> Once your shock (beyond belief) wears off, you should consider the fact 
> that Avid posts compatibility data on their website and Pro Tools users 
> are used to the fact that upgrading an OS before Pro Tools supports it is 
> not recommended, not to mention somewhat risky. People do, however, try 
> things out on a separate machine or partition just to experiment. Brace 
> yourself (so that you're not shocked) when the question of whether or not 
> to upgrade to Ventura comes up for months to come and users will 
> repeatedly be pointed toward the compatibility chart on the Avid site. 
> When the question inevitably comes up, steel yourself and share the 
> following link:
> https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Pro-Tools-Operating-System-Compatibility-Chart
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland > > wrote:
>> 
>> I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not even 
>> Slau, has written 

Re: The only problem I'm finding: was: Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Ronald J. Glaser]

I am glad you found these bugs chris, because when they do get fixed that will 
be a great help to us all.

Ron.

> On Oct 24, 2022, at 11:31 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> OK. I'm sorry. Yes. It did come off a bit rudely, but I understand now.
> 
> 
> 
> On that note, I did! take the plunge. I'm not ready yet to downgrade, as 
> things look well... O, Kayyy, and I guess we can discuss it here being 
> Ventura now is in public release, just with the understanding that everyone 
> knows that this is technically not yet supported fully, so do at your own 
> risk, but the track list table seems broken in Ventura with 2022.9, and I 
> didn't know if you and other accessibility testers were aware of it. It's not 
> a dealbreaker for me though, as there are a few work arounds.
> 
> 
> 
> Avid is so big of an industry, I'd not even remotely know where to start with 
> contacting people there to give the feedback. Here are the more specifics 
> though.
> 
> 
> 
> I see in the mix and edit windows both the track list table. But, when I 
> interact with it, if I try pressing VO+Space on any of the tracks, that track 
> gets selected, even though you don't hear the little click like you normally 
> would when hitting VO+Space. The issue is however, when trying to select 
> multiple tracks, as soon as you hit VO+Space on another track, the previous 
> selection goes away. So for example, say you had tracks 1, and tracks 2. If I 
> hit vo+space on track 1, it's now selected only. I now VO+down arrow to track 
> 2 and hit VO+Space. The expected behavior would be that now, track 1 and! 
> track 2 both would be selected. In reality though, only track 2 is now 
> selected. If you go back to track 1 and do a VO+Space, now, track 1 is 
> selected again, but not track 2.
> 
> 
> 
> Before you ask, yes, CTRL+P and CTRL+Semi colon do work pretty reliably for 
> the most part, and adding shift to those seems to work selecting things 
> contiguously.
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I've found to do it otherwise noncontigulously is to use my 
> actual mouse trackpad, and literally command+click each track one by one to 
> toggle it from selected to nonselected or vice versa. Looking in the Avid 
> forums, it appears that this is the official way sighted people do it, and 
> yes. That way seems to be working totally consistently.
> 
> 
> 
> If this isn't known already, is there any Avid people we can push it to so 
> that this gets fixed by the time it does go official?
> 
> 
> 
> Chris.
> 
> ---
> Chris Gilland
> 
> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland
> On 10/24/2022 7:00 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>> You did nothing wrong at all. I was merely poking a little fun at the fact 
>> that, despite your disclaimer, you do tend to be overly dramatic with the 
>> "Chocked beyond belief" type of comment. Sorry, but wouldn't you agree that 
>> such a statement is just a wee bit over the top? Again, I'm just making 
>> light of it and I hope you can see the light-hearted humor in it. Helping is 
>> a good thing, of course and it's a good thing to point out the obvious 
>> sometimes. It's all good. Don't take offense. I'm just funnin' with you :)
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2022, at 4:20 PM, Christopher Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Goodness, Slau. I'm sorry! Not to be rude/overdramatic here, but I thought 
>>> I was doing a good thing, helping. I guess not though. Jesus Christ! Thank 
>>> you for the link though.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Chris Gilland
>>> 
>>> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland
>>> On 10/24/2022 4:06 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
 Chris,
 Once your shock (beyond belief) wears off, you should consider the fact 
 that Avid posts compatibility data on their website and Pro Tools users 
 are used to the fact that upgrading an OS before Pro Tools supports it is 
 not recommended, not to mention somewhat risky. People do, however, try 
 things out on a separate machine or partition just to experiment. Brace 
 yourself (so that you're not shocked) when the question of whether or not 
 to upgrade to Ventura comes up for months to come and users will 
 repeatedly be pointed toward the compatibility chart on the Avid site. 
 When the question inevitably comes up, steel yourself and share the 
 following link:
 https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Pro-Tools-Operating-System-Compatibility-Chart
 
 
 
> On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland  > wrote:
> 
> I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not even 
> Slau, has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At least, not 
> that I've seen.
> 
> Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This means OS 
> Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.
> 
> Along with this, we may even be getting 

The only problem I'm finding: was: Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Christopher Gilland]

OK. I'm sorry. Yes. It did come off a bit rudely, but I understand now.


On that note, I did! take the plunge. I'm not ready yet to downgrade, as 
things look well... O, Kayyy, and I guess we can discuss it here being 
Ventura now is in public release, just with the understanding that 
everyone knows that this is technically not yet supported fully, so do 
at your own risk, but the track list table seems broken in Ventura with 
2022.9, and I didn't know if you and other accessibility testers were 
aware of it. It's not a dealbreaker for me though, as there are a few 
work arounds.



Avid is so big of an industry, I'd not even remotely know where to start 
with contacting people there to give the feedback. Here are the more 
specifics though.



I see in the mix and edit windows both the track list table. But, when I 
interact with it, if I try pressing VO+Space on any of the tracks, that 
track gets selected, even though you don't hear the little click like 
you normally would when hitting VO+Space. The issue is however, when 
trying to select multiple tracks, as soon as you hit VO+Space on another 
track, the previous selection goes away. So for example, say you had 
tracks 1, and tracks 2. If I hit vo+space on track 1, it's now selected 
only. I now VO+down arrow to track 2 and hit VO+Space. The expected 
behavior would be that now, track 1 and! track 2 both would be selected. 
In reality though, only track 2 is now selected. If you go back to track 
1 and do a VO+Space, now, track 1 is selected again, but not track 2.



Before you ask, yes, CTRL+P and CTRL+Semi colon do work pretty reliably 
for the most part, and adding shift to those seems to work selecting 
things contiguously.



The only way I've found to do it otherwise noncontigulously is to use my 
actual mouse trackpad, and literally command+click each track one by one 
to toggle it from selected to nonselected or vice versa. Looking in the 
Avid forums, it appears that this is the official way sighted people do 
it, and yes. That way seems to be working totally consistently.



If this isn't known already, is there any Avid people we can push it to 
so that this gets fixed by the time it does go official?



Chris.

---
Chris Gilland

Youtube:http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland

On 10/24/2022 7:00 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:

Hi Chris,
You did nothing wrong at all. I was merely poking a little fun at the 
fact that, despite your disclaimer, you do tend to be overly dramatic 
with the "Chocked beyond belief" type of comment. Sorry, but wouldn't 
you agree that such a statement is just a wee bit over the top? Again, 
I'm just making light of it and I hope you can see the light-hearted 
humor in it. Helping is a good thing, of course and it's a good thing 
to point out the obvious sometimes. It's all good. Don't take offense. 
I'm just funnin' with you :)



On Oct 24, 2022, at 4:20 PM, Christopher Gilland 
 wrote:


Goodness, Slau. I'm sorry! Not to be rude/overdramatic here, but I 
thought I was doing a good thing, helping. I guess not though. Jesus 
Christ! Thank you for the link though.



Chris.

---
Chris Gilland

Youtube:http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland
On 10/24/2022 4:06 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:

Chris,
Once your shock (beyond belief) wears off, you should consider the 
fact that Avid posts compatibility data on their website and Pro 
Tools users are used to the fact that upgrading an OS before Pro 
Tools supports it is not recommended, not to mention somewhat risky. 
People do, however, try things out on a separate machine or 
partition just to experiment. Brace yourself (so that you're not 
shocked) when the question of whether or not to upgrade to Ventura 
comes up for months to come and users will repeatedly be pointed 
toward the compatibility chart on the Avid site. When the question 
inevitably comes up, steel yourself and share the following link:

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Pro-Tools-Operating-System-Compatibility-Chart



On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland 
 wrote:


I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not 
even Slau, has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At 
least, not that I've seen.


Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This 
means OS Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.


Along with this, we may even be getting the official iPadOS 16, 
though I'm more here to focus on the mac.


It's important to note that the update today for Ventura is *not* a 
beta... Not even a public beta. It's the official release.


That being said, however, doesn't mean that just because the update 
is out, you immediately should jump for joy with excitement, "it's 
here, it's here,

it's here, finally!"

Let me say this: During the beta cicle, neither myself nor others 
could say much due to nondisclosure NDA agreements. There are 
probably still things privately
being tested which people are on NDA 

Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Slau Halatyn]

Hi Chris,
You did nothing wrong at all. I was merely poking a little fun at the fact 
that, despite your disclaimer, you do tend to be overly dramatic with the 
"Chocked beyond belief" type of comment. Sorry, but wouldn't you agree that 
such a statement is just a wee bit over the top? Again, I'm just making light 
of it and I hope you can see the light-hearted humor in it. Helping is a good 
thing, of course and it's a good thing to point out the obvious sometimes. It's 
all good. Don't take offense. I'm just funnin' with you :)


> On Oct 24, 2022, at 4:20 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Goodness, Slau. I'm sorry! Not to be rude/overdramatic here, but I thought I 
> was doing a good thing, helping. I guess not though. Jesus Christ! Thank you 
> for the link though.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris.
> 
> ---
> Chris Gilland
> 
> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland 
> 
> On 10/24/2022 4:06 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>> Chris,
>> Once your shock (beyond belief) wears off, you should consider the fact that 
>> Avid posts compatibility data on their website and Pro Tools users are used 
>> to the fact that upgrading an OS before Pro Tools supports it is not 
>> recommended, not to mention somewhat risky. People do, however, try things 
>> out on a separate machine or partition just to experiment. Brace yourself 
>> (so that you're not shocked) when the question of whether or not to upgrade 
>> to Ventura comes up for months to come and users will repeatedly be pointed 
>> toward the compatibility chart on the Avid site. When the question 
>> inevitably comes up, steel yourself and share the following link:
>> https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Pro-Tools-Operating-System-Compatibility-Chart
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not even 
>>> Slau, has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At least, not that 
>>> I've seen.
>>> 
>>> Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This means OS 
>>> Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.
>>> 
>>> Along with this, we may even be getting the official iPadOS 16, though I'm 
>>> more here to focus on the mac.
>>> 
>>> It's important to note that the update today for Ventura is *not* a beta... 
>>> Not even a public beta. It's the official release.
>>> 
>>> That being said, however, doesn't mean that just because the update is out, 
>>> you immediately should jump for joy with excitement, "it's here, it's here,
>>> it's here, finally!"
>>> 
>>> Let me say this: During the beta cicle, neither myself nor others could say 
>>> much due to nondisclosure NDA agreements. There are probably still things 
>>> privately
>>> being tested which people are on NDA regarding; they most likely probably 
>>> can't even disclose they are! testing in the first place, so it's most 
>>> likely
>>> probably a waist of your time to ask around.
>>> 
>>> What I'd say is, check, check, check, and oh did I mention, check! And by 
>>> the way, check! OK, you get my point.
>>> 
>>> The bottom line is, will things work with Ventura? Prr'rrobbably, yes. You 
>>> should! key word, should! be fine as far as DAW's like Logic, Reaper, 
>>> ProTools,
>>> etc. But! that being said, be careful. The bigger concern is plugins and 
>>> such.
>>> 
>>> For new users just getting on the bandwaggon with all this stuff, let me be 
>>> very black and white crystal clear and maybe even a bit direct with you. 
>>> Even
>>> though this would be an official release, you still do this at your own 
>>> risk. A lot of developers haven't yet officially, and that's the key word 
>>> here,
>>> officially, declared and certified that their software is fully compatible. 
>>> I definitely don't think Avid has with ProTools.
>>> 
>>> Also note that just because a DAW launches and works in Ventura for the 
>>> most part doesn't mean it's fully compatible. Depending on your current 
>>> software,
>>> and current hardware setup, you might luck out. Things for you may work 
>>> flawlessly. But then, the next Joe Bird from down the street may have a 
>>> totally
>>> different setup configuration. He/She/They try installing Ventura, and it 
>>> wind up being an absolute utter dreadful nightmare.
>>> 
>>> If you have another secondary mac you can try things with, it would be very 
>>> advisable to try Ventura there before putting it on your main production 
>>> machine.
>>> Once you know that it works OK for your environment, then you could migrate 
>>> things over slowly little by little to your main machine. The reason
>>> I say slowly little by little is that if, hypothetically something does 
>>> break, you'll remember the last thing in steps you did, and either 

Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Christopher Gilland]

Goodness, Slau. I'm sorry! Not to be rude/overdramatic here, but I 
thought I was doing a good thing, helping. I guess not though. Jesus 
Christ! Thank you for the link though.



Chris.

---
Chris Gilland

Youtube:http://www.youtube.com/c/chrisgilland

On 10/24/2022 4:06 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:

Chris,
Once your shock (beyond belief) wears off, you should consider the 
fact that Avid posts compatibility data on their website and Pro Tools 
users are used to the fact that upgrading an OS before Pro Tools 
supports it is not recommended, not to mention somewhat risky. People 
do, however, try things out on a separate machine or partition just to 
experiment. Brace yourself (so that you're not shocked) when the 
question of whether or not to upgrade to Ventura comes up for months 
to come and users will repeatedly be pointed toward the compatibility 
chart on the Avid site. When the question inevitably comes up, steel 
yourself and share the following link:

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Pro-Tools-Operating-System-Compatibility-Chart



On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland 
 wrote:


I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not 
even Slau, has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At 
least, not that I've seen.


Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This 
means OS Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.


Along with this, we may even be getting the official iPadOS 16, 
though I'm more here to focus on the mac.


It's important to note that the update today for Ventura is *not* a 
beta... Not even a public beta. It's the official release.


That being said, however, doesn't mean that just because the update 
is out, you immediately should jump for joy with excitement, "it's 
here, it's here,

it's here, finally!"

Let me say this: During the beta cicle, neither myself nor others 
could say much due to nondisclosure NDA agreements. There are 
probably still things privately
being tested which people are on NDA regarding; they most likely 
probably can't even disclose they are! testing in the first place, so 
it's most likely

probably a waist of your time to ask around.

What I'd say is, check, check, check, and oh did I mention, check! 
And by the way, check! OK, you get my point.


The bottom line is, will things work with Ventura? Prr'rrobbably, 
yes. You should! key word, should! be fine as far as DAW's like 
Logic, Reaper, ProTools,
etc. But! that being said, be careful. The bigger concern is plugins 
and such.


For new users just getting on the bandwaggon with all this stuff, let 
me be very black and white crystal clear and maybe even a bit direct 
with you. Even
though this would be an official release, you still do this at your 
own risk. A lot of developers haven't yet officially, and that's the 
key word here,
officially, declared and certified that their software is fully 
compatible. I definitely don't think Avid has with ProTools.


Also note that just because a DAW launches and works in Ventura for 
the most part doesn't mean it's fully compatible. Depending on your 
current software,
and current hardware setup, you might luck out. Things for you may 
work flawlessly. But then, the next Joe Bird from down the street may 
have a totally
different setup configuration. He/She/They try installing Ventura, 
and it wind up being an absolute utter dreadful nightmare.


If you have another secondary mac you can try things with, it would 
be very advisable to try Ventura there before putting it on your main 
production machine.
Once you know that it works OK for your environment, then you could 
migrate things over slowly little by little to your main machine. The 
reason
I say slowly little by little is that if, hypothetically something 
does break, you'll remember the last thing in steps you did, and 
either can undo it,
or can say, whoops, that's where things broke. Then you can evaluate, 
how important is it really that this thing that broke really is. Is 
it something
though completely broken you can tollerate, or is it a total 
dealbreaker. And hopefully if you're smart, because it broke first on 
your test machine/environment,

it's not like you brought your main machine to a halt, sota speak.

If you, like me, don't have a separate system, then you really only 
have 3 options: 1, best choice, don't do it at all, just wait until 
things are fully
certified to be compatible, 2. Do it, but be darn sure you have 
either a Time Machine backup of Monterrey, or wherever you were 
previously, or 3, use an
external hard disk, or find a way to partition your current disk 
without wiping it and dule boot between the 2 OS's until you know 
things totally are safe.


In conclusion, I'm simply just saying, be really really really 
careful today! Just because the update is there doesn't mean you just 
have to have it right

away. If it means making or breaking your job, then make it.

My 

Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Slau Halatyn]

Chris,
Once your shock (beyond belief) wears off, you should consider the fact that 
Avid posts compatibility data on their website and Pro Tools users are used to 
the fact that upgrading an OS before Pro Tools supports it is not recommended, 
not to mention somewhat risky. People do, however, try things out on a separate 
machine or partition just to experiment. Brace yourself (so that you're not 
shocked) when the question of whether or not to upgrade to Ventura comes up for 
months to come and users will repeatedly be pointed toward the compatibility 
chart on the Avid site. When the question inevitably comes up, steel yourself 
and share the following link:
https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Pro-Tools-Operating-System-Compatibility-Chart
 




> On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not even Slau, 
> has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At least, not that I've 
> seen.
> 
> Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This means OS 
> Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.
> 
> Along with this, we may even be getting the official iPadOS 16, though I'm 
> more here to focus on the mac.
> 
> It's important to note that the update today for Ventura is *not* a beta... 
> Not even a public beta. It's the official release.
> 
> That being said, however, doesn't mean that just because the update is out, 
> you immediately should jump for joy with excitement, "it's here, it's here,
> it's here, finally!"
> 
> Let me say this: During the beta cicle, neither myself nor others could say 
> much due to nondisclosure NDA agreements. There are probably still things 
> privately
> being tested which people are on NDA regarding; they most likely probably 
> can't even disclose they are! testing in the first place, so it's most likely
> probably a waist of your time to ask around.
> 
> What I'd say is, check, check, check, and oh did I mention, check! And by the 
> way, check! OK, you get my point.
> 
> The bottom line is, will things work with Ventura? Prr'rrobbably, yes. You 
> should! key word, should! be fine as far as DAW's like Logic, Reaper, 
> ProTools,
> etc. But! that being said, be careful. The bigger concern is plugins and such.
> 
> For new users just getting on the bandwaggon with all this stuff, let me be 
> very black and white crystal clear and maybe even a bit direct with you. Even
> though this would be an official release, you still do this at your own risk. 
> A lot of developers haven't yet officially, and that's the key word here,
> officially, declared and certified that their software is fully compatible. I 
> definitely don't think Avid has with ProTools.
> 
> Also note that just because a DAW launches and works in Ventura for the most 
> part doesn't mean it's fully compatible. Depending on your current software,
> and current hardware setup, you might luck out. Things for you may work 
> flawlessly. But then, the next Joe Bird from down the street may have a 
> totally
> different setup configuration. He/She/They try installing Ventura, and it 
> wind up being an absolute utter dreadful nightmare.
> 
> If you have another secondary mac you can try things with, it would be very 
> advisable to try Ventura there before putting it on your main production 
> machine.
> Once you know that it works OK for your environment, then you could migrate 
> things over slowly little by little to your main machine. The reason
> I say slowly little by little is that if, hypothetically something does 
> break, you'll remember the last thing in steps you did, and either can undo 
> it,
> or can say, whoops, that's where things broke. Then you can evaluate, how 
> important is it really that this thing that broke really is. Is it something
> though completely broken you can tollerate, or is it a total dealbreaker. And 
> hopefully if you're smart, because it broke first on your test 
> machine/environment,
> it's not like you brought your main machine to a halt, sota speak.
> 
> If you, like me, don't have a separate system, then you really only have 3 
> options: 1, best choice, don't do it at all, just wait until things are fully
> certified to be compatible, 2. Do it, but be darn sure you have either a Time 
> Machine backup of Monterrey, or wherever you were previously, or 3, use an
> external hard disk, or find a way to partition your current disk without 
> wiping it and dule boot between the 2 OS's until you know things totally are 
> safe.
> 
> In conclusion, I'm simply just saying, be really really really careful today! 
> Just because the update is there doesn't mean you just have to have it right
> away. If it means making or breaking your job, then make it.
> 
> My mamma  always told me, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. 

Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[igna]

Another option is to beta test the mac beta on a separate partition. I've 
tested all my setup and it all works without a hitch, daw, plug ins, etc. 
However this is a commun thing I do before upgrading, I always install either 
the beta, or the public release of the os onto a separate apfs volume. If 
things work as they should and nothing is broken, then i'll update my main 
system.

Regards,
Igna

> On 24/10/2022, at 1:11 PM, Rory McDonald  wrote:
> 
> Its pretty common knowledge amongst pro tools users that you should hold off 
> on updating until avid send out a compatible version...
> What do I know though I'm still on Catalina. 
> 
> Rory
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not even 
>> Slau, has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At least, not that 
>> I've seen.
>> 
>> Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This means OS 
>> Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.
>> 
>> Along with this, we may even be getting the official iPadOS 16, though I'm 
>> more here to focus on the mac.
>> 
>> It's important to note that the update today for Ventura is *not* a beta... 
>> Not even a public beta. It's the official release.
>> 
>> That being said, however, doesn't mean that just because the update is out, 
>> you immediately should jump for joy with excitement, "it's here, it's here,
>> it's here, finally!"
>> 
>> Let me say this: During the beta cicle, neither myself nor others could say 
>> much due to nondisclosure NDA agreements. There are probably still things 
>> privately
>> being tested which people are on NDA regarding; they most likely probably 
>> can't even disclose they are! testing in the first place, so it's most likely
>> probably a waist of your time to ask around.
>> 
>> What I'd say is, check, check, check, and oh did I mention, check! And by 
>> the way, check! OK, you get my point.
>> 
>> The bottom line is, will things work with Ventura? Prr'rrobbably, yes. You 
>> should! key word, should! be fine as far as DAW's like Logic, Reaper, 
>> ProTools,
>> etc. But! that being said, be careful. The bigger concern is plugins and 
>> such.
>> 
>> For new users just getting on the bandwaggon with all this stuff, let me be 
>> very black and white crystal clear and maybe even a bit direct with you. Even
>> though this would be an official release, you still do this at your own 
>> risk. A lot of developers haven't yet officially, and that's the key word 
>> here,
>> officially, declared and certified that their software is fully compatible. 
>> I definitely don't think Avid has with ProTools.
>> 
>> Also note that just because a DAW launches and works in Ventura for the most 
>> part doesn't mean it's fully compatible. Depending on your current software,
>> and current hardware setup, you might luck out. Things for you may work 
>> flawlessly. But then, the next Joe Bird from down the street may have a 
>> totally
>> different setup configuration. He/She/They try installing Ventura, and it 
>> wind up being an absolute utter dreadful nightmare.
>> 
>> If you have another secondary mac you can try things with, it would be very 
>> advisable to try Ventura there before putting it on your main production 
>> machine.
>> Once you know that it works OK for your environment, then you could migrate 
>> things over slowly little by little to your main machine. The reason
>> I say slowly little by little is that if, hypothetically something does 
>> break, you'll remember the last thing in steps you did, and either can undo 
>> it,
>> or can say, whoops, that's where things broke. Then you can evaluate, how 
>> important is it really that this thing that broke really is. Is it something
>> though completely broken you can tollerate, or is it a total dealbreaker. 
>> And hopefully if you're smart, because it broke first on your test 
>> machine/environment,
>> it's not like you brought your main machine to a halt, sota speak.
>> 
>> If you, like me, don't have a separate system, then you really only have 3 
>> options: 1, best choice, don't do it at all, just wait until things are fully
>> certified to be compatible, 2. Do it, but be darn sure you have either a 
>> Time Machine backup of Monterrey, or wherever you were previously, or 3, use 
>> an
>> external hard disk, or find a way to partition your current disk without 
>> wiping it and dule boot between the 2 OS's until you know things totally are 
>> safe.
>> 
>> In conclusion, I'm simply just saying, be really really really careful 
>> today! Just because the update is there doesn't mean you just have to have 
>> it right
>> away. If it means making or breaking your job, then make it.
>> 
>> My mamma  always told me, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. LOL!
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.

Re: Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Rory McDonald]

Its pretty common knowledge amongst pro tools users that you should hold off on 
updating until avid send out a compatible version...
What do I know though I'm still on Catalina. 

Rory

> On Oct 24, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not even 
> Slau, has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At least, not that 
> I've seen.
> 
> Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This means OS 
> Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.
> 
> Along with this, we may even be getting the official iPadOS 16, though I'm 
> more here to focus on the mac.
> 
> It's important to note that the update today for Ventura is *not* a beta... 
> Not even a public beta. It's the official release.
> 
> That being said, however, doesn't mean that just because the update is out, 
> you immediately should jump for joy with excitement, "it's here, it's here,
> it's here, finally!"
> 
> Let me say this: During the beta cicle, neither myself nor others could say 
> much due to nondisclosure NDA agreements. There are probably still things 
> privately
> being tested which people are on NDA regarding; they most likely probably 
> can't even disclose they are! testing in the first place, so it's most likely
> probably a waist of your time to ask around.
> 
> What I'd say is, check, check, check, and oh did I mention, check! And by the 
> way, check! OK, you get my point.
> 
> The bottom line is, will things work with Ventura? Prr'rrobbably, yes. You 
> should! key word, should! be fine as far as DAW's like Logic, Reaper, 
> ProTools,
> etc. But! that being said, be careful. The bigger concern is plugins and such.
> 
> For new users just getting on the bandwaggon with all this stuff, let me be 
> very black and white crystal clear and maybe even a bit direct with you. Even
> though this would be an official release, you still do this at your own risk. 
> A lot of developers haven't yet officially, and that's the key word here,
> officially, declared and certified that their software is fully compatible. I 
> definitely don't think Avid has with ProTools.
> 
> Also note that just because a DAW launches and works in Ventura for the most 
> part doesn't mean it's fully compatible. Depending on your current software,
> and current hardware setup, you might luck out. Things for you may work 
> flawlessly. But then, the next Joe Bird from down the street may have a 
> totally
> different setup configuration. He/She/They try installing Ventura, and it 
> wind up being an absolute utter dreadful nightmare.
> 
> If you have another secondary mac you can try things with, it would be very 
> advisable to try Ventura there before putting it on your main production 
> machine.
> Once you know that it works OK for your environment, then you could migrate 
> things over slowly little by little to your main machine. The reason
> I say slowly little by little is that if, hypothetically something does 
> break, you'll remember the last thing in steps you did, and either can undo 
> it,
> or can say, whoops, that's where things broke. Then you can evaluate, how 
> important is it really that this thing that broke really is. Is it something
> though completely broken you can tollerate, or is it a total dealbreaker. And 
> hopefully if you're smart, because it broke first on your test 
> machine/environment,
> it's not like you brought your main machine to a halt, sota speak.
> 
> If you, like me, don't have a separate system, then you really only have 3 
> options: 1, best choice, don't do it at all, just wait until things are fully
> certified to be compatible, 2. Do it, but be darn sure you have either a Time 
> Machine backup of Monterrey, or wherever you were previously, or 3, use an
> external hard disk, or find a way to partition your current disk without 
> wiping it and dule boot between the 2 OS's until you know things totally are 
> safe.
> 
> In conclusion, I'm simply just saying, be really really really careful today! 
> Just because the update is there doesn't mean you just have to have it right
> away. If it means making or breaking your job, then make it.
> 
> My mamma  always told me, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. LOL!
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptaccess/7998edf8-669d-880d-76bc-59785883f760%40gmail.com.

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Updates: Adhere to this gentle warning

[Christopher Gilland]

I'm absolutely shocked beyond belief that not a single person, not even 
Slau, has written in on the list about this. as of yet. At least, not 
that I've seen.


Remember that today for us Mac users is mager upgrade time. This means 
OS Monterrey is getting an upgrade officially to OS 13 Ventura.


Along with this, we may even be getting the official iPadOS 16, though 
I'm more here to focus on the mac.


It's important to note that the update today for Ventura is *not* a 
beta... Not even a public beta. It's the official release.


That being said, however, doesn't mean that just because the update is 
out, you immediately should jump for joy with excitement, "it's here, 
it's here,

it's here, finally!"

Let me say this: During the beta cicle, neither myself nor others could 
say much due to nondisclosure NDA agreements. There are probably still 
things privately
being tested which people are on NDA regarding; they most likely 
probably can't even disclose they are! testing in the first place, so 
it's most likely

probably a waist of your time to ask around.

What I'd say is, check, check, check, and oh did I mention, check! And 
by the way, check! OK, you get my point.


The bottom line is, will things work with Ventura? Prr'rrobbably, yes. 
You should! key word, should! be fine as far as DAW's like Logic, 
Reaper, ProTools,
etc. But! that being said, be careful. The bigger concern is plugins and 
such.


For new users just getting on the bandwaggon with all this stuff, let me 
be very black and white crystal clear and maybe even a bit direct with 
you. Even
though this would be an official release, you still do this at your own 
risk. A lot of developers haven't yet officially, and that's the key 
word here,
officially, declared and certified that their software is fully 
compatible. I definitely don't think Avid has with ProTools.


Also note that just because a DAW launches and works in Ventura for the 
most part doesn't mean it's fully compatible. Depending on your current 
software,
and current hardware setup, you might luck out. Things for you may work 
flawlessly. But then, the next Joe Bird from down the street may have a 
totally
different setup configuration. He/She/They try installing Ventura, and 
it wind up being an absolute utter dreadful nightmare.


If you have another secondary mac you can try things with, it would be 
very advisable to try Ventura there before putting it on your main 
production machine.
Once you know that it works OK for your environment, then you could 
migrate things over slowly little by little to your main machine. The reason
I say slowly little by little is that if, hypothetically something does 
break, you'll remember the last thing in steps you did, and either can 
undo it,
or can say, whoops, that's where things broke. Then you can evaluate, 
how important is it really that this thing that broke really is. Is it 
something
though completely broken you can tollerate, or is it a total 
dealbreaker. And hopefully if you're smart, because it broke first on 
your test machine/environment,

it's not like you brought your main machine to a halt, sota speak.

If you, like me, don't have a separate system, then you really only have 
3 options: 1, best choice, don't do it at all, just wait until things 
are fully
certified to be compatible, 2. Do it, but be darn sure you have either a 
Time Machine backup of Monterrey, or wherever you were previously, or 3, 
use an
external hard disk, or find a way to partition your current disk without 
wiping it and dule boot between the 2 OS's until you know things totally 
are safe.


In conclusion, I'm simply just saying, be really really really careful 
today! Just because the update is there doesn't mean you just have to 
have it right

away. If it means making or breaking your job, then make it.

My mamma  always told me, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. LOL!

Chris.


--
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Accessibility" group.
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