Hi Gannon,
[Sorry for the delay, your mail accidentally skipped my inbox!]
My question can be rephrased thus: Does the theoretical size of the target
audience for a distributed affordance matter ?
The audience size doesn't matter, as each user has personal preferences.
The idea is that the
On 11/25/13 6:47 PM, mike amundsen wrote:
snipI still believe that one can talk about REST concepts accurately
and fluently without the word Affordance ./snip
and who said it could not? why are you saying this kind of stuff here?
As you can see from the recent exchange between Ruben and I,
Hi Kingsley,
Are words such as enables , facilitates etc.. so bad that we can no
longer make statements like:
a/ enables name to address indirection in HTML via URIs? Basically, that it
enables exploitation URI serve dually as a document name and a content access
address i.e., a
On 11/25/13 8:22 AM, Ruben Verborgh wrote:
Hi Kingsley,
Are words such as enables , facilitates etc.. so bad that we can no longer
make statements like:
a/ enables name to address indirection in HTML via URIs? Basically, that it
enables exploitation URI serve dually as a document name and a
Hi Kingsley,
In my talks, I say that enabling is stronger than affording.
Do you have a link to the talk in question?
Well, it's something I always mention verbally, so enabling will not be on
the slides.
Nevertheless, here's a presentation on it for a wide audience:
On 11/25/13 2:33 PM, Ruben Verborgh wrote:
Hi Kingsley,
In my talks, I say that enabling is stronger than affording.
Do you have a link to the talk in question?
Well, it's something I always mention verbally, so enabling will not be on
the slides.
Nevertheless, here's a presentation on it
On Mon, 11/25/13, Ruben Verborgh ruben.verbo...@ugent.be wrote:
Subject: Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF
To: Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com
Cc: public-lod Data public-lod@w3.org
Date: Monday, November 25, 2013, 1:33 PM
Hi Kingsley,
In my talks, I say that enabling
Hi Kingsley
Note, Affordance doesn't show up in any of the standard dictionaries I have
access to. That said, it does have a Wiktionary entry [1], but that
particular definition doesn't actually make a case for it being immutable or
devoid of an alternative :-)
Norman's The Design of
Hi Gannon,
Are you thinking in terms of IPv4 or IPv6 ?
I'm sorry but I lost you here… how can I IPv4/6 relate to this?
Best,
Ruben
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordance
mamund
+1.859.757.1449
skype: mca.amundsen
http://amundsen.com/blog/
http://twitter.com/mamund
https://github.com/mamund
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mamund
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Ruben Verborgh ruben.verbo...@ugent.bewrote:
Hi Kingsley
Note,
TBL needs a 6th Star.
On Mon, 11/25/13, Ruben Verborgh ruben.verbo...@ugent.be wrote:
Subject: Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF
To: Gannon Dick gannon_d...@yahoo.com
Cc: public-lod Data public-lod@w3.org
Date: Monday, November 25, 2013, 4
On 11/25/13 5:03 PM, Ruben Verborgh wrote:
Hi Kingsley
Note, Affordance doesn't show up in any of the standard dictionaries I have
access to. That said, it does have a Wiktionary entry [1], but that particular definition
doesn't actually make a case for it being immutable or devoid of an
snipI still believe that one can talk about REST concepts accurately and
fluently without the word Affordance ./snip
and who said it could not? why are you saying this kind of stuff here?
if you don't want to use this word, don't. are you trying to tell me i
cannot use it?
mamund
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Markus Lanthaler
markus.lantha...@gmx.net wrote:
+public-hydra
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:11 PM, Mark Baker wrote:
Cool. Very similar to RDF Forms in important ways, though I think RDF
Forms internalizes some useful features that Hydra could benefit
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:43 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 11/21/13 4:18 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Anyway, do you have a URL for a Turtle doc?
No, as I said, at the moment I don't serve a Turtle version. Of
course you
can use a translator to turn the JSON-LD into Turtle (but you
Markus,
in the Linked Data context, what is the difference between
identifier and hyperlink? Last time I checked, URIs were opaque
and there was no such distinction.
Martynas
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Markus Lanthaler
markus.lantha...@gmx.net wrote:
+public-hydra since there are a
Hey Ruben,
regarding RFC6570, I'm not planning to adopt it, since the
specification is better suited for building URIs, not matching them
(1.4 Limitations): In general, regular expression languages are
better suited for variable matching
I'm using JAX-RS syntax since it can be used for matching
Hi Martynas,
On Friday, November 22, 2013 3:12 PM, Martynas Jusevičius wrote:
Markus,
in the Linked Data context, what is the difference between
identifier and hyperlink? Last time I checked, URIs were opaque
and there was no such distinction.
These things quickly turn into philosophical
snip
A browser for example doesn't render the string
http://example.com/343-224122 as a clickable link unless you mark it up as one
using the a tag.
/snip
Yep, the A element is the thing that _affords_ clicking. it is the A
element which is the affordance.
Affordances don't just supply
Mike,
so if RDF representation includes a triple such as
http://example.com/x a foaf:Image .
is that an affordance? Because that gives me enough information to
render it as img src=http://example.com/x/.
By the way, nothing stops me from having a href=isbn:343-224122
either. It will
again - to the list!
Yes,
http://example.com/x a foaf:Image .
is an affordance.
of course, that affordance (like HTML.IMG) relies a number of expectations
which most all of us recognize when we see it.
From the network perspective, the expectations are
sigh... copying to the list this time.
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM, mike amundsen mam...@yahoo.com wrote:
yep. In past writing/speaking I've drawn a line from James Gibson through
Donald Norman and up to Roy Fielding[1]
[1] http://amundsen.com/blog/archives/1109
mamund
On 11/22/13 3:10 PM, mike amundsen wrote:
sigh... copying to the list this time.
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM, mike amundsen mam...@yahoo.com
mailto:mam...@yahoo.com wrote:
yep. In past writing/speaking I've drawn a line from James Gibson
through Donald Norman and up to Roy
Hi Ruben,
You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]?
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 11:23:08 +, Ruben Verborgh wrote:
Do we have other approaches besides RDF Forms [1] to represent
hypermedia controls in RDF?
Basically, I'm looking for any of the following:
- representing
On 11/21/13 6:14 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Hi Ruben,
You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]?
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 11:23:08 +, Ruben Verborgh wrote:
Do we have other approaches besides RDF Forms [1] to represent
hypermedia controls in RDF?
Basically, I'm
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:06 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 11/21/13 7:33 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Sure.. it's included at the end of the spec [1 above] and also available
as standalone JSON-LD file:
http://purl.org/hydra/core
Note, there's a content negotiation problem
Hi Markus,
You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]?
Ah, there you are! Welcome ;-)
- representing hyperlinks in RDF (in addition to subject/object URLs)
hydra:Resource along with hydra:Link covers that: http://bit.ly/1b9IK32
And it does it the way I like:
Server: cloudflare-nginx
All fine at my end though so everything should work.
Not sure if it's of any help, but CloudFlare doesn't do content negotiation;
i.e., as soon as one representation is cached, it always serves that one,
regardless of any Accept headers sent by subsequent clients.
(And
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 6:14 AM, Markus Lanthaler
markus.lantha...@gmx.net wrote:
Hi Ruben,
You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]?
Cool. Very similar to RDF Forms in important ways, though I think RDF
Forms internalizes some useful features that Hydra could benefit
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:22 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 11/21/13 2:00 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:34 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
But I am looking for Turtle, hence:
curl -ILH Accept: text/turtlehttp://purl.org/hydra/core
:-)
Sure.. but the
On 11/21/13 1:01 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Awesome! Welcome on board:-)
[1]https://github.com/HydraCG/Specifications/issues/5
SeeAlso:
http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/id/entity/https/github.com/HydraCG/Specifications/issues
-- Linked Data URI for Hydra Issues on Github.
--
+public-hydra since there are a couple of things which we should look at
there as well
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:03 PM, Ruben Verborgh wrote:
- representing hyperlinks in RDF (in addition to subject/object
URLs)
hydra:Resource along with hydra:Link covers that:
On 11/21/13 4:18 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Anyway, do you have a URL for a Turtle doc?
No, as I said, at the moment I don't serve a Turtle version. Of course you
can use a translator to turn the JSON-LD into Turtle (but you know that)..
here's a link
http://bit.ly/hydra-core-ttl
just in
On 11/21/13 7:33 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
[1]http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/
[2]http://www.w3.org/community/hydra/
Markus,
Is there a JSON-LD or Turtle version of this vocabulary?
Sure.. it's included at the end of the spec [1 above] and also available as
standalone JSON-LD file:
Hi Kingsley,
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:16 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 11/21/13 6:14 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Hi Ruben,
You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]?
[...]
[1] http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/
[2]
+public-hydra
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:11 PM, Mark Baker wrote:
Cool. Very similar to RDF Forms in important ways, though I think RDF
Forms internalizes some useful features that Hydra could benefit from;
stripping out information that isn't required (or isn't an
optimization) for a
On 11/21/13 2:00 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:34 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 11/21/13 12:46 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: cloudflare-nginx
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:04:33 GMT
Content-Type: application/ld+json
All fine at my end though so
On 11/21/13 12:46 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: cloudflare-nginx
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:04:33 GMT
Content-Type: application/ld+json
All fine at my end though so everything should work. Or did I miss
something? Please note that there's no turtle serialization available
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:37 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 11/21/13 1:01 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Awesome! Welcome on board:-)
[1]https://github.com/HydraCG/Specifications/issues/5
SeeAlso:
http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/id/entity/https/github.com/HydraC
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:34 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 11/21/13 12:46 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: cloudflare-nginx
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:04:33 GMT
Content-Type: application/ld+json
All fine at my end though so everything should work. Or did I miss
On 11/21/13 7:33 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
Sure.. it's included at the end of the spec [1 above] and also available as
standalone JSON-LD file:
http://purl.org/hydra/core
Note, there's a content negotiation problem here, as shown by:
curl -ILH Accept: text/turtle
Dear all,
Do we have other approaches besides RDF Forms [1] to represent hypermedia
controls in RDF?
Basically, I’m looking for any of the following:
- representing hyperlinks in RDF (in addition to subject/object URLs)
- representing URI templates [2]
- representing forms (in the HTML sense)
I'm interested in the answers you get to the first and last of your
questions but the middle one I can do. The under used POWDER
Recommendation allows you to make statements about resources based on
URI patterns (with due semantic integrity [1]) - which may or may not be
useful to you. See
Ruben,
2 things I'm aware of and have implemented:
- URI templates: Linked Data API vocabulary
https://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/wiki/API_Vocabulary
Graphity reuses api:uriTemplate and api:itemTemplate to match request
URIs against ontology classes. The actual template syntax is reused
Hi Ruben,
I haven’t used it (or really read the spec) but you might be interested in
taking a look at the Linked Data Platform 1,2], which provides some patterns
for expressing create/update/delete hypermedia controls in RDF.
I’d be interested to hear what your specific use case is.
//Ed
[1]
Ruben, greetings.
On 2013 Nov 20, at 11:23, Ruben Verborgh wrote:
Do we have other approaches besides RDF Forms [1] to represent hypermedia
controls in RDF?
You _might_ find it interesting to read about HyTime (the Wikipedia page has
reasonable starting links
Hi Phil,
Thanks for the pointer. POWDER is definitely interesting and relevant,
but I’m a bit hesitant to apply regexing.
In general, I’m quite a fan of opaque URLs; that is, let the server maintain
full control.
While HTML GET forms are a level-breaker in that regard, I like the strictness
Hi Martynas,
- URI templates: Linked Data API vocabulary
https://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/wiki/API_Vocabulary
Cool, I do like that. Have you thought about extending to RFC6570?
Do you know about usage of this vocabulary?
The one thing that I like less is the notion of endpoints.
Hi Ed,
CC: Mark Baker,
I've actually been part of the LDP group;
I fully agreed with Mark's concern on the lack of hypermedia controls [1].
LDP is based on a set of agreements, not on a set of dynamic affordances.
Would have loved to see a proposal such as this one [2] make it,
but it was then
Hi Norman,
Interesting pointer, thanks, I'm amazed to see this existed for so long!
HyTime defines a set of hypertext-oriented element types that [let] document
authors to build hypertext and multimedia presentations in a standardized
way.
The issue is probably to integrate this on the RDF
Ahh, I see you are (at least) two steps ahead of me. Thanks for sending along
those references to previous conversation.
I’m still curious about your use case :-)
//Ed
On Nov 20, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Ruben Verborgh ruben.verbo...@ugent.be wrote:
Hi Ed,
CC: Mark Baker,
I've actually been
Hi Ed,
Forgot to answer this part:
I’d be interested to hear what your specific use case is.
In my research [1], I'm looking at giving machines the same affordances as
people.
Many things on today's Web cannot be done by machines due to a lack of
affordances.
While RDF allows to interpret
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