Le 20/07/2018 à 01:47, Victor Stinner a écrit :
>
> What is the image sent to contributors if we create a subgroup inside
> core developpers called "council"? What if we elect a new BDFL *for
> life*? Does it mean that even core developers judgment are no longer
> trusted, only the council
Le 20/07/2018 à 02:51, Ethan Furman a écrit :
> My first issue with this model is, as discussed above, a lack of a consistent
> vision. A BDFL is not just there to say,
> "this PEP is accepted," but also to say, "change this one piece here, remove
> that piece there, add this" -- definitely
On 20 July 2018 at 12:57, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hum. Let me try to explain my point differently. Currently, some
> people don't read PEPs just because at the end, only the single BDFL
> vote counts. What's the point of spending hours (if not days) on
> reading a long PEP and the long discussion
Excerpts from Paul Moore's message of 2018-07-20 13:14:49 +0100:
> On 20 July 2018 at 12:57, Victor Stinner wrote:
> > Hum. Let me try to explain my point differently. Currently, some
> > people don't read PEPs just because at the end, only the single BDFL
> > vote counts. What's the point of
Hi Ethan,
Thanks for your feedback!
2018-07-20 2:51 GMT+02:00 Ethan Furman :
>> I see that many people are eager to replace the old governance based
>> on a single BDFL with a new governance with a new BD(FL) and/or a
>> council. My problem is that I don't see any clear definition of the
>>
Excerpts from Antoine Pitrou's message of 2018-07-20 09:49:01 +0200:
>
> Le 20/07/2018 à 02:51, Ethan Furman a écrit :
> > My first issue with this model is, as discussed above, a lack of a
> > consistent vision. A BDFL is not just there to say,
> > "this PEP is accepted," but also to say,
On 18 July 2018 at 16:42, Chris Jerdonek wrote:
> I agree a name other than BDFL should be chosen, especially since (as
> I understand it) Guido is still BDFL but just taking a permanent
> vacation, and the name implies there should only be one.
>
> Also, if we're considering particular people, I
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 07:51 Nick Coghlan, wrote:
> On 18 July 2018 at 16:42, Chris Jerdonek wrote:
> > I agree a name other than BDFL should be chosen, especially since (as
> > I understand it) Guido is still BDFL but just taking a permanent
> > vacation, and the name implies there should only
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:37:03AM -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Paul Moore's message of 2018-07-20 13:14:49 +0100:
[...]
> > In contrast, I would imagine that people would continue to discuss
> > PEPs in exactly the same way that they currently do, so the result
> > would be that
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 09:59:39AM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
> Le 20/07/2018 à 01:47, Victor Stinner a écrit :
> >
> > What is the image sent to contributors if we create a subgroup inside
> > core developpers called "council"? What if we elect a new BDFL *for
> > life*? Does it mean that
Excerpts from Steven D'Aprano's message of 2018-07-21 02:32:02 +1000:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:37:03AM -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> > Excerpts from Paul Moore's message of 2018-07-20 13:14:49 +0100:
>
> [...]
> > > In contrast, I would imagine that people would continue to discuss
> > > PEPs
2018-07-20 22:42 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon :
> The leading proposal of a deadline to get governance model proposals in and
> deciding on a voting procedure is October 1. Do you need more time than
> that? And if so how much are you asking for?
Carol wrote "Proposals due by Sept 9, 2018 AOE". I'm
On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 at 14:59 Victor Stinner wrote:
> Please extend the deadline: next week, I will be at EuroPython (I
> don't think that I will have time to sit down and come up with
> something), and I'm (more or less) in holiday the whole month of
> August.
>
The leading proposal of a
On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 at 16:47 Victor Stinner wrote:
> or: Replace Dictatorship with Democracy.
> [SNIP]
>
>
> == What is the image send to the community and contributors? ==
>
> Last year, I mentored multiple contributors. What I learnt is that
> contributing to Python is much harder than what I
On Jul 20, 2018, at 00:49, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
> I find the PEP-delegate to be a powerful concept. Why wouldn't *every*
> PEP have a PEP-delegate? This way we don't need a BDFL anymore. We can
> discuss how to nominate PEP-delegates (Nick had an interesting proposal).
Because IMHO that
> On Jul 19, 2018, at 7:47 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
>
> It seems that the main question for a new governance is how to take a
> decision on PEPs (accept or reject them with some variants like
> Deferred). I read that core developers are unable to make a decision
> themselves (fail to reach a
On 20Jul2018 0858, Brett Cannon wrote:
While I'm purposefully staying out of this thread as my name is
currently so strongly associated with it and I don't want people
thinking I'm a megalomaniac, I will say that I see no reason why I
wouldn't get 50% time at Microsoft if I asked for it (I
Summary: appointing a BDFL or small council *does not* force them to do
all the work themselves.
On 20Jul2018 0457, Victor Stinner wrote:
mailing list (I'm talking about "+1" emails), before a formal and well
defined PEP is written ;-)
Until your new process arrives, "+1" emails are not
On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 at 15:23 Victor Stinner wrote:
> 2018-07-20 22:42 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon :
> > The leading proposal of a deadline to get governance model proposals in
> and
> > deciding on a voting procedure is October 1. Do you need more time than
> > that? And if so how much are you asking
Thanks all. I am glad that Victor likes October 1. :-)
So can we formalize the timeline proposed by Mariatta?
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 5:58 PM Mariatta Wijaya
wrote:
> As quick refresher, my proposed timeline is:
>
> Oct 1: Deadline for people to come up with proposals of governance model,
>
On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 at 16:25 Carol Willing wrote:
> Thanks all. I am glad that Victor likes October 1. :-)
>
> So can we formalize the timeline proposed by Mariatta?
>
Fine by me. Everyone who cares to comment seems to agree that Oct 1 is good
and I think the Dec 1 deadline is very reasonable.
2018-07-20 18:32 GMT+02:00 Steven D'Aprano :
> What happens when two trusted experts disagree and the voters don't have
> the expertise to tell which one is correct?
In my proposal, if no consensus can be found, the vote fails to reach
the majority, the PEP is rejected.
Usually, people disagree
2018-07-21 0:58 GMT+02:00 Mariatta Wijaya :
> Oct 1: Deadline for people to come up with proposals of governance model,
> candidates, and how to vote
> Dec 1: Deadline to choose a governance model, (and if possible, we choose
> the new leader(s) too)
What happens between October and December?
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 at 15:36 Nathaniel Smith wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 08:58 Brett Cannon wrote:
>> > While I'm purposefully staying out of this thread as my name is
>> > currently so strongly associated with it and I don't
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 08:58 Brett Cannon wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 07:51 Nick Coghlan, wrote:
>>
>> Guido was willing to do it for so long because Python was his
>> creation, and he grew into the increasing demands of the BDFL role as
>> time went by, but even he eventually reached
On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 at 15:36 Nathaniel Smith wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 08:58 Brett Cannon wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 20, 2018, 07:51 Nick Coghlan, wrote:
> >>
> >> Guido was willing to do it for so long because Python was his
> >> creation, and he grew into the increasing demands
On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 at 17:05 Victor Stinner wrote:
> 2018-07-21 0:58 GMT+02:00 Mariatta Wijaya :
> > Oct 1: Deadline for people to come up with proposals of governance model,
> > candidates, and how to vote
> > Dec 1: Deadline to choose a governance model, (and if possible, we choose
> > the new
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