Greg Ewing:
> But that won't help when you need to deal with third-party
> code that knows nothing about Python or its wrapped file
> objects, and calls the CRT (or one of the myriad extant
> CRTs, chosen at random:-) directly.
Can you explain exactly why there is a problem here? Its fairly
no
Martin v. Löwis:
> I don't think this would be good enough. I then also need a way to
> provide extension authors with an API that looks like the CRT, but
> isn't: they cannot realistically change all their code to use the
> wrapped objects. In a recent case, somebody tried to passed a FILE*
> to
Thank you, Martin and Stephen, for the suggestions and comments.
For your information:
We decided that all NumPy arrays of unicode strings will use UCS4 for
internal representation. When an element of the array is selected, a
unicodescalar (which inherits directly from the unicode builtin type
Jiwon Seo wrote:
> Then, is there any chance anonymous function - or closure - is
> supported in python 3.0 ? Or at least have a discussion about it?
That discussion appears to be closed (or, not really: everybody
can discuss, but it likely won't change anything).
> (IMHO, closure is very handy f
Greg Ewing wrote:
> As far as I can see, Microsoft have created an intractable
> mess here. Their solution of "compile your whole program
> with the same CRT" completely misses the possibility that
> the "whole program" may consist of disparate separately-
> written and separately-compiled parts, a
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Andrew Koenig]
>
>>Might I suggest that at least you consider using "hint" instead of "cue"?
>
> Personally, I prefer "cue" which my dictionary defines as "a signal, hint,
> or suggestion". The alternate definition of "a prompt for some action"
> applies equally well
Mark Edgington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> > That patch looks wrong. What does it mean to "run in a thread"?
> > All code runs in a thread, all the time: sometime, that thread
> > is the main thread.
> >
> > Furthermore, I can't see any presumed thread-unsafety in
Jiwon Seo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2/8/06, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Closures already exist in Python.
> >
> > >>> def foo(bar):
> > ... return lambda: bar + 1
> > ...
> > >>> a = foo(5)
> > >>> a()
> > 6
>
> Not in that we don't have anonymous function (or closure)
| From: Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
|| On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
||| And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
||| the name, would avoid all the heated discussion... :-)
||
|| Note that
On 2/8/06, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jiwon Seo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On 2/8/06, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
> >
My thought on lambda at the moment is that it's too VERBOSE.
If a syntax for anonymous functions is to pull its weight,
it needs to be *very* concise. The only time I ever consider
writing a function definition in-line is when the body is
extremely short, otherwise it's clearer to use a def instea
Armin Rigo wrote:
> This said, do we vote for __length_hint__ or __length_cue__? :-)
I prefer something containing "hint" rather than "cue"
because it more explicitly says what we mean.
I feel that __length_hint__ is a bit long, though.
We have __len__, not __length__, so maybe it should
be __le
Neil Hodgson wrote:
> You don't need to drop the CRT, just encapsulate it so there is one
> copy controlled by Python that hands out wrapped objects (file
> handles, file pointers, memory blocks, others?). These wrappers can
> only be manipulated through calls back to that owning code that then
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> I withdraw that idea. It appears that the platform SDK doesn't
> (any longer?) provide an import library for msvrt.dll, and
> Microsoft documents mscvrt as intended only for "system
> components".
Insofar as it forms a base on which other separately-
compiled pieces of co
I posted a message to the email-sig expressing my desire to change our
module naming scheme to conform to PEP 8. This would entail a bump in
the email version to 3.1, and would be included in Python 2.5. Of
course, the old names would still work, for at least one Python release.
All the response
On 2/8/06, Thomas Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 01:39:34PM -0800, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > On 2/8/06, Joao Macaiba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > 1. For a newbie in the Python core development, what is the best PEP to
> > > begin with ?
>
> > Wild guess? 308, but
[Armin Rigo]
> Hi Raymond,
. . .
> This means that _length_cue() is at the moment a special method, in the
> sense that Python can invoke it implicitely.
Okay, that makes sense. Go ahead and make the swap.
> This said, do we vote for __length_hint__ or __length_cue__? :-)
I prefer __length_cu
Not terrible. I think I may try re-working Medusa to use this.
Bill
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Jiwon Seo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 2/8/06, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
> > > the name, would avoid all the heated discussion... :-)
> >
>
On 2/8/06, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
> > the name, would avoid all the heated discussion... :-)
>
> Note that I'm not participating in any attempts to
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:42:39 +0100
Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Neal Norwitz wrote:
> > On 2/7/06, Christopher Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Twisted is wonderful, powerful, rich, and very large. Perhaps a
> >small > > subset could be carefully extracted
> >>
> >The s
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> That patch looks wrong. What does it mean to "run in a thread"?
> All code runs in a thread, all the time: sometime, that thread
> is the main thread.
>
> Furthermore, I can't see any presumed thread-unsafety in asynchat.
Ok, perhaps the notation could be improved, bu
Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
>> the name, would avoid all the heated discussion... :-)
>
> Note that I'm not participating in any attempts to "improve" l
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 01:39:34PM -0800, Brett Cannon wrote:
> On 2/8/06, Joao Macaiba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 1. For a newbie in the Python core development, what is the best PEP to
> > begin with ?
> Wild guess? 308, but that still requires changing the grammar and
> editing the AST co
Hi Raymond,
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 03:02:21PM -0500, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> IMHO, the "safety reasons" are imaginary -- the scenario would involve
> subclassing one of these builtin objects and attaching an identically named
> private method.
No, the senario applies to any user-defined ite
Martin v. Löwis:
> So ideally, Python should drop usage of the CRT entirely (but getting
> there will be a long process). Hopefully, P3k will drop usage of
> stdio for file objects, which will be a big step forward.
You don't need to drop the CRT, just encapsulate it so there is one
copy contro
[Joao Macaiba]
> 1. For a newbie in the Python core development, what is the best PEP to
> begin with ?
I recommend, PEP 308: Conditional Expressions
Raymond
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Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> To do that, we would need to compile and link with the SDK
> header files and import libraries, not with the ones that
> visual studio provides.
I withdraw that idea. It appears that the platform SDK doesn't
(any longer?) provide an import library for msvrt.dll, and
Micros
On 2/8/06, Joao Macaiba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi. I'm interested in doing an undergraduate project under some Python
> core PEP.
>
> I'm newbie to Python core. Program in C/C++.
>
> I've downloaded the sources with svn and now I'm studying it.
>
>
> There are 3 PEP accepted :
>
> . 308 : Con
Hi. I'm interested in doing an undergraduate project under some Python
core PEP.
I'm newbie to Python core. Program in C/C++.
I've downloaded the sources with svn and now I'm studying it.
There are 3 PEP accepted :
. 308 : Conditional Expressions
. 328 : Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Rela
Robert Brewer wrote:
> Community consensus on syntax is a pipe dream.
+1 QOTF
And trust me, it'll be in there, since I'm one of the summary writers. ;-)
STeVe
--
Grammar am for people who can't think for myself.
--- Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy
___
Py
El Sábado, 4 de Febrero de 2006 2:35, Giovanni Bajo escribió:
> Hello,
>
> my comments on the Path PEP:
>
> - Many methods contain the word 'path' in them. I suppose this is to help
> transition from the old library to the new library. But in the context of a
> new Python user, I don't think that P
On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 11:45 -0800, Keith Dart wrote:
> There are other, third-party, SMTP server objects available. You could
> always use one of those.
Very true. In fact, Twisted comes to the rescue again here. When I
needed to test Mailman's NNTP integration I could either spend several
wee
[Armin Rigo]
> It was replaced by an optional undocumented method called _length_cue(),
> which would be used to guess the number of remaining items in an
> iterator, for performance reasons.
>
> I'm worried about the name. There are now exactly two names that behave
> like a special method withou
Guido van Rossum wrote the following on 2006-02-08 at 10:07 PST:
===
> Note that I'm not participating in any attempts to "improve" lambda.
===
FWIW, I like lambda. No need to change it. Thank you.
--
-- ~
Keith Dart <[EMA
Barry Warsaw wrote the following on 2006-02-08 at 13:45 PST:
===
> Or the guy who needs to whip together an RFC-compliant minimal SMTP
> server to use in unit tests of some random Python implemented mailing
> list manager. Just fer instance. But still...
>
> > But I can't speak for how often thi
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>>How about (lambda x,y: x**y)?
>
>
> The purpose of this thread was to conserve brain-power by bringing the issue
> to a close. Instead, it is turning into syntax/renaming fest. May I
> suggest that this be moved to comp.lang.python and return only if a
> community
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> > How about (lambda x,y: x**y)?
>
> The purpose of this thread was to conserve brain-power by
> bringing the issue to a close. Instead, it is turning into
> syntax/renaming fest. May I suggest that this be moved to
> comp.lang.python and return only if a community con
Ronald Oussoren wrote:
> My explanation seems to be bad, I meant to say sharing extensions across
> different builds of the same Python version. One might install a normal
> unix build in /opt/python and a framework build in /Library/Frameworks.
Sorry, I didn't read your message carefully enough.
On Feb 8, 2006, at 11:02 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
> On 8-feb-2006, at 19:55, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>
>> Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote:
>>> Any thoughts? Should I go ahead and open a bug report (maybe with
>>> patch), or is this controversial?
>>
>> I can accept that the Mac does it diff
> How about (lambda x,y: x**y)?
The purpose of this thread was to conserve brain-power by bringing the issue
to a close. Instead, it is turning into syntax/renaming fest. May I
suggest that this be moved to comp.lang.python and return only if a
community consensus emerges from the thousands o
[Raymond Hettinger]
> ...
> The asymmetric handling of denormals by the atof() and ftoa() functions is
> why you see a difference. A consequence of that asymmetry is the breakdown
> of the expected eval(repr(f))==f invariant:
Just noting that such behavior is a violation of the 754 standard for
s
On 8-feb-2006, at 19:55, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote:
Any thoughts? Should I go ahead and open a bug report (maybe with
patch), or is this controversial?
I can accept that the Mac does it differently, although I think the
rationale for doing that is dangerous: y
On 2/8/06, Phillip J. Eby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 10:07 AM 2/8/2006 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
> > > the name, would avoid all the heated discussion... :-
Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote:
> Any thoughts? Should I go ahead and open a bug report (maybe with
> patch), or is this controversial?
You should only link with libpython if there really is a shared
libpython. In a standard Python installation, there is no libpython, but
instead, symbols are
On 2/8/06, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I understand that old style classes are slated to disappear in Python 3000.
> >
> > Does this mean that the following will be a syntax error :
> >
> > class Something:
> > pass
> >
> > *or* that instead
On 2/8/06, Fuzzyman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I understand that old style classes are slated to disappear in Python 3000.
>
> Does this mean that the following will be a syntax error :
>
> class Something:
> pass
>
> *or* that instead it will automatically inherit from object ?
The latter o
On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 10:24 -0800, Robert Brewer wrote:
> It'd be a huge loss for the random fellow who needs to write an email
> fixup proxy between a broken client and Exim in a couple of hours. ;)
Or the guy who needs to whip together an RFC-compliant minimal SMTP
server to use in unit tests o
Steve Holden wrote:
> In case the processing of events needed to block? If I'm processing web
> requests in an async* dispatch loop and a request needs the results of a
> (probably lengthy) database query in order to generate its output, how
> do I give the dispatcher control again to process th
Giovanni Bajo wrote:
>>I just came up with an idea how to resolve the VC versioning
>>problems for good: Python should link with mscvrt.dll (which
>>is part of the operating system), not with the CRT that the
>>compiler provides.
>
>
> Can you elaborate exactly on which versioning problems you th
On 8-feb-2006, at 16:47, Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro wrote:
gjc:/usr/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload$ ldd itertools.so
libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x2abcc000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x2ace2000)
/lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x4000)
gjc
Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 16:01 -0800, Robert Brewer wrote:
>
> > Perhaps, but please keep in mind that the smtpd module uses
> > both, currently, and would have to be rewritten if either is
> > "removed".
>
> Would that really be a huge loss?
It'd be a huge loss for the rand
+1 on 'hint' vs 'cue'... also infers 'not definitive' (sort of like having a
hint of how much longer the "honey do" list is... the honey do list is
never 'exhaustive', only exhausting! ;-)
On 2/8/06, Andrew Koenig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm worried about the name. There are now ex
Thomas Heller wrote:
> I'm not sure the platform SDK include files (.H and .IDL) are really
> compatible with VC7.1. I remember that we (on our company, building C++
> software) had to 'Unregister the PSDK Directories with Visual Studio'
> (available from the start menu) before building the stuff,
At 10:07 AM 2/8/2006 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
> > the name, would avoid all the heated discussion... :-)
>
>Note that I'm not participating in any attempts to "impr
On 2/8/06, Patrick Collison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And to think that people thought that keeping "lambda", but changing
> the name, would avoid all the heated discussion... :-)
Note that I'm not participating in any attempts to "improve" lambda.
Just about the only improvement I'd like to s
+1 for __length_hint__. Raymond?
On 2/8/06, Andrew Koenig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm worried about the name. There are now exactly two names that behave
> > like a special method without having the double-underscores around it.
> > The first name is 'next', which is kind of fine because i
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:42:39 +0100
Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Neal Norwitz wrote:
> > On 2/7/06, Christopher Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Twisted is wonderful, powerful, rich, and very large. Perhaps a
> >small > > subset could be carefully extracted
> >>
> >The s
> I'm worried about the name. There are now exactly two names that behave
> like a special method without having the double-underscores around it.
> The first name is 'next', which is kind of fine because it's for
> iterator classes only and it's documented. But now, consider: the
> CPython imple
gjc:/usr/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload$ ldd itertools.so
libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x2abcc000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x2ace2000)
/lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x4000)
gjc:/usr/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload$
It seems that Python C exten
Neal Norwitz wrote:
> On 2/7/06, Christopher Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > Twisted is wonderful, powerful, rich, and very large. Perhaps a small
>> > subset could be carefully extracted
>>
>> The subject of putting (parts of) Twisted into the standard library
>> comes up once every
Smith wrote:
> ... There is a problem with dividing by 'ave' if the x and y are at
> the floating point limits, but the symmetric behaving form (presented
> by Scott Daniels) will have the same problem.
Upon reflection, 'max' is probably better than averaging, and avoiding
divide is also a reaso
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 03:08:25 -0500, "Raymond Hettinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[Smith]
>>I just ran into a curious behavior with small floating points, trying to
>>find the limits of them on my machine (XP). Does anyone know why the '0.0'
>>is showing up for one case below but not for the
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Armin Rigo wrote:
>
> IMHO for safety reasons we need to stick double-underscores around this
> name too, e.g. __length_cue__(). It's new in 2.5 and not documented
> anyway so this change won't break anything. Do you agree with that?
+1
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Patrick Collison wrote:
>
> How about `procedure', or just `proc'?
-1
lambdas are *expected* to return a result -- procedures are functions
with side-effects that don't return a result.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
"19. A la
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006, Thomas Wouters wrote:
>
> Anything beyond simple bugfixes on asyncore/asynchat seems like a terrible
> waste of effort, to me. And I hardly ever use Twisted.
+1
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
"19. A language that doesn't affect
Fuzzyman wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I understand that old style classes are slated to disappear in Python 3000.
>
> Does this mean that the following will be a syntax error :
>
> class Something:
> pass
>
> *or* that instead it will automatically inherit from object ?
Of course, I would say.
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 01:23:26PM +, Donovan Baarda wrote:
> I believe that Twisted does pretty much this with it's "deferred" stuff.
> It shoves slow stuff off for processing in a separate thread that
> re-syncs with the event loop when it's finished.
Deferreds are only an elaborate way to d
Martin v. Löwis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just came up with an idea how to resolve the VC versioning
> problems for good: Python should link with mscvrt.dll (which
> is part of the operating system), not with the CRT that the
> compiler provides.
Can you elaborate exactly on which versioning
Hi all,
Last september, the __len__ method of iterators was removed -- see
discussion at:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-September/056879.html
It was replaced by an optional undocumented method called _length_cue(),
which would be used to guess the number of remaining items in
Donovan Baarda wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 02:33 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> > Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> > > Tim Peters wrote:
> [...]
> > > What is the reason that people want to use threads when they can have
> > > poll/select-style message processing? Why does Zope require threads?
> > > IOW,
On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 02:33 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> > Tim Peters wrote:
[...]
> > What is the reason that people want to use threads when they can have
> > poll/select-style message processing? Why does Zope require threads?
> > IOW, why would anybody *want* a "threads
Josiah Carlson wrote:
> "Fredrik Lundh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>
What is the reason that people want to use threads when they can have
poll/select-style message processing? Why does Zope require threads?
IOW, why would anybody *want* a "threadsafe patch
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I just came up with an idea how to resolve the VC versioning
> problems for good: Python should link with mscvrt.dll (which
> is part of the operating system), not with the CRT that the
> compiler provides.
>
> To do that, we would need to compile an
>> After so many attempts to come up with an alternative for lambda,
>> perhaps we should admit defeat. I've not had the time to follow the
>> most recent rounds, but I propose that we keep lambda, so as to stop
>> wasting everybody's talent and time on an impossible quest.
>
> I agree with this. T
M, Raveendra Babu (STSD) wrote:
> 3)then /usr/ccs/bin/make
>
> it is giving some errors and the error is :
> gcc -c -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
> -I. -I./Include -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Python/pythonrun.o
> Python/pythonrun.c
> In file included from /usr/include/
Hi,
I am trying to build python-2.3.5 on solaris 9 - X86.
1) first I have unpacked : Python-2.3.5.tgz using : tar -zxvf
Python-2.3.5.tgz
no erros at this stage
2) then run :
./configure
No errors at this stage
3)then /usr/ccs/bin/make
it is giving some errors an
Hello all,
I understand that old style classes are slated to disappear in Python 3000.
Does this mean that the following will be a syntax error :
class Something:
pass
*or* that instead it will automatically inherit from object ?
The latter would break a few orders of magnitude less code o
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 08:53:46PM -0800, Bill Janssen wrote:
> Perhaps the right idea is to fix the various problems of asyncore.
The problem with making asyncore more useful is that you end up with (a cut
down version of) Twisted, although not one that would be able to integrate
with Twisted. a
[Smith]
>I just ran into a curious behavior with small floating points, trying to
>find the limits of them on my machine (XP). Does anyone know why the '0.0'
>is showing up for one case below but not for the other? According to my
>tests, the smallest representable float on my machine is much sm
"Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I just ran into a curious behavior with small floating points, trying
> to find the limits of them on my machine (XP). Does anyone know why the
> '0.0' is showing up for one case below but not for the other? According
> to my tests, the smallest representabl
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