Re: [Python-Dev] Status of the Buildbot fleet and related bugs

"R. David Murray" writes: > The buildbot pages appear to be pretty messed up now. I get many 404s > (ex: the above url, the all stable builders page), although some seem to > work (ex: the all builders page), and if I stick an 'all' into the URL > for my buildbot page I can get to it, though tha

Re: [Python-Dev] External module tests skipping on Windows build slaves?

David Bolen writes: > (...) > I would have sworn they used to get run, but now I'm not so sure. > Perhaps I'm remembering older Python releases with VS.NET 2003, since > the MSVC9 versions of the CRT and the SXS stuff was new with VS 2008 I > think. > > Does anyone happen to know if these tests h

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of the Buildbot fleet and related bugs

On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 at 00:09, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Martin v. L??wis v.loewis.de> writes: The buildbots still show occasional oddities. For example, right now in the page "http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/3.x/";, some results have disappeared (the columns for "AMD64 Ubuntu" builders have be

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Steven D'Aprano writes: > But for the life of me, I can't understand the 1/3 of the votes that > have been cast in favour of prohibiting comments for everybody, even > those who want comments. You gave reason (and I agree with you) for why, on a service that allows comments and/or ratings, that

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Some of the Python maintainers have recently started objecting to this > setup, asking that the standard library should be split into separate > packages that are released and distributed independent of Python. Others > of us feel strongly that such a change should not be

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI governance

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Chris Withers wrote: > PS: While I'm sure a lot of python-dev people are interested in this topic, > I'm pretty sure this whole huge sprawling thread belongs on catalog-sig... +100 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Guido> Of course, as a user, I might not trust a module that has no Guido> reviews or ratings. I suspect the vast majority of projects will never acquire ratings or reviews. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.pyt

[Python-Dev] External module tests skipping on Windows build slaves?

While working with the Windows (and now Windows 7) build slaves I've been noticing that a number of "unexpected" test skips are occurring, mostly for external modules like ssl, bz2, tk, etc... However, I know for a fact that those libraries are being fetched and built, so I was a little perplexed

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI governance

Chris Withers simplistix.co.uk> writes: > > PS: While I'm sure a lot of python-dev people are interested in this > topic, I'm pretty sure this whole huge sprawling thread belongs on > catalog-sig... Yes, please :) Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Jesse> I don't want us to impersonate the mindless, sub-useful drivel Jesse> found in App store/YouTube/etc comments 99% of the time or the Jesse> broken "5 star ratings" systems, etc. It's too easy to game. I implemented a "5-star" system for Musi-Cal back in the day. Now, admittedl

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI governance

Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote: that obscures the real debate. Regardless of the outcome, the poll's not going to change anyone's mind, and it certainly won't change the fact that PyPI's being run as a one-man show, not as a community resource. While I may not agree on his choices regarding comments a

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Matthew Woodcraft wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: Why do you think it is okay to combine the Disallow vote, without also combining the Allow vote? Less than a third of the total votes are in favour of disallowing comments, with two-thirds in favour of allowing them. I don't. I was giving one e

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

>> Frankly, I agree with him. As implemented, I *and others* think this >> is broken. I've taken the stance of not publishing things to PyPi >> until A> I find the time to contribute to make it better or B> It >> changes. Barry> That's distressing. For better or worse PyPI is

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Steven D'Aprano wrote: That's three choices for allowing comments, two for disallowing. Sorry, I should have been more explicit: The first choice makes comments compulsory. In other words, comments are allowed. The second choice makes comments optional. Whether it is opt-in or opt-out, PyP

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

[We really should be discussing this on catalog-sig, but moving things mid-thread never works, so here we go. I apologize to python-dev. I also apologize for the length.] On 2009-11-13 17:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:57:18 am Ben Finney wrote: "A.M. Kuchling" writes:

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of the Buildbot fleet and related bugs

Martin v. Löwis v.loewis.de> writes: > > > The buildbots still show occasional oddities. For example, right now in > > the page "http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/3.x/";, some results have > > disappeared (the columns for "AMD64 Ubuntu" builders have become empty). > > Yes, I noticed it too.

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Why do you think it is okay to combine the Disallow vote, without also > combining the Allow vote? Less than a third of the total votes are in > favour of disallowing comments, with two-thirds in favour of allowing > them. I don't. I was giving one example of the problem

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:19:17 am Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:17:40 am Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote: > > This "poll" business is just smoke and mirrors, anyway -- notice > > the way the "no comments" votors are split among three choices, > > while the "pro comments" voters have just tw

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:34:32 am Matthew Woodcraft wrote: > As I write, the option with the most votes is /Allow both ratings and > comments/. > > But between them, /Disallow comments/ and /Disallow both ratings and > comments/ have more votes. If that's an accurate characterisation, then things m

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:17:40 am Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote: > This "poll" business is just smoke and mirrors, anyway -- notice the > way the "no comments" votors are split among three choices, while the > "pro comments" voters have just two choices. What? Allow ratings and comments on all packages

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:57:18 am Ben Finney wrote: > "A.M. Kuchling" writes: > > If popular vote is ruled out, I don't see who else could possibly > > make the decision to disable comments and/or ratings. > > Reasoned argument with the person who decides. A bad idea with many > people's support is

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

"A.M. Kuchling" writes: > If popular vote is ruled out, I don't see who else could possibly make > the decision to disable comments and/or ratings. Reasoned argument with the person who decides. A bad idea with many people's support is still a bad idea; a good idea with few people's support is s

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

A.M. Kuchling schrieb: > If the open source approach of 'the maintainer decides' is followed, > well, both the maintainer of the code and the admin of the site is > Martin. Comments stay, then. > > If 'BDFL decides' is followed, GvR thinks the idea is reasonable > (http://mail.python.org/piperma

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > By the way, there's no way for me to vote that I don't care what > option ends up being chosen, but I strongly oppose choosing something > that would tend to make developers avoid using PyPI. I think the damage has already been done. There are

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 08:43:25AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote: > There's also no option to vote that decisions on how to manage Python > infrastructure (like PyPI) shouldn't be made by popular vote. If the open source approach of 'the maintainer decides' is followed, well, both the maintainer of the

Re: [Python-Dev] decimal.py: == and != comparisons involving NaNs

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 14:52, Mark Dickinson wrote: > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: >> And they do:  nan != 0 returns False.  Maybe I'm missing your point >> here? > > Aargh!  True!  I meant to say True! Huh. Somewhere along the line I lost track of how python handled

Re: [Python-Dev] decimal.py: == and != comparisons involving NaNs

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: > And they do:  nan != 0 returns False.  Maybe I'm missing your point > here? Aargh! True! I meant to say True! Mark ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailm

Re: [Python-Dev] decimal.py: == and != comparisons involving NaNs

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Adam Olsen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 06:01, Mark Dickinson wrote: >> Well, when running in some form of 'non-stop' mode, where (quiet) NaN >> results are supposed to be propagated to the end of a computation, you >> certainly want equality comparisons with n

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Paul Moore writes: > By the way, there's no way for me to vote that I don't care what > option ends up being chosen, but I strongly oppose choosing something > that would tend to make developers avoid using PyPI. There's also no option to vote that decisions on how to manage Python infrastructur

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Matthew Woodcraft woodcraft.me.uk> writes: > > It seems clear to me that, given those figures, allowing comments would > not be following the result of the vote. > > So I think that simply implementing the option that receives most votes > is not a wise plan. Can we defer any further discussion

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > Because I want to wait for the outcome of the poll first. The pypi front page says: | The poll will be closed on December 1, 2009. The option that receives | most votes will be implemented. As I write, the option with the most votes is /Allow both ratings and comments/

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Ben Finney schrieb: > Michael Sparks writes: > >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:44 AM, Ben Finney >> wrote: >> > So, the poll's audience is limited to those who visit the front page >> > (which is hardly ever necessary for package maintainers), and those >> > who already know it exists (e.g. throu

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

2009/11/13 Tres Seaver : > I can see the information about the poll, and a link to view the > results, without logging in. > >  http://pypi.python.org/pypi > > (second paragraph there).  That paragraph tells you that you need to log > in to vote in the poll. I don't want to create a PyPI account (

Re: [Python-Dev] decimal.py: == and != comparisons involving NaNs

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 06:01, Mark Dickinson wrote: > Well, when running in some form of 'non-stop' mode, where (quiet) NaN > results are supposed to be propagated to the end of a computation, you > certainly want equality comparisons with nan just to silently return false. > E.g., in code like: >

[Python-Dev] Summary of Python tracker Issues

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (11/06/09 - 11/13/09) Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue number. Do NOT respond to this message. 2491 open (+27) / 16645 closed (+14) / 19136 total (+41) Open issues with patches: 993 Average

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI front page

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:35 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> Ben Finney benfinney.id.au> writes: >>> There's a problem with the poll's placement: on the front page of the >>> PyPI website. >> >> Speaking of which, why is it that http://pypi.python.org/pypi and >> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ (not

[Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

> Sriram, > > Please take this discussion to catalog-sig - python-dev isn't the place > (the fact that many of us didn't immediately know the *right* place for > the discussion indicates where PyPI sits on our personal active level of > interest). > > You should find more interested (and knowledgab

[Python-Dev] Fwd: standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

Sriram, > > Please take this discussion to catalog-sig - python-dev isn't the place > (the fact that many of us didn't immediately know the *right* place for > the discussion indicates where PyPI sits on our personal active level of > interest). > > You should find more interested (and knowledgable

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:36:10 pm Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > > > It could be something as simple as a "require" keyword which could > > pull in the depdencies if not found. Perhaps at the top of your > > module, > > > > require (stu

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:36:10 pm Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > It could be something as simple as a "require" keyword which could >  pull in the depdencies if not found. Perhaps at the top of your > module, > >  require (stuff, '1.27') >  import stuff So Python, the *language*, has to become

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

Sriram Srinivasan wrote: > http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=library&submit=search > > > this lists all the packages with the term 'library' in it. Sriram, Please take this discussion to catalog-sig - pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=library&submit=search this lists all the packages with the term 'library' in it. -- Regards, Sriram. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

as people like to compare languages take ruby for example (i am confident that there will be no flame war here ;) ) we have PyPI they have RAA we have ? they have rubyforge i am seeing the rubyforge site now on my other tab, i find Communications (365 projects) Database (245 projects) Desktop E

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 76, Issue 114

Please don't send me again this email --Pesan Asli-- Dari:python-dev-requ...@python.org Pengirim:python-dev-bounces+wa2n39=gmail@python.org Ke:python-dev@python.org Balas Ke:python-dev@python.org Perihal:Python-Dev Digest, Vol 76, Issue 114 Terkirim:13 Nov 2009 03:00 Send Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 18:00 +1100, Ben Finney wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > > In my opinion, the community is best served by a good comment/review > > system, one which avoids the worst trolling, and allows authors the > > right of reply, but does not allow authors to censor inconvenie

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

On 13 Nov 2009, at 11:36 , Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > I think the recent postings on "CPAN for Python" in this list also stems > from similar thoughts. No. The CPAN for Python messages (in and out of the list) are about third-party packages and a better way to manage (and a better experie

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:08 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > I am not an expert, I am just another python learner. These are just my > > views on the state of the standard libraries and to > > make them state-of-the-art..! ;) > > If I understand correctly, you want the (current) standard library

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Kevin Teague wrote: > > It's also worth noting that there are three issues with respect to standard > library packaging which are all orthologous: > >  * Packaging for metadata: The standard library could be packaged so that > there is consistent metadata about the

Re: [Python-Dev] standard libraries don't behave like standard 'libraries'

you were thinking wrong. If suppose this feature is introduced it doesn't mean python will become batteries removed! you can ship the python release with the 'standard library packages' already installed. so what we get here is batteries included and ability to be changed after it is discharged! ;)

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPI comments and ratings, *really*?

Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:27:48 am Ludvig Ericson wrote: On 12 nov 2009, at 14:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:44:32 pm Ludvig Ericson wrote: Why are there comments on PyPI? Moreso, why are there comments which I cannot control as a package