[Python-Dev] [Visualpython-users] How VPython 6 differs from VPython 5

2013-01-13 Thread Mark Janssen
> Since this was copied to the Python-Dev list, I want to go on record as > stating firmly that there is no evidence whatsoever to substantiate claims > that there has ever been some kind of conflict between VPython and Python. My apologies, Bruce, I didn't mean for that second message to go to th

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/13/2013 5:49 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: I agree it makes it obvious what the right default behaviour should be: flag every FD as sensitive by default, and pass an argument to say "sensitive=False" when you want to disable Python's automatic protections. "sensitive" is a bad name... because th

Re: [Python-Dev] [Visualpython-users] How VPython 6 differs from VPython 5

2013-01-13 Thread Mark Janssen
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > For the record, I do not know of any evidence whatsoever for a supposed > "split" between the tiny VPython community and the huge Python community > concerning floating point variables. Nor do I see anything in Python that > needs to be "fi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Greg Ewing
Nick Coghlan wrote: Agreed, but it's the security implications that let us even contemplate the backwards compatibility break. I don't think that's a sufficient criterion for choosing a name. The backwards compatibility issue is a transitional thing, but we'll be stuck with the name forever. I

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Cleanup the docs ElementTree a bit and describe the default_namespace

2013-01-13 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
On 13.01.13 19:28, Eli Bendersky wrote: 1. A better place to "park" them is an issue (the original issue for which the commits were made, or even a new issue). I agree. Usually I do this, except for the cases when the issue number is not specified in the commit message. 2. Feel free to use

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Cleanup the docs ElementTree a bit and describe the default_namespace

2013-01-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > And perhaps it will be better if parameters will be described in same > order as they enumerated in the signature (now 'default_namespace' > described after 'method'). > > > Serhiy, both you comments make sense. But: 1. A better place to

Re: [Python-Dev] [Visualpython-users] How VPython 6 differs from VPython 5

2013-01-13 Thread Mark Janssen
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:15 AM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > Here is detailed information on how VPython 6 differs from VPython 5, which > will be incorporated in the Help for upcoming releases of VPython 6. Note > that the fact that in a main program __name__ isn't '__main__' is an > unavoidable "fea

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Cleanup the docs ElementTree a bit and describe the default_namespace

2013-01-13 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
And perhaps it will be better if parameters will be described in same order as they enumerated in the signature (now 'default_namespace' described after 'method'). ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listin

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Cleanup the docs ElementTree a bit and describe the default_namespace

2013-01-13 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
On 13.01.13 16:28, eli.bendersky wrote: http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/f0e80c7404a5 changeset: 81490:f0e80c7404a5 user:Eli Bendersky date:Sun Jan 13 06:27:51 2013 -0800 summary: Cleanup the docs ElementTree a bit and describe the default_namespace parameter. In the code,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Victor Stinner
> Alternatives > > > Always set close-on-exec flag > - Oops, this is completly wrong. This section is basically exactly the same than the PEP proposal, except that the default value of cloexec is set to True. The correct title is: "Set the close-on-exec fla

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 23:49:32 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > (it's not even just a security issue: letting a bound socket open and > > therefore being unable to re-use the same port is a bug even when > > security is not a concern) > > Agreed, but it's the security implications that let us even

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 22:44:06 +1000 > Nick Coghlan wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> > As for the opacity, feel free to propose something better >> > ("close_on_spawn", whatever). But I'm definitely and st

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 22:44:06 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > As for the opacity, feel free to propose something better > > ("close_on_spawn", whatever). But I'm definitely and strongly -1 > > on "noinherit". > > That's the main reason I quit

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > As for the opacity, feel free to propose something better > ("close_on_spawn", whatever). But I'm definitely and strongly -1 > on "noinherit". That's the main reason I quite like "sensitive" as a term for this, since it decouples the user s

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:33:30 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> It also means we're free to implement a mechanism that tries to close > >> all sensitive file descriptors in _PyOS_AfterFork. > > > > Ouch! This actually shows that "noinherit" is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> It also means we're free to implement a mechanism that tries to close >> all sensitive file descriptors in _PyOS_AfterFork. > > Ouch! This actually shows that "noinherit" is a very bad name. The PEP > is about closing fds after exec(), *not

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:13:42 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > > Also, ISTM that Windows also supports this flag. If it does, then > > "cloexec" might not be the best name, because it refers to the > > execve() Unix system call. Maybe something like "noinherit" would be > > clearer (although coming

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Charles-François Natali wrote: >> XXX Should ``subprocess.Popen`` set the close-on-exec flag on file XXX >> XXX descriptors of the constructor the ``pass_fds`` argument? XXX > > What? > Setting them cloexec would prevent them from being inherited in the > chil

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Charles-François Natali wrote: > Hello, > >> PEP: 433 >> Title: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors > > I'm not a native English speaker, but it seems to me that the correct > wording should be "parameter" (part of the function > definition/

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Chris Jerdonek
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 2:40 AM, Charles-François Natali wrote: > Hello, > >> PEP: 433 >> Title: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors > > I'm not a native English speaker, but it seems to me that the correct > wording should be "parameter" (part of the function > definition/

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 433: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors

2013-01-13 Thread Charles-François Natali
Hello, > PEP: 433 > Title: Add cloexec argument to functions creating file descriptors I'm not a native English speaker, but it seems to me that the correct wording should be "parameter" (part of the function definition/prototype, whereas "argument" refers to the actual value supplied). > This P

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.3): clean trailing whitespace

2013-01-13 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
On 12.01.13 17:45, eli.bendersky wrote: http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/bbfc8f62cb67 changeset: 81452:bbfc8f62cb67 branch: 3.3 parent: 81450:f9d1d120c19e user:Eli Bendersky date:Sat Jan 12 07:44:32 2013 -0800 summary: clean trailing whitespace Can you please cle