Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 3 December 2015 at 02:35, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 7:32 AM, Emanuel Barry wrote: >> >> Nick Coghlan made a pretty elaborated blog post about that here: >> http://opensource.com/life/14/9/why-python-4-wont-be-python-3 > > I wholeheartedly agree with what Nick writes ther

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 4 musings (was Re: Deleting with setting C API functions)

2015-12-02 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 02/12/2015 23:36, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Dec 02, 2015, at 11:26 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: Except that we should skip version 4 and go directly to 5 in homage to http://www.montypython.net/scripts/HG-handgrenade.php. Five is right out. https://youtu.be/QM9Bynjh2Lk?t=3m35s -Barry Can

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Greg
On 3/12/2015 5:41 a.m., Random832 wrote: Why bother with the dot? Why not rename 3.5 to Python 5, and then go to Python 6, etc, and then your "4.0" would be 10. Then we could call it Python X! Everything is better with an X in the name. -- Greg ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 4 musings (was Re: Deleting with setting C API functions)

2015-12-02 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
On 03.12.15 01:26, Gregory P. Smith wrote: Except that we should skip version 4 and go directly to 5 in homage to http://www.montypython.net/scripts/HG-handgrenade.php. Good point! So now we can assign version 4 as a term of un-realising any stupid ideas.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 4 musings (was Re: Deleting with setting C API functions)

2015-12-02 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Dec 02, 2015, at 11:26 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: >Except that we should skip version 4 and go directly to 5 in homage to >http://www.montypython.net/scripts/HG-handgrenade.php. Five is right out. https://youtu.be/QM9Bynjh2Lk?t=3m35s -Barry pgplrHBCVtY0F.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital s

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 4 musings (was Re: Deleting with setting C API functions)

2015-12-02 Thread Gregory P. Smith
Except that we should skip version 4 and go directly to 5 in homage to http://www.montypython.net/scripts/HG-handgrenade.php. On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:13 AM Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> On Dec 02, 2015, at 08:35 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 4 musings (was Re: Deleting with setting C API functions)

2015-12-02 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Dec 02, 2015, at 08:35 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > >I wholeheartedly agree with what Nick writes there > > As do I. > > One interesting point will be what *nix calls the /usr/bin thingie for > Python > 4. It would seem weird to call it

[Python-Dev] Python 4 musings (was Re: Deleting with setting C API functions)

2015-12-02 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Dec 02, 2015, at 08:35 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >I wholeheartedly agree with what Nick writes there As do I. One interesting point will be what *nix calls the /usr/bin thingie for Python 4. It would seem weird to call it /usr/bin/python3 and symlink it to say /usr/bin/python4.0 but maybe

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Random832
On 2015-12-02, Andrew Barnert wrote: > Python could just go from 3.9 to 4.0, as a regular dot release, just > to dispel the idea of an inevitable backward-incompatible "Python 4". > (That should be around 2 years after the expiration of 2.7 support, > py2/py3 naming, etc., right?) Why bother with

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 7:32 AM, Emanuel Barry wrote: > Nick Coghlan made a pretty elaborated blog post about that here: > http://opensource.com/life/14/9/why-python-4-wont-be-python-3 > I wholeheartedly agree with what Nick writes there -- but I can't resist noting that the title is backwards --

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev
On Dec 2, 2015, at 07:01, Random832 wrote: > > On 2015-12-02, Victor Stinner wrote: >>> Are there plans for a Python 4? >> >> No. Don't. Don't schedule any "removal" or *any* kind of "break >> backward compatibility" anymore, or you will definetly kill the Python >> community. > > I feel like

Re: [Python-Dev] Avoiding CPython performance regressions

2015-12-02 Thread Michael Droettboom
You may also be interested in a project I've been working on, airspeed velocity, which will automatically benchmark historical versions of a git or hg repo. http://github.com/spacetelescope/asv astropy, scipy, numpy and dask are already using it. Cheers, Mike

Re: [Python-Dev] Avoiding CPython performance regressions

2015-12-02 Thread Popa, Stefan A
Hi Fabio, Let me know if you have any questions related to the Python benchmarks run nightly in Intel’s 0-Day Lab. Thanks, Stefan From: "Stewart, David C" mailto:david.c.stew...@intel.com>> Date: Tuesday 1 December 2015 at 17:26 To: Fabio Zadrozny mailto:fabi...@gmail.com>> Cc: "R. David Murr

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Emanuel Barry
> From: victor.stin...@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 15:46:37 +0100 > To: random...@fastmail.com > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions > CC: python-dev@python.org > > 2015-12-02 15:40 GMT+01:00 Random832 : > > Are there plans for a Python 4? > > No. Don't. Don't sc

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Random832
On 2015-12-02, Victor Stinner wrote: >> Are there plans for a Python 4? > > No. Don't. Don't schedule any "removal" or *any* kind of "break > backward compatibility" anymore, or you will definetly kill the Python > community. I feel like I should note that I agree with your position here, I was j

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Victor Stinner
2015-12-02 15:40 GMT+01:00 Random832 : > Are there plans for a Python 4? No. Don't. Don't schedule any "removal" or *any* kind of "break backward compatibility" anymore, or you will definetly kill the Python community. It will probably take 10 years or more to convert *all* Python 2 code around t

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Random832
On 2015-12-02, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > A first step would be to replace the macro with a proper function > to avoid false positive warnings, even when using the correct API. > > Then we could add a warning to the PyObject_SetAttr() function and > hope that not too many projects use the stable ABI a

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 2 December 2015 at 22:41, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 02.12.2015 13:29, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: >> On 02.12.15 12:06, Victor Stinner wrote: >>> 2015-12-02 9:42 GMT+01:00 Serhiy Storchaka : You have enough time to update your projects, and you can update them uniformly for all versions.

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 02.12.2015 13:29, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > On 02.12.15 12:06, Victor Stinner wrote: >> 2015-12-02 9:42 GMT+01:00 Serhiy Storchaka : >>> You have enough time to update your projects, and you can update them >>> uniformly for all versions. And may be you will found few weird bugs related >>> to m

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
On 02.12.15 12:06, Victor Stinner wrote: 2015-12-02 9:42 GMT+01:00 Serhiy Storchaka : You have enough time to update your projects, and you can update them uniformly for all versions. And may be you will found few weird bugs related to misuse of Set* API. Did you check popular projects using C

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Victor Stinner
2015-12-02 9:42 GMT+01:00 Serhiy Storchaka : > You have enough time to update your projects, and you can update them > uniformly for all versions. And may be you will found few weird bugs related > to misuse of Set* API. Did you check popular projects using C extensions to check if they call Set*(

Re: [Python-Dev] Deleting with setting C API functions

2015-12-02 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
середа, 02-гру-2015 08:30:35 ви написали: > Le 1 déc. 2015 16:51, "Serhiy Storchaka" a écrit : > > Wouldn't be worth to deprecate deleting with Set* functions? Neither > > other abstract Set* APIs, not concrete Set* APIs don't support deleting. > >Deleting with Set* API can be unintentional and hi