Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

2018-05-05 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 11:09:21AM +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> What exactly didn't work? I don't understand. > > https://bugs.python.org/issue33412 > I've read it and I still don't fully understand the problem. Is it ALL of Tkinter t

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

2018-05-05 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 11:09:21AM +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > What exactly didn't work? I don't understand. https://bugs.python.org/issue33412 -- Steve ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/py

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

2018-05-05 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: > Well, this _is_ a big deal. As in, "with 15+ years of experience, 5+ with > Python, I failed to produce a working GUI in a week; no-one on the Net, > regardless of experience, (including Terry) is ever sure how to do things > ri

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

2018-05-05 Thread David Mertz
The below is really just making this whole situation worse. On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 8:22 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > As I suspected. This is a classic scenario that is occasionally seen > anywhere: "everyone is underestimating a problem until a disaster strike

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 May 2018 at 05:34, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Sat, 5 May 2018 at 10:41 Eric Fahlgren wrote: > >> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >>> What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regu

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

2018-05-05 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 04.05.2018 19:04, Guido van Rossum wrote: Thank you Steven! I assume that Brian hadn't seen my response (such crossed messages due to delivery delays are very common in this mailing list). I'd like to use your email (nearly) verbatim to start off the discussion about civility we're going t

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Brett Cannon
On Sat, 5 May 2018 at 10:41 Eric Fahlgren wrote: > On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi > wrote: > >> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> >>> What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regular .pyc >>> files, so that everyone can take advantage of

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/5/2018 2:33 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: On Sat, May 5, 2018, 10:40 AM Eric Fahlgren > wrote: On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi mailto:a.bad...@gmail.com>>wrote: On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith mailto:n...@pobox.com>>

Re: [Python-Dev] (name := expression) doesn't fit the narrative of PEP 20

2018-05-05 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
Reading this sub-thread, it struck me that a good way to make PEP 562 more likely to be accepted is to launch an over-the-top attack on it. Then more moderate people - who were/are not necessarily in favour of the PEP - feel pressurised into defending it. Hah! Watch this space for my vicious, v

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Miro Hrončok
On 5.5.2018 21:00, Nathaniel Smith wrote: I think in the vast majority of cases currently .pyc files are built on the same architecture where they're used? On Fedora (and by extension also on RHEL and CentOS) this is not rue. When the package is noarch (no extension module shipped, only pure

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 5/5/2018 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith > wrote: What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regular .pyc files, so that everyone can take advantage of this without rebuilding the interpreter? W

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Sat, May 5, 2018, 11:34 Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > On Sat, May 5, 2018, 10:40 AM Eric Fahlgren > wrote: > >> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >>> What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objec

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Toshio Kuratomi
On Sat, May 5, 2018, 10:40 AM Eric Fahlgren wrote: > On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi > wrote: > >> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> >>> What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regular .pyc >>> files, so that everyone can take advantage o

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Eric Fahlgren
On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > >> What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regular .pyc >> files, so that everyone can take advantage of this without rebuilding the >> interpreter? >> > > Would thi

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Toshio Kuratomi
On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regular .pyc > files, so that everyone can take advantage of this without rebuilding the > interpreter? > Would this make .pyc files arch specific? -Toshio __

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email (was: Drop/deprecate Tkinter?)

2018-05-05 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sat, 5 May 2018 01:43:00 +1000 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 06:31:03PM +, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > No one is saying people can't be upset and if you are ever upset there's > > something wrong; we're human beings after all. But those of us speaking up > > about the tone

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 5 May 2018 at 07:59, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 5/2/2018 5:11 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > > As a follow-up to the "[Python-Dev] (Looking for) A Retrospective on >> the Move to Python 3" thread, I will like to clarify how a feature >> should be removed from Python. >> > > Would it be possible (and

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

2018-05-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 5 May 2018 at 11:58, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regular .pyc > files, so that everyone can take advantage of this without rebuilding the > interpreter? > > Off the top of my head: > > We'd be making the in-memory layout of those objects

[Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-05-05 Thread Jeroen Demeyer
Hello all, I have updated PEP 575 in response to some posts on this mailing list and to some discussions in person with the core Cython developers. See https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0575/ The main differences with respect to the previous version are: * "builtin_function" was renamed to