. Sure it should be reusable,
but making it a codec seems to be a weird hack to me. And how would
you reuse it if it was a codec? A reusable autodetect feature would be
useable to detect what codec it is. A autodetect codec would not be
useful for that, as it would simply just decode.
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a codec?
Exactly so. This functionality just *isn't* a codec - there is no
encoding. Instead, it is an algorithm for *detecting* an encoding.
The conclusion was that a method do autodetect encodings would be
good. I think the same conclusion applies here.
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usecase and is clearer in any way. Instead it adds
something confusing: An encoding that isn't an encoding.
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to be needlessly formal. :-D
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, it doesn't warn for you using cmp or __cmp__
either, and 2to3 won't fix that, so it should actually warn for it.
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need to
write your own distutils extensions, in practice, and they are not
trivial. Distribute has simply done it for you. :)
I'm skeptical that code can work unmodified in both 2 and 3 without 2to3.
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a very minor issue in porting, so it won't help
much.
To really help, it needs to start implement things that break
backwards compatibility. That would be weird. :)
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.
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. That's
pretty much 2.7 you are talking about. :)
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is the right way to go there.
encoding='BOM' would probably only work if 'BOM' isn't an encoding but
a special tag, which is ugly.
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that makes sense can be
imagined.
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to think
about? I imagine that other companies have contributed before, so this is
probably an already solved problem.
I'm not a license lawyer, but typically your company needs to give the
code to the community. Yes, it means it stops owning it.
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to 2.7 could be useful, I
doubt that backporting code provided by an existing committer would be
the subject of this query :)
Ah. I probably misunderstood what the suggested contribution was.
Maybe it was a separate file, which I didn't get.
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On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 14:15, Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote:
(i.e. copyright and ownership are legal terms that don't necessarily mean
anything *practical* in these situations.)
OK, fair enough. :-)
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and the
3.x source hasn't been a problem.
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Another penny dropped when it comes to version specs.
Should 2.5 mean 2.5.0 only, or 2.5.*. Well... why would you ever need
to specify 2.5.0 only. That's a nonsense specification.
My project requires Python 2.5.0, but doesn't work with 2.5.1. Huh!?
Well, then fix it, goofball. :)
2.5 can mean
.
*or*
3.1.2
*or*
3.2.0 or later.
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, independent of what metadata field they
appear in.
That is admittedly a good argument.
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specifications does make sense, though.
(So we should clearly change that one too, eh?)
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On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 05:37, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
If the first x.y release were called x.y.0, (does not sys.version include
0?) then x.y would unambiguously mean the series.
Yeah, well, although sys.version includes the zero, nothing else does.
The first releases are called
Issue submitted: http://bugs.python.org/issue7490
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On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:24, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2009/12/10 Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com:
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 20:25, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
Since the intent of IGNORE_EXCEPTION_DETAIL is to make doctests immune to
implementation version
not be useful.
http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/community/trunk/
So anyone who cares to can check to see if their changes have broken
things right away, instead of only finding out 6 or 12 or 18 months
later. :)
Cc:ing zope-dev for opinions.
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name that seems to show up in 2.7 exception
names, but not in previous versions).
That sounds good to me.
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this be considered bugfixy enough to get into 3.1-branch as well
as 2.7? It really is damn annoying when you try to port doctests to
Python 3, and it would be great if we wouldn't have to wait for 3.2.
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On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:24, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2009/12/10 Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com:
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 20:25, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
Since the intent of IGNORE_EXCEPTION_DETAIL is to make doctests immune to
implementation version specific
a
testrunner) fails.
Is these changes necessary? It's going to be hell to test any form of
testrunner under both 2.6 and 2.7 if the formatting of test results have
changed.
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feeding the output of unittest back into doctest... ?
Yes, as this is a testrunner being tested.
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, and cuold even be considered a bugfix by
the Zope community.
Evolving doctest.py so it can handle this by itself would be
considered a bugfix by me. :)
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output. Something like that
might work. We could then have a transformer that handles differences
in exception formats by default.
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be an added bonus.
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) is that
there is a couple of lines extra. In 3.x though the format changes
from
AnException:
to
themodule.AnException:
and it seems ellipsis can't handle that case. At least it doesn't work for me.
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we get here is batteries included and ability to be changed after it
is discharged! ;)
You can. You can simply delete any files in the standard library that
you don't want.
What is your usecase?
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-on as possible.
They are. The mechanism for deciding if you want to use them is called
importing.
Now of you don't want them installed, the easiest is to remove the
ones you don't want. This is useful on embedded systems, etc, but not
generally useful otehrwise.
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that comments are not longer valid. In fact, we get a
bug-tracker as well.
Maybe we should just install a trac per package? :-)
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, 2to3 is only plugins, so. :) The difficulty in writing fixers is
understanding the abstract parse tree or whatever it's called and how
to use it. Documentation on that for people who don't have a doctorate
in computer linguistics would probably be a good idea. ;)
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a process that will convert only the
changed files, and before Distribute came with 3.0 support, that was
tedious. Now it's easy, if you want to use distribute. (Except that
there is some bug I promised to look at this week, but haven't)
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, maybe. If people haven't moved over to Python 3 in 2015 I think
we should start considering it. Let's discuss this again then.
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to remove when forward porting.
Well, when using 2to3 it already handles that stuff. But a module like
that would be very handy if you want to support both 2.6 and 3.x
without 2to3. With such a module it would be quite simple.
In fact, I think the module should be called timemachine. ;-)
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2009/11/4 Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com:
Lennart Regebro wrote:
I also would really like to see a real port of the bytes class to 2.6,
but I have a vague memory that there was some reason that wouldn't
work.
Not so much that it wouldn't work, but that the interfaces to support
using
. The major hangup for this has been setuptools. As you know,
distribute came with a Python 3 release fairly recently, which means
that most projects out there could not be ported or even planned (as
setuptools had no Python 3 plans) until something like a month ago.
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the future of Python
Or not. Maybe it's a dead branch of Python?
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, and then
hopefully merge it, etc.
It's slow, but moving.
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to 2.6,
but I have a vague memory that there was some reason that wouldn't
work.
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2009/10/29 Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com:
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/28 Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net:
skip at pobox.com writes:
So 2.7 support will for the most part be a case not of supporting
Python versions, but Python *users*.
Antoine That's still not a good
shouldn't
backport to the 2.6 branch, it's in bugfix mode. This is about 2.7. I
don't see what 2.6 has to do with it.
There are development practices which mitigate the
idea that backporting is always helpful to the user.
And those are?
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have to run on 2.6 or 2.5.
So 2.7 support will for the most part be a case not of supporting
Python versions, but Python *users*.
Which is a good thing.
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.
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examples except Zope 3, which is a completely different thing, so it
may very well be that Python did it way better. But still, it's not
pulled off yet.
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another name.
'utf8-binary-replace'?
Is it only usable with utf8 as an encoding?
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around that.
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On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 15:05, KDr2 k...@x-macro.com wrote:
I need an CPyAN.
On the lighter side of things: That would be pronounced spy-ann,
which mean the vomit is swedish. Do you still want it? :-D
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a graphical installer, so a
gui-version of zc.buildout then? (I'm only half serious).
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I discovered some remaining cmp() in 3.0.1, 38 minutes after Benjamin
fixed them. :) Unfortunately, that means porting setuptools to 3.0.1
will be a bit difficult. So my question is: Will there be a 3.0.2 with
those fixes, or should I add workaround code for 3.0.1?
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haven't really looked into if there is any other
possibilities yet, I'm concentrating to make it run for 3.1 trunk
first.
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Just my 2 eurocents:
I think version numbers communicate a couple of things. One thing the
communicate is that if you go from x.y.0 to x.y.1 (or from x.y.34 to
x.y.35 for that matter) you signify that this is a bug fix release,
and that the risk of any of your stuff breaking is close to zero,
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 19:19, Alexandre Vassalotti
alexan...@peadrop.com wrote:
Which revision of python are you using? I tried the test-case you gave
and 2to3 translated it perfectly.
3.0, I haven't tried with trunk yet, and possibly it's a more
complicated usecase.
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On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 20:02, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 19:49, Alexandre Vassalotti
alexan...@peadrop.com wrote:
3.0, I haven't tried with trunk yet, and possibly it's a more
complicated usecase.
Strange, fix_imports in Python 3.0 (final) looks fine
it's uses,
just not the one *you* want.
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The fix_imports fix seems to fix only the first import per line that you have.
So if you do for example
import urllib2, cStringIO
it will not fix cStringIO.
Is this a bug or a feature? :-) If it's a feature it should warn at
least, right?
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removal of threads but rather the Java threading model.
I just think it is a mistake to let multiple OS threads touch the same
interpreter.
Does Python have a java threading model? I don't know java well enough
to know what that is. :)
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. The Java solution with replacing it seems to be a better
idea at first glance, but what if you then end up with two filenames
that are the same? Possibly replacing with the ? character is a good
idea to notify that the file is there, but fail then fail to open it.
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On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 18:49, James Y Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Dec 10, 2008, at 5:55 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
Turns out, I created an empty time.py in /tmp, just to see the error
message. By buildout will when creating eggs from checked out modules,
copy them to a directory
in practice, I don't know yet. :)
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the proper symbols anyway, and ambiguity is
reintroduced.
It seems to me that mathematicians who need these things would be
better served by dedicated maths-software.
Just my 2 cents.
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I've added a setup.py to the python-incompatibilities projects code,
so adding c-extention modules should now be much easier. I don't do
much c-development myself, so I'm not the right person to do this, but
anybody that feels like adding C-extensions to this project is more
than welcome to do so.
as well. That would really help in migrating and writing
a migration guide. It would be great if you could help with this!
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, but I can't see a
better way.
Seems resonable.
PS: I'm learning the hard way, doing diff between 2.6 and 3.0 module
sourcecode. It must be a better way!.
Yeah, these changes should be properly documented in the CHANGES.txt.
I've seen some C-API chnges mentiones at least.
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this call, which is hard to say.
Options here are
1. Deprecating the with parameter for with_ and supporting both in
2.12 but not supporting Python2.6.
2. Using **kw in the argument and looking for noth with and with_,
that way, which will be backwards compatible.
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import fails, or the C-modules that it uses fail it's compile during
setup, so import of them failed.
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that it would be great if this would start now.
But writing a guide might not be a good idea until we know what the
changes are, and if the API is changing quickly now we don't. :-)
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other tests) that would be very
appreciated!
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to
sys.stdout.
Isn't it then enough to make sure your locale setting are correct?
(Never had any problems myself, if works great in Ubuntu).
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(lambda i: i%2, range(10)):
print(i)
1
3
5
7
9
How was it again? One and only one way? :-)
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after the future import, as all that
would then be needed it to repickle all the pickles to convert from
2.5 to 3.0 pickles, right?
So, if I understood this correctly, that sounds like a perfect solution. :)
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Has somebody made a list of the problems with eggs? Because I use them
all the time and hasn't encountered any problems whatsoever, myself...
:) So I am a bit surprised at the various discussions about them.
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cases, this is not how code is developed. Both within
larger organisations and within large communities like Zope and
Plone.
I don't think chewing through this issue once more is meaningful, so
I'll stop now.
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examples of such software?
I'll repeat the link where I explained my point on this:
http://regebro.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/why-python-26-and-30-compatibility-would-be-a-very-good-thing/
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that would work.
I still don't see why that is. In the examples you gave, no such
difficulties are apparent.
Maybe it's not apparent to people that hasn't developed in that kind
of environment, and I'm sorry I'm not able to make this clearer. But
that's just the way it is.
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in both
environments, so I don't see how that is a difference.
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: There is no setup.py install to run.
I guess I could better understand with a very specific example.
You gave Django as a very specific example, and I looked at Django,
and it works just fine with 2to3. The Plone collective is not
a specific example
It is a specific example.
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On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Paul Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 24/03/2008, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Thomas Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
safe assumption to make. A simple preprocessor step involving 2to3
requires
practice).
I think maybe you missed the statement I responded to, claiming that
2to3 would require no knowledge about the differences between Python
2.6 and 3.0, implying that you could just run it, and it would always
work, which I don't believe.
--
Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http
point in the procedure where an invocation of 2to3 could be
inserted relatively painlessly.
It can't. That's the whole point.
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Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http://www.colliberty.com/
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that exists in 2.6 is a good idea, and the more
of it the better.
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Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
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python4ply:
??? I'm not sure what this means... :)
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, this is
how things have been done in the Zope community for years. It's not a
problem. It does not lead to fragile code.
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Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http://www.colliberty.com/
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in short: no, the risk that the community splits is very small.
No, it is a significant risk. Don't brush it away. We do NOT end up
having a 2.x python world and a 3.x python world. The community
doesn't have the resources to maintain momentum in a language if the
energy is divided in half.
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Lennart
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