[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 682: Format Specifier for Signed Zero

PEP 682 (Format Specifier for Signed Zero) has been accepted! Please see https://discuss.python.org/t/accepting-pep-682-format-specifier-for-signed-zero/14088 Thanks to all involved, Mark ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To

[Python-Dev] Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for CPython?

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 5:11 PM Victor Stinner wrote: > I made a change to require C99 "NAN" constant [...] There's a separate discussion topic lurking here. It's equally in need of discussion here (IMO), but it's orthogonal to the "should we require C99" discussion. I've changed the subject

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 9:28 PM Guido van Rossum wrote: > Does the optimization for //10 actually help in the real world? [...] > Yep, I don't know. If 10 is *not* the most common small divisor in real world code, it must at least rank in the top five. I might hazard a guess that division by 2

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:08 PM Mark Dickinson wrote: > So gcc is anticipating divisions by 10 and introducing special-case > divide-by-reciprocal-multiply code for that case, and presumably the > profile generated for the PGO backs up this being a common enough case, so &g

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 4:11 PM Terry Reedy wrote: > > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41183935/why-does-gcc-use-multiplication-by-a-strange-number-in-implementing-integer-divi > > and > > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30790184/perform-integer-division-using-multiplication > > have

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 8:12 PM Tim Peters wrote: > Something is missing here, but can't guess what without seeing the > generated machine code.But I trust Mark will do that. > Welp, there goes my weekend. :-) $ python -m timeit -n 150 -s "x = 10**1000" "x//10" 150 loops, best of 5:

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 10:35 AM Mark Dickinson wrote: > Division may still be problematic. > On that note: Python divisions are somewhat crippled even on x64. Assuming 30-bit digits, the basic building block that's needed for multi-precision division is a 64-bit-by-32-bit unsigned i

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 9:05 PM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Note that ARM is merely an architecture with very diverse > implementations having quite differing performance characteristics. [...] > Understood. I'd be happy to see timings on a Raspberry Pi 3, say. I'm not too worried about things like

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 12:40 PM Skip Montanaro wrote: > Perhaps I missed it, but maybe an action item would be to add a > buildbot which configures for 15-bit PyLong digits. > Yep, good point. I was wrong to say that "15-bit builds don't appear to be exercised by the buildbots": there's a

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

Thanks all! So to summarize: - 15-bit digits are still very much in use, and deprecating the option would likely be premature at this point - the main users are old 32-bit (x86), which it's difficult to care about too much, and new 32-bit (principally ARM microarchitectures), which we *do* care

[Python-Dev] Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

tl;dr: I'd like to deprecate and eventually remove the option to use 15-bit digits in the PyLong implementation. Before doing so, I'd like to find out whether there's anyone still using 15-bit PyLong digits, and if so, why they're doing so. History: the use of 30-bit digits in PyLong was

[Python-Dev] Re: What is __int__ still useful for?

Meta: apologies for failing to trim the context in the previous post. -- Mark ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/

[Python-Dev] Re: What is __int__ still useful for?

I'd propose that we relegate `__trunc__` to the same status as `__floor__` and `__ceil__`: that is, have `__trunc__` limited to being support for `math.trunc`, and nothing more. Right now the `int` constructor potentially looks at all three of `__int__`, `__index__` and `__trunc__`, so the

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 7:28 PM, Chris Barker via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > > But once it becomes a more common idiom, students will see it in the wild > pretty early in their path to learning python. So we'll need to start > introducing it earlier than later. > > I think this

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating float.is_integer()

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 8:49 PM, David Mertz wrote: > For example, this can be true (even without reaching inf): > > >>> x.is_integer() > True > >>> (math.sqrt(x**2)).is_integer() > False > If you have a moment to share it, I'd be interested to know what value of `x` you used

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating float.is_integer()

I'd prefer to see `float.is_integer` stay. There _are_ occasions when one wants to check that a floating-point number is integral, and on those occasions, using `x.is_integer()` is the one obvious way to do it. I don't think the fact that it can be misused should be grounds for deprecation. As

Re: [Python-Dev] Symmetry arguments for API expansion

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Tim Peters wrote: > [Guido] > > as_integer_ratio() seems mostly cute (it has Tim Peters all > > over it), > > Nope! I had nothing to do with it. I would have been -0.5 on adding > it had I been aware at the time. > Looks like it

Re: [Python-Dev] Symmetry arguments for API expansion

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Raymond Hettinger < raymond.hettin...@gmail.com> wrote: > What is the proposal? > * Add an is_integer() method to int(), Decimal(), Fraction(), and Real(). > Modify Rational() to provide a default implementation. > >From the issue discussion, it sounds to me as

Re: [Python-Dev] 64 bit units in PyLong

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:52 AM, Siyuan Ren wrote: > The current PyLong implementation represents arbitrary precision integers in > units of 15 or 30 bits. I presume the purpose is to avoid overflow in > addition , subtraction and multiplication. But compilers these days

Re: [Python-Dev] Drastically improving list.sort() for lists of strings/ints

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Elliot Gorokhovsky wrote: > So I suppose the thing to do is to benchmark stable radix sort against > timsort and see if it's still worth it. Agreed; it would definitely be interesting to see benchmarks for the two-array stable sort

Re: [Python-Dev] Drastically improving list.sort() for lists of strings/ints

> I am interested in making a non-trivial improvement to list.sort() [...] Would your proposed new sorting algorithm be stable? The language currently guarantees stability for `list.sort` and `sorted`. -- Mark ___ Python-Dev mailing list

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 4000 to explicitly declare we won't be doing a Py3k style compatibility break again?

[Moderately off-topic] On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 3:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: I used to refer to Python 4000 as the hypothetical compatibility break version. Now I refer to Python 5000. I personally think it should be Python 500, or Py5M. When we come to create the

Re: [Python-Dev] Language Summit notes

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 11:26 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.netwrote: What does this mean exactly? Under OS X and Linux, Python is typically installed by default. Under OS X, at least, I think there are valid reasons to not want to use the system-supplied Python. On my up-to-date OS X

Re: [Python-Dev] is the concept of 'reference ownership' no long applicable in Python 3.4?

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Jianfeng Mao j...@rocketsoftware.comwrote: I noticed the following changes in the C API manuals from 3.3.5 (and earlier versions) to 3.4. I don’t know if these changes are deliberate and imply that we C extension developers no longer need to care about

Re: [Python-Dev] is the concept of 'reference ownership' no long applicable in Python 3.4?

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: This looks like a doc build issue: when I build the documentation locally for the default branch, I still see the expected Return value: New reference. lines. Opened http://bugs.python.org/issue21286 for this issue

Re: [Python-Dev] Using more specific methods in Python unit tests

On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: The practical benefits of this kind of change in the test suite are also highly dubious, because they *only help if the test fails at some point in the future*. At that point, whoever caused the test to fail will switch

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

The PEP and code look generally good to me. I think the API for median and its variants deserves some wider discussion: the reference implementation has a callable 'median', and variant callables 'median.low', 'median.high', 'median.grouped'. The pattern of attaching the variant callables as

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.infowrote: Can I request that people please look at this issue, with an aim to ruling on the PEP and (hopefully) adding the module to 3.4 before feature freeze? If it is accepted, I am willing to be primary maintainer for this

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.infowrote: - Each scheme ended up needing to be a separate function, for ease of both implementation and testing. So I had four private median functions, which I put inside a class to act as namespace and avoid polluting the main

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

median; m = median(my_data) should still work in the simple case. Mark Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On 15/08/13 21:42, Mark Dickinson wrote: The PEP and code look generally good to me. I think the API for median and its variants deserves some wider discussion

Re: [Python-Dev] Semantics of __int__(), __index__()

On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Terry Jan Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: 2. int(rational): for floats, Fractions, and Decimals, this returns the integral part, truncating toward 0. Decimal and float have __int__ methods. Fractions, to my surprise, does not, so int must use __floor__ or

Re: [Python-Dev] Semantics of __int__(), __index__()

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps we should start emitting a DeprecationWarning for int subclasses returned from __int__ and __index__ in 3.4? +1. Sounds good to me. (I like the idea of an explicit error over implicit conversion to the base

Re: [Python-Dev] Semantics of __int__(), __index__()

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:44 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: int() and operator.index() are both type coercion calls to produce true Python integers - they will never return a subclass, and this is both deliberate and consistent with all the other builtin types that accept an

Re: [Python-Dev] Semantics of __int__(), __index__()

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Mark Shannon m...@hotpy.org wrote: Hence my original question: what *should* the semantics be? I like Nick's answer to that: int *should* always return something of exact type int. Otherwise you're always left wondering whether you have to do int(int(x)), or

Re: [Python-Dev] Semantics of __int__(), __index__()

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: My 2 cents here is that which one is called seems to be truly random. Try looking into what builtin functions call (for example list.pop calls __int__, who knew) That sounds like a clear bug to me. It should

Re: [Python-Dev] Semantics of __int__(), __index__()

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.comwrote: My 2 cents here is that which one is called seems to be truly random. Try looking into what builtin functions call (for example list.pop calls

Re: [Python-Dev] Semantics of __int__(), __index__()

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Mark Shannon m...@hotpy.org wrote: class Int1(int): def __init__(self, val=0): print(new %s % self.__class__) class Int2(Int1): def __int__(self): return self and two instances i1 = Int1() i2 = Int2() we get the following

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Using 'long double' to force this structure to be worst case aligned is no

On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org wrote: So changing the definition of the dummy side of the union makes zero difference to already compiled code as it (a) doesn't change the structure's size and (b) all existing implementations already align these on an 8 byte

[Python-Dev] Okay to document the exec tuple form of the exec statement in Python 2.7?

In Python 2, the 'exec' statement supports 'exec'-ing a (statement, globals, locals) tuple: exec(print 2, {}, {}) 2 This isn't currently documented at: http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#the-exec-statement. It's easy to fix the docs, but in doing so we'd effectively be blessing

Re: [Python-Dev] Okay to document the exec tuple form of the exec statement in Python 2.7?

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: If you can find an existing test for it, then definitely (although the fact it didn't previously work on Jython suggests there may not be one). I don't see any *direct* tests for this feature, though there are a couple of

Re: [Python-Dev] return type of __complex__

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: I think I've changed my mind on this, since it was pointed out that if you're going to return a float instead of a complex, you should really be implementing __float__, not __complex__. Yes, I'm wavering on this,

Re: [Python-Dev] return type of __complex__

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: I probably not say that, but even so my personal taste would be to fix the docs to describe the current behavior in 2.7. Evidently somebody thought float was appropriate The implementation of complex_new is

Re: [Python-Dev] return type of __complex__

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Given the way complex numbers interact with floats generally, returning a complex number with no imaginary component as a floating point value seems legitimate and the checks in cmath overly strict. Otherwise you would get

Re: [Python-Dev] return type of __complex__

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2012/10/19 Antonio Cuni anto.c...@gmail.com: indeed, you are right. So I suppose that in pypy we could just relax the check in cmath and be happy. Is there any chance that this will be changed in 2.7 and/or 3.x?

Re: [Python-Dev] return type of __complex__

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Christian Heimes christ...@python.org wrote: In order to fix the bug the code in PyComplex_AsCComplex() must be altered to support float as return type from __complex__(). That's a major change. Agreed that this doesn't seem appropriate for bugfix releases. We

[Python-Dev] TypeError: f() missing 1 required positional argument: 'x'

I suspect I've missed the boat on this one (certainly for 3.3.0), but here goes. The new TypeError reporting for bad function calls is a huge improvement (thanks Benjamin!), but I have one small nitpick: what *is* a positional argument? For example: def f(x): pass ... f()

Re: [Python-Dev] TypeError: f() missing 1 required positional argument: 'x'

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: +1 for using the unqualified argument in these error messages to mean positional or keyword argument (inspect.Parameter spells it out as POSITIONAL_OR_KEYWORD, but the full phrase is far too verbose for an error message).

Re: [Python-Dev] TypeError: f() missing 1 required positional argument: 'x'

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: As you noted in your next message, keyword-only arguments need to be distinguished from these positional arguments somehow. Maybe it helps to think of positional to mean the only formals you can pass to with

Re: [Python-Dev] TypeError: f() missing 1 required positional argument: 'x'

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com: And excepting optional ones, too, right? E.g., the c in def foo(a, b, c=1, *args, d): pass can be passed to by position, but isn't positional. Why

Re: [Python-Dev] creating Lib/tests/cmath_testcases.txt for 64 bit complex numbers (text)

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Matti Picus matti.pi...@gmail.com wrote: Can the authors of the original file help me reconstruct the scripts or programs used to generate it, and reformulate them for 32 bit floats? I used a ctypes wrapper around the MPFR library for most of the testcases,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0424: A method for exposing a length hint

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 18:47:38 +1000 Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not seeing the value in returning None over 0 for the don't know case - it just makes the API harder to use. The point is that 0 is a

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Issue #14716: Change integer overflow check in unicode_writer_prepare()

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 12:08 PM, victor.stinner python-check...@python.org wrote: http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/ab500b297900 changeset:   76821:ab500b297900 user:        Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com date:        Mon May 07 13:02:44 2012 +0200 summary:  Issue #14716: Change

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Issue #14716: Change integer overflow check in unicode_writer_prepare()

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: will almost always be one less than a power of 2 and powers of 2 are always congruent to 1, 2 or 4 modulo 5, we're safe. Bah. That should have read 1, 2, 3 or 4 modulo 5

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of the fix for the hash collision vulnerability

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: How pathological the data needs to be before the collision counter triggers? I'd expect *very* pathological. How pathological do you consider the set {1 n for n in range(2000)} to be? What about the set:

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of the fix for the hash collision vulnerability

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: How pathological do you consider the set   {1 n for n in range(2000)} to be?  What about the set:   ieee754_powers_of_two = {2.0**n for n in range(-1074, 1024)} ?  The 2000 elements of the latter set have only 61

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Enhance Py_ARRAY_LENGTH(): fail at build time if the argument is not an array

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:45 AM, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@haypocalc.com wrote: I would like to suggest the opposite: move platform independdant macros from pyport.h to pymacro.h :-) Suggestions:  - Py_ARITHMETIC_RIGHT_SHIFT  - Py_FORCE_EXPANSION  - Py_SAFE_DOWNCAST Not sure about the

[Python-Dev] EuroPython Language Summit report

the topics that we discussed below. Present: Antonio Cuni Mark Dickinson Larry Hastings (chair) Marc-André Lemburg Ezio Melotti Antoine Pitrou Armin Ronacher Armin Rigo Mark Ramm Topics covered == Python 3 adoption

Re: [Python-Dev] Language summit writeup anyone?

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com a écrit : Unfortunately I'm missing Europython (and language summit) this year. Did anyone do a writeup on what was discussed? Mark Dickinson has been taking notes, but since

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Summit at EuroPython: 19th June

Hi Michael, Sorry for the late reply; it's been kinda busy around here. If there are places left, I'll definitely be there at the summit. Congratulations on your impending doom! (And sorry to hear that you might not be there in Florence.) Mark On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Michael Foord

Re: [Python-Dev] Not-a-Number

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: Taking a step back from all this, why does Python allow NaNs to arise from computations *at all*? History, I think. There's a c.l.p. message from Tim Peters somewhere saying something along the lines that he'd love

Re: [Python-Dev] PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Hrvoje Niksic hrvoje.nik...@avl.com wrote: The other day I was surprised to learn this: nan = float('nan') nan == nan False [nan] == [nan] True                  # also True in tuples, dicts, etc. That one surprises me a bit too: I knew we were using

Re: [Python-Dev] PyObject_RichCompareBool identity shortcut

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: One issue that I don't fully understand: I know there is only one instance of None in Python, but I'm not sure where to discover whether there is only a single, or whether there can be multiple, instances of NaN or

Re: [Python-Dev] Bug? Can't rebind local variables after calling pdb.set_trace()

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Djoume Salvetti dsalve...@trapeze.com wrote: Thank you and sorry about the pastebin. I can reproduce it on python 2.5.2 and python 2.6.6 but not on python 3.1.2 (all in ubuntu). I'll open a bug. Is http://bugs.python.org/issue5215 the same issue? Mark

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggest reverting today's checkin (recursive constant folding in the peephole optimizer)

FWIW, I'm -1 on backing out Antoine's patch. In addition to fixing the minor optimization regression, it makes the peepholer significantly more consistent in what it can and can't fold. One of the first times that I delved into the peepholer code was to try to understand why expressions like: 2

Re: [Python-Dev] constant folding of -0

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 2:17 AM, Eugene Toder elto...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed, see http://bugs.python.org/issue11244 Yes, I've noticed that too. However, if I'm not missing something, your patches do not address folding of -0. Hmm, it seems that way. Could you post a comment on the tracker

Re: [Python-Dev] Omit Py_buffer struct from Stable ABI for Python 3.2?

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Currently [1], the implementation and the documentation for PEP 3118's Py_buffer struct don't line up (there's an extra field in the implementation that the PEP doesn't mention). I think there are actually two such fields:

Re: [Python-Dev] Omit Py_buffer struct from Stable ABI for Python 3.2?

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  What's the responsibility of a buffer export w.r.t. the obj field---i.e., what should 3rd party code be Grr. *buffer exporter*, not *buffer export*. Mark

Re: [Python-Dev] Omit Py_buffer struct from Stable ABI for Python 3.2?

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 12:55:55 + Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: The need for obj is a little ugly:  as far as I can tell, it's meaningless for a 3rd-party object that wants to export buffers---it's only

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r87445 - python/branches/py3k/Lib/numbers.py

On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:     def __index__(self): -        index(self) +        someobject[self]         return int(self) Changing the docstring to say operator.index(self) would be the clearest solution here. Agreed. Certainly

Re: [Python-Dev] nonlocal x = value

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, I'm entirely opposed to doing an assignment in a nonlocal definition. [...] -1 for assignment in nonlocal and global statements from me, too. Mark ___

Re: [Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists -- continuation

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:51 PM, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote: It seems like the status quo is fine.  I wouldn't object to it being made more consistent.  I would object to removing the existing cases. Same here, on all three counts. In one of the projects I'm currently working

Re: [Python-Dev] python 2 for building python 3

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Er, normally you don't need *any* Python installed to build Python (be it 3.x or 2.x). Are you sure about this? I remember needing an existing Python to building Python 2.7 on a new python-less install of FreeBSD a

Re: [Python-Dev] python 2 for building python 3

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Er, normally you don't need *any* Python installed to build Python (be it 3.x or 2.x). Are you sure about this?  I remember needing an existing

Re: [Python-Dev] python 2 for building python 3

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: You have to touch Include/Python-ast.h and Python/Python-ast.c. We do this for release tarballs. Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. Mark ___ Python-Dev mailing list

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: In the case of number parsing, I think Python would be better if float() rejected non-ASCII strings, and any support for such parsing should be redone correctly in a different place (preferably along with printing of

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot master update

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: As you may have noticed: I updated the buildbot master to release 0.8.2. If you notice any problems, please post them here. One effect of this change seems to be that bbreport[1] no longer works, since it appears that

Re: [Python-Dev] Behaviour of max() and min() with equal keys

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Matthew Woodcraft matt...@woodcraft.me.uk wrote: In CPython, the builtin max() and min() have the property that if there are items with equal keys, the first item is returned. From a quick look at their source, I think this is true for Jython and IronPython too.

Re: [Python-Dev] Behaviour of max() and min() with equal keys

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin jyass...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, Decimal isn't doing anything along these lines. At least in Python 2.6, I get: Decimal('2').max(Decimal('2.0')) Decimal('2') Decimal('2.0').max(Decimal('2')) Decimal('2') Decimal('2.0').min(Decimal('2'))

Re: [Python-Dev] Behaviour of max() and min() with equal keys

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin jyass...@gmail.com wrote: Decimal may actually have this backwards. The idea would be that min(*lst) == sorted(lst)[0], and max(*lst) == sorted(lst)[-1]. Given a stable sort, then, max of equivalent elements would return the last element, and

Re: [Python-Dev] Behaviour of max() and min() with equal keys

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin jyass...@gmail.com wrote: It's ignoring the order of the arguments. It also creates a new Decimal object for the return value, so I can't use id() to check which one

Re: [Python-Dev] Behaviour of max() and min() with equal keys

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin jyass...@gmail.com wrote: It's ignoring the order of the arguments. It also creates a new Decimal

Re: [Python-Dev] Possible bug in randint when importing pylab?

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Timothy Kinney timothyjkin...@gmail.com wrote: I am getting some unexpected behavior in Python 2.6.4 on a WinXP SP3 box. If I run the following: [code] from pylab import randint for s in range(100):    print randint(0,1) [/code] I get 100 zeroes. If I

Re: [Python-Dev] Remove unit test needed

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Hello, I would like to see “unit test needed” removed from the workflow menu in the bug tracker. The reason is that we don't do test-driven development (or, at least, most of us don't) and this stage entry is

Re: [Python-Dev] New Summary Lists on Issue Tracker

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Tim Golden m...@timgolden.me.uk wrote: Thanks to whoever's been working on the new Summary lists on the Issue Tracker. Ezio Melotti, I assume. The Followed by you / Created by you / Assigned to you are just what the doctor ordered. Agreed. Now I can get rid

Re: [Python-Dev] New Summary Lists on Issue Tracker

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com wrote:  On 11/08/2010 17.59, Mark Dickinson wrote: One niggle:  we seem to have lost the simple 'Open Issues' search under 'Summaries' on the left-hand side of the page. I was expecting someone to complain about it. Glad

Re: [Python-Dev] builtin round 2.7

2010/8/7 Kristján Valur Jónsson krist...@ccpgames.com: Hi there. [...] But it appears that the builtin round() method also changed.  Whereas I see the changing of floating point representation in string formatting as not being very serious, why did the arithmetic function round() have to

Re: [Python-Dev] builtin round 2.7

2010/8/7 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com: 2010/8/7 Kristján Valur Jónsson krist...@ccpgames.com: Hi there. [...] But it appears that the builtin round() method also changed.  Whereas I see the changing of floating point representation in string formatting as not being very serious, why did

[Python-Dev] Proposal: make float.__str__ identical to float__repr__ in Python 3.2

Now that we've got the short float repr in Python, there's less value in having float.__str__ truncate to 12 significant digits (as it currently does). For Python 3.2, I propose making float.__str__ use the same algorithm as float.__repr__ for its output (and similarly for complex). Apart from

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: make float.__str__ identical to float__repr__ in Python 3.2

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 29, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote: Now that we've got the short float repr in Python, there's less value in having float.__str__ truncate to 12 significant digits (as it currently does

Re: [Python-Dev] More C API abstraction for user defined types

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:35 AM, Petre Galan petre.ga...@gmail.com wrote: ival should not be resolved through PyLong_AsLong, but through functionality/interface like PyNumber_Long +1, but I'd prefer it if PyNumber_Index

Re: [Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists.

On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: +1 for fixing it from me, unless any of the other implementations object. @Mark: my comment on the tracker issue had an implied ...unless you really want to on the end :) Thanks! Patch at http://bugs.python.org/issue9232

[Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists.

While looking at a parser module issue (http://bugs.python.org/issue9154) I noticed that Python's grammar doesn't permit trailing commas after keyword-only args. That is, def f(a, b,): pass is valid syntax, while def f(*, a, b,): pass is not. I was just curious whether the latter

Re: [Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists.

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Dino Viehland di...@microsoft.com wrote: Terry wrote: This violates the important principle that allowed def and call arg sequences should match to the extent sensible and possible. In this sense, the SyntaxError is a bug. So I would fix this now for 3.2 and

Re: [Python-Dev] blocking 2.7

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Walter Dörwald wal...@livinglogic.de wrote: http://coverage.livinglogic.de/ *does* include coverage info for stuff written in C, see for example:   http://coverage.livinglogic.de/Objects/unicodeobject.c.html However it *is* strange that test_audioop.py gets

Re: [Python-Dev] Thank yous

On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Jesse Noller jnol...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 July 2010 17:02, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: Now that

Re: [Python-Dev] blocking 2.7

On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 4:28 AM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: This is just a note that we have one bug blocking 2.7 final at the moment: http://bugs.python.org/issue9144 I've just made http://bugs.python.org/issue7673 a release blocker too, I'm afraid. It's a potential security

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python implementations reject semantically invalid expressions?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Craig Citro craigci...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, I'm obviously being silly here, but sure you can: dis.dis(raise TypeError())          0 114           26977          3 115            8293          6 IMPORT_STAR          7 SETUP_EXCEPT    25968 (to 25978)        

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python implementations reject semantically invalid expressions?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Craig Citro craigci...@gmail.com wrote: dis.dis(raise TypeError())          0 114           26977          3 115            8293          6 IMPORT_STAR          7 SETUP_EXCEPT    25968

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python implementations reject semantically invalid expressions?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: Craig, what are you using to get that? When I try it in Python 3.1, I get: TypeError: don't know how to disassemble str objects How do you get that result? As I just discovered (see above), dis.dis is happy to

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python implementations reject semantically invalid expressions?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Craig Citro craigci...@gmail.com wrote: Whoa.  That's very peculiar looking bytecode.  Is dis.dis behaving as it should here? BTW, I think you want 'raise TypeError', not 'raise TypeError()'. Yep, that's embarrassing. I was being lazy: I was expecting

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