mbers of the python.org
<http://python.org> domain, and retain the release announcements?
I think the python-announce list serves that purpose. Any time there's
an announcement here, I also see a separate copy of it on
python-announce (where I'm
Sent from my iPhone
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Why would "if not A" also be true when you repeat the current iteration? What
keeps this from becoming an endless loop?
Jan 26, 2023, 11:45 by thomasratzk...@outlook.de:
> Hi all,
>
> i would like to suggest the following Python feature. It naturally happens
> that on
but
others will be mangled or missing text. This means you would still need to
maintain the Malman archive as the canonical source of truth. Once fixed,
not only would the [Python-Dev] archives be searchable within Discourse,
but they should also rank better in search than they do in
rammar for f-strings in Python by
adding f-strings directly into the Grammar instead of using a
two-pass hand-written parser.
* This would lift some existing restrictions for f-strings that (we
believe) will improve the user experience with f-strings.
* Other benefits include:
wrote:
On Thu, Dec 01, 2022 at 10:18:49PM +, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote:
Wild suggestion:
Make None.__hash__ writable.
E.g.
None.__hash__ = lambda : 0 # Currently raises AttributeError:
'NoneType' object attribute '__hash__' is read-only
You would have to
You're right of course. Oh well, it *was* a wild idea.😁
Rob Cliffe
On 04/12/2
On 04/12/2022 18:16, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 at 05:11, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
wrote:
Wild suggestion:
Make None.__hash__ writable.
E.g.
None.__hash__ = lambda : 0 # Curr
e. A
singleton class can have a hash function that matches identity based
equality without using id: any constant hash function will do.
--
Oscar
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that
we should hopefully be able to avoid misunderstanding each other.
There are probably other places where you could find mentions of this
in the docs but I just took a quick look in the Python 3.5 docs
(before hash randomisation) to find this mention of dictionary
iteration order:
https://docs.p
Thank you all for your responses!
Best,
Mark
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I’m looking for help understanding how Python will release fixes related to the
SHA3 critical security vulnerability (CVE-2022-37454). I’ve tried to figure
this out myself, but I’m far from a Python expert and I’m not sure where else I
should look.
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong
t called inline caching, where Python caches the results of
expensive operations directly in the bytecode.
I wonder how this caching works, given that the dynamic nature means
that virtually every operation could have side effects, causing wrong
behaviour when cached. The only mitigation for thi
I have built this on systems at work, that are populated by CAD guys who have
developed a good set of libraries to maintain in a linux distribution. Went
without a hitch.
I am trying to build this at home with an opensuse distribution. I am not
trying to do any modifications to python, now
On 15/07/2022 16:09, Rob Boehne via Python-Dev wrote:
100% agree – dealing with 5 or more platforms for discussion groups is
a nightmare, and I tend not to follow any of them as closely for that
reason.
I agree. I don't mind having to use Discourse if I want to take part in
a discussio
.g. the WebAssembly group is: https://discuss.python.org/c/webassembly/28
And its corresponding RSS feed is:
https://discuss.python.org/c/webassembly/28.rss
Cheers,
Peter
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100% agree – dealing with 5 or more platforms for discussion groups is a
nightmare, and I tend not to follow any of them as closely for that reason.
From: Skip Montanaro
Date: Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:26 AM
To: Petr Viktorin
Cc: python-dev@python.org
Subject: [SPAM] [Python-Dev] Re
> Would you be interested in being posted about my progress ?
>
> Best
>
> Matthieu
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ge to the dis module that you mentioned did not change how
the disassembly of bytecode gets displayed. Rather, it added the
pseudo-instructions to the opcodes list so that we have access to their
mnemonics from python. This is a step towards exposing intermediate
compilation steps to python (for unit
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e
already started adopting PEP 563) to the best future end state.
Particularly for libraries that want to support the full range of
supported Python versions.
Issues (1) and (2) can be resolved under PEP 649 by providing a way to
run the __co_annotations__ function without erroring on
not-yet-def
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On 26/04/2022 20:48, Carl Meyer via Python-Dev wrote:
On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 1:25 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
I also would like to hear more about the problem this is trying to solve, when
th real-world examples. (E.g. from pydantic?)
Yes please. I think these threads have jumped far too
; struct in C. Would you call what C does monkeypatching?
>
It is not analogous; it is a false analogy that obscures the issues with
this proposal in Python.
A C forward declaration (not to mention the full struct declaration also!)
is purely for the compiler; at runtime one can have a pointer
ution to forward reference problems for users of static typing
(every module that imports something that might be a forward reference
would have to import its implementation also, turning every one-line
import of that class into two or three lines) and causes new problems
for every user of Python due to
> On 26 Apr 2022, at 20:52, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
>
>
> On 4/25/22 23:56, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>> A problem with this trick is that you don’t know how large a class object
>> can get because a subclass of type might add new slots. This is currently
>>
is proposal, other than the size of the type (as mentioned
earlier). The PyObjC meta class constructs both the Python class and a
corresponding Objective-C class in lock step. On first glance this forward
class proposal should not cause any problems here other than the size of the
type obje
lass" object into a real type. (Which almost certainly means C is
> now mutable.)
>
A problem with this trick is that you don’t know how large a class object can
get because a subclass of type might add new slots. This is currently not
possible to do in P
olved is solely related to typing. Is it not
possible to solve it purely in the "typing world", rather than letting
it leak out and "infect" something basic in the core language like how
classes are declared? By "core language" I guess I mean &quo
* Erik, could you propose a change to the PEP text?
I just created https://github.com/python/peps/pull/2555 to address these issues.
-Erik
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rebound, as in plain name binding, when the second part
> is declared. I've stated that amidst my ramblings,
> but Nick Coghlan managed to keep it suscint at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DMITVTUIQKJW6RYVOPQXHD54VSYE7QHA/
I don't think name
;forward class" and
> "continue class".
I work on a Python static type checker.
I think a major issue with this proposal is that (in the
separate-modules case) it requires monkey-patching as an import side
effect, which is quite hard for both humans and static analysis tools
to re
UGH!
I thought there was a general understanding that when typing was added
to Python, there would be no impact, or at least minimal impact, on
people who didn't use it. (Raises hand.)
Now we see an(other) instance of intention creep.
Rob Cliffe
On 23/04/2022 02:13, Larry Hastings
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please provide some input on this
Please ask the pyinstaller developers about this.
Ronald
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Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/
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source of importlib
one too many times, I guess I will declare that I "know what [I'm] doing" for
now and keep on mutating sys.modules, since the alternative (intercepting all
imports) seems more painful to me. If my code breaks in a future Python version
ase send any comments there.
Any feedback would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Erik
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Message
if you modify
sys.modules by hand, which means it would never be safe to do so, i.e., the
behavior might change arbitrarily in a future Python version. But in my opinion
there are legitimate cases where it is necessary to ensure a module will be
reloaded the next time it is imported, and the doc
robably use it occasionally, but I don't feel a strong need for
it.
But I think your proposal is much stronger if you eliminate the
hoisting from it; with the hoisting I'd be -1. Out-of-source-order
execution like this is just quite surprising in the context of Python.
> 1. This would
Hi Barry,
On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 12:44 PM Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
> Start up overhead due to imports is a real problem for some class of
> applications, e.g. CLIs, and I’ve seen a lot of hacks implemented to get
> Python CLIs to be more responsive. E.g. getting from invocat
n a submodule is loaded using
any mechanism... a binding is placed in the parent module's namespace to the
submodule object", which is consistent with the behavior above, since the
second import of A.B does not actually "load" B (only retrieve it from the
sys.modules cache)
its.
Carl
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ace
always -- but not actually imported until someone accesses/uses it.
The difficulty arises because in this case you need some kind of
placeholder for the "deferred import", but you need to avoid this
"deferred object" escaping and becoming visible to Python code without
be
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;>
>>
>> Once
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committ...@python.org/thread/5EUZLT5PNA4HT42NGB5WVN5YWW5ASTT5/
>>
>> <https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committ...@python.org/thread/5EUZLT5PNA4HT42NGB5WVN5YWW5ASTT5/>
>> is c
Got it, thanks for the clarifications!
Tracking 3.x Python versions is fine. We already need to do that to support
things like new bytecodes, and PyTorch supports an explicit list of 3.x Python
versions with separate builds for each.
Tracking 3.x.y Python versions would be much more painful
P, but some kind of:
>
> "policy for the stdlib" document in which we could capture the primary points
> of view, places where there's consensus, etc. would be helpful to keep us
> retreading this over and over again.
>
> I suggest this without the bandwidth to act
release.
If the changed happens, would PyTorch still be able to use the eval frame API?
Or would it prevent from being used entirely?
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https
didn't - in either case it's not an interesting part of the
module's API).
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7;D' is not defined
I think we should change import * to exclude the __future__ import objects, and
perhaps also to not show them in dir(x). Any objections?
This came up in the discussion about https://bugs.python.org/issue26120 . See
the attached PR for a technique we can use to identify tho
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e that
value in the __slots__ attribute of the class
That way the value of the attribute reflects the slots that were created while
not breaking code that uses __slots__ and doesn’t change the value after class
creation.
Ronald
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 6:57 AM Ronald Ouss
class definition,
changing it afterwards is possible but has no effect (“class Foo: pass;
Foo.__slots__ = 42”). This surprised my recently and I have no idea if this
feature is ever used.
Ronald
>
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platform
> definition.
CTypes is hardware specific, although through libiff. There’s also intermittent
discussions about support for ancient hardware platforms. Would we block a
release when (for example) support for Linux on sparc32 is broken?
Ronald
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, if you immortalize your heap before forking (using the techniques in:
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/31489) then you'll end up removing the
vast majority of scenarios where CoW takes place. I can look into writing a new
technical article for Instagram with more up to date info but
Hi folks, as illustrated in faster-cpython#150 [1], we have implemented a
mechanism that supports data persistence of a subset of python date types with
mmap, therefore can reduce package import time by caching code object. This
could be seen as a more eager pyc format, as they are for the
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e
>>> does that leave pythoncapi_compat?
>> If you look at pythoncapi_compat.h, it provides backports for
>> recently-introduced public APIs such as PyObject_CallOneArg().
>
> Yes.
> On older Python versions, where the public API wasn't yet available, those
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anning on checking in CI)
> * some strings may never get used for any given ./python invocation
> (not that big a difference though)
The first two cons can probably be fixed by adding some indirection, with some
markers at the place of use and a script that uses those to generate the
C defin
be used and
tested with pre-releases of CPython, although possibly with less performance.
Ronald
>
> Maybe we should advertise the two modes more. And make sure that both work.
> There are certainly issues with the current state of the "limited API"
> implementation
reduce your maintenance burden.
With better communication we could find ways to do that.
Returning to the issue that started this thread - how do you suggest we
proceed with the exc_info change?
Irit
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T
roblem right now is the pressure put on Cython maintainers to fix
> > Cython as soon as possible. IMO core developers who introduce
> > incompatible changes should be more involved in the Cython changes,
> > since Cython is a **key component** of the Python ecosystem. IMO
> &
ges differently:
> > first fix Cython, and *then* introduce the change.
> >
> > - (1) Propose a Cython PR and get it merged
> > - (2) Wait until a new Cython version is released
> > - (3) If possible, wait until numpy is released with regenerated Cython
> code
> &g
fail.
Observably, it feels like they are doing this for core privileges (if they
don't already exist, they are a member of the python org?). Every time I see
one of those PRs (e.g add test for X, add delete redundant variables for Y),
the author seem to be cc-ing their mentor. This gives a
roved
>> from core-devs or triage members but not merged yet.
>>
>
>> > I know "drive by approvals" are annoying but I think it is
>> unfortunately part of open source projects.
>> >
>>
>> Sorry, but I don't think so.
>>
>
As someone who is watching the python/cpython repository, I'm very used to see
lots of traffic. But lately there have been a surge of spammy PRs which are
about the same, generally very trivial subject but individually fixing each
occurrence one by one:
- Add coverage to X (tens of the
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y Warsaw wrote:
> > Hello Mark, Matthew, Pradeep, Vincent, and Guido,
> >
> > The Python Steering Council discussed the latest version of PEP 646
> (Variadic Generics) at our last meeting, and have unanimously decided to
> accept the PEP. Congratulations!
> >
>
> Even less, actually.
> The PEP doesn't make a very clear distinction between invalid Python
> syntax vs. invalid type annotation, so I wanted to check if we're on the
> same page here: the newly valid syntax will be subject to PEP 387.
> We clearly are on the same pa
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type aliases and should be
>>> changed to "type argument list". The last one is less clear, I can't quite
>>> parse out what it's trying to say.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 5:04 PM Guido van Rossum
>>> wrote:
>>>
>&g
ed, Jan 12, 2022 at 5:04 PM Guido van Rossum
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 4:57 AM Petr Viktorin
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Matthew Rahtz wrote:
>>>> > Hi everyone,
>>>> >
>>>> > We've got to t
rray[*Ts1], y: Array[*Ts2]) as the
example? That seems unambiguous since the two positional arguments are
given separately.
Sorry, yes!
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https://mai
We've got to the stage now with PEP 646 that we're feeling pretty happy
>>> > with it. So far though we've mainly been workshopping it in
>>> typing-sig, so
>>> > as PEP 1 requires we're asking for some feedback here too before
>>> submittin
correct.
In any case, this is definitely something we should explain better in the
PEP. I'll make a TODO for myself to write something on this once Pradeep
and Guido have confirmed whether my understanding is correct.
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workshopping it in typing-sig,
>> so
>> > as PEP 1 requires we're asking for some feedback here too before
>> submitting
>> > it to the steering council.
>> >
>> > If you have time over the next couple of weeks, please take a look at
>&g
Hi,
I would like to announce PEP 676 to python-dev. It is a meta-PEP focussed on
modernising the PEP build infrastructure. From the abstract, "This PEP
addresses the infrastructure around rendering PEP files from reStructuredText
files to HTML webpages. We aim to specify a self-containe
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Hi all,
I submitted my first PR against Python a month or so ago and was wondering
if someone could take a quick look at it and let me know if anything needs
to be fixed before it can be merged.
It's a pretty simple change (mostly just boilerplate delegation) that
allows SpooledTemporar
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efinite +1 on new callable
syntax for me.
p.s. I'm +0.5 on | binding tighter than ->
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tiple `_` is a runtime
error. Maybe it would make too much of a mess.
After some testing evidently mypy only applies its knowledge sometimes anyway:
https://github.com/python/mypy/issues/11807
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ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2021-12-10 - 2021-12-17)
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I've just updated the original Immortal Instances PR with a bunch of tricks
that I used to achieve as much performance parity as possible:
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/19474 . You can see the details along
with some benchmarks in the PR itself.
This should address a bunch o
ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2021-12-03 - 2021-12-10)
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