I suspect I've missed the boat on this one (certainly for 3.3.0), but
here goes. The new TypeError reporting for bad function calls is a
huge improvement (thanks Benjamin!), but I have one small nitpick:
what *is* a positional argument? For example:
def f(x): pass
...
f()
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote:
I submit that the word 'positional' in the TypeError message
exacerbates this confusion, and that little would be lost by simply
dropping it from the exception message.
+1 for using the unqualified argument in these
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
+1 for using the unqualified argument in these error messages to
mean positional or keyword argument (inspect.Parameter spells it out
as POSITIONAL_OR_KEYWORD, but the full phrase is far too verbose for
an error message).
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps this simply isn't worth worrying about, especially since the
current error messages are all but certain to make it into the 3.3
release.
No all but about it at this point - the earliest they could change
again
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com:
Thoughts?
I tried to define the error messages in terms of the callee's
signature. I call the formals that are not variadic, keyword variadic,
or keyword-only, positional. For example, in
def f(a, b, c, *args, d):
pass
a, b, and c are
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
def f(a, b, c, *args, d):
pass
a, b, and c are positional. Hence the positional in error messages.
As you noted in your next message, keyword-only arguments need to be
distinguished from these positional
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:12:04 -0400
Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com:
Thoughts?
I tried to define the error messages in terms of the callee's
signature. I call the formals that are not variadic, keyword variadic,
or keyword-only,
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
As you noted in your next message, keyword-only arguments need to be
distinguished from these positional arguments somehow. Maybe it
helps to think of positional to mean the only formals you can pass
to with
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com:
And excepting optional ones, too, right? E.g., the c in
def foo(a, b, c=1, *args, d):
pass
can be passed to by position, but isn't positional.
Why not?
def f(a, b, c=3): pass
...
f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com:
And excepting optional ones, too, right? E.g., the c in
def foo(a, b, c=1, *args, d):
pass
can be passed to by position, but isn't positional.
Why not?
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com:
Thoughts?
I tried to define the error messages in terms of the callee's
signature. I call the formals that are not variadic, keyword variadic,
or keyword-only,
On 20 September 2012 16:14, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com:
And excepting optional ones, too, right? E.g., the c in
def foo(a, b, c=1, *args, d):
pass
can be passed to by position, but isn't positional.
Why not?
On 9/20/2012 7:56 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote:
I suspect I've missed the boat on this one (certainly for 3.3.0), but
here goes. The new TypeError reporting for bad function calls is a
huge improvement (thanks Benjamin!), but I have one small nitpick:
what *is* a positional argument? For example:
On 9/20/2012 10:12 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com:
Thoughts?
I tried to define the error messages in terms of the callee's
signature. I call the formals that are not variadic, keyword variadic,
or keyword-only, positional. For example, in
def f(a, b,
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org
wrote:
I tried to define the error messages in terms of the callee's
signature. I call the formals that are not variadic, keyword variadic,
or
On 9/20/2012 11:52 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Maybe this is also a good time to start distinguishing between
arguments (what you pass, call syntax) and parameters (what the
function receives, function definition syntax)?
One standard usage (and mine) is that parameters are the (local) names
On 20/09/12 22:59, Mark Dickinson wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Nick Coghlanncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
+1 for using the unqualified argument in these error messages to
mean positional or keyword argument (inspect.Parameter spells it out
as POSITIONAL_OR_KEYWORD, but the full phrase is
On 21/09/12 00:49, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:12:04 -0400
Benjamin Petersonbenja...@python.org wrote:
2012/9/20 Mark Dickinsondicki...@gmail.com:
Thoughts?
I tried to define the error messages in terms of the callee's
signature. I call the formals that are not variadic,
On 21/09/12 01:53, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
Mark Dickinson wrote:
def f(x): pass
...
f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, inmodule
TypeError: f() missing 1 required positional argument: 'x'
I would say that the only problem with this terminology is that it would be
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Chris Jerdonek
chris.jerdo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org
wrote:
I tried to define the error messages in terms of the
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On 20/09/12 22:59, Mark Dickinson wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Nick Coghlanncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
+1 for using the unqualified argument in these error messages to
mean positional or keyword argument (inspect.Parameter spells it out
as
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I would like to see error messages reserve the terms:
1) positional for explicitly positional-only parameters;
2) keyword for explicitly keyword-only parameters;
+1
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On 21/09/12 05:45, Ethan Furman wrote:
I don't expect error messages to give a complete catalog of every
problem with a specific function call. If f() reports that required
argument 'a' is missing, that does not imply that no other required
arguments are also missing. I think it is perfectly
We've already had this terminology discussion and documented the results in
PEP 362. The rest of the docs may require updates to be brought in line
with that.
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Sent from my phone, thus the relative brevity :)
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