Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Jun 13, 2012 8:31 PM, "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote: > > Cameron Simpson writes: > > > This approach has its own problems. Is the proposed list, like many lists, > > restricted to accept posts only from subscribers? If that is the case, > > when someone CCs the VM list, everyone honouring the

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

Cameron Simpson writes: > This approach has its own problems. Is the proposed list, like many lists, > restricted to accept posts only from subscribers? If that is the case, > when someone CCs the VM list, everyone honouring the CC in replies needs > to be a VM list member if they are not to g

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On 11Jun2012 15:35, PJ Eby wrote: | Yes, perhaps if the list were *just* a place to cc: in or send a heads-up | to python-dev discussions, and not to have actual list discussions per se, | that would do the trick. This approach has its own problems. Is the proposed list, like many lists, restrict

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Brett Cannon writes: >  > If anything this new list would act as a showing of good will > > "The road to Hell," as they say. > > We tried this a couple of times at XEmacs; it didn't work.  In > practice, threads didn't move, they split,

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

Brett Cannon writes: > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: > > Brett Cannon writes: > Ah, but you helped make my point! Not at all; your point has long since been made. I certainly agree that the current situation is unfortunate. I think it's a bit rude of you to

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:13:53 -0700 "fwierzbi...@gmail.com" wrote: > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > 1. Asking on python-dev is considered adequate. If an implementation > > wants to be consulted on changes, one or more of their developers > > *must* follow python-dev su

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 12/06/2012 15:40, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> >> Ah, but you helped make my point! For the people working on CPython, >> python-dev is a natural place. But what about PyPy, IronPython, or Jython >> (toss in Cython or any future VMs and it ju

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On 12/06/2012 15:40, Brett Cannon wrote: Ah, but you helped make my point! For the people working on CPython, python-dev is a natural place. But what about PyPy, IronPython, or Jython (toss in Cython or any future VMs and it just became an even larger spread of teams)? Do they naturally think to

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:49 AM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com < fwierzbi...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > To allow easier transition to a separate list (if that seems necessary > > at a later date), my preferred colour for the bikeshed is > > [compatibilit

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Brett Cannon writes: > > > Not necessarily. Just like discussions on SIGs can start and end > > there, I see no requirement that discussions on the list end up on > > python-dev. > > You've missed my point, which is that for many peo

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > To allow easier transition to a separate list (if that seems necessary > at a later date), my preferred colour for the bikeshed is > [compatibility-sig]. I for one approve of this bikeshed colour :) -Frank ___

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: > > But what guarantee do you have that (a) the right people sign up for > > the new list, and (b) topics are correctly brought up there instead of > > on python-dev? I agree that p

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

Brett Cannon writes: > Not necessarily. Just like discussions on SIGs can start and end > there, I see no requirement that discussions on the list end up on > python-dev. You've missed my point, which is that for many people working on CPython, python-dev will be the natural place to discuss t

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > This is simple to try and see what happens. > [X] or [XI] for X(cross) implementation. To allow easier transition to a separate list (if that seems necessary at a later date), my preferred colour for the bikeshed is [compatibility-sig]. I thi

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On 6/11/2012 11:13 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: 2. As 1, but we adopt a subject line convention to make it easier to filter out general python-dev traffic for those that are just interested in cross-vm questions (2) and (3) work for

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Monday, June 11, 2012, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Brett Cannon writes: > > > But we already have the various SIGs carry out discussions outside of > > python-dev and just bring forward their results to python-dev when they > are > > ready. Why would this list be any different? > > (1) Beca

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > 1. Asking on python-dev is considered adequate. If an implementation > wants to be consulted on changes, one or more of their developers > *must* follow python-dev sufficiently closely that they don't miss > cross-VM compatibility questions.

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

Brett Cannon writes: > But we already have the various SIGs carry out discussions outside of > python-dev and just bring forward their results to python-dev when they are > ready. Why would this list be any different? (1) Because AIUI the main problem this list is supposed to solve is cont

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Jun 11, 2012, at 04:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > >1. Asking on python-dev is considered adequate. If an implementation > >wants to be consulted on changes, one or more of their developers > >*must* follow python-dev sufficiently closely

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:35 PM, PJ Eby wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Jeff Hardy wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Eric Snow >> wrote: >> > Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3 >> > would have been the most effective by far. Of course, th

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Jun 11, 2012, at 04:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >1. Asking on python-dev is considered adequate. If an implementation >wants to be consulted on changes, one or more of their developers >*must* follow python-dev sufficiently closely that they don't miss >cross-VM compatibility questions. That's

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Jeff Hardy wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Eric Snow > wrote: > > Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3 > > would have been the most effective by far. Of course, the key thing > > is how closely the various implementors

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Eric Snow wrote: > Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3 > would have been the most effective by far.  Of course, the key thing > is how closely the various implementors would follow the new list. > Only they could say, though Frank W

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

Eric Snow gmail.com> writes: > > Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3 > would have been the most effective by far. Of course, the key thing > is how closely the various implementors would follow the new list. > Only they could say, though Frank Wierzbicki seemed

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> But what guarantee do you have that (a) the right people sign up for >> the new list, and (b) topics are correctly brought up there instead of >> on python-dev? I agree that python

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > But what guarantee do you have that (a) the right people sign up for > the new list, and (b) topics are correctly brought up there instead of > on python-dev? I agree that python-dev is turning into a firehose, but > I am reluctant to cre

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

But what guarantee do you have that (a) the right people sign up for the new list, and (b) topics are correctly brought up there instead of on python-dev? I agree that python-dev is turning into a firehose, but I am reluctant to create backwaters where people might arrive at what they think is a co

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

I am proposing a single list to just discuss multi-vm issues so that it doesn't force all other VM contributors to sign up for python-dev if they don't care about language issues. We could hijack the stdlib-sig mailing list, but that isn't the right focus necessarily. On Jun 10, 2012 8:42 PM, "Guid

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

Really? Are we now proposing multiple lists? That just makes it easier to miss stuff for me. On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> Well, the question is, are many python-dev discussions CPython(specific? >>> If not, then

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >> Well, the question is, are many python-dev discussions CPython(specific? >> If not, then it doesn't make a lot of sense to create python-implementations >> (and it's one more subscription to manage for those of us who want to keep >> an eye

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On 2012-06-08, at 20:29 , Brett Cannon wrote: > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:21 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> R. David already replied to this, but just to reiterate: tests can always >>> get updated, and code that fixes a bug (and l

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Friday, June 8, 2012, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Le 08/06/2012 20:29, Brett Cannon a écrit : > >> >> > P.S. Do we need a python-implementations mailing list or >>something for >> > discussing overall VM-related stuff among all VMs instead of >>always bringing >> > this up on py

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On 8/06/2012 9:29 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:21 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

Le 08/06/2012 20:29, Brett Cannon a écrit : > P.S. Do we need a python-implementations mailing list or something for > discussing overall VM-related stuff among all VMs instead of always bringing > this up on python-dev? E.g. I wish I had a place where I could get all

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Eric Snow wrote: > This would have been handy for feedback on sys.implementation. FWIW I followed the discussion and am happy with the result :) -Frank ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:21 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com > wrote: >> I think a python-implementations list would be a fantastic idea - I >> sometimes miss multi-implementation discussions in python-dev, or at >> least come in very late. > > > If

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:21 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com wrote: > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > R. David already replied to this, but just to reiterate: tests can always > > get updated, and code that fixes a bug (and leaving a file open can be > > considered a bug) can a

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > R. David already replied to this, but just to reiterate: tests can always > get updated, and code that fixes a bug (and leaving a file open can be > considered a bug) can also go in. It's just stuff like code refactoring, > speed improvements,

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 12:39 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com < fwierzbi...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Jeff Hardy wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Matti Picus > wrote: > >> > >> The windows port of pypy makes special demands on stdlib, specifically > that > >> files a

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 09:39:47 -0700, "fwierzbi...@gmail.com" wrote: > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Jeff Hardy wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Matti Picus wrote: > >> > >> The windows port of pypy makes special demands on stdlib, specifically that > >> files are explicitly closed. T

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Jeff Hardy wrote: > On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Matti Picus wrote: >> >> The windows port of pypy makes special demands on stdlib, specifically that >> files are explicitly closed. There are some other minor issues, in order to >> merge all the changes necessar

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Matti Picus wrote: > > The windows port of pypy makes special demands on stdlib, specifically that > files are explicitly closed. There are some other minor issues, in order to > merge all the changes necessary to get pypy windows up to speed, around 10 > modules or

[Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

The windows port of pypy makes special demands on stdlib, specifically that files are explicitly closed. There are some other minor issues, in order to merge all the changes necessary to get pypy windows up to speed, around 10 modules or at least their tests seem to need to be modified. I have be