On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
+- E -- downstream developer -+
| |
| +--+ V
source - build - A - B
Guido van Rossum wrote:
That's all good. I just don't think that a presentation in terms of
code in-lining is a good idea.
I was trying to describe it in a way that would give
some insight into *why* the various aspects of the
formal definition are the way they are. The inlining
concept
Nick Coghlan wrote:
I think the main thing that may be putting me off is the amount of
energy that went into deciding whether or not to emit Py3k warnings or
DeprecationWarning or PendingDeprecationWarning for use of the old
threading API.
Having made that decision, though, couldn't the
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Although the PEP may still want to mention how one would write *tests*
for these things. Will the test drivers themselves need to be generators
participating in some kind of trampoline setup?
I don't see that tests are fundamentally different
from any other code that wants
Trying to think of a better usage example that
combines send() with returning values, I've realized
that part of the problem is that I don't actually
know of any realistic uses for send() in the first
place.
Can anyone point me to any? Maybe it will help
to inspire a better example.
--
Greg
Le Thursday 26 March 2009 04:58:51 Tarek Ziadé, vous avez écrit :
- Here are the first results for the packaging survey:
http://tarekziade.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/packaging-survey-first-results/
How do you remove a package ?
Wow, 275 hits for manually and 79 for fail at uninstallation
--
Greg Ewing wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Although the PEP may still want to mention how one would write *tests*
for these things. Will the test drivers themselves need to be generators
participating in some kind of trampoline setup?
I don't see that tests are fundamentally different
from
Greg Ewing wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
I think the main thing that may be putting me off is the amount of
energy that went into deciding whether or not to emit Py3k warnings or
DeprecationWarning or PendingDeprecationWarning for use of the old
threading API.
Having made that decision,
Here's a new draft of the PEP. I've added a Motivation
section and removed any mention of inlining.
There is a new expansion that incorporates recent ideas,
including the suggested handling of StopIteration raised
by a throw() call (i.e. if it wasn't the one thrown in,
treat it as a return
Guido van Rossum guido at python.org writes:
That's stating it a little too strongly. Phillip has shown how with
judicious use of decorators and helper classes you can get a
reasonable approximation, and I think Twisted uses something like
this, so it's not just theory. I think the best you
On Mar 25, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
That is, the full workflow that should really be happening is
something like the following:
Developer(s)
|
V
(distutils/setuptools/pip/zc.buildout/etc)
2009/3/25 Tennessee Leeuwenburg tleeuwenb...@gmail.com:
I would suggest there may be three use cases for Python installation tools.
Bonus -- I'm not a web developer! :)
Case One: Developer wishing to install additional functionality into the
system Python interpreter forever
Case Two:
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
On Mar 25, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Olemis Lang wrote:
Yes you're right, Trac requires .egg files for local plugins installs
(... in /plugins folder ;) so that not all environments but only one
be able to use the plugin ... but
David Cournapeau wrote:
I won't argue for setuptools' implementation of multi-version. It
sucks. But multi-version can be done well. Sonames in C libraries are
a simple system that does this better.
I would say simplistic instead of simple :) what works for C won't
necessarily work for
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
I think Distutils (and therefore Setuptools) should provide some APIs
to play with special files (like resources) and to mark them as being special,
no matter where they end up in the target system.
So the code inside
At 09:24 PM 3/25/2009 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
ISTR that the motivation for adding new syntax is that the best you
can do using a trampoline library is still pretty cumbersome to use
when you have to write a lot of tasks and subtasks, and when using
tasks is just a tool for getting things
At 10:56 AM 3/26/2009 +, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Guido van Rossum guido at python.org writes:
That's stating it a little too strongly. Phillip has shown how with
judicious use of decorators and helper classes you can get a
reasonable approximation, and I think Twisted uses something like
Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
I think Distutils (and therefore Setuptools) should provide some APIs
to play with special files (like resources) and to mark them as being
special,
no matter where they end up in the target
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:07 AM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 09:24 PM 3/25/2009 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
ISTR that the motivation for adding new syntax is that the best you
can do using a trampoline library is still pretty cumbersome to use
when you have to write a lot of
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
2009/3/26 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com:
Depending on the definition of a resource there's additional
information that could be needed. For instance, if resource includes
message
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Terry Reedy wrote:
5. Much of this discussion reminds me of the debates between lumping and
splitting of taxonomic categories in biology. Like that debate, it will
continue forever.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing, only with respect to
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:19 AM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 10:56 AM 3/26/2009 +, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Guido van Rossum guido at python.org writes:
That's stating it a little too strongly. Phillip has shown how with
judicious use of decorators and helper classes you
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
2009/3/26 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com:
Depending on the definition of a resource there's additional
information that could be needed. For instance, if resource
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote:
I would suggest there may be three use cases for Python installation tools.
Bonus -- I'm not a web developer! :)
Case One: Developer wishing to install additional functionality into the
system Python interpreter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
One thing that /would/ be helpful though is the ability to list all
the
resources under a specific package path. This is (I think) one use
case
that pkg_resource fails to support and it's the
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
2009/3/26 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
I think Distutils (and therefore Setuptools) should provide some APIs
to
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
One thing that /would/ be helpful though is the ability to list all the
resources under a specific package path. This is
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
One thing that /would/ be helpful though is the ability to list all the
resources under a specific package path. This is
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Mar 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote:
For case one, where I want to install additional functionality into my
system Python
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:41 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I think shutil.copytree new ignore mechanism handles this use case
pretty well (see the ignore_patterns factory in
http://docs.python.org/library/shutil.html)
Maybe we could use the same pattern.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Mar 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote:
For case one, where I
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Paul Moore p.f.moore at gmail.com writes:
3. Setuptools, unfortunately, has divided the Python distribution
community quite badly.
Wait a
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Olemis Lang wrote:
One thing that /would/ be helpful though is the ability to list
all the
resources under a specific package path. This is (I think) one
use case
that pkg_resource fails to support and it's the one
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Mar 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote:
For case one, where I want to install additional functionality into my
system Python
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Olemis Lang wrote:
{{{
[x for x in dir(pkg_resources) if all(y in x for y in ['dir',
'resource_'])]
['resource_isdir', 'resource_listdir']
BTW, under a better name, I would support putting pkg_resources in the
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Olemis Lang wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Mar 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote:
For case one, where I want
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
s...@pobox.com wrote:
Tres Exactly: I never use easy_isntall to put packages into the system
Tres python. in fact, I only use it inside a virtalenv-generated
Tres isolated environment.
While standing in line for lunch today, someone
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Olemis Lang wrote:
One thing that /would/ be helpful though is the ability to list all the
resources under a specific package path. This is (I
2009/3/26 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org:
BTW, under a better name, I would support putting pkg_resources in the
stdlib.
Last time I looked it was an incredibly complicated piece of code that
would have to be refactored considerably before it would be
maintainable by the core developers. I never
I'm trying to get the powers that be at work to enable post-commit hooks for
our Subversion repositories. Here's the default, sans comments:
REPOS=$1
REV=$2
commit-email.pl $REPOS $REV commit-watch...@example.org
log-commit.py --repository $REPOS --revision $REV
Does Python's
At 12:27 PM 3/26/2009 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
There is some clear low-hanging fruit for Greg's proposal
where no trampoline or helpers are needed -- but where currently
refactoring complex code containing many yield statements is
cumbersome due to the nee to write each subroutine call as
2009/3/26 s...@pobox.com:
I'm trying to get the powers that be at work to enable post-commit hooks for
our Subversion repositories. Here's the default, sans comments:
REPOS=$1
REV=$2
commit-email.pl $REPOS $REV commit-watch...@example.org
log-commit.py --repository $REPOS
At 03:28 PM 3/26/2009 -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote:
2009/3/26 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org:
BTW, under a better name, I would support putting pkg_resources in the
stdlib.
Last time I looked it was an incredibly complicated piece of code that
would have to be refactored considerably before
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Olemis Lang wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org
wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Olemis Lang wrote:
One thing that /would/ be
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Olemis Lang wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org
wrote:
BTW, under a better name, I would support putting pkg_resources in
the
stdlib.
... or a subset of it ? or integrating its
My notes from the 2 to 3 porting session of Python Language Summit at
PyCon. There were some agreements in this session that people wanted
recorded. Happy to provide clarification in my notes aren't clear.
## python 2 to 3 migration
- 2to3 distutils flag (part of install or sdist)
- 2to3
2009/3/26 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org:
Let me clarify my position: I just want the functionality (preferably in the
stdlib); I don't really care how it's spelled (except please not
pkg_resource.whatever() :).
Agreed. My one major reservation is that conceptually, the whole
pkg_resource
At 11:27 PM 3/26/2009 +, Paul Moore wrote:
What I'd really like is essentially some form of virtual filesystem
access to stuff addressed relative to a Python package name,
Note that relative to a *Python package name* isn't quite as useful,
due to namespace packages. To be unambiguous as
An ars technica articla just linked to in a python-list post
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/google-launches-project-to-boost-python-performance-by-5x.ars
calls the following project Google launched
http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/wiki/ProjectPlan
(Though the project
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:49 PM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 11:27 PM 3/26/2009 +, Paul Moore wrote:
What I'd really like is essentially some form of virtual filesystem
access to stuff addressed relative to a Python package name,
Note that relative to a *Python package
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
There seems to be a misunderstanding as to how generators
are used in Twisted. There isn't a global trampoline to schedule generators
around. Instead, generators are wrapped with a decorator (*) which collects each
yielded value (it's a Deferred object) and attaches to it a
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 4:33 PM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 03:28 PM 3/26/2009 -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote:
2009/3/26 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org:
BTW, under a better name, I would support putting pkg_resources in the
stdlib.
Last time I looked it was an incredibly
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Mar 26, 2009, at 10:07 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
If it really is a common habit to have single-file modules with
associated data files directly rooted under a namespace package, we
could change the API to allow passing in a module and have it
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 18:05, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
An ars technica articla just linked to in a python-list post
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/google-launches-project-to-boost-python-performance-by-5x.ars
calls the following project Google launched
Guido van Rossum wrote:
I'll gladly take that as an added rationalization of my plea not to
change datetime.
In the case of datetime, could perhaps just the
module name be changed so that it's not the same
as a name inside the module? Maybe call it
date_time or date_and_time.
--
Greg
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
Here's a new draft of the PEP. I've added a Motivation
section and removed any mention of inlining.
There is a new expansion that incorporates recent ideas,
including the suggested handling of StopIteration raised
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 4:19 PM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 12:27 PM 3/26/2009 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
There is some clear low-hanging fruit for Greg's proposal
where no trampoline or helpers are needed -- but where currently
refactoring complex code containing many yield
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
An ars technica articla just linked to in a python-list post
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/google-launches-project-to-boost-python-performance-by-5x.ars
calls the following project Google launched
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Greg Ewing
greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
I'll gladly take that as an added rationalization of my plea not to
change datetime.
In the case of datetime, could perhaps just the
module name be changed so that it's not the same
as a
At 10:39 PM 3/26/2009 -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote:
That +0 could turn into a +1 if there was a way to flag this as an
error (at runtime), at least if the return is actually executed:
def g():
yield 42
return 43
for x in g():
print x# probably expected to print 42 and then 43
At 04:08 PM 3/27/2009 +1300, Greg Ewing wrote:
You can't expect to improve something like that by
stuffing yield-from into the existing framework, because
the point of yield-from is to render the framework
itself unnecessary.
But it doesn't. You still need *something* that processes the
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Can I suggest that API this takes a glob-style pattern?
Globs would be nice to have, but the minimum
needed is some kind of listdir-like functionality.
Globbing can be built on that if need be.
--
Greg
___
Python-Dev mailing
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Collin Winter coll...@gmail.com wrote:
In fact, right now I'm adding a last few tests before putting our cPickle
patches up on the tracker for further review.
Put me in the nosy list when you do; and when I get some free time, I
will give your patches a
Olemis Lang wrote:
... well ... it is too long ... :-§ ... perhaps it is better this way ...
--lmdtbicdfyeiwdimoweiiiapiyssiansey ... :P
Isn't that the name of a town in Wales somewhere?
--
Greg
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Alexandre Vassalotti
alexan...@peadrop.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Collin Winter coll...@gmail.com wrote:
In fact, right now I'm adding a last few tests before putting our cPickle
patches up on the tracker for further review.
Put me in the
P.J. Eby wrote:
As someone else suggested, moving some of the functionality to PEP 302
interfaces would also help. Most of the code, though, deals with
locating/inspecting installed distributions, resolving version
requirements, and managing sys.path. And most of the nastiest
complexity
Guido van Rossum wrote:
(Well here is Greg's requested use case for .send(). :-)
There was a complaint that my return-value-with-send
example was too much of a coroutine scenario, so I
was hoping to find something un-coroutine-like. But
if coroutines are the main uses for send in the first
P.J. Eby wrote:
And they *still* wouldn't be able to do away with their trampolines --
It's not really about doing away with trampolines anyway.
You still need at least one trampoline-like thing at the
top. What you do away with is the need for creating
special objects to yield, and the
P.J. Eby wrote:
In particular, it should explain why these choices are so costly as to
justify new syntax and a complex implementation:
If avoiding trampolines was the only reason for
yield-from, that mightn't be enough justification
on its own. But it addresses several other use
cases as
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Since correctly written generators are permitted to
convert GeneratorExit to StopIteration, the 'yield from' expression
should detect when that has happened and reraise the original exception.
I'll have to think about that a bit, but you're
probably right.
it is also
On 26 Mar, 07:22 pm, ba...@python.org wrote:
One thing that /would/ be helpful though is the ability to list all
the resources under a specific package path. This is (I think) one
use case that pkg_resource fails to support and it's the one place
that I've had to drop down to file system
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 4:19 PM, P.J. Eby wrote:
What I don't like is the confusion of adding return values to generators,
at least using the 'return' statement.
At Fri Mar 27 04:39:48 CET 2009, Guido van Rossum replied:
I'm +1 on yield from and +0 on return values in generators.
def g():
Guido van Rossum wrote:
That +0 could turn into a +1 if there was a way to flag this as an
error (at runtime), at least if the return is actually executed:
def g():
yield 42
return 43
for x in g():
print x# probably expected to print 42 and then 43
Perhaps the exception used
73 matches
Mail list logo
