[Python-Dev] In case you're wondering about 3.5.10rc1

2020-07-04 Thread Larry Hastings
It's held up on SSL.  Ubuntu 20.04 changed some security parameter tunings, which breaks some uses of the SSL module, and approximately eight modules in the test suite.  I assume this wasn't caught on the buildbots because they don't use Ubuntu--or at least not a build that fresh.  SSL and t

[Python-Dev] Re: In case you're wondering about 3.5.10rc1

2020-07-04 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 04.07.2020 10:01, Larry Hastings wrote: It's held up on SSL.  Ubuntu 20.04 changed some security parameter tunings, which breaks some uses of the SSL module, and approximately eight modules in the test suite.  I assume this wasn't caught on the buildbots because they don't use Ubuntu--or

[Python-Dev] Re: In case you're wondering about 3.5.10rc1

2020-07-04 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 00:01:56 -0700 Larry Hastings wrote: > It's held up on SSL.  Ubuntu 20.04 changed some security parameter > tunings, which breaks some uses of the SSL module, and approximately > eight modules in the test suite.  I assume this wasn't caught on the > buildbots because they don

[Python-Dev] Re: In case you're wondering about 3.5.10rc1

2020-07-04 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 13:16:50 +0200 Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 00:01:56 -0700 > Larry Hastings wrote: > > It's held up on SSL.  Ubuntu 20.04 changed some security parameter > > tunings, which breaks some uses of the SSL module, and approximately > > eight modules in the test suite

[Python-Dev] Re: In case you're wondering about 3.5.10rc1

2020-07-04 Thread Larry Hastings
Python 3.5.9 has the same problems on Ubuntu 20.04 as 3.5.10. //arry/ On 7/4/20 4:53 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 13:16:50 +0200 Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 00:01:56 -0700 Larry Hastings wrote: It's held up on SSL.  Ubuntu 20.04 changed some security paramete

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-07-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
@Inada-sama: For RFC conformance to S&W, see footnote [3] at the end. MRAB writes: > If you believe you have something important to say, then at least > say it clearly. Indeed -- that commit log is an example of the kind of writing the reference to Strunk & White was intended to reduce; repeti

[Python-Dev] [Suspected Spam]Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
MRAB writes: > It's also like saying that you shouldn't split infinitives Amusingly, Strunk (1918) was perfectly happy with split infinitives, though he noted it centered whiteness. (Obviously he didn't put it that way, more along the lines of "some people will look down on you.") In general,

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg Ewing writes: > On 4/07/20 4:33 am, Jim J. Jewett wrote: > > If Bob and Alice seem neutral to you, would you do a double-take > > on Kehinde or Oladotun? > > Maybe we should use randomly generated names for hypothetical > persons? Randomly generated according to what character repertoi

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread MRAB
On 2020-07-04 05:51, Greg Ewing wrote: On 4/07/20 4:33 am, Jim J. Jewett wrote: If Bob and Alice seem neutral to you, would you do a double-take on Kehinde or Oladotun? Maybe we should use randomly generated names for hypothetical persons? Ideally they should be short names, one or two syll

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-07-04 Thread MRAB
On 2020-07-04 16:23, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: @Inada-sama: For RFC conformance to S&W, see footnote [3] at the end. MRAB writes: > If you believe you have something important to say, then at least > say it clearly. Indeed -- that commit log is an example of the kind of writing the refere

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread Paul Moore
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 17:48, MRAB wrote: > > On 2020-07-04 05:51, Greg Ewing wrote: > > On 4/07/20 4:33 am, Jim J. Jewett wrote: > >> If Bob and Alice seem neutral to you, would you do a double-take on > >> Kehinde or Oladotun? > > > > Maybe we should use randomly generated names for hypothetical

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-07-04 Thread Martin Dengler
On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 05:51:04PM +0100, MRAB wrote: I'd also add: Try to avoid regionalisms; aim for a broadly "international" form of the language. Some How do you spell "regionalism"? Martin PS: Irony intended ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- pyt

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread MRAB
On 2020-07-04 19:23, Paul Moore wrote: On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 17:48, MRAB wrote: > > On 2020-07-04 05:51, Greg Ewing wrote: > > On 4/07/20 4:33 am, Jim J. Jewett wrote: > >> If Bob and Alice seem neutral to you, would you do a double-take on Kehinde or Oladotun? > > > > Maybe we should use ran

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-07-04 Thread MRAB
On 2020-07-04 21:07, Martin Dengler wrote: On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 05:51:04PM +0100, MRAB wrote: >I'd also add: Try to avoid regionalisms; aim for a >broadly "international" form of the language. Some How do you spell "regionalism"? Martin PS: Irony intended As far as I'm aware, there's o

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread Greg Ewing
On 5/07/20 3:26 am, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Greg Ewing writes: > Maybe we should use randomly generated names for hypothetical > persons? Randomly generated according to what character repertoire and lexical rules (I'm not talking about British v. American)? Randomly selected ones! --

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-07-04 Thread Shantanu Jain
Thank you for this PEP! Pattern matching is really exciting. As the PEP mentions and the thread evidences, the current dot syntax for the “constant value pattern” is a tricky point. Given this, I thought I’d throw another suggestion into the bikeshed. Use percent placeholder to indicate lookup (o

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-07-04 Thread Shantanu Jain
Thank you for this PEP! Pattern matching is really exciting. As the PEP mentions and the thread evidences, the current dot syntax for the “constant value pattern” is a tricky point. Given this, I thought I’d throw another suggestion into the bikeshed. Use percent placeholder to indicate lookup (o

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-07-04 Thread Emily Bowman
I don't see how this extrapolates to arbitrary, extended match expressions? You're proposing a slightly more flexible switch, which match is only intended to be as the most basic case. Even if you purely swapped it out with any the various proposals for identifying a constant vs a target, it's sti

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread Greg Ewing
On 5/07/20 8:23 am, MRAB wrote: On 2020-07-04 19:23, Paul Moore wrote: Surely the obvious thing to do would be to use Monty Python characters? True, but if they were all called Eric it could be confusing. Also the Monty Python team were all white, so it wouldn't really solve the problem. --

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-07-04 Thread Greg Ewing
On 5/07/20 8:30 am, MRAB wrote: On 2020-07-04 21:07, Martin Dengler wrote: How do you spell "regionalism"? As far as I'm aware, there's only one way to spell it, I suppose there could be some planet where it's spelled "regionalizm". -- Greg ___ Pyt

[Python-Dev] Re: [Suspected Spam]Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread Greg Ewing
On 5/07/20 3:24 am, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Amusingly, Strunk (1918) was perfectly happy with split infinitives, though he noted it centered whiteness. (Obviously he didn't put it that way, more along the lines of "some people will look down on you.") Um... what? Are you saying that people

[Python-Dev] Re: [Suspected Spam]Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-04 Thread Emily Bowman
On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 5:37 PM Greg Ewing wrote: > On 5/07/20 3:24 am, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Amusingly, Strunk (1918) was perfectly happy with split infinitives, > > though he noted it centered whiteness. (Obviously he didn't put it > > that way, more along the lines of "some people wil

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-07-04 Thread Shantanu Jain
Apologies if I misunderstand anything, but my suggestion was just an alternative to the dot syntax for constant value patterns (which along with literal patterns are how PEP 622’s proposes to to cover the “more flexible switch” use case). This syntax is more verbose than PEP 622’s dot syntax for i

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-07-04 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 12:03 PM Shantanu Jain wrote: > - Finally, I did mention increasing the scope of constant value patterns to > accommodate expressions (as opposed to just dotted names). If we were to do > this, it’s a reason to prefer some syntaxes for constant value patterns over > other

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-07-04 Thread Shantanu Jain
Caveats: - Any expression (unless you allow reference to variables previously bound by the match statement) can just be aliased (as long as you don’t need short circuiting), so it’s not a critical feature. Constant value patterns are the most easily replaceable by if/elif part of PEP 622. - I’m sur

[Python-Dev] Tips: Searching deprecated API usage.

2020-07-04 Thread Inada Naoki
Hi, folks. After 3.9 becomes beta, I am searching deprecated APIs we can remove in Python 3.10. I want to share how I am checking how the API is not used. Please teach me if you know an easy and better approach to find deprecated API usage. ## Sourcegraph Github code search is not powerful enou