[Python-Dev] Happy 30th Birthday, Python!

2021-02-21 Thread Larry Hastings
I guess we forgot to observe it yesterday, but: February 19, 1991, was the day Guido first posted Python 0.9.1 to alt.sources: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sources/c/O2ZSq7DiOwM/m/gcJTvCA27lMJ Happy 30th birthday, Python! //arry/ ___ Python

[Python-Dev] Re: Security releases of CPython

2021-02-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Mike Miller writes: > Sounds like automating until it is "just a push of a button," > should be a goal. According to Victor there has been progress, but > always room for more. When XEmacs was releasing betas regularly, everything from tagging the local authoritative repo to pushing to the pub

[Python-Dev] Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Victor Stinner
Hi, I propose to actively remove support for *legacy* platforms and architectures which are not supported by Python according to PEP 11 rules: hardware no longer sold and end-of-life operating systems. The removal should be discussed on a case by case basis, but I would like to get an agreement on

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Christian Heimes
On 21/02/2021 13.13, Victor Stinner wrote: > Hi, > > I propose to actively remove support for *legacy* platforms and > architectures which are not supported by Python according to PEP 11 > rules: hardware no longer sold and end-of-life operating systems. The > removal should be discussed on a case

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread glaubitz
(Since my first reply here somehow got lost, I'm posting this again). Rust doesn't prevent anyone from building Tier 2 or Tier 3 targets. There is no limitation for "legacy" or "deprecated" targets. Any target can be built and any target can be selected by the Rust compiler for cross-compliation

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread glaubitz
Rust doesn't keep any user from building Rust for Tier 2 or Tier 3 platforms. There is no separate configure guard. All platforms that Rust can build for, are always enabled by default. No one in Rust keeps anyone from cross-compiling code for sparc64 or powerpcspe, for example. So if you want

[Python-Dev] Re: Happy 30th Birthday, Python!

2021-02-21 Thread Senthil Kumaran
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 12:05 AM Larry Hastings wrote: > I guess we forgot to observe it yesterday, but: February 19, 1991, was the > day Guido first posted Python 0.9.1 to alt.sources: > > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sources/c/O2ZSq7DiOwM/m/gcJTvCA27lMJ > > Happy 30th birthday, Python! Happ

[Python-Dev] Inadequate error reporting during function call setup stage

2021-02-21 Thread Paul Sokolovsky
Hello, Here's example: Traceback (most recent call last): File "pseudoc_tool.py", line 91, in first_class_function_value(func, **pass_params) TypeError: print() got an unexpected keyword argument 'noann' Ok, which "print" do you mean, dear CPython? I have a dozen of print functions (most

[Python-Dev] Re: Deprecate support for mingw - add to PEP 11

2021-02-21 Thread Dan Stromberg
It looks like CPython remains 100% C, so clang becomes more attractive: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6329688/llvm-and-visual-studio-obj-binary-incompatibility Then again, do we allow C++ extension modules? That might make C++ more relevant, even if CPython itself is purely C. On Sat, Feb

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Christian Heimes
On 21/02/2021 13.47, glaub...@debian.org wrote: > Rust doesn't keep any user from building Rust for Tier 2 or Tier 3 platforms. > There is no separate configure guard. All platforms that Rust can build for, > are always enabled by default. No one in Rust keeps anyone from > cross-compiling code

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Michał Górny
On Sun, 2021-02-21 at 19:12 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 21/02/2021 13.47, glaub...@debian.org wrote: > > Rust doesn't keep any user from building Rust for Tier 2 or Tier 3 > > platforms. There is no separate configure guard. All platforms that Rust > > can build for, are always enabled by

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Michał Górny
On Sun, 2021-02-21 at 13:35 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 21/02/2021 13.13, Victor Stinner wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I propose to actively remove support for *legacy* platforms and > > architectures which are not supported by Python according to PEP 11 > > rules: hardware no longer sold and end

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Gregory P. Smith
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 10:15 AM Christian Heimes wrote: > On 21/02/2021 13.47, glaub...@debian.org wrote: > > Rust doesn't keep any user from building Rust for Tier 2 or Tier 3 > platforms. There is no separate configure guard. All platforms that Rust > can build for, are always enabled by defau

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Gregory P. Smith
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 12:03 PM Michał Górny wrote: > On Sun, 2021-02-21 at 13:35 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote: > > On 21/02/2021 13.13, Victor Stinner wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I propose to actively remove support for *legacy* platforms and > > > architectures which are not supported by Pyt

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Dan Stromberg
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 1:07 PM Gregory P. Smith wrote: > > > I'm +1 in general for your proposal. I also like the idea to adopt >> > Rust's platform support definition. >> > +1, but see below. > > The main thing from a project maintenance perspective is for platforms to > not become a burden t

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread Dan Stromberg
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 4:16 AM Victor Stinner wrote: > > There is also a 4th category: platforms/archs which are really not > supported, like they legacy ones for which we removed the code :-) > Examples: BeOS, MacOS 9, platforms with no thread support, etc. > FWIW, BeOS may be resurfacing some

[Python-Dev] Re: Inadequate error reporting during function call setup stage

2021-02-21 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/21/2021 12:04 PM, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: Traceback (most recent call last): File "pseudoc_tool.py", line 91, in first_class_function_value(func, **pass_params) TypeError: print() got an unexpected keyword argument 'noann' This is not typical behavior in current Python (3.8+). de

[Python-Dev] Re: Deprecate support for mingw - add to PEP 11

2021-02-21 Thread Emily Bowman
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 10:02 AM Dan Stromberg wrote: > > It looks like CPython remains 100% C, so clang becomes more attractive: > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6329688/llvm-and-visual-studio-obj-binary-incompatibility > > Then again, do we allow C++ extension modules? That might make C

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 597 bikeshedding: envvar / option name.

2021-02-21 Thread Inada Naoki
Thank you for all. I finally submit the PEP 597 with PYTHONWARNDEFAULTENCODING / warn_default_encoding. On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 2:28 PM Inada Naoki wrote: > > I am updating PEP 597 to include discussions in the thread. > Before finishing the PEP, I need to decide the option name. > > I used PYTH

[Python-Dev] Doctest crashes on unittest.call import. bpo-35753

2021-02-21 Thread Alfred Perlstein
Hello, I am trying to sort out what can be done for  bpo-35753 / https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22981 Basically any module that does "from unittest.mock import call" will crash the doctest scanner. At this point I'm not sure how to proceed at this point, there is some different ideas

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread glaubitz
There are zero technical reasons for what you are planning here. You are inflating a few lines of autoconf into a "platform support", so you have a reason to justify adding multiple lines of extra autoconf codes to make life for downstream distributions harder. I could understand the maintenanc

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-21 Thread glaubitz
> The main thing from a project maintenance perspective is for platforms to not become a burden to other code maintainers. PRs need to be reviewed. Every #if/#endif in code is a cognitive burden. So being a minor platform can come with unexpected breakages that need fixing due to other changes ma