[Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Mark Shannon
At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, the API grew considerably. See http://docs.python.org/release/3.1/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling and http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling The Unicode Exception Objects section is new and

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 09.02.2011 10:09, schrieb Mark Shannon: At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, the API grew considerably. See http://docs.python.org/release/3.1/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling and http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Mark Shannon
Georg Brandl wrote: Am 09.02.2011 10:09, schrieb Mark Shannon: At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, the API grew considerably. See http://docs.python.org/release/3.1/c-api/exceptions.html#exception-handling and

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Georg Brandl
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 (Not sure if your message went to python-dev too.) Am 09.02.2011 11:04, schrieb Mark Shannon: Georg Brandl wrote: Am 09.02.2011 10:09, schrieb Mark Shannon: At sometime between versions 3.1 and the current version, 3.1.3, the API grew

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 10:37:11 + Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk wrote: Why redundant? Because they are all attribute getter and setters. For example: PyUnicodeDecodeError_GetStart(exc, x) = PyObject_GetAttr(exc, start, x) This sort of redundancy seems sensible for list, tuple

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Mark Shannon wrote: The Unicode Exception Objects section is new and seemingly redundant: http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#unicode-exception-objects Should this be in the public API? Those function have been in the public API since we introduced Unicode callbak error handlers.

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Mark Shannon
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Mark Shannon wrote: The Unicode Exception Objects section is new and seemingly redundant: http://docs.python.org/py3k/c-api/exceptions.html#unicode-exception-objects Should this be in the public API? Those function have been in the public API since we introduced Unicode

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk wrote: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things. Don't forget that for each function added to the API, all other implementations have to support it

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread exarkun
On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk wrote: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things. Don't forget that for each function added to the API, all other

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2011/2/9 exar...@twistedmatrix.com: On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk wrote: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things. Don't forget that for each

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:03 PM, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk wrote: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2011/2/9 Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things. Don't forget that for each function added to the API, all other implementations have to support it forever. The C-API is about the

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
On 09/02/2011 14:00, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2011/2/9 Mark Shannonma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort of argument could be made for lots of things. Don't forget that for each function added to the API, all other implementations have to

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Michael Foord
On 09/02/2011 13:59, Nick Coghlan wrote: [snip...] And, since the C API has never been anywhere near as tightly controlled as the language definition, alternative implementations are going to garner more sympathy if they restrict their concerns to the growth of the stable ABI rather than

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread exarkun
On 01:59 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:03 PM, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 12:43 pm, ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk wrote: OK, so UnicodeError_xxx is important for codecs, but surely this sort

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:11:43 + Mark Shannon ma...@dcs.gla.ac.uk wrote: Various others have been added: int Py_EnterRecursiveCall(char *where) void Py_LeaveRecursiveCall() int Py_ReprEnter(PyObject *object) void Py_ReprLeave(PyObject *object) Again, they haven't been added. They have

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 14:13:11 - exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: And, since the C API has never been anywhere near as tightly controlled as the language definition, alternative implementations are going to garner more sympathy if they restrict their concerns to the growth of the stable ABI

[Python-Dev] python 3.2 (fwd)

2011-02-09 Thread skip
Passing this along from webmaster. S ---BeginMessage--- Not sure who to address this question to. Would you please forward it as you feel is appropriate? The python 3.2 release notes say that it compiles against sqlite 2.6. Does that mean it includes the pysqlite 2.6 module which links

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3.2 (fwd)

2011-02-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/9/2011 12:32 PM, s...@pobox.com wrote: Passing this along from webmaster. It is hard to reply to an attachment rather than inline forwarded message. However, with rc1 import sqlite3 sqlite3.version '2.6.0' sqlite3.sqlite_version '3.7.4' I added 'pysqlite' to the What's new entry.

Re: [Python-Dev] API bloat

2011-02-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
The functions may have been add to CPython 8 years ago, but they were added to the API when they appeared in the docs, between 3.1 and 3.1.3. How is the API defined, if not by the documentation? Just to stress and support Georg's explanation: the API is *not* defined through the

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:17:51 +0100 brett.cannon python-check...@python.org wrote: -One should always work from a checkout of the CPython source code. While it may +One should always work from a working copy of the CPython source code. +While it may be tempting to work from the

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:29, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:17:51 +0100 brett.cannon python-check...@python.org wrote: -One should always work from a checkout of the CPython source code. While it may +One should always work from a working copy of the

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
-To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you need to checkout the source -code. To get a read-only checkout of +To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you need a working copy the +source code. To get a read-only checkout of Why talk about checkout at all?

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Éric Araujo
Le 09/02/2011 23:49, Brett Cannon a écrit : On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:29, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: -To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you need to checkout the source -code. To get a read-only checkout of +To get a read-only checkout of CPython's source, you

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Fix a silly statement.

2011-02-09 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 09.02.2011 23:58, schrieb brett.cannon: brett.cannon pushed 7101df1bd817 to devguide: http://hg.python.org/devguide/rev/7101df1bd817 changeset: 291:7101df1bd817 branch: hg_transition tag: tip user:Brett Cannon br...@python.org date:Wed Feb 09 14:58:17

Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: More clarifications: use the term 'working copy' and mention 'hg update'.

2011-02-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/9/2011 3:29 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Why talk about checkout at all? It's an SVN/CVS/RCS term, if I'm not mistaken (even though it may occasionally be used with hg, it's a synonym of working copy there). I believe it harkens back to early source code control systems where one person