arbitrarily-long lines in its logfile is already insane, and
should be scrapped.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: Gnu
it as an excuse to cripple the stdlib!)
Part of this discussion is about not *expanding* the stdlib: give a
reasonable packaging story, leaving a given component out of the library
is a defensible choice.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Lie Ryan wrote:
> Tres Seaver wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Paul Moore wrote:
>>> 2009/3/13 Chris Withers :
>>>> If a decent package management system *was* include
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Lie Ryan wrote:
> Tres Seaver wrote:
>> I'm not arguing that employees should violate their employers' policies:
>> I'm arguing that Python itself shouldn't try to cater to such policies.
>
> Basically you&
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Tres Seaver wrote:
>> You are plainly joking: nothing in Python should know or care about the
>> various bureaucratic insanities in some workplaces. Given the
>> *existing* stdlib and network connectivity,
post via gmane, and leave python-dev CC'ed so
that folks who read via the list don't have their replies to me fall off
list (which happens on some lists, anyway).
I will trim the CC in the future, and hope for the best.
Tres.
- --
===
asks which
are unsupported or poorly supported by distutils / setuptools (e.g.,
installing non-Python software using "configure-make-make install",
generating config files, etc.)
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver
nts repeatably.
The "use .deb / .rpm / Windows installer" answer just moves the effort
around (and adds to it, in my experience), because in that world I end
up running the equivalent of a PyPI index anyway: I can't rely on an
upstream distro to package the correct versions for me, o
ch lays
down a bunch of egg-based packages in a cross-platform way (Windows,
MacOSX, Linux, BSDs). It uses zc.buildout, which makes
configuration-driven (repeatable) installation of add-ons easy.
[1] http://plone.org/products/plone
Tres.
- --
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David Cournapeau wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>
>> Many of us using setuptools extensively tend to adopt an "isolated
>> environment" strategy (e.g., pip, virtualenv, zc.buildout). We d
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David Cournapeau wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>
>>> Everytime I tried to understand what buildout was about, I was not
>>> even sure it could help for my own problems at all. It seems
avors composition of smaller pieces via a
simple API: a given deployment can add stuff like profiling, etc. just
be adding a new "layer" in the pipeline. Putting the profiler into a
larger package would make it less likely to be used across frameworks.
Tres.
- --
=
kaged kernel on lkml, for instance).
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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espect to
paleoanthropology: "chunkers" and "splitters" are perpetually at war
there, too.
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence
ns. The model that eclipse takes, with a "base" system and plugins,
> but with flavoured versions available (i.e. Scientic Python Distribution to
> include SciPy, Numpy and MatPlotLib for example).
>
> Thoughts?
I like the summary, and the idea of 'contrib' distri
Exactly: I never use easy_isntall to put packages into the system
python. in fact, I only use it inside a virtalenv-generated isolated
environment.
Tres.
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===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion
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Olemis Lang wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>> On Mar 25, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote:
ve
to type 'sudo' to make it happen is a sufficient reminder. ;)
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
--
fast after N == 1.
Tres.
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Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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Comment: Using GnuPG with
and
> Provides and and install_requires)
'Provides' could actually be a potentially useful missing feature in
setuptools, if it meant "virtual distutils project" rather than
"specific module or package."
Tres.
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===
iteups on that thread: both in tone and
in content I found them extremely helpful.
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://pall
,
ZODB.POSException defines a ConflictError type which takes 'message' as
one of several arguments, all optional, and has since at least 2002.
I don't think either of these classes should be subject to a deprecation
warning for a feature they never used or depended on.
Tres.
- --
to 2.7+.
>>
>> --David
>
> I know it wasn't a hard and fast rule; also, with 3to2 already being
> worked on, the barrier of maintenance and back porting is going to be
> lowered.
My understanding from the summit is that the only point in a 2.7 release
at all is to lowe
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Tres Seaver wrote:
>> I don't think either of these classes should be subject to a deprecation
>> warning for a feature they never used or depended on.
>
> Agreed. Could you raise a tracker issue for
s leaving the
>> 'python' alias alone. There is no "python3" alias unless a user creates
>> it for themselves (or a distro packager does it for them).
>
> I've actually implemented a python3 alias for 3.1.
>
>> I see a few options:
>
hat filenames can’t contain
byte 0 (because this is the terminator).
[1] http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/fixing-unix-linux-filenames.html
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladio
f
separately-released packages referred to as the "Zope Toolkit,"[1] which
is intended to be used by Zope2, Grok, and the folks still running the
"pure" Zope3 appserver.
A lot of the work involved in this effort has been in disentagling the
dependencies among the various package
he package
wasn't clear: the apps broken by the change were forced to rely on
stuff that the subsequent maintainer considered "implementation details."
Tres.
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===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999
hould be handled
> directly in the RECORD file (as in the current PEP) or by writing a "."
> into PREFIXES to indicate relative paths.
Per discussion with Matthias Klose, it would be useful to split out the
following prefixes for "special" kinds of data:
- - docs
- - i
ools to install things into
/opt/PythonX.Y/lib/pythonX.y/site-packages, which is certainly not an
"OS controlled directory."
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion So
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David Lyon wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:41:41 -0400, Tres Seaver
> wrote:
>> Consider the case where the user has built a separate python (e.g., to
>> avoid conflicting with the OS version) in /opt/PythonX.y: are you
>&
reate a type that
> does that. And, if it is a common pattern, then it could be added to the
> module later in life.
Agreed.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://pallad
ng such a
complex feature would be a huge backward step.
The idea that the "system" python should be polluted with whatever-any-
random-app-decides-to-throw-into-it is a source of endless pain,
confusion, and hair loss.
Tres.
- --
switches out of a possible
100,000, with sys.checkinterval set to 100.
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
-BEGIN
ef bar(self):
'''Get a bar.'''
@MyProp
def baz(self):
'''Get a baz.'''
print SlottedFoo.bar.__doc__
print SlottedFoo.baz.__doc__
That being said, I can't this bug as a release blocker: people can
rt bugs for any Python version in the Python tracker.
>
> http://bugs.python.org
Congratulations, and thaks for working to correct the issues with the
earlier release so quickly.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-
ith a tie" crowd (I
think that was the name of the IPC BoF from which the original feedback
coalesced).
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by D
t you can just
> customize for a specific purpose. Sounds like an interesting project,
> actually.
The appstore analogy actually helps Jesse's case" "iFart in your
general direction." (iFart is the top-rated app). Popularity and
quality aren't related in
s a mistake. (There's no guidance
> that you need to log in to see the poll for example)
I can see the information about the poll, and a link to view the
results, without logging in.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi
(second paragraph there). That paragraph tells you that you need to log
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P.J. Eby wrote:
> At 09:45 AM 11/14/2009 +0100, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>> Paul Moore wrote:
>>> 2009/11/13 Tres Seaver :
>>>> I can see the information about the poll, and a link to view the
>>>> re
fix.
>
> So, it sounds like a bad idea now :)
Parsing the Makefile at runtime seems like an insane choice anyway to
me: +1 for your new module having constants generated at ./configure time.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver
or 12 or 18 months
> later. :)
>
> Cc:ing zope-dev for opinions.
+1 in general to the idea: we should be able to put together a
"buildcompat"-style buildout which would be autoamatable under buildbot.
Tres.
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=========
e next field
> description would make the field descriptions much easier to read.
Hmm, I thought we were following stock ReST formats: perhaps the CSS
should be adjusted to give a larger leading space to headings?
Tres.
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===
T
called x.y.0, (does not sys.version
> include 0?) then x.y would unambiguously mean the series.
This syntax is not just for the 'Requires-Python:' field, but also for
the 'Requires-Dist:' and 'Obsoletes-Dist:' fields: not all third-party
packages call the firs
"Requires-Python: 3" is equivalent to "Requires-Python: ~=
> 3"
> which is equivalent to "Requires-Python: 3.x.x"
>
Point of order: what is the point of sending the discussion off to the
distutils SIG if we are just going to bikeshed it (again!
hich use four.
> Requires-Python: 3 ==> Python 3 (no
> matter wich one)
> Requires-Python: >=2.6,<3 ==> Any version of Python
> 2.6.x or 2.7.x (and 2.8.x if it exists one day)
> Requires-Python: 2.6.2
ther distutils or
> freebsd to determine if this is the correct solution).
I wouldn't say it needed discussion on the SIG: just create a bug
report, with the tentative patch you have worked out, and get it
assigned to Tarek.
Tres.
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=====
y, but it exists *everywhere* in the wild:
Python would do wll to make it as easy as possible to consume such
files, as well as the non-insane versions (UTF-16 / UTF-32 BOMs). In
the best of all possible worlds, I would just try opening the file so:
f = open('/path/to/file', '
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:12 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>> The BOM should not be seekeable if the file is opened with the proposed
>> "guess encoding from BOM" mode: it isn't properly part of the
ms f, you'd have:
>
> 1. guess encoding
>
> import codecs
> encoding = codecs.guess_stream_encoding(f)
>
> 2. wrap the stream with a reader for the found encoding
>
> reader_class = codecs.getreader(encoding)
> g = reader_class(f)
>
Tres.
- --
==
, and for compatibility, it can't stop doing that. So the UTF-8
> signature gives them an exit strategy.
Agreed. Having that marker at the start of the file makes interop with
other tools *much* easier.
Tres.
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===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999
some.zip', encoding='UTF8')
i.e., you discover the error when you try to read from the (non)encoded
stream, not when you open it.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://pall
x27;
which is likely a simple one-line fix, if I only knew what the hell it
was whining about. ;) The warning is extra obnoxious because it doesn't
tell me what in *my* code triggers the warning (it (needs a 'stacklevel'
argument).
Tres.
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Tres Seaver wrote:
>> There is an obnoxious deprecation warning out of the distutils:
>>
>> DeprecationWarning: 'compiler' specifies the compiler type in
>> build_ext. If you want t
e sources at all.
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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do we get a pony to atlanta
> 2> Later deliver it to Mountain View
Majyk Ponies are TSA-pre-approved. ;)
> 3> Get it to review patches?
That one is easy: we offer it five handfuls of hay for every patch it
reviews.
Tres.
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======
of like writing libc syscalls in
assembler rather than C.
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
-BEGIN P
y playing whack-a-mole with the edge cases.
Tres.
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Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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Ve
n text mode without specifying an
> encoding ?!
That ounds like a good plan to me, given that backward-compatibility
requires keeping the guessing enabled by default.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellenc
P-UX, AIX, and Solaris with non-GCC
compilers, as well as Windows when different VC RT libraries got into
the mix.
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellenc
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Jeffrey Yasskin wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Collin Winter wrote:
>>
>>> For reference, what are these "obscure
b" command to "replay" the crash in gdb (--valgrind option
> can
> also be useful).
>
> I'm only working on Linux, but Fusil works on any UNIX/BSD OS. Don't use
> Fusil
> on Windows! It might work on Windows but without any protection for your
because that is what deques are for. Note that in this case I wouldn't
care about O(1) indexing, because a FIFO is not useful when random
access is needed. If I was just fooling around, then the cost of pop(0)
on a list wouldn't matter.
Tres.
- --
===
g worked out of the box
> without people having to think about it. Using threads and fork
> without exec is evil.
Yup, but that's true for *any* POSIXy envirnnment, not just Python. The
only sane non-exec mixture is to have a single-thread parent fork, and
restrict spawning threads t
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Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Tres Seaver palladion.com> writes:
>> Yup, but that's true for *any* POSIXy envirnnment, not just Python. The
>> only sane non-exec mixture is to have a single-thread parent fork, and
>> res
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Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Tres Seaver palladion.com> writes:
>> Note that the "we" in your sentence is not anything like the "quod
>> semper quod ubique quod ab omnibus" criterion for accepting dogma:
>> mut
ou might even grow hair elsewhere. ;)
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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Vers
about the file. MS Windows muddies the
distinction, using "file handle" to refer to the integer index.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_handle
Tres.
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===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladio
fine per-testcase-method 'testSetUp' and
'testTearDown' methods.
- - Layers can be composed via inheritance, and don't need to call base
layers' methods directly: the testrunner does that for them.
These features has been in heavy use for about 3 1/2 years with a
that post as a core Zope developer: the fact
is that using inheritance to manage the layers works just fine for
Zope's thousands of functional tests.
As for his objections: if you don't want the superclass methods called,
then don't make your layer inherit from it (why else woul
module adopt
zope.testing's layers model: I was just trying to point out that
another model did exist and was being used successfully.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
can't see any way to preserve that flexibility if the
package were part of stdlib.
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"
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Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 16:26, Tres Seaver wrote:
>> Because timezones are defined politically, they change frequently. pytz
>> is released frequently (multiple times per year) to accomodate those
>>
n? does it make
> any sense in that context? how do we make it not impossible for them
> to support?
virtualenv already works with jython: I used it just the other day to
test installing BFG in a jython sandbox (which also worked fine).
Tres.
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===
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Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 01:51 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>
>> +1 for having the conf file in the same directory as the pythonv
>> esecutable (yes, I know it isn't FHS compatible, but virtualevn is kind
>>
e cache directory would not be importable in
the absence of a .py file. Package distributors who wanted to ship
bytecode-only distributions would need to arrange to have the .pyc files
created "in place' (by disabling the cachedir option) or move them from
the cachedir before bundling.
Tre
without the
source, both sides win, AFAICT: most people will no longer have .pyc's
in their package direoctories, and those who want them can get them,
thorugh some means (moving from the cachedir, or disabling the cachedir
feature).
Tres.
- --
isn't "scoped" properly to make it
clear what the module is about. If they were inside a pacakge named
'concurrency' or some such (as hinted by Jesse Noller, I think), the
clash would go away.
Tres.
- --
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Jesse Noller wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Jesse Noller wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Daniel Stutzbach
>>&
r standard library in the short term.
Agreed on the whole. However, it might be interesting to explore the
"hybrid mode" using some of the older, C-based libraries referenced by
the original (Russ Cox) article, e.g. Rob Pike's Unicode-aware 1992
implmentation, as ported for Un
s is going to lag source
releases forever.
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> Tres Seaver wrote:
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Why is it unavoidable that the Mac build will languish behind others?
>>> Are we supporting MacOs or aren't we? If we are, why isn't the cr
e more
participation.
BTW, language like "prov[ing] their motivation" is itself demotivating,
and likely contributes to the status quo ante.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellenc
t value is currently defined to have in the workflow. I'm thinking
> about advocating that the definition in the workflow be changed, and
> indeed we (the informal triage crew) have already occasionally used that
> setting with the meaning I give it above.
Tres.
- --
===
contains the fix for the test. It's a
> great way to develop a patch, but you lose that once you flatten the code for
> review.
You can always "shelve" the part of the patch which isn't the test: I
do that pretty frequently in the Zope tree, where I am now doing most
deve
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Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Tres Seaver palladion.com> writes:
>> This is an excellent set of guidelines. The only drawback I see here is
>> that the current VCS situation makes doing the review more tedious than
>> it shoul
ts. Features like "shelve", "log -p", etc., are aslo extremely
useful when analyzing a patch.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence b
uffering due to neglect", combining
senses 2 and 5 from this page:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/languish
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"
#x27;s a 5,04 by 10,08 for you. :)
>> Of course "2 by 4" is just the name. The actual measurements of such a
>> piece of lumber in the store are about 1.75 by 3.75 inch. :-)
>>
>
> We americans round up! (all the time)
Lumber is, oddly, named for its "wet size&q
game of the 3.1.x world to have an
opinion about this specific breakage, but I have certainly seen other
examples in the 2.x releases, where such a resolution was the
appropriate outcome.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
ope has used it that way
since for ever.
Tres.
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=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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)
>
> What areas. We need specifics which can either be:
>
> 1> Shot down.
> 2> Turned into bugs, so they can be fixed
> 3> Documented in the core documentation.
That's bloody ironic in a thread which had pointed at reasons why people
are not even considering Py3 for
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Jesse Noller wrote:
>
> On Jun 19, 2010, at 10:13 AM, Tres Seaver wrote:
>>> Nothing is set in stone; if something is incredibly painful, or worse
>>> yet broken, then someone needs to file a bug, bring it to this list,
a case where "dont make me think" is a losing propsition:
programmers who work with URLs in any non-opaque way as text are
eventually going to be bitten by this issue no matter how hard we wave
our hands.
Tres.
- --
=======
ps on one
> particular platform to work around that platform's system call
> limitation is not right.
+1. syscall wrappers should err on the side of thinness, even to the
point of anorexia.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver
subsequent quirkiness of the Python3 wsgiref implementation;
- - the breakage in cgi.py which prevents handling file uploads in a
web application;
- - the slow adoption / porting rate of major web frameworks and libraries
to Python 3.
Tres.
- --
======
have been encouraging in some
> ways, because a lot of people are reporting surprisingly easy
> transitions.
Indeed.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Exce
ts on various pltaforms
is the other part).
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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Co
rror running? I know that the hg / git / bzr mirrors I set up for the
repoze SVN repository haven't require any ongoing effort, after the
initial day or two of setup effort.
Tres.
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===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excelle
or hg or git, but
the hg server was better behaved (the git web bit runs as CGI, IIRC).
Tres.
- --
=======
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"
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