[Python-Dev] Re: macOS issues with 3.8.7rc1

2020-12-09 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> On 8 Dec 2020, at 19:59, Gregory Szorc wrote: > > Regarding the 3.8.7rc1 release, I wanted to raise some issues regarding macOS. > > Without the changes from https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22855 > <https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22855> backported,

[Python-Dev] Re: macOS issues with 3.8.7rc1

2020-12-09 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
<mailto:gregory.sz...@gmail.com>> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:13 AM Ronald Oussoren <mailto:ronaldousso...@mac.com>> wrote: > > >> On 8 Dec 2020, at 19:59, Gregory Szorc > <mailto:gregory.sz...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Regarding the 3.

[Python-Dev] Re: macOS issues with 3.8.7rc1

2020-12-09 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/> _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Messa

[Python-Dev] Re: macOS issues with 3.8.7rc1

2020-12-10 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
ork. For 3.7 and earlier this will never work, those branches are closed for development. Ronald — Twitter / micro.blog: @ronaldoussoren Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/ > > -- > Greg > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-de

[Python-Dev] Perceus useful for Python

2020-12-19 Thread Gary Robinson via Python-Dev
A recent technical note from Microsoft describes a new reference counting algorithm, Perceus. It seemed worth posting here in case there are any thoughts about whether it might be useful for Python. I couldn't find any existing references to it in this list. """ We i

[Python-Dev] Re: unittest of sequence equality

2020-12-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
particular way. In short: a test named `assertSequenceEqual` should, I would think, work for any sequence and therefore (based on the available documentation) should not depend on the class-specific implementation of __eq__. Is that wrong? Thank you, Alan Isaac ____

[Python-Dev] Re: unittest of sequence equality

2020-12-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
ac On 12/22/2020 2:28 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: You sure about that? For me, bool(np.array) raises an exception: In [12]: np.__version__ Out[12]: '1.19.4' In [11]: if [False, False]==np.array([False, False]): print("foo") <...> ValueError: The truth va

[Python-Dev] Re: unittest of sequence equality

2020-12-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
In the light of this and https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/6afb730e2a8bf0b472b4c3157bcf5b44aa7e6d56/Lib/unittest/case.py#L970 (linked to from https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/AQRLRVY7EJT4LTOCV7CLOFK3FJJTVYYM/ ) I reckon that *like the other code before

[Python-Dev] Re: unittest of sequence equality

2020-12-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 22.12.2020 22:59, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: In the light of this and https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/6afb730e2a8bf0b472b4c3157bcf5b44aa7e6d56/Lib/unittest/case.py#L970 (linked to from https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message

[Python-Dev] Re: Enhancement request for PyUnicode proxies

2020-12-26 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> On 25 Dec 2020, at 23:03, Nelson, Karl E. via Python-Dev > wrote: > > I was directed to post this request to the general Python development > community so hopefully this is on topic. > > One of the weaknesses of the PyUnicode implementation is that the type is >

[Python-Dev] Re: Enhancement request for PyUnicode proxies

2020-12-26 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
On 26/12/2020 10:52, Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev wrote: On 25 Dec 2020, at 23:03, Nelson, Karl E. via Python-Dev wrote: I was directed to post this request to the general Python development community so hopefully this is on topic. One of the weaknesses of the PyUnicode implementation is

[Python-Dev] Re: Enhancement request for PyUnicode proxies

2020-12-27 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> On 26 Dec 2020, at 18:43, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:54 AM Phil Thompson via Python-Dev > mailto:python-dev@python.org>> wrote: > It's worth comparing the situation with byte arrays. There is no problem > of translating different

[Python-Dev] Enum bug?

2020-12-27 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
d compare both type and value. Paul _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/mess

[Python-Dev] Re: Enhancement request for PyUnicode proxies

2020-12-28 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
know about the OP, but for me that wouldn’t be good enough as I’d still have to copy the string value because of the semantics of ObjC strings. Ronald — Twitter / micro.blog: @ronaldoussoren Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/ <https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/> _____

[Python-Dev] Re: Enhancement request for PyUnicode proxies

2020-12-28 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
On 28/12/2020 02:07, Inada Naoki wrote: On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 8:20 PM Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev wrote: On 26 Dec 2020, at 18:43, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 3:54 AM Phil Thompson via Python-Dev wrote: That wouldn’t be a solution for code using the PyUnicode_

[Python-Dev] Re: Enhancement request for PyUnicode proxies

2020-12-28 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
m OK to un-deprecate PyUnicode_READY() and make it no-op > macro since Python 3.12. > But I don't know how many third-parties use it properly, because > legacy Unicode objects are very rare already. For me lazy population might not be enough (as I'm not sure precisely what you mean by

[Python-Dev] Re: Enhancement request for PyUnicode proxies

2020-12-28 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
Twitter / micro.blog: @ronaldoussoren Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/ <https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/> ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message ar

[Python-Dev] Dusting off PEP 533?

2020-12-30 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
dress this kind of issue? ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives

[Python-Dev] Re: Need help with python

2021-01-01 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
This mailing list is for the development _of_ the Python language and its CPython implementation. Please consult other resources for help with using or learning Python. On 01.01.2021 11:58, hadi esmaeely wrote: hi my name is hadi i'm from iran (the country which filtering others an

[Python-Dev] Unification of the Mac builds?

2021-01-08 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at

[Python-Dev] Re: unittest of sequence equality

2021-01-08 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.o

[Python-Dev] Re: Story behind vars() vs .__dict__

2021-01-08 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
This was discussed a bit over on python-ideas recently, so a note from me, and one from that thread: Or for that matter, not the reason to provide > object's internal storage via object's attribute: obj.__dict__. > Well, it IS an implementation detail that it's a dictionary

[Python-Dev] Re: Unification of the Mac builds?

2021-01-09 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> On 8 Jan 2021, at 20:38, Chris Barker via Python-Dev > wrote: > > Sorry if I'm out of the loop here, but with Apple's new chip coming out, we > need new a build configuration (which I think has already been started, if > not done). > > Perhaps we cou

[Python-Dev] Re: Let's Fix Class Annotations -- And Maybe Annotations Generally

2021-01-11 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
My code pretty much does what you suggest at the end of your message: On Mon, 2021-01-11 at 09:22 -0800, Larry Hastings wrote: > Or code can just use inspect.get_type_hints(), which is tied to the > Python version > anyway and should always do the right thing. So far, this has proven

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-11 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
tanza from > the end too. > Welcome to the world, baby 649! > > /arry > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-de

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-11 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
ons can continue to serve runtime type validation. PEP 563 does go on to state: > For code which uses annotations for other purposes, a > regulareval(ann, globals, locals) call is enough to resolve the > annotation. And I believe this would no longer be true under PEP 649; furth

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-11 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
ld not just store a callable in __annotations__, and use the descriptor to resolve it to a dictionary and store it when it is accessed? It would be one less dunder in the Python data model. On Mon, 2021-01-11 at 15:46 -0800, Larry Hastings wrote: > > On 1/11/21 3:02 PM, Paul Bryan wrote: &

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-11 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
xception, or just > doesn't return an acceptable value--then the getter immediately > exits, and the internal state of the object is unchanged.  If you > wanted to, you could catch the exception, fix the error, and get > __annotations__ again, and it'd work. OK. > > s/__c

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-11 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
Will do. On Mon, 2021-01-11 at 20:55 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 3:51 PM Larry Hastings > wrote: > > [...] > > > This passage in PEP 563 appears not true in Python 3.9 with > > > __future__ annotations, emphasis mine: > > >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-12 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
;t be marshalled. Since the __co_annotations__ function will get globals from the function it annotates, doesn't it get more than just module scope? Paul ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to p

[Python-Dev] Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-12 Thread Julien Palard via Python-Dev
ignature_backslash` in cpython 3.10 to have the same behavior. So the question is: Should we bump minimum version of Sphinx from 1.8 to 3.2.1 along with Python 3.10? For the moment this is where we go, but if you're having to maintain a release of Python along with Sphinx < 3, please make

[Python-Dev] Re: Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-12 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 13.01.2021 2:47, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:28:42AM +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: The alternative is to keep Sphinx 2 support, use strip_signature_backslash and don't use :no-trim-doctest-flags: ? +1. :no-trim-doctest-flags: was introduced to python docs

[Python-Dev] Re: Let's Fix Class Annotations -- And Maybe Annotations Generally

2021-01-12 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
t; and "type(None)". > > > > > Huh, I wasn't aware of that. > > > > This has tripped up many people. Maybe we should just bite the bullet > and change this? +1, FWIW. _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python

[Python-Dev] Re: Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-13 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 13.01.2021 3:12, Senthil Kumaran wrote: On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 02:53:30AM +0300, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: I support keeping same Sphinx version across all the supported python versions. This is not a sustainable route since this way, there's no way to change the version a

[Python-Dev] Re: Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-13 Thread Julien Palard via Python-Dev
ed to allow Sphinx 3 to behave like Sphinx 2 in respect of backslash in signatures. It would allow us to write Sphinx 2 and Sphinx 3 compatible doc. > I noticed that you suggested not to backport this PR > https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/24142 I'm against changing the major versio

[Python-Dev] Re: Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-13 Thread Julien Palard via Python-Dev
elease is already hard, I don't think we can bump dependencies on current releases like Python 3.8. > I would prefer to not have to check manually if a doc backport PR is > still compatible with Sphinx 2 or not. As we're using `-W` flag of sphinx-build, the tests would spot it and

[Python-Dev] Re: Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-13 Thread Julien Palard via Python-Dev
Hi Matthias, Le 2021-01-13 à 12:27, Matthias Klose a écrit : > That's not true. Ubuntu 20.04 LTS still sees updates to subminor Python 3.8 > versions, having sphinx 1.8.5. I do agree to *not* bump our Sphinx dependencies for already published Pythons. Would it be OK to bump Sphinx

[Python-Dev] Re: Unification of the Mac builds?

2021-01-14 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
Ned, Thanks -- I'll take further discussion to the python-mac list. Ronald: That’s a feature of the framework build. The unix build is exactly the same > as a unix build on other platform. Adding the same feature to the unix > build should be possible, but would complicate the bui

[Python-Dev] Re: Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-15 Thread Julien Palard via Python-Dev
ien Palard](https://mdk.fr) _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/l

[Python-Dev] Re: 3.10 change (?) for __bool__

2021-01-15 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
still be "optimised" away? Thanks Rob Cliffe _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived

[Python-Dev] Re: Unification of the Mac builds?

2021-01-15 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> On 14 Jan 2021, at 23:03, Chris Barker via Python-Dev > wrote: > > Ned, > > Thanks -- I'll take further discussion to the python-mac list. > > Ronald: > > That’s a feature of the framework build. The unix build is exactly the same > as a unix bui

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-15 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
> > > > > > I'm probably naive, but is there a reason that one could not just > > > store a callable in __annotations__, and use the descriptor to > > > resolve it to a dictionary and store it when it is accessed? It > > > would be one less dunder i

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-15 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
nnotations__.  If you're not even aware that it exists, it's > not mysterious ;-) > > Cheers, > > /arry _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors

2021-01-15 Thread Paul Bryan via Python-Dev
ew > annotations() function to hide the details. It wouldn't > be the same as get_type_hints(), since it wouldn't make > any assumptions about what the annotations mean. > _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To u

[Python-Dev] Re: Unification of the Mac builds?

2021-01-18 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
Thanks Ronald, This is really helpful. -CHB On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:43 AM Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > > On 14 Jan 2021, at 23:03, Chris Barker via Python-Dev < > python-dev@python.org> wrote: > > Ned, > > Thanks -- I'll take further discussion to the pyth

[Python-Dev] Re: Advantages of pattern matching - a simple comparative analysis

2021-01-18 Thread Chris Barker via Python-Dev
bers > - A node representing JSON arrays > - A node representing JSON dictionaries > > The function transforms a tree of nodes, beginning at the root node, and > proceeding recursively through each child node in turn. The result is a > Python object, with the following transformation a

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 651 -- Robust Overflow Handling

2021-01-20 Thread Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
be a different implementation of this function. I’ve looked into this in the past for macOS, and that platform has an API to retrieve the size of the stack as well as a pointer to the start of the stack (AFAIK stacks aren’t auto-growing on macOS) Ronald — Twitter / micro.blog: @ronal

[Python-Dev] Re: New sys.module_names attribute in Python 3.10: list of all stdlib modules

2021-01-25 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
dule_names attribute, list (technically a frozenset) of all stdlib module names: https://bugs.python.org/issue42955 There are multiple use cases: * Group stdlib imports when reformatting a Python file, * Exclude stdlib imports when computing dependencies. * Exclude stdlib modules when listing extension

[Python-Dev] Re: New sys.module_names attribute in Python 3.10: list of all stdlib modules

2021-01-25 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
s no way to verify a module's contents, either. As such, there's no way to tell if any given module being imported is a standard or a 3rd-party one. On 25.01.2021 20:33, Chris Jerdonek wrote: On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 7:51 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev mailto:python-dev@python.org>>

[Python-Dev] Re: New sys.module_names attribute in Python 3.10: list of all stdlib modules

2021-01-25 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
Fortunately for, you :) , all this argument is not against the feature per se but only against its use to blindly filter module lists for automated bug reports. On 26.01.2021 1:34, Victor Stinner wrote: On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 11:22 PM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: That's not pos

[Python-Dev] Re: Why aren't we allowing the use of C11?

2021-01-29 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 29.01.2021 20:15, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi Mark, I tried to use C11 _Thread_local (Thread Local Storage, TLS) only with GCC and clang and I got issues on macOS: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23976 My PR uses __thread if _Thread_local is not available. I don't think tha

[Python-Dev] Understanding "is not safe" in typeobject.c

2021-02-01 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
_new which does a few context-specific checks before calling PyBaseObject_Type.tp_new() directly to actually create the object. This works fine. However I want to allow class B to be used with a Python mixin. A's tp_new() then has to do something similar to super().__new__(). I have

[Python-Dev] Re: Understanding "is not safe" in typeobject.c

2021-02-02 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
On 01/02/2021 23:50, Greg Ewing wrote: On 2/02/21 12:13 am, Phil Thompson via Python-Dev wrote: TypeError: object.__new__(B) is not safe, use B.__new__() It's not safe because object.__new__ doesn't know about any C-level initialisation that A or B need. But A.__new__ is call

[Python-Dev] Re: Understanding "is not safe" in typeobject.c

2021-02-02 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
Phil On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:27 AM Phil Thompson via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: Hi, I'm trying to understand the purpose of the check in tp_new_wrapper() of typeobject.c that results in the "is not safe" exception. I have the following class hierarchy

[Python-Dev] Re: Understanding "is not safe" in typeobject.c

2021-02-02 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
new. If you do not do this, Python subclasses of your type that also inherit from other Python-defined classes may not work correctly. (Specifically, you may not be able to create instances of such subclasses without getting a TypeError.) -

[Python-Dev] Re: Understanding "is not safe" in typeobject.c

2021-02-03 Thread Phil Thompson via Python-Dev
ct type-wise. Thanks for the explanation. Phil _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.p

[Python-Dev] Re: Concerns about PEP 634

2021-02-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
AICT, no justification is given for this. Why can't pattern matching use the object model? PEP 343 (the "with" statement) added the __enter__ and __exit__ methods to the object model, and that works very well. 2. PEP 634 deliberately introduces a large area of undefined behaviour i

[Python-Dev] Re: Concerns about PEP 634

2021-02-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
_future__ due to its contentious nature met immediate resistance. No point going down that road. Kind regards, Steve On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 8:15 PM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev mailto:python-dev@python.org>> wrote: With such a large new area of functionality that's at odds with existing

[Python-Dev] Re: Concerns about PEP 634

2021-02-06 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
On 07.02.2021 0:24, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: Hello, On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 00:00:41 +0300 Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: Who said "__future__"? Other people said __future__. And yet other said "it's ok the way it is, it's better to have it like that then keep not

[Python-Dev] PR Review request - bpo-41928: Add support for Unicode Path Extra Field in ZipFile

2021-02-07 Thread Andrea Giudiceandrea via Python-Dev
Hi Python Dev team, I submitted a PR https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23736 two months ago. The PR, which fixes an issue https://bugs.python.org/issue41928 in ZipFile, is "awaiting core review". Best regards. Andrea Giudiceandrea _______

[Python-Dev] Re: Change windows installation program name

2021-02-08 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
program did not seem to imply it was the python program. In a nutshell the proposal is to change from this: python-3.10.0a5.exe python-3.10.0a5-amd64.exe to this (thanks to Matthew Barnett for the improved names: python-3.10.0a5-win32-setup.exe python-3.10.0a5-win64-setup.exe Barry

[Python-Dev] Re: Python standardization

2021-02-12 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
How a standard by ANSI, ECMA and/or ISO is any better than a standard by the PSF? Is PSF bad at "controlling its growth and avoiding featuritis" in your opinion or smth? On 12.02.2021 21:33, Dan Stromberg wrote: What would it take to create an ANSI, ECMA and/or ISO standard for P

[Python-Dev] Re: PR Review request - bpo-41928: Add support for Unicode Path Extra Field in ZipFile

2021-02-13 Thread Andrea Giudiceandrea via Python-Dev
Terry Reedy wrote: > I nosied and requested a review from the active zipfile 'expert' (Serhiy). Thank you Terry. Regards. Andrea _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@pyt

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 597 bikeshedding: envvar / option name.

2021-02-14 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
egards, -- Regards, Ivan ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/arch

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
nse them all at once and be done with it? In fact, this whole thread feels like removing 80%-complete translations from a program because they 'burden developers' and confuse users. Even if the translations are not actively updated and degenerates with strings changing, some users find the

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
ing emails multiple times per month about real bug which must be fixed. My main annoyance is that every single buildbot failure sends me an email, and I'm overwhelmed by emails (I'm not only getting emails from buildbots ;-)). Python has already a long list of buildbot workers (between 75

[Python-Dev] Maintenance burdem from unresolved process issues (was: Re: Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python)

2021-02-22 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
s issue at last! Likewise, half of the bullet points in https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LJ3E2UQBPDSFEH7ULNF3QVOYEQYRSAGI/ comes from either ppl trying to bypass the process, or the release manager doing others' jobs that should've already been done had t

[Python-Dev] PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-22 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
. A reference implementation (unreviewed) can be found at: https://github.com/iritkatriel/cpython/pull/10 Thank you for your help Kind regards Irit, Yury & Guido ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to py

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-23 Thread Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
didn't do that already if handling specific exception types and reraising the rest is the standard procedure! Then the code would be reduced to: try:     except (MultiError, ValueError) as e:     MultiError.filter({ValueError: lambda _: None},       e) * https://github.c

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-23 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 3:49 PM Damian Shaw wrote: > > Firstly, if I have a library which supports multiple versions of Python > and I need to catch all standard exceptions, what is considered the best > practise after this PEP is introduced? > > Currently I might have code l

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-23 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
ption from the PEP on how to handle this kind of pattern, > especially for code that must support multiple versions of Python, would be > extremely helpful. > > Damian > >> >> ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To u

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-23 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
up('', (NotADirectoryError(20, 'The directory name is invalid'),)) There is no need for it to always raise ExceptionGroup. It can propagate the user's exception as is if it has no exceptions to add. But the caller needs to assume that it may raise an ExceptionGroup, and use

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-23 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
ubgroup(lambda e: not predicate(e)) > assert g1 == h1 and g2 == h2 # only true if `None not in {g1, g2}` > ``` > An empty subgroup should also return None. I see this is not mentioned in the PEP, so I will add it. Thanks. Irit ___ Python-Dev m

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-23 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
rrently have: > > try: > create_connection(*addresses) > except (Timeout, NetworkNotConnected): > # that's OK, let's try later > pass > > what should happen after Python 3.10? Apart from adding a new function, > I can see two pos

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-24 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
ly to be overused than actually needed. We did that in an earlier version of the PEP for the "filter OSErrors by type" example, which we did with iteration and now do with subgroup: try: low_level_os_operation() except *OSerror as errors: raise errors.subgroup(lambda e: e.errno != er

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-24 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
Those are quite different directions. _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archive

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-24 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
split() currently copies (context, cause, traceback) from the original ExceptionGroup to the new ones. We could have some protocol, but I'm not sure what it would look like. I'm pretty sure there will be a cost, and I'm not sure I understand why no subclassing is a serious enough l

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-25 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
distinction between code that raises ExceptionGroups and code that doesn't. Any code can propagate them, like any code can raise any other exception. Does this mean that more code needs to be aware of the possibility of them showing up? Is that a problem? Maybe this a simpler state of affairs o

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-25 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
teration utility we are implying that this is what you should do. So let me be more direct instead of proposing passive-aggressive APIs. Can we take a step back and talk about how we think people would want to handle ExceptionGroups? In the rejected ideas section we discuss this a bit, with a re

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-25 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
dditional data that's only available in that stack frame. > > So I think there are enough serious use cases that we should do what's > best for those use cases, and not try to lecture users about abuse of the > idiom. > > I don't know what we would have done if we we

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-25 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
back.py, > but it probably is full of distractions.) > I've added it here: https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1841 I'd rather do this for now, and add it to the standard library only when we have a better idea about common patterns // best pract

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-25 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
ing faster than the implementation. But these aren't differences that are more than a technicality to fix (rename things, move an error from runtime to the parser, things like that). The except* implementation is probably pretty close to the PEP because it's the most recent bit. ___

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-26 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
ds to be fixed. > > If you write 'except ExceptionGroup': this clause is a no-op that will > never execute, because it's impossible to still have an ExceptionGroup > when we start matching 'except' clauses. (We could additionally emit a > diagnostic if we wa

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-26 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
'hello') and this raises a RuntimeError: try: raise ExceptionGroup("", [ValueError()]) except ValueError: print('hello') What am I missing? _______ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-26 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
think it says anything about whether except* clauses should be able > to see into nested ExceptionGroups ... nor am I at all confident that I > understood your intent. > > -jJ > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-26 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 11:43 PM Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:18 PM Marco Sulla > wrote: > >> Excuse me if I post here. Maybe is a stupid question: why, instead of >> introducing except*, Python can't extend the functionality of except, >>

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-26 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
me experience with this from the Trio experiments with MultiError though, so we are not starting from scratch. Can you spell out how you see ExceptionGroup handling work with pattern matching? ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubsc

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-28 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
if ... some other ok situation ... >> else: >> raise >> >> My natural inclination with an ExceptionGroup would be to winnow the >> OSErrors I'm handed, and push the _unhandled_ errors back into the >> original ExceptionGroup. That

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-28 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
ta (unless eg's tree has >> depth 1). >> > > Is this a typo? Did you mean "If you flatten [it] and create a new list... > you *do* lose metadata (unless ... depth 1)"? > It is a typo, thanks. ___ Python-Dev mailin

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-28 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
al__ # or __parent__ or something > unhandled.extend(eg) > if unhandled: > raise eg0.with_exceptions(unhandled) > > Except that here I have no way to get "eg0", the original > ExceptionGroup, for the final raise without the additional .__origi

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-02 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
ocess_worker) from the stdlib. > > Almost similarly, I maintain a library using this pattern to wrap/unwrap > exceptions from remote Python processes to create nicely formatted > tracebacks (also recursively of course if needed) at the calling python > process. > > Usually t

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-02 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
sed? > I can't imagine people building deep trees of exceptions in practice (at least not on purpose). But some nesting may show up naturally, and we need to support it because otherwise it can get awkward if, for example, asyncio.gather() needs to wrap an exception group that came fro

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-03 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 7:25 PM Sven R. Kunze wrote: > Just to be on the safe side here, I would want to asked a little bit > further. > > > On 02.03.21 12:22, Irit Katriel wrote: > > > 1) What is the right "except pattern" when ExceptionGroup is introduced >>

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-03 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
u want to catch, because you are using a new API incorrectly. But you won't have bugs where you swallow an exception that you didn't swallow before. Irit On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 8:30 AM Paul Moore wrote: > On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 at 21:46, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev > wrote:

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-03 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
PIs that discard errors because they need to pick one. That's what we're trying to fix. Irit ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-03 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
the program. Exiting") > sys.exit(1) > It suffices to do try: main() except *KeyboardInterrupt: print("User interrupted the program. Exiting") sys.exit(1) because "except *T" catches Ts as well. > > Did I miss an easier way of writing this code

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-03 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
to do > ># reraise the rest > > I'd be inclined to suggest that a complete version of this should be > included in the "Backward compatibility" part of the PEP, as I > honestly don't really know how I'd write that without doing more > research

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-03 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
> > Best > Sven > > > PS: > > the reason why I was a bit puzzled by the > BaseExceptionGroup/ExceptionGroup issue is that: > - if it doesn't matter (so we do it automatically, because we do not > want to bother anybody), why do we need ExceptionGroup at all, >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-03 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
se a bunch of them and the order of the except clauses in caller's code determines which one of them counts and which ones are discarded. What do you make of that? Irit ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to pyt

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 -- Exception Groups and except* : request for feedback for SC submission

2021-03-04 Thread Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 1:38 AM Glenn Linderman wrote: > On 3/3/2021 2:49 PM, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote: > > That's an interesting idea. > > Do you mean that one exception gets handled and the rest of the group is > reraised? Or discarded? > > The value of

<    8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   >