ke a targeted recovery which is
relevant to this particular exception.
So, what is the use case for iterating over single exceptions?
>
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htt
re building Python from
> scratch. Possibly we would not have BaseException at all, and the whole
> mess would go away. (But there are some good reasons why we introduced
> BaseException, so I don't know that that would really be a better overall
> experience.)
>
> --G
ices for handling
ExceptionGroups.
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ing faster than the implementation.
But these aren't differences that are more than a technicality to fix
(rename things, move an error from runtime to the parser, things like that).
The except* implementation is probably pretty close to the PEP because it's
the most recent bit.
___
ribute. (The only case I can think
> of where this would be useful is if you're writing code that has to
> straddle both old and new Python versions *and* wants to do something
> clever with ExceptionGroups. I think this would happen if you're
> implementing Trio, or implementing a
'hello')
and this raises a RuntimeError:
try:
raise ExceptionGroup("", [ValueError()])
except ValueError:
print('hello')
What am I missing?
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think it says anything about whether except* clauses should be able
> to see into nested ExceptionGroups ... nor am I at all confident that I
> understood your intent.
>
> -jJ
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ther in the Rationale or in Rejected Ideas.)
>
Added here: https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1846
>
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me experience with this from the Trio experiments with
MultiError though, so we are not starting from scratch.
Can you spell out how you see ExceptionGroup handling work with pattern
matching?
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if ... some other ok situation ...
>> else:
>> raise
>>
>> My natural inclination with an ExceptionGroup would be to winnow the
>> OSErrors I'm handed, and push the _unhandled_ errors back into the
>> original ExceptionGroup. That
ta (unless eg's tree has
>> depth 1).
>>
>
> Is this a typo? Did you mean "If you flatten [it] and create a new list...
> you *do* lose metadata (unless ... depth 1)"?
>
It is a typo, thanks.
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al__ # or __parent__ or something
> unhandled.extend(eg)
> if unhandled:
> raise eg0.with_exceptions(unhandled)
>
> Except that here I have no way to get "eg0", the original
> ExceptionGroup, for the final raise without the additional .__origi
fort into making the traceback output pretty, so
at the moment it's a draft. If there is an ascii artist out there who has
suggestions on improving this, that would be great.
Irit
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sed?
>
I can't imagine people building deep trees of exceptions in practice (at
least not on purpose). But some nesting may show up naturally, and we need
to support it because otherwise it can get awkward if, for example,
asyncio.gather() needs to wrap an exception group that came fro
| |
> | | +---+ TypeError: b
>
>
> I used a similar pattern for the remote-execution lib and received good
> user feedback (even requesting color encoding for each layer of the tree
> (not the text), so people know what belongs together). Besides colors, I
> used https://en.w
u want to catch, because you are using
a new API incorrectly. But you won't have bugs where you swallow an
exception that you didn't swallow before.
Irit
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 8:30 AM Paul Moore wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 at 21:46, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev
> wrote:
PIs
that discard errors because they need to pick one. That's what we're trying
to fix.
Irit
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s this different?
Raising an ExceptionGroup is an API change. If you call APIs that say they
will raise ExceptionGroups you need to update your code accordingly. If a
library doesn't document that it raises ExceptionGroups and then one of
those escapes, then that library has a bug. Just lik
27;s something I can
> easily imagine *could* happen...
If a library starts raising ExceptionGroups from version 3.X it should
probably do that from a new API so people won't have to worry about it just
because they are bumping Python version. So I think the cross-version issue
is in the
>
> Best
> Sven
>
>
> PS:
>
> the reason why I was a bit puzzled by the
> BaseExceptionGroup/ExceptionGroup issue is that:
> - if it doesn't matter (so we do it automatically, because we do not
> want to bother anybody), why do we need ExceptionGroup at all,
>
se a bunch of them and the order of the
except clauses in caller's code determines which one of them counts and
which ones are discarded. What do you make of that?
Irit
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On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 1:38 AM Glenn Linderman
wrote:
> On 3/3/2021 2:49 PM, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:
>
> That's an interesting idea.
>
> Do you mean that one exception gets handled and the rest of the group is
> reraised? Or discarded?
>
> The value of
rrupt(), KeyboardInterrupt()])
> # propagates further, a traditional "except KeyboardInterrupt"
> # would catch it. The ValueError is discarded.
>
> An interesting feature would be: when the matching clause has no "as",
> "except" behaves the s
BaseException)" as a rejected idea and
explain it there.
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ring the migration/mixed python version phase. But I'm not
convinced yet that this is what we want to end up with in the long term.
Waiting to hear more thoughts.
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foo, foo)
See PEP461:
Adding % formatting to bytes and bytearray
<https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0461/>
"With Python 3 and the split between str and bytes, one small but
important area of programming became slightly more difficult, and much
more painful -- wire format protocols."
nge whatsoever
(are disadvantaged people's lives going to be improved by this
rename?). What next? Are we going to crack down on any courses that
proclaim to help you to "master the Python language"? Does that, too,
have to be renamed?
ChrisA
________
I think https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GDAUZKYB6GP3A3ZGBSQ4KQ7R6QFIZHZC/ and
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RE3V6Y7CPHOL6LGPPYSVS3XQFTIQRZ3J/ already explained the reasons in
sufficient detail -- that "main&
sallow anything else than UTF-8 (then the specification
can be removed, too).
Cheers,
Steve
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On 17.03.2021 23:04, Steve Dower wrote:
On 3/17/2021 7:34 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote:
On 17.03.2021 20:30, Steve Dower wrote:
On 3/17/2021 8:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
How about writing paths as bytestrings in the long term? I think this
should eliminate the necessity of knowing
probably opens new possibilities for adoption strategies of exception
groups and except* (in terms of the interaction of exception groups with
except).
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now that PEP 637 has
been rejected. We also have a second PR in progress at
https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1881 clarifying some of the motivation.)
Thanks!
Matthew and Pradeep
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fully this is because everyone thought they are
sensible.
Irit, Yury and Guido
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that!
--
If you know that two modules should be tested together, please write a
dedicated test for that ;-)
Victor
--
Regards,
Ivan
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performance
2) Maintainability - no code duplication in favor of using reusable classes
3) RAII - Resource Acquisition Is Initialization, predictable allocation and
free resources
...
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On 24.03.2021 19:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 19:45:49 +0300
Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote:
How does C++ fare in binary compatibility? Last time I checked it out (about 10
years ago), there was completely none, every compiler's ABI
was a black box without any guara
# original group in full or just "unhandled" exception in the
> # group (or anything) - everything should be passed via
> # exception attributes (or computed by methods).
> cur.org = e0
> cur.rest = rest
> return cur
>
>
d to draft a scheme aspiring to allow that. (Which would
> definitely need more work to achieve parity with functionality in
> PEP654, because again, it tries to codify rather complex and "magic"
> behavior. Where complex and magic behavior in exception handling is
> itself of con
ur concern with our design is that ExceptionGroup implements a generic
split() that handles tracebacks and nested structure correctly, and you
might not need that because maybe you don't nest or you don't care about
tracebacks?
If that is the case then I think you are confusing "g
x27;s aware of the possibility of getting an ExceptionGroup
> not simply catch it as a normal exception and then pick it apart? Do
> we really need a whole new piece of machinery for this?
>
> --
> Greg
>
> _______
> Python-Dev mailing l
e some edge cases in the interpreter that we will need
to make a decision about. I would imagine an ExceptionGroup(StopIteration)
is a bug of some sort, so we would probably want to not handle that as a
StopIteration - just let the program fail and make the error obvious.
ExceptionGroup(SystemExit) -- I
e the nodes represent the times when
exceptions were grouped together and raised.
Irit
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list`] ":" `expression`
>>>>>>> master
Adding a grammar production has nothing to do with the issue. This
could be easily fixed by removing the lambda_expr_nocond line (and
other junk if not editing in the local branch) but would not solve the
more extensive issue
and then
> stay inside the CM, outside of testing, I cannot fathom. [3]
>
> So, opinions on modifying NamedTemporaryFile to not delete on close() if
> inside a CM, and add open() ?
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
>
Ronald
—
Twitter / micro.blog: @ronaldoussoren
Blog: https://blog.r
and treat all NamedTemporaryFiles
the same.
We could add reopen(), but since close() is already there... although
I do like the name of `reopen`.
--
~Ethan~
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oraryFile to not delete on close() if inside
a CM, and add open() ?
--
~Ethan~
[1] https://bugs.python.org/issue14243
[2] plus, the `.open()` doesn't yet exist
[3] feel free to educate me :-)
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To
s for the most
part a wart that users will just have to learn and internalize.
Cheers,
-Barry (on behalf of the Python Steering Council)
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so the annotation
values are still accessible at runtime. This meets the real needs of users of
type annotations better, and gives up none of the benefits of PEP 649.
Carl
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Please reassure me, someone. 😁
Rob Cliffe
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so far, nobody has
> suggested even minor changes. Folks have just expressed their opinions about
> it (which is fine).
This is not true. I suggested yesterday (in
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DSZFE7XTRK2ESRJDPQPZIDP2I67E76WH/
) that PEP 649 could av
evel APIs and libraries that aren’t build related.
Ronald
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Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/
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ul decision.
>
> For the SC,
> Thomas.
> --
> Thomas Wouters
>
> Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me
> spread!
>
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print(len(sys.warnoptions))'
Invalid -W option ignored: invalid action: 'use EXT_SUFFIX'
['ignore:SO is deprecated', ' use EXT_SUFFIX:DeprecationWarning']
2
You can only try to use "module" and "lineno" parameters of a warning
filter, whic
nobody" - well, I knew that already. 😁
² Your idea of "large" may not be the same as mine - I'm talking a few
thousand lines.
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fining a new kind of traceback entry, I was storing this on the EG
> itself, so that's why I was thinking about it needing to be part of
> this PEP.
>
You can also create an ExceptionGroup subclass with whatever extra data you
want to include.
Irit
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in the PEP:
>
> Why not extending BaseException by __group__ among __cause__ and __context__?
>
> Would this reduce some of the added complexity and thus increase broader
> acceptance?
>
> Cheers,
> Sven
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on in the PEP:
>>> Why not extending BaseException by __group__ among __cause__ and
>>> __context__?
>>> Would this reduce some of the added complexity and thus increase broader
>>> acceptance?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sven
>
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new API when you start raising exception groups from a
function because that changes the function's external behaviour.
-1 from me on the denormalized traceback idea. I've said what I had to say
about it in my previous email.
Cheers
Irit
________
ans if any C code peeks at exc_info while it's
> in flight, it'll only see the current branch of the traceback tree,
> but that seems fine.
> - When the exception is caught and we go to write back the traceback
> to its __traceback__ attribute, instead "peek through"
anded upon to fully explain the proposed
> syntactic change, it's impact on the language and it's spec, etc.
>
> Once this update happens, we will be happy to look at the PEP again for
> consideration of inclusion in Python 3.11.
>
>
> -Brett (on behalf of the SC)
>
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deprecate the old macros?
Irit
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start of development in newer
> schedules).
>
> 4. Where data on last bugfix release wasn't available in schedules, I've
> looked through release notes.
>
> 5. I've deliberately skipped dev period for 2.5 not to overstretch it to
> the left.
>
> If
pproach, so that we can put them next to each other?
>
> -n
>
> --
> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org
>
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e exceptions?
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traceback. Anything which increases the visual noise
> of that is going to make it harder.
>
>
> --
> Steve
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> https://mail.pytho
t not making this
> change.
"We do this not because it's right, but because it's easy."
Great to see Python adopting the motto of our new century.
Martin
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f someone is still
admin there and if it's possible, to "unbreak" the link from the PEP.
Bests,
--
[Julien Palard](https://mdk.fr)
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print_exception in module traceback:
print_exception(exc, /, value=, tb=,
limit=None, file=None, chain=True)
Is there a convention on how such default sentinel values should appear in
docs?
https://bugs.python.org/issue43024
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27;m with or .
The arg is only there for backwards compatibility now.
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Message arch
oken)
> '<_UNSET.token: 1>'
>
>
> All of these are in use by some developers, though not necessarily in
> the stdlib. None is perfect, though all are probably good enough.
> Since pickling is likely not relevant in most cases, I'm currently in
> favor of #2 ma
g a PEP to enhance sentinels in Python,
>> and maybe even provide a public API for sentinels in general.
>>
>> Victor
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dmins here:
=> https://sourceforge.net/p/python/_members/
so if someone see its login there, you can try logging in and unhide the
mailing list, else I'll try to have sourceforge unhide it by hand.
--
[Julien Palard](https://mdk.fr)
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.
I sent a mail to SourceForge support but my hope is around 0. If it's
not fixed in a few months I'll just remove the links pointing to this
archive (there's some in the PEPs).
Thanks Brett and Guido,
--
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.
[1]:
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/9283/*
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give iterators instead of
> iterables as a hint they're not "rewindable" was initially thought
> of and part of the design, or it emerged later.
Then I went yak shaving...
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[snip]
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ontexts... was
> it maybe a medical context? So "living" would be "unstable" too, as Tim
> suggested.
>
> And since people know what a living document is, a living API wouldn't be
> much of a stretch.
>
> On the other hand, "unstable" carries
y 1, which I think Ethan does.
And the ‘exact’ requirement (that each bit is covered once) surely doesn’t
apply.
It’s more like “full cover by singletons”.
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Jun 7, 2021 at 6:36 PM Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 6/6/21 9:14 AM, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:
> > On 6 Jun 2021, at 16:58, Andrei Kulakov wrote:
>
> >> In Math / CompSci there is a definition that almost exactly matches
> this: Exact Cover -
> >> https://
Twitter / micro.blog: @ronaldoussoren
Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/
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> On 9 Jun 2021, at 11:13, Victor Stinner wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:32 AM Ronald Oussoren via Python-Dev
> wrote:
>> Its a bit late to complain (and I’m not affected by this myself), but those
>> functions are part of the stable ABI. The chang
> Regards,
> --
> Inada Naoki
—
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is still
relevant. If you see "version 3.5" then it makes sense to check on a
current version and either update the issue or close it.
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brary/smtpd.html
[5] https://aiosmtpd.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
[6] https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/26882
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7;))
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
File "", line 5, in __str__
KeyError: '"a"'
Basically, f-strings rely on eval-like semantics.
Martin
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'{d[a]}'
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
NameError: name 'a' is not defined
Yes, having three different ways of doing string interpolation (not
counting other things you can import, like string.Template) is a bit
confusing.
Mar
Matthew Rahtz via Python-Dev wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > We've got to the stage now with PEP 646 that we're feeling pretty happy
> with
> > it. So far though we've mainly been workshopping it in typing-sig, so as
> PEP 1
> > requires we're askin
versions?
Any help appreciated!
--
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[1] https://stackoverflow.com/q/68319071/208880
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anks, PEP updated.
--
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Co
Team
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ect.c was changed to use Py_TRASHCAN_BEGIN / END?
>
We just changed frameobject.c to use the new macros. Can you check?
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/27683
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where the macro is deprecated, Python 3.11 if I understood
> correctly).
...
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you
observed the problem and we fixed things that could have caused it. Please
open a new issue if you still see this bug".
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https://m
if I missed a more elegant solution (suggestions welcome),
but if I could write
byte(i)
that would feel more Pythonic to me.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
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n.
Perhaps you could provide that backwards-compatible base class, either in the
library as a deprecated class or at least in the PEP for people to copy if they
need it?
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e latter,
I found something that worked, viz.
bytes((i,))
But it felt a bit of a kludge. I would have used something like bchr if
(a) it existed (b) I knew about it.
Rob Cliffe
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