[Python-Dev] Re: Object deallocation during the finalization of Python program

Hi Pau, Also, the Cython documentation warns against doing this kind of things (here, accessing the Python object stored in ``foo``). From https://cython.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/userguide/special_methods.html: You need to be careful what you do in a __dealloc__() method. By the

[Python-Dev] Re: Adding a scarier warning to object.__del__?

r __del__() is > called a second time when a resurrected object is about to be destroyed; the > current CPython implementation only calls it once. "...in most cases." Armin Rigo ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscrib

[Python-Dev] Re: Helpers for dynamic bytecode generation

Hi, On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 at 04:13, Jonathan Goble wrote: >> Has anyone already done this that people know of? (Searching the Internetz >> didn't turn anything up) Failing that, to what extent is it reasonable to >> either consider assemble() as some kind of sane API point into compile.c PyPy

Re: [Python-Dev] [PEP 558] thinking through locals() semantics

Hi, On Wed, 29 May 2019 at 08:07, Greg Ewing wrote: > Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Having a single locals() call de-optimize an entire function would be > > far from ideal. > > I don't see what would be so bad about that. The vast majority > of functions have no need for locals(). You have the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 558: Defined semantics for locals()

Hi, On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 17:28, Steve Dower wrote: > On 23May2019 0636, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > However, I think the PR does show that the proposed technique can be > > implemented without too much additional code complexity, and will > > hopefully be adaptable for all implementations that

Re: [Python-Dev] Use C extensions compiled in release mode on a Python compiled in debug mode

Hi Neil, On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 21:17, Neil Schemenauer wrote: > Regarding the Py_TRACE_REFS fields, I think we can't do them without > breaking the ABI because of the following. For GC objects, they are > always allocated by _PyObject_GC_New/_PyObject_GC_NewVar. So, we > can allocate the

Re: [Python-Dev] Making PyInterpreterState an opaque type

Hi, On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 13:12, Victor Stinner wrote: > Please don't use _GET_ITEM() or _PyTuple_ITEMS(). It prevents > to use a more efficient storage for tuple. Something like: > https://pythoncapi.readthedocs.io/optimization_ideas.html#specialized-list-for-small-integers > > PyPy already

Re: [Python-Dev] C API changes

Hi Steve, On 30/11/2018, Steve Dower wrote: > On 29Nov2018 2206, Armin Rigo wrote: >> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 at 18:19, Steve Dower wrote: >>> quo. We continue to not be able to change CPython internals at all, >>> since that will break people using option B. >> &

Re: [Python-Dev] C API changes

Hi, On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 at 18:19, Steve Dower wrote: > quo. We continue to not be able to change CPython internals at all, > since that will break people using option B. No? That will only break users if they only have an option-B ``foo.cpython-318m-x86_64-linux-gnu.so``, no option-A .so and

Re: [Python-Dev] C API changes

Hi Steve, On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 19:14, Steve Dower wrote: > On 27Nov2018 0609, Victor Stinner wrote: > > Note: Again, in my plan, the new C API would be an opt-in API. The old > > C API would remain unchanged and fully supported. So there is no > > impact on performance if you consider to use

Re: [Python-Dev] C API changes

Hi, On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 at 10:15, Stefan Behnel wrote: > Overall, this seems like something that PyPy could try out as an > experiment, by just taking a simple extension module and replacing all > increfs with newref assignments. And obviously implementing the whole thing > for the C-API Just

Re: [Python-Dev] C API changes

Hi Stefan, On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 at 22:17, Stefan Behnel wrote: > Couldn't this also be achieved via reference counting? Count only in C > space, and delete the "open object" when the refcount goes to 0? The point is to remove the need to return the same handle to C code if the object is the same

[Python-Dev] C API changes

Hi Hugo, hi all, On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 at 22:53, Hugh Fisher wrote: > I suggest that for the language reference, use the license plate > or registration analogy to introduce "handle" and after that use > handle throughout. It's short, distinctive, and either will match > up with what the

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

Hi, On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 01:50, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > [...] > > So I was wondering if it would be possible to keep that context around > > if you are in the debugger and rewind the execution point to before > > the statement was triggered. > > I think what you are looking for is a reverse

Re: [Python-Dev] Let's change to C API!

Hi Antoine, On 11 August 2018 at 15:19, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Jython and IronPython never got significant manpower AFAIK, so even > without being hindered by the C API, chances are they would never have > gotten very far. Both do not even seem to have stable releases > implementing the Python

Re: [Python-Dev] Let's change to C API!

Hi, On 31 July 2018 at 13:55, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > It's just that I disagree that removing the C API will make CPython 2x > faster. > > Actually, important modern optimizations for dynamic languages (such as > inlining, type specialization, inline caches, object unboxing) don't > seem to

Re: [Python-Dev] Error message for wrong number of arguments

Hi, On 30 July 2018 at 22:19, Chris Barker via Python-Dev wrote: > Oh well. This is a serious usability issue -- but what can you do? I think that argument clinic knows if the built-in function is supposed to be a method or a function. It doesn't look too hard to add a new flag METH_IS_METHOD

Re: [Python-Dev] About [].append == [].append

Hi, On 23 June 2018 at 10:54, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > +1 too. But I think the right solution should be opposite: reverting > issue1350060 changes and making all methods equality be based on the > identity of __self__. The arguments in this thread are the kind of discussion I was looking for

Re: [Python-Dev] Add __reversed__ methods for dict

Hi Inada, On 27 May 2018 at 09:12, INADA Naoki wrote: > When focusing to CPython, PyPy and MicroPython, no problem for adding > __reverse__ in 3.8 seems OK. Fwiw, the functionality that is present in OrderedDict but still absent from 'dict' is: ``__reverse__``, discussed above, and

Re: [Python-Dev] (name := expression) doesn't fit the narrative of PEP 20

Hi, On 26 April 2018 at 07:50, Raymond Hettinger wrote: >> [Raymond Hettinger ] >>> After re-reading all the proposed code samples, I believe that >>> adopting the PEP will make the language harder to teach to people >>> who are not

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward incompatible change about docstring AST

Hi, On 27 February 2018 at 15:32, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 1. CPython and PyPy set different position for multiline strings. PyPy sets > the position of the start of string, but CPython sets the position of the > end of the string. A program that utilizes the docstring

Re: [Python-Dev] Python possible vulnerabilities in concurrency

Hi, On 14 November 2017 at 14:55, Jan Claeys wrote: > Sounds like https://www.iso.org/standard/71094.html > which is updating https://www.iso.org/standard/61457.html > (which you can download from there if you search a bit; clearly either > ISO doesn't have a UI/UX "standard" or

Re: [Python-Dev] The current dict is not an "OrderedDict"

Hi Antoine, On 8 November 2017 at 10:28, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Yet, PyPy has no reference counting, and it doesn't seem to be a cause > of concern. Broken code is fixed along the way, when people notice. It is a major cause of concern. This is the main blocker for

Re: [Python-Dev] __del__ is not called after creating a new reference

Hi all, On 20 March 2017 at 22:28, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > Modern CPython, and all extant versions of PyPy and Jython, guarantee that > __del__ is called at most once. Just a note, if someone actually depends on this: it is not true in all cases. For example, in CPython 3.5.3:

Re: [Python-Dev] CALL_FUNCTION_EX arg and stack_effect

Hi Matthieu, On 20 February 2017 at 19:44, Matthieu Dartiailh wrote: > What do you think ? Should I open an issue on https://bugs.python.org/ ? Possibly related: http://bugs.python.org/issue24340 A bientôt, Armin. ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Deterministic builds of the interpreter

Hi Freddy, On 16 February 2017 at 18:03, Freddy Rietdijk wrote: > As I mentioned, it seems only sets cause unreproducible > bytecode. Sets have no order. But when generating the bytecode, I would > expect there would still be an order since the code isn't actually

Re: [Python-Dev] re performance

Hi Sven, On 26 January 2017 at 22:13, Sven R. Kunze wrote: > I recently refreshed regular expressions theoretical basics *indulging in > reminiscences* So, I read https://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html Theoretical regular expressions and what Python/Perl/etc. call regular

Re: [Python-Dev] Is there any remaining reason why weakref callbacks shouldn't be able to access the referenced object?

Hi, Sorry to reply in this old thread. We just noticed this on #pypy: On 22 October 2016 at 05:32, Nick Coghlan wrote: > The weakref-before-__del__ ordering change in > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0442/#disposal-of-cyclic-isolates > only applies to cyclic garbage

Re: [Python-Dev] ctypes, memory mapped files and context manager

Hi Hans-Peter, On 6 January 2017 at 00:28, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote: > Leaves the question, how stable this "interface" is? Another way to jump through hoops: c_raw = ctypes.PYFUNCTYPE(ctypes.c_void_p, ctypes.c_void_p)(lambda p: p) addr =

Re: [Python-Dev] PySlice_GetIndicesEx annd stable ABI: bikeshedding

Hi Serhiy, On 21 December 2016 at 15:51, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > The code > > if (PySlice_GetIndicesEx(item, length, > , , , ) < 0) > return -1; > > should be replaced with > > if (foo(item, , , ) < 0) > return -1; > slicelength =

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPy progress: list of CPython 3.5 crashers and bugs

Hi Nick, On 5 December 2016 at 13:22, Nick Coghlan wrote: > I think 3 omnibus issues would be a reasonable way to go, with the > discussion on those issues then splitting things out to either new > issue reports, or entries in >

Re: [Python-Dev] PyPy progress: list of CPython 3.5 crashers and bugs

Hi Raymond, On 6 December 2016 at 05:59, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > Also, we use {...} instead of OrderedDict(...). No, at least CPython 3.5.2 uses ``...`` for OrderedDict, and not ``{...}``. Following that example, deques should also use ``...`` instead of

[Python-Dev] PyPy progress: list of CPython 3.5 crashers and bugs

nd patches, then that's fine with me too and I will simply continue to expand my cpython-crashers.rst file. Thank you for your attention, Armin Rigo ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscri

Re: [Python-Dev] Review request: issue 27350, compact ordered dict

Hi Inada, On 10 August 2016 at 18:52, INADA Naoki wrote: > a. dict has one additional word and support ring internally. > b. OrderedDict reimplements many APIs (iterating, resizing, etc...) to > support ring. There is a solution "c." which might be simpler. Let's think

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 520: Preserving Class Attribute Definition Order (round 5)

Hi, On 24 June 2016 at 23:52, Eric Snow wrote: > Pending feedback, the impact on Python implementations is expected to > be minimal. If a Python implementation cannot support switching to > `OrderedDict``-by-default then it can always set ``__definition_order__`` >

Re: [Python-Dev] PyGC_Collect ignores state of `enabled`

Hi Lukasz, On 10 May 2016 at 04:13, Łukasz Langa wrote: > However, because of PyGC_Collect() called in Py_Finalize(), during > interpreter shutdown the collection is done anyway, Linux does CoW and the > memory usage spikes. Which is ironic on process shutdown. Try to call

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 509: Add a private version to dict

Hi Victor, On 14 April 2016 at 17:19, Victor Stinner wrote: > Each time a dictionary is created, the global > version is incremented and the dictionary version is initialized to the > global version. A detail, but why not set the version tag of new empty dictionaries

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_SETREF vs. Py_XSETREF

Hi, On 3 April 2016 at 15:29, MRAB wrote: >> Should we rename Py_SETREF to Py_XSETREF and introduce new Py_SETREF >> that uses Py_DECREF? > > Checking for NULL is convenient (and safer), but, on the other hand, it > _would_ be consistent with the others. My 2 cents

Re: [Python-Dev] Counting references to Py_None

Hi, On 20 March 2016 at 18:10, Brett Cannon wrote: > And if we didn't keep its count accurately it would eventually hit > zero and constantly have its dealloc function checked for. I think the idea is really consistency. If we wanted to avoid all "Py_INCREF(Py_None);", it

Re: [Python-Dev] "python.exe is not a valid Win32 app"

Hi all, On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Laura Creighton wrote: > Python 3.5 is not supported on windows XP. Upgrade your OS or > stick with 3.4 Maybe this information should be written down somewhere more official? I can't find it in any of these pages:

Re: [Python-Dev] Avoiding CPython performance regressions

Hi all, Spending an hour with "hg bisect" is a good way to figure out some of the worst speed regressions that occurred in the early days of 2.7 (which are still not fixed now). Here's my favorite's pick: * be4bec689de3 made bm_mako 15% slower, and spitfire_cstringio even much more *

Re: [Python-Dev] Yet another "A better story for multi-core Python" comment

Hi Gary, On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Gary Robinson wrote: > 1) More the reference counts away from data structures, so copy-on-write > isn’t an issue. A general note about PyPy --- sorry, it probably doesn't help your use case because SciPy is not supported right now...

Re: [Python-Dev] tp_finalize vs tp_del sematics

Hi Valentine, On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Valentine Sinitsyn wrote: >> That does not make it ok to have del called several time, does it? > > That's a tricky question. If the Python documentation now says something like ``the __del__ method is never called more

Re: [Python-Dev] tp_finalize vs tp_del sematics

Hi Valentine, On 24 August 2015 at 20:43, Valentine Sinitsyn valentine.sinit...@gmail.com wrote: So you mean that this was to keep things backwards compatible for third-party extensions? I haven't thought about it this way, but this makes sense. However, the behavior of Python code using

Re: [Python-Dev] tp_finalize vs tp_del sematics

Hi Valentine, On 25 August 2015 at 09:56, Valentine Sinitsyn valentine.sinit...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I think so. There is a *highly obscure* corner case: __del__ will still be called several times if you declare your class with __slots__=(). Even on post-PEP-0442 Python 3.4+? Could you

Re: [Python-Dev] tp_finalize vs tp_del sematics

Hi Valentine, On 19 August 2015 at 09:53, Valentine Sinitsyn valentine.sinit...@gmail.com wrote: why it wasn't possible to implement proposed CI disposal scheme on top of tp_del? I'm replying here as best as I understand the situation, which might be incomplete or wrong. From the point of

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7 is here until 2020, please don't call it a waste.

Hi Larry, On 31 May 2015 at 01:20, Larry Hastings la...@hastings.org wrote: p.s. Supporting this patch also helps cut into PyPy's reported performance lead--that is, if they ever upgrade speed.pypy.org from comparing against Python *2.7.2*. Right, we should do this upgrade when 2.7.11 is out.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-versus-CPython question for __mul__ dispatch

Hi Nick, On 16 May 2015 at 10:31, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, that's rather annoying that the PyPy team implemented bug-for-bug compatibility there, and didn't follow up on the operand precedence bug report to say that they had done so. It's sadly not the only place, by far,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 488: elimination of PYO files

Hi Brett, On 6 March 2015 at 19:11, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: I disagree with your premise that .pyo files don't have a noticeable effect on performance. If you don't use asserts a lot then there is no effect, but if you use them heavily or have them perform expensive calculations

Re: [Python-Dev] Tunning binary insertion sort algorithm in Timsort.

Hi Tim, On 10 March 2015 at 18:22, Tim Peters tim.pet...@gmail.com wrote: 1. Merge 2 at a time instead of just 1. That is, first sort the next 2 elements to be merged (1 compare and a possible swap). Then binary search to find where the smaller belongs, and a shorter binary search to find

Re: [Python-Dev] Encoding of PyFrameObject members

Hi, On 6 February 2015 at 08:24, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think it's safe to assume f_code is properly filled by the time you might read it, depending a bit where you find the frame object. Are you sure it's not full of garbage? Yes, before discussing how to do the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 468 (Ordered kwargs)

Hi all, On 24 January 2015 at 11:50, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to point out that we implemented rhettingers idea in PyPy that makes all the dicts ordered by default and we don't have any adverse performance effects (in fact, there is quite significant memory

Re: [Python-Dev] More compact dictionaries with faster iteration

Hi all, On 1 January 2015 at 14:52, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: PS. I wonder who came up with the idea first, PHP or rhettinger and who implemented it first (I'm pretty sure it was used in hippy before it was used in Zend PHP) We'd need to look more in detail to that question,

Re: [Python-Dev] results of id() and weakref.getweakrefs() sometimes break on object resurrection

Hi Stefan, On 26 October 2014 02:50, Stefan Richthofer stefan.richtho...@gmx.de wrote: It appears weakrefs are only cleared if this is done by gc (where no resurrection can happen anyway). If a resurrection-performing-__del__ is just called by ref-count-drop-to-0, weakrefs persist - How do

Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)

Hi, On 18 August 2014 22:30, Oleg Broytman p...@phdru.name wrote: Aha, I see now -- the signing certificate is CAcert, which I've installed manually. I don't suppose anyone is particularly annoyed by this fact? I know for sure two classes of people that will never click Ignore. The first

Re: [Python-Dev] sum(...) limitation

Hi all, The core of the matter is that if we repeatedly __add__ strings from a long list, we get O(n**2) behavior. For one point of view, the reason is that the additions proceed in left-to-right order. Indeed, sum() could proceed in a more balanced tree-like order: from [x0, x1, x2, x3, ...],

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiline with statement line continuation

Hi, On 12 August 2014 01:08, Allen Li cyberdup...@gmail.com wrote: with (open('foo') as foo, open('bar') as bar, open('baz') as baz, open('spam') as spam, open('eggs') as eggs): pass +1. It's exactly the same grammar extension as for

Re: [Python-Dev] os.walk() is going to be *fast* with scandir

Hi Larry, On 10 August 2014 08:11, Larry Hastings la...@hastings.org wrote: A small tip from my bzr days - cd into the directory before scanning it I doubt that's permissible for a library function like os.scandir(). Indeed, chdir() is notably not compatible with multithreading. There would

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 469: Restoring the iterkeys/values/items() methods

Hi Nick, On 21 April 2014 07:39, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Notably, I recommend that hybrid code avoid calling mapping iteration methods directly, and instead rely on builtin functions where possible, and some additional helper functions for cases that would be a simple

Re: [Python-Dev] dict and required hashing

Hi Jim, On 18 April 2014 23:46, Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com wrote: (2) Is the item will be hashed at least once a language guarantee? I think that a reasonable implementation needs to hash at least once all keys that are added to the dictionary. Otherwise we end up, as you said, with a

Re: [Python-Dev] Language Summit notes

Hi, On 11 April 2014 19:55, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, that clarification helps a lot. Does this mean that API-mode CFFI is competing with things like swig (which is not used much these days, as far as I know) and Cython (which is used a lot in the numeric community)?

Re: [Python-Dev] Language Summit notes

Hi, On 10 April 2014 22:12, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: I agree. I'd like to see a clear explanation of what advantages (and disadvantages!) CFFI gives over ctypes, as well as the plan for inclusion and how the inevitable confusion over whether to use ctypes or cffi will be handled.

Re: [Python-Dev] version numbers mismatched in google search results.

Hi, On 25 January 2014 17:26, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: Yep, and the URLs without version never served Python 3 docs as far as I can remember, so I don't know where Google has these titles from. My guess would be that it's the title of the page that we (now) get from the url

Re: [Python-Dev] Negative times behaviour in itertools.repeat for Python maintenance releases (2.7, 3.3 and maybe 3.4)

Hi Vajrasky, On 28 January 2014 03:05, Vajrasky Kok sky@speaklikeaking.com wrote: I get your point. But strangely enough, I can still recover from list(repeat('a', 2**29)). It only slows down my computer. I can ^Z the application then kill it later. But with list(repeat('a', times=-1)),

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: threading.RLock._acquire_restore() now raises a TypeError instead of a

Hi Serhiy, On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com wrote: +if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, (kl):_acquire_restore, count, owner)) Please don't use (...) in PyArg_ParseTuple, it is dangerous (see issue6083 I think that in this case it is fine, because the k and l

Re: [Python-Dev] test_uuid.py on HP NonStop Python-2.7.5 fails (test case: testIssue8621)

Hi, On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 7:14 AM, V S, Nagendra (Nonstop Filesystems Team) on NonStop uuid.py falls throw to random.range() call to generate the random number And indeed, the random module gets identical results in both parent and child after a fork(). This seems to mean that the random

Re: [Python-Dev] unicode Exception messages in py2.7

Hi, FWIW, the pure Python traceback.py module has a slightly different (and saner) behavior: e = Exception(uxx\u1234yy) traceback.print_exception(Exception, e, None) Exception: xx\u1234yy I'd suggest that the behavior of the two should be unified anyway. The traceback module uses

Re: [Python-Dev] unicode Exception messages in py2.7

Hi again, I figured that even using the traceback.py module and getting Exception: \u1234\u1235\u5321 is rather useless if you tried to raise an exception with a message in Thai. I believe this to also be a bug, so I opened https://bugs.pypy.org/issue1634 . According to this thread, however,

Re: [Python-Dev] An interesting exception handling quirk

Hi Nick, On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: recreating the *exact* exception subclass check from Python is actually difficult these days. Can't it be done roughly like that? def __exit__(self, typ, val, tb): try: raise typ, val

Re: [Python-Dev] Make str/bytes hash algorithm pluggable?

Hi Guido, On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:47 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: Sounds a bit like some security researchers drumming up business. If you can run the binary, presumably you can also recover the seed by looking in /proc, right? Or use ctypes or something. This demonstration

Re: [Python-Dev] Revert #12085 fix for __del__ attribute error message

Hi Nick, On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 6:59 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: I'm strongly in favour of Georg's one (Exception in __del__ caught and not propagated). Such a change is highly unlikely to happen, as it would require changing every location where we call

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 447: add type.__locallookup__

Hi Mark, On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Mark Shannon m...@hotpy.org wrote: 5. Other implementations. What do the Jython/IronPython/PyPy developers think? Thanks for asking :-) I'm fine with staying out of language design issues like this one, and I believe it's the general concensus in

Re: [Python-Dev] Add a transformdict to collections

Hi Richard, On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Richard Oudkerk shibt...@gmail.com wrote: I guess another example is creating an identity dict (see http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-ideas/7161/) by doing d = transformdict(id) This is bogus, because only the id will be stored, and the

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

Hi Ethan, Are you suggesting that inspect.get_mro(A) would return (A, object, type)? That seems very wrong to me. If the goal is to fix `inspect.classify_class_attrs()`, then this function only needs a specific fix, along the lines of looking in `get_mro(A) + get_mro(type(A))`. (A more minor

Re: [Python-Dev] hg verify warnings

Hi Tim, On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Tim Peters tim.pet...@gmail.com wrote: Try running hg verify -v - these warnings only appear when verify is run in verbose mode. Indeed. Ignore what I said then about a broken copy of the repository: any copy will show these three warnings, and they

Re: [Python-Dev] hg verify warnings

Hi Tim, On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Tim Peters tim.pet...@gmail.com wrote: warning: copy source of 'Modules/_threadmodule.c' not in parents of 60ad83716733 warning: copy source of 'Objects/bytesobject.c' not in parents of 64bb1d258322 warning: copy source of 'Objects/stringobject.c'

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Use a known unique object for the dummy entry.

Hi, On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: summary: Use a known unique object for the dummy entry. Another issue with this change: the dummy object should be of a dummy subclass of 'object', rather than of 'object' itself. When it is 'object' itself, a

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with import lock deadlock in Import Hooks

Hi Arnaud, On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Arnaud Fontaine arnaud.fonta...@nexedi.com wrote: Thread 1 is trying to import a module 'foo.bar' (where 'foo' is a package containing dynamic modules) handled by Import Hooks I implemented, so import lock is acquired before even running the

Re: [Python-Dev] The Return Of Argument Clinic

Hi Larry, On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Larry Hastings la...@hastings.org wrote: Question 4: Return converters returning success/failure? The option generally used elsewhere is: if we throw an exception, we return some special value; but the special value doesn't necessarily mean by itself

Re: [Python-Dev] stat module in C -- what to do with stat.py?

Hi, On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: process. Personally, I don't see the value in it; other implementations will need to do *something* special to use it anyway. That's not correct. Other implementations can do exactly what CPython 3.3 does, namely

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 443 - Single-dispatch generic functions

Hi, On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Łukasz Langa luk...@langa.pl wrote: Alternative approaches == You could also mention pairtype, used in PyPy: https://bitbucket.org/pypy/pypy/raw/default/rpython/tool/pairtype.py (very short code). It's originally about adding

Re: [Python-Dev] Ordering keyword dicts

Hi all, On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: Note that raymonds proposal would make dicts and ordereddicts almost exactly the same speed. Just checking: in view of Raymond's proposal, is there a good reason against having all dicts be systematically

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 442: Safe object finalization

Hi Antoine, On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Cyclic isolate (CI) A reference cycle in which no object is referenced from outside the cycle *and* whose objects are still in a usable, non-broken state: they can access each other from their

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 442: Safe object finalization

Hi Antoine, On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: How is this done? I don't see a clear way to determine it by looking only at the objects in the CI, given that arbitrary modifications of the object graph may have occurred. The same way a generation is

Re: [Python-Dev] Mysterious Python pyc file corruption problems

Hi all, How about using the shared-or-exclusive advisory file locks (with flock() or fcntl())? It may only work on Posix though. A bientôt, Armin. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Fighting the theoretical randomness of is on immutables

Hi Antoine, On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: For me, a patch that mandated general-purpose containers (list, dict, etc.) respect object identity would be ok. Thanks, that's also my opinion. In PyPy's approach, in trying to emulate CPython vs. trying to

[Python-Dev] Fighting the theoretical randomness of is on immutables

Hi all, In the context PyPy, we've recently seen again the issue of x is y not being well-defined on immutable constants. I've tried to summarize the issues and possible solutions in a mail to pypy-dev [1] and got some answers already. Having been convinced that the core is a language design

Re: [Python-Dev] Difference in RE between 3.2 and 3.3 (or Aaron Swartz memorial)

Hi Matej, On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Matej Cepl mc...@redhat.com wrote: if c is not ' ' and c is not ' ': if c != ' ' and c != ' ': Sorry for the delay in answering, but I just noticed what is wrong in this fix: it compares c with the same single-character ' '

Re: [Python-Dev] Destructors and Closing of File Objects

Hi Jeff, On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Jeff Allen ja...py@farowl.co.uk wrote: In Jython, (...) Thanks Jeff for pointing this out. Jython thus uses a custom mechanism similar to PyPy's, which is also similar to atexit's. It should not be too hard to implement it in CPython 3 as well, if

Re: [Python-Dev] Destructors and Closing of File Objects

Hi Nikolaus, On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Nikolaus Rath nikol...@rath.org wrote: It's indeed very informative, but it doesn't fully address the question because of the _pyio module which certainly can't use any custom C code. Does that mean that when I'm using x = _pyio.BufferedWriter(), I

Re: [Python-Dev] py2.7: dictobject not properly resizing

Hi Antoine, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 17:31:26 -0400 Micha Gorelick mynameisfi...@gmail.com wrote: I was taking a look at dictobject.c and realized that the logic controlling whether a resizedict will occur in

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi Gregory, On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: So would you say that the main use of the API level is provide an alternative for writing C API code to interface to C libraries. IOW,

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi Stefan, On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: You say that the API is fairly stable. What about the implementation? Will users want to install a new version next to the stdlib one in a couple of months, I think that the implementation is fairly stable as

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi Neil, On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Neil Hodgson nyamaton...@me.com wrote: Wouldn't it be better to understand the SAL annotations like _In_opt so that spurious NULLs (for example) produce a good exception from cffi instead of failing inside the system call? Maybe. Feel like

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi Paul, On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: Presumably ffi.NULL isn't needed and I can use 0? (After all, 0 and NULL are equivalent in C, so that's not a correctness issue). Indeed. I created

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi Guido, On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: From a software engineering perspective, 10 years is indistinguishable from infinity, so I don't care what happens 10 years from now -- as long as you don't blame me. :-) I can't resist: around today it is the

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi Paul, On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 February 2013 11:53, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: I think it means you can't use the ABI version and specify the calling convention. It's a reasonable bug report (the calling convention on API

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi Paul, On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: from ctypes import windll MessageBox = windll.User32.MessageBoxW MessageBox(0, Hello, world!, Title, 0) You are right that it's a bit cumbersome in cffi up to and including 0.5, but in the cffi trunk all standard

Re: [Python-Dev] cffi in stdlib

Hi, On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: Do you intend to actually maintain it inside the CPython repository? Once we put it in, yes, of course. Me Armin and Alex. Yes, I confirm. :-) Armin ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] efficient string concatenation (yep, from 2004)

Hi Greg, On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:17 PM, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: If it's that unreliable, why was it ever implemented in the first place? I was young and loved hacks and python-dev felt that it was a good idea at the time

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